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Random Facebook guy says random crap.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Not that I necessarily disbelieve it, after all, it's about the dumbest thing they could possibly do. The first thing people said when they saw the scale was "Alphas will be dinky, Cyclones will be practically pinheads". Changing it half way through would be just plain idiotic. But, this is PB we're talking about.

However, when some dipwad continually says crap like "Blah blah blah it might be this thing I'm guessing, but only PB knows!" I can't see how his opinion is worth a damned thing.

Thanks for the link and info for the non-facers out here.

I'm not sure how that first one is surprising. Plenty of folks (including myself) have said even during the KS that the current scale is not viable for the other eras and they'd have to bump it up to not have epic 40,000 sized figures. I wouldn't have any issues with that even if I planned to buy more figs (which I don't except for one zent infantry pack).

New rules? Again, not surprising. I'd expect them to eventually come up with some more detailed rules to replace the bare bones stupid skirmish option they currently have. My guess would be something much closer to the RPG rules and even possibly palladium's frankenstein d4/d6/d8/d10/d20/d100 system. My gut tells me that Ninja Division would be much more hands off and in the background assuming they're not gone completely for post wave 2 products so Palladium would feel free to "innovate" by changing to their clunky middle aged ruleset.

3 D printing expansions? Not for a few more years. I printed out a single custom fig that I uploaded using the same "ultra fine detail" level that shapeways has and that single fig that was the same size and of lower detail than a 2nd edition snap fit starter set marine and cost me around $25 including shipping with ZERO markup since I was printing one copy out for myself and not selling it. That isn't viable for expansions unless your goal is to have GW style plastic character clamshell pricing. There obviously could be a bulk discount but I still don't see it at the current pricing and detail. That said.. it is Palladium so stupid is as stupid does and I'm not ruling it out.

A VF-1 battroid is supposed to stand 12+m tall.

An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
A VF-1 battroid is supposed to stand 12+m tall.

An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.

Now do the math for the invid where plenty of the models would be less than half the size of the alpha (10-18ft)... and then the cyclones (the single most numerous human mecha in that series) that are 1/5 the size of that alpha. Even the Southern Cross hovertank is IIRC around 22ft and the Logan is significantly smaller than that.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
So the rumor is they might change the scale for the next two eras according to FB.

https://www.facebook.com/RRPGT?fref=nf

Yeah, I'm not so sure that's reliable. Could be, but it's making a LOT of assumptions and isn't sourced in any way. Put it this way, if it were couched negatively, I'd have assumed it was a Rick post.

And that's one of the issues I have with it. It's posted with a positive air, but all three things posited, have the potential to have significant backlash from the community, especially the KS Backers.

1) Changing Scale - Given that some backers, including one of the "big spenders", made a huge deal during the campaign about wanting the scale to remain consistent (the big spender actually retracting almost his entire pledge at one point over it), any significant scale change is going to not go over well.

2) Changing Rules Set - Depending on how this is done, it could either have a neutral or negative effect for some people. If it only applies to the later generations, and doesn't replace the current rules set, that's one thing. If it is a planned edition change this soon, and current backers are required to pony up the dough, it's completely another.

3) Changing Production Method - 3D printing on demand may be the way of the 'future', but it's got a while yet before it's both cheap enough and good enough to be a viable option. And then there's all the complications on top of that. Specifically, countries and areas that don't have access to 3DPOD services. Games stores having no interest in sponsoring/supporting games they can't profit from. And while it might not be seen as a bad thing by PB, but players not being able to get the items discounted. Most online retailers offer 20-30% off MSRP. That might cut into PB's perceived profit margins, but on the market saturation perspective, even if they retain enough of those discount players to keep cashflow similar, if there's less people playing the game, then there is more difficulty getting the critical mass needed to self-sustain. The primary reason GW is still the 900lb gorilla is that you can go to almost any area and find SOMEONE who plays. It's a huge selling point for getting people involved.

It doesn't help that the author of the post seems incredibly optimistic and naive. The author claims "One thing is for sure, Palladium is 110% committed to Robotech RPG Tactics.", when that's just demonstrably false. And claims that these reasons MIGHT potentially be the reasons why there's been a hold up on Wave 2. Except only speculation #3 has anything to do with Wave 2, and even that is not a realistic aspiration for the next year. And if Wave 2 is postponed much past this time next year, there are bigger problems.

