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Dropped him with Tomb kings twice so far. Once on turn one.

Got odd wound with arrow fire, and had a typical max vs like 4 magic phase with arkhan. got D&D up and 6 dice casket.

Other time, was putting him in a double sphinx sandwhich with dessication and bubble smiting.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
Coven of Light High Elves S6 3d6 re-roll wards 5+/5++forced-re-roll it works

Awesome. That averages 10 hits, 6.66 wounds, 2/3rds fail armor and 8/9ths fail ward. Average is 3.95 wounds. I'd six dice that. You have a very real shot at dropping him in one round.
As long as he doesn't get leaper up, or give himself regeneration, you should be good to go.


Triad of Banishment, and Slaan with bane head and feedback scroll both made my short list of things to pretty much always take.

-Matt

Yeah Heroic Killing Blow is about the only other way I can think of and almost no one has it.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
A single deathshrieker rocket, hellcannon etc has a solid chance of obliterating him. If you wound him (after saves) with either of these you have a 50/50 of killing him

Yeah, if you ignore the chance to misfire, the chance to scatter off target, the chance to fail to wound, his chance to pass a ward save, then yes, you can kill him in one hit.
You do a D6 wounds, and he has at least 4 wounds. I say at least, because lore of nurgle can give him both toughness and wounds from the lore attribute.
You can't really just look at the last role in a required series and say Ah-ha! 50/50.

If it were 50/50, 2 hell cannons should almost always kill him in 2 shooting phases.
Here's the odds.
5/6ths of the shots don't misfire. 1/3rd of those that don't misfire "Hit" instead of scattering. 5/6 of those wound. 2/3rd of the wounds bypass armor.
So to connect and get to the point where you get to roll to wound, you're looking at ~15%.
Then you need to do ~4 wounds.
1 shotting a prince who has not increased his wounds is under 8%.
At 210 points a hellcannon, it becomes a really ineffective method. With no other shooting in the army to speak of, if you wound him with the hell cannon (didn't roll the 4+ for number of wounds) you lack the ability to finish him.
If I had hell cannons, I'm going to bet I have more effective targets for the S5/10 shot.

This is the problem with the Nurgle Prince. He hits hard enough that you can't totally ignore him, casts effectively enough where you don't want to ignore him, but he's stupidly durable making him very hard to kill.

-Matt

I did point out that you had to wound him MAtt and with infernal engineers your chances of hitting are quite good when their spread throughout your line. A rerollable one in three to hit, a 5 in 6 to wound, a 2 in 3 chance of him failing his ward save and a 1 in 2 chance of him dying from the d6 wounds seems like better than an 8% chance to me mate it'd be closer to 10%. And when you take into account that I could easily be running three deathshrieker rockets and two hellcannons the chances of him dying turn one are pretty good. And only the first shot has the 1 in 2 chance of killing him on the d6 wounds, any preceding wound rolls have a greater chance of killing him due to the fact that he has already lost wounds. Its not as guaranteed as say a light council taking him out in a turn with banichment but I can't take light councils in my army.

As a sidenote, toy soldiers is a lot less fun when lots of numbers are thrown around

-Ad

DukeRustfield wrote:
He doesn't swing with club. DP is large. I did think the thump with club for whatever reason was the giant's I to get embedded. I hadn't read it in a while.

But let's skip to the end and say all this is true. The Giant does nothing and dies in 3 rounds. You have designed a, according to your specs above, 525 point character, general and lead wizard who sat for 3 rounds fighting a single 200 point model. I say that is an easy victory and what I said still stands. 2 Giants would still clock in at 400 and would hold him for the entire game.

300pts is a soulgrinder. It's 20 Phoenix Guard. It's 10 Trolls. It's 5 beasts of nurgle (20 T5 wounds with regen at -1 to hit--and just to be annoying, every single one of them can challenge him every round).

A DP is super duper defensive. The breath weapon is a single use. But if he's not Tstomping, he's got 4 (poison/magic) attacks. If you use 525 points to kill him, which is huge, you've broken even. The above is just 300pts to hold him up, because that's arbitrarily what I said. 525 pts is more than 2 soulgrinders. Balesword, lvl 4, Greater Unclean One. A Changeling + a buncha horrors to hide in. 2 skull cannons + a soul grinder.

You can do an awful lot with that much points. A mega buff DP is no doubt really good but you're making him out to be unbeatable.

The problem with everything you said, is you forget that the DP player will almost always get to pick and choice who he's in combat with and who it will be. Stacking up 525pts against 525pts and debating what the outcomes would be is one thing. Actually getting the combined 525pts of the opposing player to the DP is a whole other issue all together.

