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 Talizvar wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
Apologies as I haven't followed this whole Kickstarter debacle as it's gone on.
I've seen a copy of this game at my FLGS and have considered picking it up. However, there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding the company and so I wanted to get opinions of my fellow Dakkanauts: is the core game worth purchasing?

Whoa, Warboss is not a happy camper.

Assuming you know nothing about Robotech.
Go watch some shows on YouTube, I will wait.
Did you like what you saw?
Remember it was a long time ago but transforming robots! and giant bad guys!

Okay, the giant bad guy models are quite nice, I think you will like them.
Now, how good are you at putting models together?
Do you REALLY like it?
20 parts about for a single Veritech figure and you need to build 3 of each type (total 12 for a 4 man squadron).
It will work out to about 30 minutes a model to assemble with the mentioned filling.
Not for the faint at heart but try out a battleoid first, they are more humane and look good.

Have you played 40k?
If so, these rules should be easy enough.

I personally find I have to host and supply both armies so-far.
Going to play tonight BTW.

I would suggest getting the Drop Zone Commander City as a really good and fast means of a pretty area to game.

Give it some thought.
I think you really have to like Robotech (Macross) the anime a whole lot before you would invest the effort in making the game look good.

Best (non-raging) advice I can give. Oh yeah, RUN run while you can... it is too late for us....

I used to watch Robotech when I was a young teenager. I don't care for anime much these days, but I do have a nostalgic love for Robotech (remember playing the cell-shaded game that came out years ago). I played 40k in 6th, but I've begun reducing that collection and expanding into some smaller games like [i]All Quiet on the Martian Front[i], Dystopian Wars, Maelstrom (when it comes out!), and the Halo Fleet Game (again upcoming).

The models look nice, but they do sound tinkery. Company seems problematic as well. Hmm, I might have to give it some thought.

Yes, indeed!

Sometimes JohnHwangDD goes a bit J.H.D.D. on us, but I wouldn't take it personally!

There's a video on mikes FB group with Kevin talking about rrt and the mistakes made on their part. Sorry there's no link for me to paste, you'll have to go and see it yourself.

 Alpharius wrote:
Yes, indeed!

Sometimes JohnHwangDD goes a bit J.H.D.D. on us, but I wouldn't take it personally!

Something I do try to keep in mind.

But seriously, I went over the progression of that exchange like four times and I still have no idea how it went from A to B to N.

Forget C, we skipped half the alphabet worth of waypoints somewhere there.

But apparently there's word from Kevin Himself(tm) to Witness, so let's all go bask in His Glory(c), Hallowed(r) be His name.

Here it is.

http://youtu.be/YuWEgDUKocg

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Here it is.

http://youtu.be/YuWEgDUKocg

I've got better things to do than listen to him self-fellatiate.

Tell me, do all of his mea culpas boil down to "I love too much"?

20 minutes long eh?

Well, my flight was delayed two hours, so let's see what they have to see.

2.5 minutes in. Oh god this fething 'background music' is going to be droning through the whole thing, isn't it?
Interviewer; 'I remember 12 week delays getting mechwarrior figures through customs'.

Yeah no, not the same thing. D-, see me after class.

WilhelmRochRedDuke wrote:

I would like to say that there is alot of misinformation out there. Much of it paints PB in broad negative strokes and creates the toxicity that everyone is seeing.
Should any of the actual history and facts of the situation come out then things would be viewed differently, but that will never matter, since many people are prone to judge Kevin as the bad guy, no matter what PB does or says it will be deemed negative.

How about realizing that much of the misinformation is being generated because there is nothing but silence coming from Palladium and when they do "updates" it's just "coming soon" promises littered with more TM and © symbols than useful text. If you don't have any news don't keep teasing the backers with a coming soon... boast every update. Put in content or don't post.

People that are excited about a game tend to talk about it and when the company isn't supplying anything worthwhile to talk about people start making up rumors or wishlisting and citing it as "official inside news" as they have nothing else to talk about. It doesn't happen just with Robotech, GW's information blackout strategy has a similar effect where what would be positive interest becomes toxic and counterproductive because of the wall that they place between the company and the audience.

There is absolutely nothing that would prevent Palladium from giving out some actual information or progress markers in their updates, not everything will be peaches and cream but the backers would prefer to hear the truth even if it's not good news, but instead all we get is more empty wheel spinning and being treated by a head in the sand attitude. They are keenly aware of the problems when they pop up but the people on the outside would never have a clue about it because PB never takes the time to address anything that might be viewed negatively with their backers.

