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There are absolutely good reasons to keep ones contributions reasonable. I'm sure it's no coincidence that many 'big' campaigns have a 'sweet spot' in the $100-150 range that most people inclined towards such things would likely see as the 'high but not unreasonable' point.

But at the same time, many of those people also benefit from the rare folks willing to throw thousands or more at a campaign. So it feels disingenuous/selfish/counterproductive to proclaim those folks with the disposable income/drive/willingness to contribute larger sums. Victim blaming comes to mind, as a concept if not a direct 1:1 correlation. Some mix of "oh thanks for all your money that helped us cross stretch goals, but you should have known they'd take extra years so no complaining, PS thanks again", even if it's not intended in that fashion (nor would I think that of anyone here).

I also think it's a false dichotomy; one is entirely capable of committing to a higher degree of backing and be critical of the campaign. I've never been a fan of the people who proclaim their backing amount as entitling them to a greater say or special treatment, but clucking at them for their greater amounts 'to a KS, poor fools...' as some obnoxious commenter types can do is a baffling piece of mental gymnastics.

ced1106 wrote:

Sining wrote:
I could do with more accountability in KS myself. In general, I find myself being more turned off from most KS and only going with established names like CMON or Mantic or people I know who have gotten KSes out.

* Use a credit card.
* Know the business history of the creator *and* any parties associated with the project (eg. licensors).
* Nothing wrong with buying only from established names. That's how retail works.
* Avoid backing a company's first KS, tempting as it may be.
* Spend less money on riskier projects.

I dunno about insurance, but eBay does it. But who will pay these insurance fees? If backers won't, will it mean higher KS fees for creators?

We already have consumer protection laws, yet the best protection is a credit card dispute. Any legislation protecting the consumer after funds have been collected will take a long time to get refunds from a party which may have no funds.

Credit card companies over here are absolute ----. They only cover you for 30 days and they're really not very helpful when it comes to disputing charges. I've had one of my disputes pulled just because I missed a phone call while I was overseas and the bank said "Oh, we tried to call you but there was no response so we cancelled the dispute". I actually prefer paypal over CC for buying online.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I don't think the amount a person backs should be the issue. People shouldn't just be expected to take a KS loss or default and if KS keeps acting like they're expected, that's just going to drive people from KS eventually

 Talizvar wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Are there tanks and infantry in the game at all 'officially'?

During the KS they said they didn't have the rights to include tanks, APCs, fighters etc. Only 'mecha'.
Which is why they can't have unmasked characters either.
Who the @#$% negociated that deal...

The really painful question: is it Palladium Books that fluffed the terms or Harmony Gold that has garbage terms in their copyright?
We may never know.

We may never know, that stuff is usually buried in contracts and NDAs.

MY UNDERSTANDING goes something like this:

After years of lawsuits, HG has the rights to translate and show Macross in English markets but not to create derived works (which is why Rick Hunter et al have been absent from recent sequels). Same for Southern Cross. Which is why this came could only include things shown in the original cartoon and nothing shown in the movie nor anything they invented.

HG does have the right to create derived works from Mospeada/New Generation.

Palladium has the rights to create games (maybe just RPGs) based on HG's cartoons and 'playing pieces' for the games. One reason this game had to be 'Robotech RPG Tactics' is other companies have the rights to make models and toys. these are technically playing pieces for a game.

The old Robotech RPG had rules for all the normal vehicles glimpsed in the cartoon, APCs, gunships etc.

But for some reason RRT design team said they cannot include them. They said it several times to shoot down requests for the Cats Eye Recon, and other mundane vehicles.

They later changed the concept art for some of the characters not to show faces, only fully armored figures, for the same reason.

How they ended up with such a @#$%ed up deal is beyond me. Maybe they were just blowing smoke and they didn't want to. But that's what I hear.

I thought HG did own SC rights according to the main creators wife. Oh well no biggie.

I attribute it to PB/nd being lazy or Kevin is just a bad business negotiator.

So, all I can say is "dice bag".

I bet being able to produce apparel and trinkets is the first thing that goes in a contract with them.
I think all this "work" they are doing is toward their open house: they are not too bad for me to get to but charging more for admission than Comicon makes me laugh.
I suspect we will not hear any more empty threats of progress until the boys are given a day off after the openhouse being tired and all.

The forum on Robotech Tactics RPG is rather sad... sounds like I got more games in than all of them:
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=147920&p=2853377#p2853377
The multiple "not finding a game in my area" is troubling or the "I have not painted any of my models".

