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Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

To call it a counter, I really want decent odds of killing a prince.
Counting on a cannon not misfiring, bouncing to hit the target, successfully wounding, the prince failing his charmed shield, the prince failing is 2+ ward, and then the cannon rolling high enough to kill him (4+) is a very long shot.
I could also have my wizard miscast turn 1, fail his throne of vines, suck enough guys into the warp that I panic, and have the panic spread to 2 more units and be down ~1000 points before my opponents first turn.
You're Daemon Prince getting 1 shooted by flaming cannon is <1% chance.

24 out of 36 cannons shots bounce through an unscreened >2" base. 2/3rds of those fail saves.
~37% of the time that you fire a cannon at the prince, you get to roll the die to see how many wounds you do.
3 Cannons is a counter, 3 cannons and 3 stone throwers is a hard counter.

Hell Pit: Best case is 2D6 attacks, which will be hitting on 6's. You can hope for high impact hits, but I wouldn't put money on aboms. In fact, if I were a daemon prince, I would go for the Abom so it doesn't hit the rest of my army.
Hellblasters have a good chance, organ guns lack the volume of fire. 4+ to wound, 4+ armor, 5+ ward means you really need a few of these to work.
WOC, best solution is another daemon prince. Saying a prince counters a prince is crappy.
Very few magic missiles do anything. T5 1+ armor is very tough for nearly all magic missile. Spirit leech just got a boost with the new FAQ, as the casting wizard can use inspiring presence and the prince is stuck with Ld9.
Other death spells tend to lack the range to get the job done.
The problem with beasts/horrors is frontage. The prince will survive, and will keep casting. He's got plenty of open frontage around him for help to come in, and since he survive, that help could show up 4 turns later, and he's still doing fine. S4 poison isn't going to kill him. Every 54th attack gets past is 6+ to hit, 1+ armor and 5+ ward.
Trolls are decent, if you can get the M6 walkers in combat with the M10 flyer. They'll average 2 wounds a turn if they can get in.
Yeah, mindrazor solves everything. If you 6 dice it and get the 25% unstoppable, or your opponent fails to dispel.
New elf archers are flaming attacks: 2 or 3+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 3+ armor, 2+ ward vs fire. Every ~65 shots averages 1 wound.
Speculum is another good solution; but even with speculum you're still hitting on 6's. If the prince takes the breathe, he might win, if not, it's still going to be very long fight.
Repeater Bolt Throwers: Multi shot averages .29 wounds, single shot averages .59. Repeater crossbows get 1 wound for every 54 shooters double tapping at short range.
Terrorgheist is good. 2 screams and he's dead.
Ubertransformation into what? You'll have to accept the challenge, and if you don't kill him in 1 round, it will get dispelled, and then you're pretty much toast.

From your list, solid counters look like:
Empire: lots of warmachines (3 cannons and 2 hellblasters), and/or speculum.
Trolls: Got to catch him.
Spirit Leech spam and enough power dice to get them off.
Mind Razor.
Terrorgheists

-Matt


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/10 16:08:57


 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in gb
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight



Edinburgh, Scotland

I would say that best WoC counter is a Lord with a non-slaanesh mark and the Hellfire sword - 5 attacks which hit on 5s, no armour save and multiple wounds D3

Nite 
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

Niteware wrote:
I would say that best WoC counter is a Lord with a non-slaanesh mark and the Hellfire sword - 5 attacks which hit on 5s, no armour save and multiple wounds D3

And wound on 4+ and saves on 2+ ward due to the attacks being flaming.
1 in 36 attacks gets past the ward save. For a khorne lord with the banner of never lose frenzy would do a D3 wounds after 6 rounds of combat.

-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block






Look Matt its quite an easy fix,

Charge your white lion unit with the BoTWD banner into him and chop him into little pieces over 5 rounds.
I assume you also play high elves now with the rest of the population, because Mat Ward says you have too.

GW Fulchester on 12th march wrote:
We are pleased to announce that we have streamlined the miniature collecting process. For a large sum of money we will simply give you an empty box with an exciting picture of a Space Marine on the front.

We call this the "You won't get round to painting it anyway" scheme.

Check out my Warmaster Blog at: www.theultimatewarmaster.wordpress.com
 
   
Made in au
Terrifying Treeman






The Fallen Realm of Umbar

 Bloodmagic wrote:
Look Matt its quite an easy fix,

Charge your white lion unit with the BoTWD banner into him and chop him into little pieces over 5 rounds.
I assume you also play high elves now with the rest of the population, because Mat Ward says you have too.

