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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 17:10:11
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So I was considering expanding my space wolf army a bit and I was curious about quite a few units, Ulrik the Slayer and Bjorn the Fellhanded from HQ's aswell as Iron Priests from Elites and Land Speeders, Swiftclaws, Skyclaws and Fenrisian Wolves from Fast Attack. Are these units good? Do you use them and if so how? How do you equip them? Tell me about them ^_^
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 18:36:41
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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In a book full of overpriced characters,, Ulrick is the worst. He has nothing. All that extra stuff he has (re-rolling wounds on T5, although he already re-rolls ones, and rerolling leadership tests) just aren't worth bringing him for, especially considering his hefty price. Bjorn is something that should have been. He costs too many points, but he could have been awesome. A character, with AV:13 and 5++ would have rocked in challenges, but he has the god awful rule which basically chains a troops choice to him, and thus prevents movement. Not to mention he's slow as gak, so you're paying 270pts for a single plasma cannon for most of the game. If he had access to a drop pod, lost the Living Relic rule and had a points reduction then he'd be fantastic...but he doesn't. Iron priests are like a bad techmarine. Don't go near them, they have nothing of interest. You're paying for a powerfist that a) stays near vehicles and never gets to use the powerfist. Or b) never gets to use the repair function. Landspeeders aren't terrible! Although they're not great. AV:10 with 2HP is vulnerable even if you get a 4+ cover save. HF + HF speeders and MM + MM are the best IMO, but I think the SW codex can handle everything they do in other ways. Swiftclaws are underrated. The buffs to bikes have moved them from useless to mediocre. They work well with multiple threat lists and drop pod lists due to their fantastic speed. A small squad can have an impact, and with the 2 attacks on the charge can be more ballsy than most marine bikes (remember, if you assault, you don't want to kill a unit on your turn, you want to kill them on your opponent's turn). I've had some use out of them, but they're not game breaking. Skyclaws are terrible. I don't even know what to say about them. They're just assault marines, which in general suck, and require a WGPL or they'll run 3d6 on taking damage. Fenrisian wolves are interesting. I've play tested them a couple of times and seen them used a lot. They're fast, they're ignorable and they're cheap. They can be used as a delivery method for Thunder Wolf Lords (granting move through cover) by giving him a ton of cheap ablative wounds to LOS to. Alternatively they can be used as a cheap distraction unit. With their relatively large movement distance they can get into assault and tie up heavy weapons by turn 2, and they can also skulk around until turn 5 to be used as objective contesters. I like these guys, they have their uses, although I generally overlook them for the better things in the SW codex.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/20 18:38:32
Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 19:27:41
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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What about Blood Claws? Are they ever worth taking or are they as bad as they seem? They seem worse then Grey Hunters in nearly every way and costs the same as Grey Hunters..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 19:33:33
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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Not really. They require a LR to be used at maximum effectiveness and also a Wolf Priest; in a big blob. They're a troops choice that doesn't contribute anything worth while out of the assault phase.
Some people like them, but they're just not as good as Grey Hunters, which are arguably the best troops choice in the whole of 40k, if not the best MEQ troop.
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Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 19:47:31
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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I agree with most of this, for the most part. I guess it depends what you're going for.
I love Björn and think his Living Relic rule makes for an interesting dynamic. I can understand why some players wouldn't want that though.
Sky Claws are just as underrated as Blood Claws, if not more so. A full unit with a flamed and MotW is a force to be reckoned with on the charge. Add in a Wolf Priest and even more so. One has to have realistic expectations though. They're meant to spearhead an assault, intimidate, and give time for the slower units to get in to support. They're not meant to be there the whole game and they need to utilize cover do they can get into comba or they're a waste. In conjunction with TWC, wolves, or a DP WGT squad, it can put the enemy between a rock and a hard place.
I have an affinity for Land Speeders and have found them to be more durable, and threatening than many would lead you to believe. I've had them Last most of a game, but you have to plan them out, have a clear purpose for them in mind and make sure you've got more than one or have something else that's just as threatening so they don't get focused on. Any combination of set up can be effectice, just plan it out first.
I can't comment on Swift Claws but I like the idea of them, I'd class Blood Claws with the Sky Claws. I'm curious about Iron Priests too, but can't see much use for them. Maybe someone else can make a suggestion.
I think any unit in the codex has its uses. Any can be worth taking, they just have to be used appropriately. What that means is flexible. Try them all out via proxies and see how they fit with your style and list.