Warning, a bit of a rant here: What do they mean that there may not be enough room for a table for the game??!!
A new product bringing in the most revenue they had EVER seen and it is basically being stuffed in a back corner??
<edit, edit> Not RPG = "out of comfort zone" = the uncomfortable offspring of the company.They really confuse me.
<edit> Kickstarter page has devolved into discussions of Star Wars and Disney and licensing... I am sure it ties in there somewhere... Disney = Harmony Gold? Nah...

I wonder how they differentiate "fan-boy" from "griefer" in these events... I may attend if not for giving them money... but it may be worth it for the difficult questions posed to the rainbows and unicorns glee club.

Can applying a wedgie force a definite answer to Wave 2 status without receiving undue force by police after?

Does anyone have a nice mix guide to how to make the standard "Brownie" colors using Army Painter colors?

I'm no great shakes with a brush, so any help is appreciated.

 Talizvar wrote:

Warning, a bit of a rant here: What do they mean that there may not be enough room for a table for the game??!!
A new product bringing in the most revenue they had EVER seen and it is basically being stuffed in a back corner???

You're an optimist! According to your link, that is the best case scenario. You may be playing on the back of a pickup truck (weather permitting). Apparently at Palladium, fans spending $1.4+ million on a project means that you're mentioned after clothing/tabletop accessories and that you may be allowed to play your two year delayed game in the parking lot at the premium exclusive event for the company. They have to make sure they've got enough room after all for those mega RPG sessions with over a dozen players minimum that Kevin runs where he doesn't bother using his own rules. Priorities!!!!

 Talizvar wrote:
Warning, a bit of a rant here: What do they mean that there may not be enough room for a table for the game??!!
A new product bringing in the most revenue they had EVER seen and it is basically being stuffed in a back corner??

I wonder how they differentiate "fan-boy" from "griefer" in these events... I may attend if not for giving them money... but it may be worth it for the difficult questions posed to the rainbows and unicorns glee club.

PB has always been a RPG company, so them returning to form isn't a surprise.

I just want to know what's up with Wave 2.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
PB has always been a RPG company, so them returning to form isn't a surprise.

Would I be out of line to say that face to face RPG's are about 1/20th what they were back in the day?
The degree of focus on one element of hobby for a business is certainly enforcing the "get your miniatures and run" attitude.
I can barely make myself commit to the official rules as things stand.

I just want to know what's up with Wave 2.

I would sincerely like to apply a wedgie to key people in your name.

I could reply on their behalf:
"We have so many cool things on the go that you will soon see when various details are wrapped up for Wave 2.
We are slaving away to ensure the mouth watering goodness is kept and are checking things are up to our standard.
We have had to wear many hats to ensure everything gets done with room for some surprises you will be pleased with but we cannot tell...

We have newly released the <drum roll> command counter bag!!!! It does look similar to the dice bag but it is red!
I am sure the many Robotech role players will be pleased.

We are looking forward to further exciting pod vs. pod combat!
For fun on Saturday at the open house Timmy from Texas has agreed to host a game of Robotech RPG Tactics on his monster truck!
It IS a taller than normal truck and I am sure it will be a blast!
It can be found at the far end of the parking lot as space allows.

Kevin has found he has an allergy to the adhesive fumes from the models so we request those who were assembling these models in the last month to not approach him.
He DOES appreciate your great work and looks forward to seeing them in the forums!

We hope you are as stoked as we are of all the RPG goodness so go on out there and buy some!"

Palladium can feel free to contact me to prepare their weekly reports.

I think *Palladium* RPGs and other second-tier RPGs are <1/20 of what they were during the RPG heyday. D&D / Pathfinder seems to be doing OK though. Too bad neither of those keep the lights on at Palladium...

If you're handing out well-deserved wedgies, nut slaps and noogies on my behalf, then I approve this message.

 Talizvar wrote:
Kickstarter page has devolved into discussions of Star Wars and Disney and licensing... I am sure it ties in there somewhere... Disney = Harmony Gold? Nah...

There's some minor tie in potential for discussions about working with larger partner/owner corporations, but at the end of the day I think it's just that there's more to talk about with other random stuff with those nerds than RRT. After another fun bout of Lola and Rick (and others, myself included) having it out again, the realization that there's nothing good to talk about for RRT settled so we found better/other things to discuss.