That's not to say I don't think PB might be considering any and all of the above. The first two wouldn't be an issue if PB thought ahead, but they made commitments, and at some point, breaking commitments will irk even the most staunch supporter. The latter looks like the kind of "Jump in head first without understanding or thinking it through properly" mentality that lead to using the N-Gage as their platform for videogames.

But given it's source is essentially "an unnamed but unofficial person on the internet told me", it's hard to take it at face value.

Is the "big spender" you're referring to that bad syntax/eric smith guy? If so, he retracted it because people didn't like his fan conversions of stuff and he took his ball (and stretch goal home) to pout overnight before coming back AFTER changing his name (but not realizing that his old comments were still linked there).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Morgan Vening wrote:


2) Changing Rules Set - Depending on how this is done, it could either have a neutral or negative effect for some people. If it only applies to the later generations, and doesn't replace the current rules set, that's one thing. If it is a planned edition change this soon, and current backers are required to pony up the dough, it's completely another.

As long as it is just an option and not a change in the standard rules, I don't see an issue. If they were to change the core rules for the other eras then that would be a collossally stupid move. I'm sure plenty of folks want to play across eras and that would screw them over even if they eventually came out with a clunky conversion guide.

It doesn't help that the author of the post seems incredibly optimistic and naive. The author claims "One thing is for sure, Palladium is 110% committed to Robotech RPG Tactics.", when that's just demonstrably false. And claims that these reasons MIGHT potentially be the reasons why there's been a hold up on Wave 2.

110%???!? Holy gak.. that's like 12% better than what we started Macross with! If true, that means that we can expect those things only a year and a half after they're advertised/supposed to come out. WIN!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
A VF-1 battroid is supposed to stand 12+m tall.

An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.

14.2m and 10.25 according to the Robotech Wiki. Tomahawk is 12.7m. Spartan is 11.3m.

No size for the Cyclones but I think we can safely say 2.0m - 2.5m

So, your Cyclones would be 1/6th the height of the current tiny-ass models.

 warboss wrote:
Is the "big spender" you're referring to that bad syntax/eric smith guy? If so, he retracted it because people didn't like his fan conversions of stuff and he took his ball (and stretch goal home) to pout overnight before coming back AFTER changing his name (but not realizing that his old comments were still linked there).

I stand corrected. I know he threatened to do so at least twice because of potential scale changes. I must have conflated the two issues.

 warboss wrote:
As long as it is just an option and not a change in the standard rules, I don't see an issue. If they were to change the core rules for the other eras then that would be a collossally stupid move. I'm sure plenty of folks want to play across eras and that would screw them over even if they eventually came out with a clunky conversion guide.

Heh. Collosally stupid move. Or, as we've come to know them, standard operating procedures.

The main issue I have with this, besides the compatibility issue you raise, and the obsolescence issue I mentioned, is that if this is holding up Wave 2 (one of the primary premises of the original FB post is that these three things are potentially a holdup of Wave 2), then it's Palladium being Palladium, and not being able to focus. Sure, do this stuff. AFTER you've got all the stuff you've already promised, out of your hands. Once manufacturing starts, you can move on to other stuff.

Normally, I'm OK with multitasking, and working on things a couple of stages ahead. But PB have proven that they're incapable of working like that, and with the project already almost 18 months late, and with no end in sight, finishing what's on their plate before getting seconds, isn't an unreasonable stance to take.

I was going to say it's not an unreasonable expectation, but my expectations of what PB consider reasonable has taken a hit over the last two years. While they still might get a "Really? That's fethed up!" out of me, I don't think they could do anything to shock me anymore. Selling some Wave 2 items at GenCon? Heck, I expected that (though a percieved lack of progress makes me doubt they could, even if they wanted to). Stating that they were out of money to continue, and that because everything listed in the Battlecry beyond what is already supplied is "free", only Add-Ons would be refunded? Would not be shocked. The bar has been set so low on expectations, it's recessed into the floor. And yet someone at PB will invariably trip over it.

 warboss wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
A VF-1 battroid is supposed to stand 12+m tall.

An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.

Now do the math for the invid where plenty of the models would be less than half the size of the alpha (10-18ft)... and then the cyclones (the single most numerous human mecha in that series) that are 1/5 the size of that alpha. Even the Southern Cross hovertank is IIRC around 22ft and the Logan is significantly smaller than that.

