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2013/04/20 15:58:16
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Im not all up to date on the new tau codex...but this doesn't seem like a couple people were playing correctly.
According to a couple players when assaulted tau now have fire support...and every unit on the table that has los gets to fire overwatch...even ones that normally would be WAY out of range. Something doesn't seem to correct about this.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/20 21:47:27
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2013/04/20 16:03:31
Subject: sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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Lord of the Fleet
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Any unit within 6"
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2013/04/20 16:03:45
Subject: sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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Confessor Of Sins
WA, USA
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If it is LOS, then it is incorrect.
Fire Support is all units within 6" of the charged unit. That said, if they are in a long line, the units covered b a 6" bubble can be pretty widespread, but unless you have more information it is cheating as you describe it.
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 Ouze wrote:
Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
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2013/04/20 16:04:12
Subject: sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
South Chicago burbs
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any unit with at least 1 model within 6" of the unit being assaulted may choose to overwatch.
Some people have been stringing a unit of kroot in front of the entire army, and when they are assaulted, basically the entire army gets to ovewrwatch, but still only 1 time for each unit each turn.
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2013/04/20 16:16:33
Subject: sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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 BarBoBot wrote:any unit with at least 1 model within 6" of the unit being assaulted may choose to overwatch.
When I read it, I thought it said "any model within 6" of the target unit," not "any unit within 6" of the target unit." But I don't have the book, so I could be wrong.
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future  8500  1500   6000   2000  5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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2013/04/20 16:38:46
Subject: sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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It is any UNIT within 6" of a the unit being charged,
You still need range to the unit charging you, as well as LOS for any model wishing to fire
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2013/04/20 16:42:17
Subject: sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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Regular Dakkanaut
Sioux Falls, SD
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And the thing is - you still have to make the shots like normal (except of template weapons - they automatically work) - the unit still has to have range. While it may normally work, there are cases were models are not in range.
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Raver Tau: Just Started; Record (WLD): 0-0-0
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2013/04/20 17:36:44
Subject: Re:sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest
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tanker19, if something like this happens in a game you're actually playing in - ask to see the rule in the Codex.
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 "Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch |
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2013/04/21 00:53:56
Subject: sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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So the rule says, "all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the charging unit's target...."
I can't think of a time when a model isn't in a unit...but it's still models, no?
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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2013/04/21 00:57:57
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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The Hive Mind
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The difference is that if it said models within 6", then any models outside 6" could not fire, even if some of the unit was inside 6".
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2013/04/21 00:59:34
Subject: sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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 Elric Greywolf wrote:So the rule says, "all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the charging unit's target...."
I can't think of a time when a model isn't in a unit...but it's still models, no?
Only models with the rule can fire... but they just have to be in a unit within 6". The individual models shooting don't have to be within 6".
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2013/04/21 01:01:51
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Ummm quick question - would it be possible to rename the thread "Something doesn't smell Kosher"? The misspelling of the word "Kosher" is really annoying for some reason.
Thank you.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/21 01:02:18
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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2013/04/21 01:20:41
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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That was already done before I posted... 
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2013/04/21 01:28:48
Subject: sumthin doesnt smell koesher
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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 insaniak wrote: Elric Greywolf wrote:So the rule says, "all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the charging unit's target...."
I can't think of a time when a model isn't in a unit...but it's still models, no?
Only models with the rule can fire... but they just have to be in a unit within 6". The individual models shooting don't have to be within 6".
Hah! Your comment fixed my reading, somehow. I could feel the rule click into place in my head. So the participial phrase "within 6" modifies "units" instead of "models." Problem solved!
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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2013/04/21 02:01:00
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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I interpret this vastly different...
The direct wording of the rule Supporting Fire : When an enemy unit declares a charge, all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the charging unit' target can choose to fire Overwatch as if they were also targets of the charge. Remember that a unit can still only fire Overwatch once each phase.
I interpret this as follows.
MODELS > with this special rule > in units within "6" - as to say, only models within 6" of the unit can fire their overwatch.
But that is just me, and I'm sure most people wouldn't agree. Seems like it's broken if models completely out of LOS or even range could fire their weapons from X distance as overwatch for the "Being Charged" unit.
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
 11,000
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2013/04/21 02:02:52
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The modifier "in 6"" is directly attached to the owner "unit"
Units within 6" allow their models (all models in the unit) to fire.