The PB forums remain a ghost town, as do the BGG forums for the game. Honestly, the only one with any real chatter that I've seen is here (mostly mockery) and Mike's FB group (mostly supportive). There's one fan forum that might have some participation, but after the first one died an ignoble death, I can't be bothered to even check it out.

Mikes facebook group has dropped off in activity in a big way as well.

Still waiting for even a peep about wave 2 and really I just want to know when I will get the rest of what is owed to me.

 Swabby wrote:
Mikes facebook group has dropped off in activity in a big way as well.

Still waiting for even a peep about wave 2 and really I just want to know when I will get the rest of what is owed to me.

I suspect a few or all of these.

1. Painting Lag draggin on people. I personally sent almost all my Zen to a painter in trade for some minis since I don't have time. Work, Family and a Master's...harder than I thought.
2. A lot of people are still trying to assemble.
3. I know that we are working on some fixes in the background that not everyone is aware of like to Blast. Those being relayed once fix may help.
4. Star Wars Armada just came out so personally I've put some attention on there.
5. I have less time as it is these last few weeks to do much at all, let alone RRT.
6. More lag as people are working on assembling.
7. Being a new game people seem to still be wanting to find people to play with locally. I have only one, and another willing, but like I mentioned, no Zen minis at present.

So yeah, right now there is a bit of a lag. We shall see as time progresses if this changes or not. Plus who knows what this grand announcement will be. Could be anything from Wave 2 finally all approved and in Chinese hands (not likely) to a new dice bag or some Malcontent dice (which would not surprise me) , to some new material (advanced rules or scenarios) that I've heard about, to what someone had for lunch. I have no idea.

 Forar wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Kickstarter page has devolved into discussions of Star Wars and Disney and licensing... I am sure it ties in there somewhere... Disney = Harmony Gold? Nah...

There's some minor tie in potential for discussions about working with larger partner/owner corporations, but at the end of the day I think it's just that there's more to talk about with other random stuff with those nerds than RRT.

Well, that and people still give a damn about Star Wars?

Jeez, imagine the outcry if after all the build up the big news is just something trivial like more dice bags.

It'll be a whimper. I think most folks stopped caring when wave 1 went out for the most part and even when they did care about Palladium's actions 3/4 of folks voted to support their shenanigans.

I wonder what the reaction would be if they announced a line of underwear...

Joyboozer wrote:
Jeez, imagine the outcry if after all the build up the big news is just something trivial like more dice bags.

Why? While KevCo are still in the nature of overpromoting the hell out of everything as "best thing ever", after the last two years of results, I doubt there are more than a handful of people that expect it'll be anything even close to the hype. While I share an affinity with people who felt they got bamboozled/bait-and-switched during the campaign, due to a less than complete knowledge of Palladium's reputation at that time, I think anyone outraged because they expected more than a dice bag, just hasn't been paying attention.

That's not to say people shouldn't be upest BY the dice bags, IF that's what it is. Because it'd just be another case of PB prioritizing mostly meaningless crap over stuff that the backer paid for almost two years ago (18 months if they didn't go big until the Pledge Manager). But not because they expected "more" from Palladium.

At this stage, I can't think of anything that would make sense to be anything BUT a mild disappointment at this stage. Because only Wave 2 wouldn't, and it'd not make any sense that they're much further along than they've shown, because well, they should have shown it. But as someone reminded me again today, "Then again, this is Palladium". Them screwing up the handling of even good news wouldn't shock me.

I'm sure it would get a rise out of some superfans on the megaversal forums. *ba-dum-dum-ching!* Thank you! Thank you!

 warboss wrote:
I'm sure it would get a rise out of some superfans on the megaversal forums. *ba-dum-dum-ching!* Thank you! Thank you!

There'd be so many jokes by non-fans too, regarding proximity/contents of anatomy and bodily excretions, that I'm kind of hoping they do.

"Palladium Underwear. From the people who haven't changed anything in thirty years.".

I am disappointed. Not one of you did anything involving "Glitter Boy(tm)".

Morgan Vening wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I'm sure it would get a rise out of some superfans on the megaversal forums. *ba-dum-dum-ching!* Thank you! Thank you!

There'd be so many jokes by non-fans too, regarding proximity/contents of anatomy and bodily excretions, that I'm kind of hoping they do.

"Palladium Underwear. From the people who haven't changed anything in thirty years.".

"Guaranteed as fresh as our RPGs!" We should probably stop though as it is off topic.

Jeez, you guys are so NEGATIVE!

Obviously PB haven't been able to update anything recently due to the fact that everything RRT related is just so mouth-watering, that they keep getting their computers wet and blowing them.