Some mild fudging of scale would be acceptable. A full scale change would not. Infantry being extremely small is fine by me, as that is how my Battletech infantry are. Also note, the scale is fairly inconsistent in the series, and in some scenes things appear larger than in others.

Making an Alpha Fighter chest height to a VF-1 and the Hover tanks waist height to a VF-1 would be fine in my eyes, YMMV, but it is not that far off. Invid Scouts and such are almost infantry scale so maybe up them to be a little bigger than the infantry.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
A VF-1 battroid is supposed to stand 12+m tall.

An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.

Now do the math for the invid where plenty of the models would be less than half the size of the alpha (10-18ft)... and then the cyclones (the single most numerous human mecha in that series) that are 1/5 the size of that alpha. Even the Southern Cross hovertank is IIRC around 22ft and the Logan is significantly smaller than that.

Some mild fudging of scale would be acceptable. A full scale change would not. Infantry being extremely small is fine by me, as that is how my Battletech infantry are. Also note, the scale is fairly inconsistent in the series, and in some scenes things appear larger than in others.

Making an Alpha Fighter chest height to a VF-1 and the Hover tanks waist height to a VF-1 would be fine in my eyes, YMMV, but it is not that far off. Invid Scouts and such are almost infantry scale so maybe up them to be a little bigger than the infantry.

Nope. Remember that this is Harmony Gold we're dealing with. Supposedly one that cares SO MUCH about authenticity that is the reason we have such ridiculous "miniatures".

Who is the author of the Facebook crap? If reading it wasn't enough, Thomas roache liking it just confirms its drivel.

I wouldn't purchase models in a different scale, that would actually be the end of me being a customer. I wouldn't have backed it to begin with if they hadn't indicated they were going to remain consistent across all eras.

 totalfailure wrote:

 n815e wrote:

 totalfailure wrote:
Hopefully someone at GHQ has some sense, and notices that this game is dead, dead, dead, and doesn't waste the time making molds and masters for stuff a tiny fraction of the customer base might even consider. Most people are just hoping they get their crap at some point now, and kiss off Palladium ASAP.

GHQ has been asking for months for customers who buy their models to use for Robotech to let them know so that they are able to measure interest. Obviously, they are selling enough models in connection with Robotech to believe that they can make more money from it.

I'm sure it will be a big winner for them Meanwhile, isn't it time for another session with your man-god Kevin? Ruler of the known universe, purveyor of RPGs that were outdated 30 years ago?

Oh, my. You posted your uninformed opinion; I corrected you with a fact.
And for that you take a limp swipe at me... totalfailure, indeed.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
A VF-1 battroid is supposed to stand 12+m tall.

An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.

Now do the math for the invid where plenty of the models would be less than half the size of the alpha (10-18ft)... and then the cyclones (the single most numerous human mecha in that series) that are 1/5 the size of that alpha. Even the Southern Cross hovertank is IIRC around 22ft and the Logan is significantly smaller than that.

Some mild fudging of scale would be acceptable. A full scale change would not. Infantry being extremely small is fine by me, as that is how my Battletech infantry are. Also note, the scale is fairly inconsistent in the series, and in some scenes things appear larger than in others.

Making an Alpha Fighter chest height to a VF-1 and the Hover tanks waist height to a VF-1 would be fine in my eyes, YMMV, but it is not that far off. Invid Scouts and such are almost infantry scale so maybe up them to be a little bigger than the infantry.

Assuming I was interested in Genesis Climber MOSPEADA and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, as opposed to Macross Plus, I'd want things to be in-scale within series, and near-scale across series.

I would buy in-scale YF-21 Omega One / VF-22 Sturmvogel II in a heart beat. Even if they had 20% more parts than the current VF-1s.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Assuming I was interested in Genesis Climber MOSPEADA and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, as opposed to Macross Plus, I'd want things to be in-scale within series, and near-scale across series.

I would buy in-scale YF-21 Omega One / VF-22 Sturmvogel II in a heart beat. Even if they had 20% more parts than the current VF-1s.

This. Scale changes not withstanding, i don't care a whit about either Southern Cross or Mospeada. I might buy a good Mospeada bike mini because they look cool, but there are already oodles of options for that, and as for the rest? Not in the market.