Bottom line....The Nurgle DP is a cheez tank that can kill just about anything and there are limited reliable or sure ways to kill it.

Like others have said, for the Ogres I would point Ironblasters at it and maybe use the Hellheart as well.

Other options would be giants or maybe a kitted out Tyrant might have a shot.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
Coven of Light High Elves S6 3d6 re-roll wards 5+/5++forced-re-roll it works

Awesome. That averages 10 hits, 6.66 wounds, 2/3rds fail armor and 8/9ths fail ward. Average is 3.95 wounds. I'd six dice that. You have a very real shot at dropping him in one round.
As long as he doesn't get leaper up, or give himself regeneration, you should be good to go.


Triad of Banishment, and Slaan with bane head and feedback scroll both made my short list of things to pretty much always take.

-Matt

High Elves just need to take their shiny new Skill Banner. Daemon Prince of derpyness is now facing an entire unit with a 2++. He's going nowhere...

Experiment 626 wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
Coven of Light High Elves S6 3d6 re-roll wards 5+/5++forced-re-roll it works

Awesome. That averages 10 hits, 6.66 wounds, 2/3rds fail armor and 8/9ths fail ward. Average is 3.95 wounds. I'd six dice that. You have a very real shot at dropping him in one round.
As long as he doesn't get leaper up, or give himself regeneration, you should be good to go.


Triad of Banishment, and Slaan with bane head and feedback scroll both made my short list of things to pretty much always take.

-Matt

High Elves just need to take their shiny new Skill Banner. Daemon Prince of derpyness is now facing an entire unit with a 2++. He's going nowhere...

The Chaos player would have to be a complete moron to either charge or allow that unit to charge his Daemon Prince. As others have said, the Daemon Prince with his flying move can (usually) pick and choose his opponents. MAYBE a unit of dragon princes could catch him.

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:

The Chaos player would have to be a complete moron to either charge or allow that unit to charge his Daemon Prince. As others have said, the Daemon Prince with his flying move can (usually) pick and choose his opponents. MAYBE a unit of dragon princes could catch him.

That would be great if you knew where the banner is.
Of course, if you're opponent is a dick, he'll stick it on the BSB riding a griffon.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:

The Chaos player would have to be a complete moron to either charge or allow that unit to charge his Daemon Prince. As others have said, the Daemon Prince with his flying move can (usually) pick and choose his opponents. MAYBE a unit of dragon princes could catch him.

That would be great if you knew where the banner is.
Of course, if you're opponent is a dick, he'll stick it on the BSB riding a griffon.

-Matt

But doesnt the banner have to be inn the group for getting them affected?

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:

The Chaos player would have to be a complete moron to either charge or allow that unit to charge his Daemon Prince. As others have said, the Daemon Prince with his flying move can (usually) pick and choose his opponents. MAYBE a unit of dragon princes could catch him.

That would be great if you knew where the banner is.
Of course, if you're opponent is a dick, he'll stick it on the BSB riding a griffon.

-Matt

That would be funny

In all fairness though the banner only seems to be OTT when placed in a large unit of elites complete with characters. That's a unit I would be avoiding with my DP regardless of whether or not it had the banner.

Even with a 2++, I think a DP could take a Griffon and rider, however it would take much longer than it should, and I'd be worried about other units flanking my Prince. So...it could work???

im a new dwarf player and have never faced something like this, but now im nervous and apparently my only option to to hit him with a cannon and hope for the best, greeeeeeaaatt

To be fair, that is dwarfs main answer to a LOT of problems...

The DP should have a decent chance even against the 2++ unit because of thunderstomp. D6 str 6 hits may well be enough for him to win combat.

Niteware wrote:
The DP should have a decent chance even against the 2++ unit because of thunderstomp. D6 str 6 hits may well be enough for him to win combat.

They still get the 2++ against the Thunderstomp, so it's not quite as helpful as it may seem...

 spyguyyoda wrote:

Niteware wrote:
The DP should have a decent chance even against the 2++ unit because of thunderstomp. D6 str 6 hits may well be enough for him to win combat.

They still get the 2++ against the Thunderstomp, so it's not quite as helpful as it may seem...

How so? It isn't magical...

Niteware wrote:

 spyguyyoda wrote:

Niteware wrote:
The DP should have a decent chance even against the 2++ unit because of thunderstomp. D6 str 6 hits may well be enough for him to win combat.

They still get the 2++ against the Thunderstomp, so it's not quite as helpful as it may seem...

How so? It isn't magical...

Reading comprehension = 0.

Page 26, Daemons Army Book:

A Daemon's attacks are magical. This includes any special, ranged, or Stomp attacks they make.

No go away or I shall taunt you for a second time.