This also accounts for the need to get wave 1 to retailers BEFORE all backers - replacing computers that regularly is expensive!

[/sarcasm]

Well, at this point I don't have much faith in when the next Update will hit, but their last Newsletter was on the 10th, so maybe this will be when they actually, really, truly, maybe, kinda, sorta hint at the big news for RRT/Wave 2.

I mean, I'm definitely cynical enough about things that that's very much sarcasm, but as I've said since I poked fun at their ongoing struggles with quality communication, it's also a challenge: do better.

 Forar wrote:
Well, at this point I don't have much faith in when the next Update will hit, but their last Newsletter was on the 10th, so maybe this will be when they actually, really, truly, maybe, kinda, sorta hint at the big news for RRT/Wave 2.

If they don't put one out a KS Update this weekend, you can probably write off the following weekend as well (PenguiCon, April 24th), and given form, the week after, May 1st (their ability to get back into regular mode after a convention is fairly apparent). Don't know how much prep-work they have for the Open House (May 15th, two weeks on from that), but if it's more than the week of, that'll put the next 'significant' KS Update at May 22nd-ish, assuming there's not a Con-Crud wasted week following the OH. But what's 12 weeks, amongst friends?

I mean, I'm definitely cynical enough about things that that's very much sarcasm, but as I've said since I poked fun at their ongoing struggles with quality communication, it's also a challenge: do better.

But they will. They promised a backer at Adepticon. Number of KS Updates since Adepticon? Zero.

It's sad that if they actually do an acceptable bare minimum, they'll be praised (in some circles) for it. The bar has been set so low, that a barely passing grade will be seen as a monumental achievement. And I think they need to realize, it's not enough to do one fantastic Update. They need to have some consistency. And in two years of following this, they haven't showed they even know how to start.

The last PBWU includes the line "We have wanted to write and post a rather expansive update to all our Robotech® supporters for a number of weeks now. We plan to do so next week.". Seriously, it's like they set themselves up to fail. Even if they do manage to do so in the next day or two, it's still a failure because it should have been up 'a number of weeks' ago. Their consistent ability to mismanage deadlines, and tell us how awesome things are going to be, rather than show us, is almost like they're trolling us, at this point. Maybe, at some point, they'll let the rest of the people in on the joke.

I know I laugh at them a lot. Probably not for the reasons they want, though.

On a side note, update on the friend trying to sell his pledge at cost. Three weeks, only one interested party, who only wants to split off a single Destroid Box. So that's going well.

I tend to go easy on anyone where I figure I would have trouble doing their job, PB deserves any "constructive criticism" it gets.
To set yourself up for an update in a week and only have to write a few paragraphs usually is setting the bar rather low.
This is a company that depends on publishing works of text and pictures as product.
Do we really need to lock horns with a white knight that missing an update is rather stupid if not pitiful?
When they do finally have something interesting to announce, their target audience would have moved-on and would not care.

They have moved on as a company of re-releases and trinkets, I had hoped they would see a new avenue of revenue for their company and it appears it is not of interest.

I want my Wave 2 models and I am 98% ( ) sure I will not be looking back.
I have a suspicion I will be playing more Battletech than this game despite my best efforts.

Bah, much negativity again.
I have my models keeping me a bit busy, getting some games in but only by providing all the models to play.

There really is not much else to say, how many more rounds of conventions can they go to calling the game "new" until they actually have to produce something new?

Now now. Let's be fair to the incompetent jackasses - they didn't say they'd post an update next week. They said they planned to.

See? Enough weasel words and you can excuse anything!

 Easy E wrote:
Does anyone have a nice mix guide to how to make the standard "Brownie" colors using Army Painter colors?

I'm no great shakes with a brush, so any help is appreciated.

Just whip out your handy-dandy rule book and look up the hex code! It will tell you the precise color you need for your brownies.

No, I don't know which of the four codes beside the line drawing are the one you want.

Useless crap...

Dollars to donuts, those are Japanese standard Tamiya paint codes. The same ones which have been used for decades.



https://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=72#.VTHvXvBXaqg

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/823360

I finished layout of the color guide for the rulebook... only to then have it pointed out by Ninja Chris that we could improve it by listing hex color codes for each paint scheme.

Which was a point of contention when it was announced, because paint and colour on computers don't line up nicely at all. It was in fact questioned on that very update comment section as to how one would convert from Hex to various paint brands.

And I'm pretty sure we had a big laugh about it here as well.