Anything else in this scale for stuff from the Macross universe, though? I might swallow it down even if it still was done by Palladium. But as that's impossible, I'm not very concerned about it

 n815e wrote:
I wouldn't purchase models in a different scale, that would actually be the end of me being a customer. I wouldn't have backed it to begin with if they hadn't indicated they were going to remain consistent across all eras.

 totalfailure wrote:

 n815e wrote:

 totalfailure wrote:
Hopefully someone at GHQ has some sense, and notices that this game is dead, dead, dead, and doesn't waste the time making molds and masters for stuff a tiny fraction of the customer base might even consider. Most people are just hoping they get their crap at some point now, and kiss off Palladium ASAP.

GHQ has been asking for months for customers who buy their models to use for Robotech to let them know so that they are able to measure interest. Obviously, they are selling enough models in connection with Robotech to believe that they can make more money from it.

I'm sure it will be a big winner for them Meanwhile, isn't it time for another session with your man-god Kevin? Ruler of the known universe, purveyor of RPGs that were outdated 30 years ago?

Oh, my. You posted your uninformed opinion; I corrected you with a fact.
And for that you take a limp swipe at me... totalfailure, indeed.

OH NOES! The official DakkaDakka Palladium juice licker has 'facted' me! I will go cry now....meanwhile, you can get back to encouraging GHQ to climb into the same grave as Tactics by making models no one is crying out for for a dead game. The local game store has a place for them all set, right next to the dusty copy of Tactics that's been there for 6 months. How will Palladium ever replace it, should it sell? After all, there where only pallets of unsold product 8' high sitting around at their open house.....

Ok guys, so a few things here....that post, at least to me, is mostly GAK. Last I spoke to PB they were unsure of what to do with scale. I spoke to them about multiple scales to look at both sides and Kevin seemed to like the idea. Things may have changed but last I know....scale will be the same AND in each box they will see about another slightly larger scale. So you buy cyclones and get a bunch in 6mm and some more in 15mm or something like that. Again, PB has nothing cemented and likely won't for a while to come. They move at the speed of molasses in winter. That's something we can all agree on.

Rules, there are ZERO plans on redoing the base rules. Some FAQ and also some Advanced Rules are in the works. Carmen has done some up. I have no idea what they contain. I've been asking for them to share them with a group of playtesters and MA's.

GHQ, well, they know how backers and PB feel and how things have gone. I have spoken to them a few times, in the last few months I have spoken to them more than PB actually. The whole sale a while back with 15% off was something I suggested to them to gauge interest. It was not super but it was not insignificant either, so there IS interest. Enough to warrant a continuation of things and looking into making more minis. GHQ prefers metal for a variety of reasons.

Now the thought was to use the lager scale minis to fill out a better and more detailed Skirmish style game. Knowing the license and limitations that will mean bringing the game closer the to RPG rules (Gasp!), that being the case we might just have to make our own. Honestly I enjoy the RRT rules. I've been pushing on a few things with the FAQ so if you had anything come up like transforming to fighter mode to get out of melee or Blast missile fixes they are in the works and I will pass along any others that crop up.

Personally, a lot of my stuff, almost all the Zentraedi, is with someone else to paint up. I traded one of my overzealous purchases ( I bought 3 BC's) to someone to paint the other 2. So I'm without Zen to play for a few months and also Armada Wave 1 is out so I'm loving that.

Hope this helps you all some. Just ask and I'll share what I can. I still check in here periodically.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a side note, personally I'd rather have 8-10mm cyclones. After doing some really tiny paper standees, I'd rather have them a bit larger. Even the Battletech Power Armor that I have converted for use a Cyclones are more like 8-10mm and they have some decent detail compared to the 40K epic stuff that I have.

 totalfailure wrote:

OH NOES! The official DakkaDakka Palladium juice licker has 'facted' me! I will go cry now....meanwhile, you can get back to encouraging GHQ to climb into the same grave as Tactics by making models no one is crying out for for a dead game. The local game store has a place for them all set, right next to the dusty copy of Tactics that's been there for 6 months. How will Palladium ever replace it, should it sell? After all, there where only pallets of unsold product 8' high sitting around at their open house.....

You aren't very good at engaging people intelligently, are you?
The more you post, the sillier you look.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

o you buy cyclones and get a bunch in 6mm and some more in 15mm or something like that.

That's not such a great idea, because it forces people to pay for something they might not want.

 n815e wrote:

o you buy cyclones and get a bunch in 6mm and some more in 15mm or something like that.

That's not such a great idea, because it forces people to pay for something they might not want.