Grey Hunters are more durable, powerful, and versatile than Blood Claws. BC have uses and can be fun but I can't deny that they're less effective. GH are one of the best troop choices in the game. I usually take only GH as my troops, but I wouldn't be opposed to trying out BC.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 22:01:43
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. George, UT
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I'm going to disagree at lot with Griddlelol.
The units your interested in are perfectly good units, they just do not have the plug and play ability of the others. But with a little forethought, they can work well.
Ulrik brings a lot to the table, just not in places where you would think. His mentor ability is pretty cool when placed on a model that can really take use of it. Say the Thunderhammer wielding Thunderwolf model. Now the guy is WS5 and is now hitting on a 3+ instead of a 4+ against most common enemies.
The wolfhelm of russ can be very useful as you have now removed most of the reason for putting Wolfguard into your grey hunter squads (the LD boost). You just need to stick Ulik ontop of a ruin/Bastian where he can be seen from across most of the battlefield. Now you can get more special weapons in your GH packs, Thunderwolf units stand a little stronger (heck it even works on single units of Frensian wolves).
His Slayers oath, while not as universally useful as a Wolf Priests oath of war, still is a good boon when he his placed in a Long Fangs pack (using the same tall ruin for cover) and light up T5 or better units of which most armies bring a few.
I can't comment on Bjorn because I've never used him.
Iron Priests are a good unit if your trying to maximize the number of Thunderwolves on the table. You stick him on a thunderwolf, give the unit 4 cyberwolves and throw in a Wolf Lord on thunderwolf to join the unit. You now have a very killy unit of T5 2+ saves.
The Iron Priest doesn't work well on his own, but he can generate a very good escort for a Wolf Lord and has the ability to do some damage on his own. His biggest weakness is against snipers which can call him out and negate his 2+ save with a rending hit.
A Landspeeder is a landspeeder. SW speeders are the same as any other chapters.
Bloodclaws need to go big or go home. You take a full squad and throw in a Wolf Priest. Now either stick the unit in an LRC or give the Wolf Priest the Saga of the Hunter and you now outflank with them with a crazy high chance of coming in on the table edge you choose. The Wolf Priest makes them deadly against a choosen unit type in combat and removes all the shooting restrictions. Your opponent can't ignore them as 15 MEQs that hit like a truck is not something you can ignore. Also the unit is fearless until the Wolf Priest dies, that means the unit has to be delt with to the man. To help keep the WP alive through challenges, also take a WG in the unit as well and just use him for all of the challenges.
Like I said, the units your asking about are not plug and play, but they do bring a lot to the table with some planning. Just because they don't show up in Net lists, doesn't mean they don't have their place.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/20 22:03:33
See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:

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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/20 22:34:46
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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Jayden63 wrote:I'm going to disagree at lot with Griddlelol.
The units your interested in are perfectly good units, they just do not have the plug and play ability of the others. But with a little forethought, they can work well.
Ulrik brings a lot to the table, just not in places where you would think. His mentor ability is pretty cool when placed on a model that can really take use of it. Say the Thunderhammer wielding Thunderwolf model. Now the guy is WS5 and is now hitting on a 3+ instead of a 4+ against most common enemies.
The wolfhelm of russ can be very useful as you have now removed most of the reason for putting Wolfguard into your grey hunter squads (the LD boost). You just need to stick Ulik ontop of a ruin/Bastian where he can be seen from across most of the battlefield. Now you can get more special weapons in your GH packs, Thunderwolf units stand a little stronger (heck it even works on single units of Frensian wolves).
His Slayers oath, while not as universally useful as a Wolf Priests oath of war, still is a good boon when he his placed in a Long Fangs pack (using the same tall ruin for cover) and light up T5 or better units of which most armies bring a few.
I can't comment on Bjorn because I've never used him.
Iron Priests are a good unit if your trying to maximize the number of Thunderwolves on the table. You stick him on a thunderwolf, give the unit 4 cyberwolves and throw in a Wolf Lord on thunderwolf to join the unit. You now have a very killy unit of T5 2+ saves.
The Iron Priest doesn't work well on his own, but he can generate a very good escort for a Wolf Lord and has the ability to do some damage on his own. His biggest weakness is against snipers which can call him out and negate his 2+ save with a rending hit.
A Landspeeder is a landspeeder. SW speeders are the same as any other chapters.