Hmmm - does it say the same n the WoC book? If not, then I shall fart in your general direction.

Thunderstomp is not magical attacks ¨rulebook¨

phatonic wrote:
Thunderstomp is not magical attacks ¨rulebook¨

Warhammer Armies Daemons says otherwise...

Granted the WoC Daemon Prince, which is the one being discussed here, for the time being can rely on Thunderstomp against a BotWD unit...
But don't be surprised if GW turns around and errata's him to be just like the newer DoC version.

WoC stomps are magical too if they have the Daemonic Attacks SR.

DukeRustfield wrote:
WoC stomps are magical too if they have the Daemonic Attacks SR.

Which they actually do! (just checked my WoC book...)

So there ya go HE players. Use your Mat Ward Banner on a unit of Dragon Princes and the big bad 'ol Daemon Prince just bounces right off.

Yup, just got home and checked too :(. So I guess it IS my father that smells of elderberries. Who knew.

Even has flaming breath would be magical, which it wouldn;t be if a human had it. Swings and roundabouts I guess. If mt BSB or a unit champ gets turned into a DP, I'm not going to think "Oh no, that blooming banner!", I'll try to just attack other stuff Let all the mundane hitty units take it out if it is on the table.

If that unit had rerolls it would be a worry, but I would fancy my DPs chances against White Lions.

How about any of the spells that don't allow saves?

Niteware wrote:
The DP should have a decent chance even against the 2++ unit because of thunderstomp. D6 str 6 hits may well be enough for him to win combat.

Yeah okay 3.5 hits =2.91 wounds=.5 fails or more likely 1

Also 626 be fair the high elves can't do coven of light anymore and the demon prince can wreck any unit of ours without the banner in fact the best way to deal with him is ..... A prince on a Star dragon with Star lance talisman of preservation shield dragon armor enchanted shield. That is more points than he is.

Our other option is spam bolt throwers and hope for the best

Because a fly Demon prince can't be touched by the banner unit

 captain collius wrote:


Yeah okay 3.5 hits =2.91 wounds=.486 or or more likely 0

Fixed that for you.

Factor in his melee attacks and he should always get 1 wound, but pffff, what's one wound between friends?

Sure - but they have a small chance to get 1 wound on him too PLUS they will have +3 or 4 static combat res (more if BSB).

Killjoy00 wrote:
Sure - but they have a small chance to get 1 wound on him too PLUS they will have +3 or 4 static combat res (more if BSB).

If only the DP wasn't unbreakable...

List of Daemon Prince counters:

-Non-flaming cannons (Ironblaster, great cannon), particularly if you have more than one.
-Things that do a lot of s5 armor piercing shooting (helblaster, organ gun).
- Hellpit Abomination. An awful lot of s6 auto-hits, and the DP is highly unlikely to kill it in one round.
- From within WoC, tie him up with an unkillable BSB other mounted character with the 3++/reroll 1s.
- Any magic missile, but particularly spirit leech or the Amber Spear (make sure to fireball him first to knock the charmed shield off).
- Other forms of death sniping such as fate of Bjuna. Somewhat suboptimal relative to other targets, but gets the wounds through.
- Beasts of Nurgle/Crypt Horrors. He probably can't kill enough of them to soulfeed sufficiently, and sooner or later all that poison will get through even his excellent saves.
-Large units of Chaos Trolls. s5 no-armor autohits.
-High or Dark Elves with Mindrazor. Works best with rerolls to hit.
-Still untested, but those new rare archers from high elves with s4, bs5, -1 to his armor have some potential.
- Van Horstmann's Speculum
-Repeater/reaper bolt thrower spam.
-Terrorgheist screams.
- Uber-level Transformation of Kadon. Or, for lulz, cast the smaller version from a ring of Volans Witch Hunter that will reroll all his hits and wounds.

There are probably more. If all else fails, tie him up in a slave tube for the game and defeat the now thoroughly nerfed chaos warrior army.

Personally, I hate taking a daemon prince. It's a lot of eggs in what is really not that durable of a basket outside close combat. At adepticon last month, I was shot with a skullcannon and failed charmed shield, failed dragonbane, died at the top of turn 1, game 1, and of course it was all over. not to whine - this is a dice game - but to indicate that there's a lot that can happen to a 4-wound model who can't join units, and if that model is carrying 525 points and all of your magic levels, losing him is bad news.

Saldiven wrote:

Killjoy00 wrote:
Sure - but they have a small chance to get 1 wound on him too PLUS they will have +3 or 4 static combat res (more if BSB).

If only the DP wasn't unbreakable...

Right... but he isn't breaking through them... ever. So they sit there and hold each other up...