Well, I understand, but

1. Cyclones and Invid for the most part are pretty small.
2. This will allow one mold to kill 2 things.
3. Larger mecha may very well come in both sizes and purchased separately.
4. It's way to early either way to be worried about scale when we still have a while till we see wave 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least that is how I see it. If Wave 2 was going to be this year it might be something to look into but I doubt it.

True enough.

I just wish they would focus on doing what they need to do instead of thinking about ways to screw up the next batch.

As I've written elsewhere, having this stuff out in the world (possible scale change, rules change, media change) is detrimental. The game has been out for six months, they haven't even gotten the second wave to backers or in stores and they are already discussing with people major changes.
That doesn't give anyone confidence and considering the hurdles they keep putting up for themselves they should work on stabilizing the game rather than sending out the message that "get into this now and we're gonna screw you over later on."
Kevin is just clueless and bumbling and he is ruining the best, most profitable product he has released.

"We want to produce high quality miniatures." Eric Smith walks by and hands him some Shapeways crap. "Why do we need to go to professional designers and production companies when we can just have this 3D junk made instead? I'm sure people will love it."

PB moves slow enough that I doubt this is anywhere on their radar other than casual conversation. A while back I asked specifically because this had become a big deal on the FB page.

A lot of this so called "info" is totally news to me so I really doubt it's validity.

I think it is more of an outreach of a fan that got a bit overzealous in trying to whip up people in a positive way. While it was meant well it's completely unsubstantiated.

Kevin is not much hands on when it come to RRT. Every time I've spoken to them on it and that we've had a conference call on it he was not present. That right there tells me he is not dogging RRT like he is known to with the RPG stuff and that gives me some hope, albeit a small light.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've NEVER heard from anyone until today about PB 3D printing anything with RRT.....it's nonsensical.

Thanks for your perspective, Mike.

 Albertorius wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Assuming I was interested in Genesis Climber MOSPEADA and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, as opposed to Macross Plus, I'd want things to be in-scale within series, and near-scale across series.

I would buy in-scale YF-21 Omega One / VF-22 Sturmvogel II in a heart beat. Even if they had 20% more parts than the current VF-1s.

This. Scale changes not withstanding, i don't care a whit about either Southern Cross or Mospeada. I might buy a good Mospeada bike mini because they look cool, but there are already oodles of options for that, and as for the rest? Not in the market.

Anything else in this scale for stuff from the Macross universe, though? I might swallow it down even if it still was done by Palladium. But as that's impossible, I'm not very concerned about it

Exactly.

Though it would be fun to see what would happen if PB were to launch a KS for Mospeada or Southern Cross. I might even toss a buck in the hat to comment.

But really, I'm far more interested in Macross-related stuff. Not non-Macross Robotech, definitely not before Wave 2 gets squared away.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Kevin is not much hands on when it come to RRT. Every time I've spoken to them on it and that we've had a conference call on it he was not present. That right there tells me he is not dogging RRT like he is known to with the RPG stuff and that gives me some hope, albeit a small light.

I worked for a guy not too different from Kevin as far as I can tell.
Him not being there is not a good sign.
It allows him to claim no knowledge of decisions made.
It then allows him to change whatever he wants because no-one "kept him informed".
How do you think he gets away with those famous last minute re-writes?
If he is there for every stage of it, it would be harder to justify and run the risk of appearing to contradict himself.
Either that or he feels sufficiently out of his depth he is avoiding the meetings to save face.

So even though PB didn't want to undermine the backers this small nugget of info is out.


1. Wave 2 is expected due in December 2015, possibly sept/october but not likely...
They really are trying to get it out there.

2. Max and Miriyia gencon minis are likely to be re-released to KS backers with additional exclusive products (no specifics yet)

3. The "Advanced" rulebook is on its way. It is currently going through some editing and tweaking.
Some of the rules in question (blast markers shooting at the ground) are the result of certain people making changes in the final rules that were not caught before printing.
(Some things were also blamed on certain people, such as a lack of unit points and content in the main rulebook, etc)

I talked to Carmen personally at the Open House and about the rulebook, etc. He was unhappy with the final result and had some choice words for some people that I can't name. Anyways...if you look at the rules and layout from a board game perspective it makes more sense, most board games use lots of cards, etc. (Looking at you Fantasy Flight Games).

However, from a war game perspective it doesn't make any sense at all. They know this and they are seeking to rectify the situation if at all possible.""


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's from here.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=148289

 Cypher-xv wrote:
So even though PB didn't want to undermine the backers this small nugget of info is out.