Noone has said that this allows you to bypass any other shooting rules - they are just allowed to fire Overwatch. If out of range, they automatically miss as per the shooting rules. If out of LOS, they cannot shoot overwatch.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/21 02:03:34
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2013/04/21 02:04:12
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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The Hive Mind
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They'd still have to have range and LoS to fire.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2013/04/21 02:10:23
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Been Around the Block
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GoliothOnline wrote:MODELS > with this special rule > in units within "6" - as to say, only models within 6" of the unit can fire their overwatch.
When you break down the sentence this way (which is the correct way) it should be clear that it says units within 6" and not models. How you can interpret this any other way is puzzling to me. Also, models still need to adhere to the normal rules for shooting e.g. having LOS and being within range of their weapon. The only exception being template weapons.
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2013/04/21 02:17:28
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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So lets make an example.
Unit 1 comes under charge by the enemy.
Unit 2 has 6 fire warriors in its unit, 1 of which is within 6" of unit 1
Does:
A) Unit 2's fire warriors (That is, all 6 models) fire their overwatch
or
B) The 1 model from Unit 2 that is within the 6" range of Unit 1 may fire its overwatch.
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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2013/04/21 02:22:04
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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The Hive Mind
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A. Models with the special rule (all 6 fire warriors) in a unit within 6" (the single model within 6" means that the unit is within 6") get to fire.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2013/04/21 02:24:27
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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rigeld2 wrote:A. Models with the special rule (all 6 fire warriors) in a unit within 6" (the single model within 6" means that the unit is within 6") get to fire.
See I personally think it's B
all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" - To me sounds like only the models within the unit that are within 6"
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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2013/04/21 02:28:07
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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The Hive Mind
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If it said all models within 6", that'd be one thing.
It says all models with the rule in units within 6".
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2013/04/21 02:50:12
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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But why mention models at all in the ruling?
Why bother stating that "MODELS with this special rule in units within 6"
Surely the same effect comes from saying "Units with this special rule within 6"
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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2013/04/21 02:58:38
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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GoliothOnline wrote:But why mention models at all in the ruling?
Why bother stating that "MODELS with this special rule in units within 6"
Surely the same effect comes from saying "Units with this special rule within 6"
An attached IC might not have this special rule. In that case they couldn't fire.
If it said units, then they would.
Edit: Hmm... Drones attached to units, do they have the special rule as well?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/21 03:00:05
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2013/04/21 03:00:22
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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The Hive Mind
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GoliothOnline wrote:But why mention models at all in the ruling?
Why bother stating that "MODELS with this special rule in units within 6"
Surely the same effect comes from saying "Units with this special rule within 6"
No, it's not the same effect. If it said "Units with this special rule" an IC without the rule joining the unit would be able to fire.
Using the actual rule the same IC would not be able to.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
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2013/04/21 03:08:29
Subject: Re:Something doesn't smell kosher
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Lieutenant General
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When an enemy unit declares a charge, all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the charging unit's target can choose to fire Overwatch as if they were also targets of the charge
I think that more than amply proves who can fire Overwatch (the entire unit).
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2013/04/21 03:57:40
Subject: Re:Something doesn't smell kosher
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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 Ghaz wrote: When an enemy unit declares a charge, all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the charging unit's target can choose to fire Overwatch as if they were also targets of the charge
I think that more than amply proves who can fire Overwatch (the entire unit).
Just the ones in the unit with the SR can fire.
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-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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2013/04/21 04:23:02
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
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Drones have supporting fire.
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2013/04/21 05:47:48
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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It specifies that only models with this rule can fire overwatch because of potential Allies. If an allied Farseer, for example, is attached to the unit that is 6" away, he will not get to fire Overwatch, but all the Fire Warriors in the unit (who have range and LoS) will.
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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2013/04/21 08:22:21
Subject: Something doesn't smell kosher
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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Because only the models with Supporting Fire are allowed to fire, models without that special rule may not fire even if their unit contains models with that special rule.
Further I would pose to you:
if the sentence "all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the charging unit's target" means "all friendly models with this special rule within 6" of the charging unit's target...." then why would they even mention "in units" in the ruling?
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Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).
-Jeremy Vetock, only man at Games Workshop who understands Zooming Flyers |
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