Bloodclaws need to go big or go home. You take a full squad and throw in a Wolf Priest. Now either stick the unit in an LRC or give the Wolf Priest the Saga of the Hunter and you now outflank with them with a crazy high chance of coming in on the table edge you choose. The Wolf Priest makes them deadly against a choosen unit type in combat and removes all the shooting restrictions. Your opponent can't ignore them as 15 MEQs that hit like a truck is not something you can ignore. Also the unit is fearless until the Wolf Priest dies, that means the unit has to be delt with to the man. To help keep the WP alive through challenges, also take a WG in the unit as well and just use him for all of the challenges.
Like I said, the units your asking about are not plug and play, but they do bring a lot to the table with some planning. Just because they don't show up in Net lists, doesn't mean they don't have their place.
Well said!
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Click the images to see my armies!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 00:04:51
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
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Ulrik is terrible. 180pts is not worth having 1 model hitting on a 3+, especially when his other abilities are far worse than what you'd get out of a regular Wolf Priest.
I haven't used Bjorn this edition, but from the look of things, he's way to damn expensive. He shouldn't get in combat (not to mention that he almost certainly won't reach it due to his speed), so you're paying 270pts for 1 heavy weapon shot per turn. He might be good on the 1/6 chance you come up with Scorelord.
Iron Priests are basically Techmarines (read: pretty terrible). On a Thunderwolf with a maximum escort of Cyberwolves they're ok, but if he's sniped (and he only has 1 wound), then the entire unit is gone. Sadly, not worth wasting your time with (which sucks, because I did a great job painting mine up).
Landspeeders are underrated this edition, people say they're awful but they're pretty good for fast, mobile shooting - something Wolves don't pack in abundance. You can do worse with 60-100pts.
Blood Claws can only really justify their existence in a large unit (10-15, preferably 15) with a Wolf Priest in a Crusader. The main problem though is that they NEED to get the charge and they NEED to wipe out or cripple their target on the charge, because off the charge they are horrible. At the same cost as Grey Hunters, there's no real reason to take Blood Claws unless you're intentionally looking to gimp yourself.
Skyclaws are actually ok though. They're fairly inexpensive for a unit of 10 and they can take a Wulfen, and they aren't competing to justify their existence with Grey Hunters. They're a decent counter-attack unit sneaking up behind armour.
I've only used Swiftclaws once, but they have the same problems as Blood Claws in close combat. They need to wipe out a unit on the charge or they're going to be tarpitted, and seeing that they're more expensive and have smaller unit sizes, this is unlikely for Swiftclaws. You *could* use them as a shooty unit, but they're not really ideal for that. Personally, I don't see a whole lot of use for Swiftclaws aside from some late-game contesting and harassment.
I kind of like Fenrisian Wolves. Running a Canis army with 4 units of 15 Fenrisian Wolves + Cyberwolf and lots of TWC is a silly, but fun army to play (on VASSAL anyway...). Otherwise, a full unit of Wolves + Cyberwolf are cheap and fast and can really help harass your enemy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 00:30:25
Subject: Re:Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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Ulric: I would not call him terrible, but he is not good either. If I knew I was taking on a Nidzilla List I might be willing to take him.
Björn: He is still viable, but not with the Assault Cannon unless you can give your opponent something else to shoot at. The Plasma Cannon is a great choice as it has just about a 1” scatter on overage and his BS-6 makes his chance of Getting Hot worth the risk.
Iron Priest: I have done ok with them, they just need a bodyguard, a Wolf guard Battle Leader with a Storm Shield and two Wolves can do this. They are great for taking down MC's and Vehicles.
Land Speeders: I use 3 in a “Long Bow” configuration, Heavy Bolter and Typhoon Missile Launcher. They can wreck AV-11 List Quickly and also do well vs. Hordes
Blood Claws: 15 man Packs lead by a Wolf Priest is the only way to go. I generally don’t a LRC, I just foot slog them with an attached Wolf Guard Pack Leader if I can. Though I am thinking of taking Loki some time to give me three characters for Challenge proposes.
Swiftclaws and Skyclaws: They are great for Surgical Strikes. I have only one problem with them, some stupid Dread keeps Assaulting them when they are set up for softer targets. My planed use is to use them to soften up large units or HQs for something else to take them out.
Fenrisian Wolves: Just a Barking good time and can make good Tarpits. I hat though about taking a Pack lead by a Wolf Guard Battle Leader or Wolf Priest for Outflanking Purposes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 00:51:17
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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I have a list that's designed to be very 'down your throat' that utilizes Sky Claws. They're a little squishy but can be devestating. If enough of them last, they'd ok for contesting or clearing objectives.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 19:18:13
Subject: Re:Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Speedy Swiftclaw Biker
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I use Bjorn regularly. I love the hell out of him! His Ancient Tactician is great for alpha striking lists like mine where going first is important! Also, my wolves move fast, and his BS 6 Plasma Cannon is precise enough not scatter on top of my own guys! I sit him back with my long fangs to protect my back lines from outflankers and deepstrikers, as well as giving my long fangs rerollable leadership with his saga of majesty. A lot of people target my long fangs like that turn 2 and later, once most of my army is on the other side of the board, so Bjorn marches in and crunches them fast!