I take that with the same BelAZ of salt as I did the previous report.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
1. Wave 2 is expected due in December 2015, possibly sept/october but not likely...
They really are trying to get it out there.

I don't doubt that they think that (on either count). I've just seen nothing to suggest the first is possible, or that we shouldn't doubt the latter.

Regarding the shipping, when will they ever fething learn? It's exactly what we saw said two years ago, almost two years to the day. May 21st, 2013, PBWU, "With any luck, we’ll have Kickstarter materials shipping to you by October or November (no promises)".

And we had seen the same level of progress then for everything, as we've seen now, for Wave 2. The only way this is IMO achievable, is if they've held back everything. The remaining digital sculpts, all the PPP's, all the test sprues. Which they have no reason to hold back, unless they're afraid the "few dozen negative voices" are worth keeping the remaining 5300+ backers, and anyone who jumped in at retail, completely in the dark.

As for the "really are trying", again, we've seen very little evidence of that. Putting out an informative Update showing exactly where the progress is, would be a start. Keeping up the barest of communications is not hard. Half an hour, once a week, or an hour once every two, to put up a "Here's where we are" should NOT be difficult. They can find the time to photoshop ducks. But what we've seen, is that when convention time comes around, and with two books, and several auxillary things happening, which we KNOW about (because they've kept us informed on THAT), why should we believe that there's meaningful progress behind the scenes, when history shows that just doesn't happen?

 Cypher-xv wrote:
2. Max and Miriyia gencon minis are likely to be re-released to KS backers with additional exclusive products (no specifics yet)

And if this hadn't been utterly bolloxed from the start, maybe it'd be seen as a genuine olive branch. Their adamant refusal to consider this at the time, coupled with a two year wait, isn't likely to do much good. Especially for those people who paid significant markups to scalpers because they were specifically told they could NOT get these any other way.

The "additional exclusive" stuff, again, it could do as much harm as good, trying to force it into the Kickstarter. Because, anything being done here, and in time for Wave 2, is delaying Wave 2. And I'd be curious how the "exclusive" thing would go over with the non-backer crowd. "Hey, I bought this game at retail six months ago, and now I find out there's stuff coming out I'll not be able to get?". It's a fine line they'll have to walk.

And given how well they handled the Survey last time around, that's got the potential to be another clusterfeth too.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
3. The "Advanced" rulebook is on its way. It is currently going through some editing and tweaking.
Some of the rules in question (blast markers shooting at the ground) are the result of certain people making changes in the final rules that were not caught before printing.
(Some things were also blamed on certain people, such as a lack of unit points and content in the main rulebook, etc)

Oh, the throwing under the bus of the Ninja Division staff is classic Palladium. Umm... Who were the people who approved it for printing? Either the people at Palladium either saw the changes, and didn't care (until now, when complaints are raised), or the people at Palladium didn't see the changes, didn't do their jobs (given book editting is one of their primary tasks in their day to day operations), and printed a book they didn't properly check.

Sorry, no matter which way you spin this one, it's on Palladium. ESPECIALLY given reports were that this book was in final layout September 26, 2013, KS#113, "The rulebook is in final layout, and should be sent in for approvals sometime next week" and locked down December 13, 2013, PBWU, "The rule book is done, laid out and approved.". That's MONTHS before it needed to go into printing.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
I talked to Carmen personally at the Open House and about the rulebook, etc. He was unhappy with the final result and had some choice words for some people that I can't name. Anyways...if you look at the rules and layout from a board game perspective it makes more sense, most board games use lots of cards, etc. (Looking at you Fantasy Flight Games).
However, from a war game perspective it doesn't make any sense at all. They know this and they are seeking to rectify the situation if at all possible.""

Yeah, because no TTG uses cards/datasheets to simplify army lists in their wargames. Except Battletech, Malifaux, Warmahordes, and pretty much anything that uses any system that actively tracks damage and expendables (like ammunition).

And wasn't their a claim that they were unhappy with ND's work, and did a full rewrite anyway? So either they did, and this is the result, or they didn't, and despite having significant time (due to the delays on the plastics), either chose not to fix it, or didn't care enough to fix it.

What I DO know, is that if this new book is in any way supplanting the initial book, especially for official games, and the backers are going to be forced to pony up the dough, there's going to be a LOT of screaming. And as n815e pointed out earlier, retail buyers only paid for this six months ago, and their book is already obsolete? Yeah, that's gonna make people happy too.