What information that does come out is through 3rd party people who talk to Palladium through a convention or a phone call, as Palladium seems to be much more forward when discussing things in person. However this causes further disssenion as it always comes off as a he said, she said situation. Nobody can really trust what's being said because any information is always coming second hand and rarely from Palladium themselves. I'm sure there's plenty of times that Kevin has said something to you or Mike yet when you repeat it to the masses it's ignored, called inaccurate, biased, etc, that's because people dislike be given 2nd hand info even if it is correct. If things are to improve they need to hear these things directly from Palladium and if they can say it in person to some fan friend then there's absolutely no reason that same information shouldn't also be in the KS updates.

Not trying to attack you or Mike or anyone that's been trying to be a bridge between PB and the players, but PB really needs to step up and communicate directly to the backers and not try to use secondary channels for distributing information.

 stanman wrote:
PB really needs to step up and communicate directly to the backers and not try to use secondary channels for distributing information.

This. KS Update exists for a reason. It would be nice if PB would use it. Even if it's a short message.

Here's an update on rrt from FB.

"UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

Our focus for the next few months is going to be heavily on Robotech® RPG Tactics™. We want to see RRT Wave Two released by the end of the year, but we have a number of other things coming sooner to support the game line that we think will please our Kickstarter backers and all our supporters very much. We had a good talk with Harmony Gold USA last week and they have green-lighted our plans. We are hammering out the final details right now and will be in a position to start revealing them the week of June 1, 2015.

We will also be working to get a few new book titles released before Gen Con Indy, including Robotech®: Expeditionary Force Marines™, amongst others."

Ah. So, "soon".

Whelp, that's 20 minutes of my life (plus loading time, stupid airport wifi) I'll never get back.

It basically amounted to nothing, at least for those of us who have been paying attention. The interviewer seemed to be more interested in having a chat than getting answers, which may be his thing, but it wasn't remotely informative. While context can be important, I think I learned more about that dude's gaming history than anything else.

Shipping is hard! (Ignored that production took over a year longer than anticipated).

Wants KS backers to hear first! (Great; so tell us something)

HG has green lit... something.

Talk about tanks and infantry. Yes, yes, GHQ, we know.

Might skip Southern Cross, bit of an odd emphasis on having the Invid fight the Zentraedi.

More info 'coming soooooon!'

Sure it is.

I'm phone posting so feel free to add to the list if I missed anything. Each time I went to update here the YouTube app had to start loading info again so it's not exactly an exhaustive list.

"Wave Two released by the end of the year": oh yeah? Which year? Also don't bother mentioning that to any of the white knights, as it's clearly just an estimate and estimates don't count because *reasons*.

Cypher, thanks for the link . There are two parts to the interview linked below for the lazy like me:







I'm over halfway through the first and no real RRPGT info. There are two interesting nuggets though so far.

1) HG is just a joy to work with straight from Kevin. We can now officially cross them OFF THE LIST for companies to share the blame for the 2 year delay of RRPGT.

2) They didn't want to go for TMNT again at this time because "they'd want us to keep their deadlines". That made me chuckle.

 Forar wrote:
20 minutes long eh?

Well, my flight was delayed two hours, so let's see what they have to see. The guy doing the interview is also not very good at it and does unboxing videos much better.

2.5 minutes in. Oh god this fething 'background music' is going to be droning through the whole thing, isn't it?
Interviewer; 'I remember 12 week delays getting mechwarrior figures through customs'.

Yeah no, not the same thing. D-, see me after class.

So far, in the first video, the music is very loud compared to the voice and very annoying.


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Edit: First video is useless except for a few lulz from a RRPGT perspective.

Aw....that's adorable. Kevin found a way to make his wardrobe tax deductible.

Now pb wants to crowd fund their next open house. Unbelievable. Quick someone post the meme with Picard and Riker doing a double facepalm.

Since PB will be concentrating on everything else but wave two does this mean they can't afford to finish it and deliver to us?

I think it's a great idea. The sheer entertainment we could derive from seeing a crowdfunded Open House 2016 happen several years late in 2018 will set a new low even for Palladium.