Except that White Lions are only M5, compared to the Prince's M10, then since the White Lions are probably a horde of 40-50, it will be quite an unwieldy unit to try and chase something with.

DT:90-S++G++M++B+IPw40k07+D+A+++/cWD-R+T(T)DM+
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.

 
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block






I would appreciate it if you did not let common sense get in the way of a good story.


GW Fulchester on 12th march wrote:
We are pleased to announce that we have streamlined the miniature collecting process. For a large sum of money we will simply give you an empty box with an exciting picture of a Space Marine on the front.

We call this the "You won't get round to painting it anyway" scheme.

Check out my Warmaster Blog at: www.theultimatewarmaster.wordpress.com
 
   
Made in gb
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight



Edinburgh, Scotland

 Bloodmagic wrote:
I would appreciate it if you did not let common sense get in the way of a good story.



Lol.

Had forgotten that they were flaming attacks from Hellfire Sword. I think this is excusable because nothing else WoC with the word fire or flame in it is flaming...

Nite 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Remember, Chaos is chaotic. So when they say Flaming they mean not flaming. Just wait until you see my Wussy Power of Suckiness that drops 5 large templates of HKB S5 multi-wound hits (that grant a 1+ ward save if you don't die).

   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





HawaiiMatt wrote:
Hell Pit: Best case is 2D6 attacks, which will be hitting on 6's. You can hope for high impact hits, but I wouldn't put money on aboms. In fact, if I were a daemon prince, I would go for the Abom so it doesn't hit the rest of my army.

-Matt


Just for the record, the Best Case Scenario would be: Pass Initiative or take 1 automatic S6 hit, then take 2d6 automatic S6 Hits. versus a 1+/4+, that's 1.6 Wounds, unless he's T6.

 
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

Warpsolution wrote:
HawaiiMatt wrote:
Hell Pit: Best case is 2D6 attacks, which will be hitting on 6's. You can hope for high impact hits, but I wouldn't put money on aboms. In fact, if I were a daemon prince, I would go for the Abom so it doesn't hit the rest of my army.

-Matt


Just for the record, the Best Case Scenario would be: Pass Initiative or take 1 automatic S6 hit, then take 2d6 automatic S6 Hits. versus a 1+/4+, that's 1.6 Wounds, unless he's T6.

I thought it was 2D6 attacks, not hits.
And the other 2 results do what?

-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Poxed Plague Monk




san diego

a S6 hit doing d3 wounds and ignoring armor.

3d6 attacks with a secondary effect that will not matter in this case.

for 40k

skaven for fantasy. for the under empire!........but it isn't a game anymore.

for infinity 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





Feed doesn't have many dice involved, and it could go very poorly for the Prince (on average, I think it's 1/.6W, depending on his T).
3d6 attacks is pretty awful, but I think the main thing, as always with the Abomination, is the chance to roll up something else. I wouldn't risk my Prince on him.

 
   
Made in us
Crafty Clanrat





Just played versus WoC monster mash yesterday. Karl Franz killed the Nurgle Prince with a little magic support (timewarp). If I had rolled Speed of Light it would have been even easier. Other tricksters was on a roving peg captain to support tank charges. I believe Empire has all the best options for dealing with Nurgle princes.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Theofilos wrote:
I used on my Empire army, a Battle Wizard Lord with Van Horstmann Speculum + Sword of Striking +1 to hit + 5+ ward save. When he switches stats he only got 1 attack ws9 str 3 and I got his stats on ws3 with +1 to hit. Tho it is not a solution cause flying makes him really hard to lure him whereever you want him to be.


Thats what a Pegasus is for.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

 Orlanth wrote:
 Theofilos wrote:
I used on my Empire army, a Battle Wizard Lord with Van Horstmann Speculum + Sword of Striking +1 to hit + 5+ ward save. When he switches stats he only got 1 attack ws9 str 3 and I got his stats on ws3 with +1 to hit. Tho it is not a solution cause flying makes him really hard to lure him whereever you want him to be.


Thats what a Pegasus is for.


Wizard lord on peg with speculum is the way to go. Along with lore of light.
Only problem is enemy warmachines sniping the wizard. So take a big unit of Demi-grif knights so he gets a look out.
And you don't have to kill him, you only need to make a bubble of avoidance.
I'd even play the shell game.
Flying wizard lord, flying captain x2. Guess who has the speculum.


-Matt


 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in gb
Nimble Pistolier





Belfast

Id rather stick with my arch lector + alter solution...

The Men of Ostermark 6K

http://japehlio.blogspot.com/

Custom Insignia? Theming an army? I take sculpting commissions. PM me for more information. 
   
 
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