Palladium employees criticizing others on book layout? That's ironic given their outdated rpgs including the ones carmen specifically praised in his old youtube channel in order to get the job. Also, they had an extra fething year to fix whatever it was they didn't like since they screwed up the production so long; why the hell didn't they fix both the content and layout during THAT time? Other companies concept, plan, hire, design/write, finalize, and produce 250+ page RPG books in less time.

Also, what is the issue with blast markers targeting the ground? Finally, as for max and miriya, that ship has sailed for me long ago and I couldn't care. They screwed over backers when it mattered (2 weeks after the pledge manager closed) and now them selling it is not a fan service but rather stinks of desperation to try and get a few more bucks from backers before they lose them. The new book will be times likely to fit in at the same time as wave to to try and sell it to those customers prior to shipping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Morgan Vening wrote:

Sorry, no matter which way you spin this one, it's on Palladium. ESPECIALLY given reports were that this book was in final layout September 26, 2013, KS#113, "The rulebook is in final layout, and should be sent in for approvals sometime next week" and locked down December 13, 2013, PBWU, "The rule book is done, laid out and approved.". That's MONTHS before it needed to go into printing.

*snip*

And wasn't their a claim that they were unhappy with ND's work, and did a full rewrite anyway? So either they did, and this is the result, or they didn't, and despite having significant time (due to the delays on the plastics), either chose not to fix it, or didn't care enough to fix it.

Considering they were working on the painting guide that was included in the rulebook over a year later (and hawking it for months during and even still now), the idea that the book was in final layout was a bunch of crap. They did say they were rewriting significant portions of it because it wasn't up to spec so, combined with the over one year delay, ALL issues with the book (whether perceived or real on their part) are 100% fully in their court. You don't get to claim to rewrite it, take over 16 months to do it, and THEN blame the previous guy.

Who is the author of the Facebook crap? If reading it wasn't enough, Thomas roache liking it just confirms its drivel.

Joyboozer, please keep me out of your comments, since I have done nothing to you. What I choose to like on facebook should not be up to your uninformed interpretation.

Morgan Vening wrote:

 Cypher-xv wrote:


3. The "Advanced" rulebook is on its way. It is currently going through some editing and tweaking.
Some of the rules in question (blast markers shooting at the ground) are the result of certain people making changes in the final rules that were not caught before printing.
(Some things were also blamed on certain people, such as a lack of unit points and content in the main rulebook, etc)

Oh, the throwing under the bus of the Ninja Division staff is classic Palladium. Umm... Who were the people who approved it for printing? Either the people at Palladium either saw the changes, and didn't care (until now, when complaints are raised), or the people at Palladium didn't see the changes, didn't do their jobs (given book editting is one of their primary tasks in their day to day operations), and printed a book they didn't properly check.

Never played their RPGs did you. The "person" is the same one that never let a book go to print without rewrite part of it or nearly the whole thing, ie. KS the owner of PB.

 warboss wrote:
Palladium employees criticizing others on book layout? That's ironic given their outdated rpgs including the ones carmen specifically praised in his old youtube channel in order to get the job. Also, they had an extra fething year to fix whatever it was they didn't like since they screwed up the production so long; why the hell didn't they fix both the content and layout during THAT time? Other companies concept, plan, hire, design/write, finalize, and produce 250+ page RPG books in less time.

And by "less time" we mean "a fraction of the time, or maybe a thousandth of the time, if we're looking at Mechanoid Space".

Case in point: Feng Shui, another KS I backed. the campaign ended last october 18th, with a release date for everything on august this year (including pdfs, print, etc). it also hit a lot of stretch goals, and the final book is 358 pages of gorgeous layout, with dozens and dozens of completely new, full color art.

We got the pdfs the weekend of may 1st, and the books were sent to print then. They expect to get them back in 8 weeks. So yeah, less than six months, total. And the book is drop-dead gorgeous.

Noir wrote:
Never played their RPGs did you. The "person" is the same one that never let a book go to print without rewrite part of it or nearly the whole thing, ie. KS the owner of PB.

Text doesn't convey it well, but I'm pretty sure Morgan is being rhetorical here.

And it ties into his point; with the MASSIVE rewrites that are part of Kevin's reputation, the "omg things were changed we didn't know wth!?" rings awfully hollow.

Also makes it all the more galling that Kevin supposedly doesn't even know how to play.