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 Cypher-xv wrote:
Since PB will be concentrating on everything else but wave two does this mean they can't afford to finish it and deliver to us?

They're always concentrating on everything and accomplishing almost nothing. One of their upcoming books that they're apparently selling an art-free beta version of (the Robotech marines book) was supposed to come out something like 5 years ago in its initial incarnation and since BEFORE the kickstarter in its current version. Two years ago, it just needed a bit more work and a few more pieces of art... and two years later it's "out" but without any art. LOL.

Well the newsletter does say they could see doing them every 2-3 years.

So it'd be a 2020 open house off a 2018 target.

"We have found a way to get suckers to pay for something 2+ years in advance. Let's see how far we can push this."

I don't think there was anything new in that video, was there? The interviewer spent half the time relating his own stories instead of asking a question and getting an answer frequently. For someone who did 40 interviews last gencon (he said that), he's not that good at it.

In any case, the next rolling date to be disappointed by is

"We had a good talk with Harmony Gold USA last week and they have green-lighted our plans. We are hammering out the final details right now and will be in a position to start revealing them the week of June 1, 2015."

We'll see how much real info they'll have by then. With a mention of a vacation week next week, I wouldn't expect anything at all to come out before then but then that's not really a change from the last few months anyways.

So he wants to expand the rrt line by making everything else besides wave two. I'm seriously thinking they can't afford to produce wave two or the KS exclusives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the video don't forget his jibe at mini war gamers as opposed to rpg gamers.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
So he wants to expand the rrt line by making everything else besides wave two. I'm seriously thinking they can't afford to produce wave two or the KS exclusives.

It's not a big stretch. Just based on exceeded labor estimates, things have to be running a little light. What was supposed to be 7 months work, has ballooned out to 24 and counting (if you take them at their word they've devoted as much time as they claim). Let alone all the other blown up costs (materials, specifically the price of the molds jumped, they admitted to blowing not insignificant amounts on advertising incorrect dates, split wave duplicated shipping costs, and shuffling the production timeline, etc). It gets even worse, if they used a portion of the kickstarter funds to pay for the retail part of the production run, if those retail sales aren't going great.

I'm not saying they're out of money at THIS point, but I wouldn't be surprised if all the delays and cost overruns have eaten through any contingency amounts, and that funding needed for the remaining work that hasn't been prepaid, is in excess of the KS funds remaining.

This would include
- any remaining developmental outsourced work (PPP's, sprue layouts, etc), made worse if the rumors re ND and the manufacturer splitting from PB bear out,
- any remaining developmental insourced work (as mentioned below in labor, any time and wages spent on this isn't spent on other things that'll generate revenue)
- the mold engraving for Wave 2 (I believe they purchased the blanks, but the engraving and test runs unless factored into the initial contract, aren't usually free)
- the Wave 2 production run,
- the Wave 2 container shipping
- the Wave 2 personalized shipping (as the money for shipping requested only factored in a single shipment per backer)
- and labor costs (during Wave 1 shipping, yes, they had some volunteers, but they also had what, 4+ salaried employees working 6+ days a week packaging, and not doing stuff that might otherwise help create revenue, ie, it was dead cost labor).

And with most of those increasing on a quarterly or yearly basis, the longer it goes on, the more expensive these things become.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
In the video don't forget his jibe at mini war gamers as opposed to rpg gamers.

For someone who doesn't want to sit through the whole 20 minutes, do you have a timecode, or a direct quote? Cause for the reasons others mentioned above, I REALLY don't want to have to listen to the whole thing.

At around 4:25 he talks about how wargamers are different from rpg gamers.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
At around 4:25 he talks about how wargamers are different from rpg gamers.

Yeah... we wargamers are certainly very different from we ropleplayers

Maybe. I know plenty of people that occupy both categories, but as a wargamer I wouldn't spend any of my time doing RPG-related stuff even though I like narrative games.

Nomeny wrote:
Maybe. I know plenty of people that occupy both categories, but as a wargamer I wouldn't spend any of my time doing RPG-related stuff even though I like narrative games.

Yeah... and in what ways, pray tell, are wargamers different from roleplayers, exactly? What's that big difference? Is it that roleplayers don't want tight rulesets that help them get from the game what they want more easily? Or that roleplayers are willing to put up with more crap because they are playing more subjective games, not having tournaments? Or do they forge narratives (heh) whereas wargamers just want to duke it out?

Because honestly, I'm not sure what kind of sense can you get from a wild ass generalization the level of "wargamers are a totally different animal from roleplayers. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is", because if that was even a tiny bit true, there simply couldn't be people who enjoyed both.

Moreover taking into account where RPGs come from, of course...

Being completely honest, I really can't parse it any other way than "yeah, I really can't be arsed to go learn what wargamers want out of a wargame. They are weird and rare beasts, so I'll just go on with how I usually do stuff and bemoan them for being strange".

Almost everyone I've played with in an RPG campaign has also been a wargamer. That Venn diagram looks almost like two concentric circles in my experience.

TBH there is a difference between how you plan an RPG and how you play a Minis game. One you have a DM that is the final arbiter, hence things like Rifts with iffy rules and situations can be moderated and decided on. Minis games people turn to the rules so they MUST be tighter and well written. Just look at Armada. I had to watch online videos to fully understand some things like the how 3 command dials worked. And I was far from the only one. I did have to clarify some things with PB when I started like Blast and Close Formation too. Minis games the arbiter is the book and when 2 people can't agree on what is says.......

That being said, waiting a whole year for wave 2 with nothing in between would be stupid so you can blame me if you like but I've sent suggestions numerous times to PB on a scenario book, new sub-factions, and Advanced Rules to fill in some of the interim. I still think that is a good idea. It also gives us something more to work with but it needs to be done right. More crap will just make things worse.

I find those who like RPG's tend to be confused with "fluff" players.

It is the kind of person who wants a fairly accurate simulation of a subject source material.

I always know I have met one of these people when they say "but what about the weapons arc?", "it would be more cinematic this way...", "that rule does not make sense, this machine is way faster than the other...","but you should account for all the missiles individually, not as a group...".

The one commonality is we imagine the "scene" in out heads, the RPG players could say that war gamers just like to use less imagination with all those little models.

Funny, I do find that more talk of changing rules tend to lean toward trying to capture the feel of a game rather than to make it less clunky.

Games updates:

Got part of a game in last night, bit too much talking so not as much one would like. A few more observations as we played:

Yep, missiles really hurt.
"Inescapable" is painful, sometimes falling back on anti-missile fire is not fun compared to the option of "dodge".

Zent. pod normal missile fire hurts: think it is 9 points per missile and even if you roll with impact it is 5 points damage per missile (!!??).

Ever try shooting at a Glaug? Defence 7 is a son of a gun to hit, especially when the scout pod jams the guy shooting.

I really think the Pod Scout group is the way to go with the missile pods added on. That unit is mean with all the command points, the scout pod buff/de-buff while the missile pods shoot better.

Valkyries with the MLOPS are good for weathering the missile fire with anti-missile missiles and then unloading it's own.

Hey! The destroids in this case the Tomahawk die like dogs just like in the show! We are finding maneuverability is life. Their only 5" move would find them quickly out of cover and shot-up. They sure put out a beating before they die but I am finding movement and finding cover is pretty important.

Not like the movie: why does the Valk Sgt always seem to die first? Once the opponent knows he is that little bit better, he becomes target priority one.

When grouped together and sharing hits, I find for normal fire it works very nice. When a group of missiles come in, you want nothing to do with it or have two models die rather than one.

Yeah, still preferring the "house rules" we use:
- where you dodge / anti-missile for each individual missile rather than a roll against each volley. Only 1 command point either case.
- "roll with impact" is succeed on 4+ for each hit rather than the guaranteed when spending a command point (we still only use one command point to cover all the hits or they would be gone too fast).
- The 4X MDC of buildings is looking a must: it got a workout this last game. Standing on buildings are death otherwise and the Zents could clear the pesky hard cover in very short order. I need to make DZC building ruins BTW.
- We have been ignoring the "steal the initiative" command point silliness, it is found to be a waste of CP's so-far.

When you roll, damage rounds down to a min of 1, not up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Friendlies DO NOT block LOS and can provide hard cover. Keep you Glaug behind Pods and you VF-1J's behind some VF-1A's....


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Dodge and Anti-Missile has always been against the entire volley BUT you need to roll against the highest attack roll.

Originally I did it where if you had 2 missiles that rolled a 6 and another a 7 and you rolled a 6 to dodge you managed to dodge the 2 sixes. I thought it worked better. The rules are an all or nothing affair but it is against the entire volley.