I also use land speeders regularly too! They are fast moving fire platforms that can deepstrike should you choose. A heavy flamer and a multimelta are a cheap and cheerful 70 points of fun! Also when they deepstrike they get their jink save because they count as having moved!!! They may not last long, so keep them out of LoS if your opponent goes first. They are a very easy first blood!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 00:04:51
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge
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If you want to have fun, try a 14 man unit with Ragnar and a wolf priest. If you hit a relatively soft target, Ragnar will start accumulating some massive bonuses. Blob guard squads are still a thing in my area. It's soooo funny to see a 40 man unit wiped out in time for the next unit blob squad to get pulled into the fray.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 02:47:24
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Wraith
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I say steer clear of anything with "Blood" in the name. You're paying usually the exact same cost (or more now, compared to Chaos Marines and Dark Angels?) for a terrible biker that need a babysitter.
Assault marines were bad in 5E and continue that tradition now in 6E. You're asking me to swallow crappier versions of them? No.
Blood Claws and Grey Hunters are the same points cost... for the increase in size, you have one vehicle option, which will be taking away from better vehicle options (or you took it as a WG dedicated transport... in that case... wat....?) or LONG FANGS.
Grey Hunters get the Wolf Standard, a 10 point upgrade sure to make them better than Blargh Claws. You get to re-roll all 1s in an assault phase including:
Overwatch to Hit
Overwatch to Wound
Mark of the Wulfen Assault Dice
Rolls to Hit
Rolls to Wound
Armor/Invuln Saves
For 10 points. Yea, guess who's the better squad?
The thought of using Urlik as an offset to lower Grey Hunter leadership?... I can kind of like that, but you gotta value that versus the offset of taking wolf guard (how many GH are you running? TCav without a lord? etc.)
Bjorn is funny as crap, but a massive point sink of failure. I made my own custom model because thematically, he's AWESOME.
Wolf Priests don't bolster ruins... I guess they hate their Long Fang buddies. And are more expensive, to boot. Just say NO.
Land Speeders are a taste thing. I hate 'em.
Lastly,... I wish Logan was as good as Draigo. :(
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/22 02:47:50
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 04:08:03
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight
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I will always vouch for Speeders. They're easily the best fast attack choice in the SW codex for their points, and they're definitely tournament viable. Get at least two and either load them up with MM/HF and deep strike-em separately or squadron them up with typhoons and go long range.
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Space Wolves: 3770
Orks: 3000
Chaos Daemons: 1750
Warriors of Chaos: 2000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 04:14:58
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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Most of are not saying Grey Hunters are the same as Blood Claws. Anybody with any sense will agree, but Blood Claws can do something Grey Hunters Cannot, that is Tar-Pit and “Break” Hordes.
I am one of the first to tell people they should trade out Blood Claws for Grey Hunters for most Jobs. However if you are facing a 30 model Ork Boys Mob, Blood Claws are great for that job. You are looking at around 40-60 Attacks that hit on a 4+ and with a Wolf Priest you can Re-Roll 1s with those attacks and Wounds. Sure will loose some with Overwatch. With some good rolls you have the possibility of wrecking that mob and catching them with a Sweeping Advance.
Even when receiving a charge, with Counter-Attack and Re-Rolling 1’s with Overwatch, it will take a few Assault Phases for it to be resolved.
What they do well when, repeat When they have a Wolf Priest Attached to them.
Hold Objectives vs. Infantry
Take Objectives from Infantry and AV 10-12 Vehicles.
I would never suggest taking them on a “Competitive” List, But if you are looking for a day of just having fun, I suggest using them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 04:23:45
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. George, UT
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Anpu42 wrote:
I would never suggest taking them on a “Competitive” List, But if you are looking for a day of just having fun, I suggest using them.
This makes me laugh. To start with there are no real "bad" units in the SW codex. if you ran nothing but the "un-competitive" units in the SW codex, your still having a good chance of winning because at the end of the day your still an MEQ with a hell of a lot of cool special rules and codex synergy and even the "bad" units have enough special weapons/skills/rules to make them useful as long as you understand the army that you have created.
Bloodclaws can easily find a place in a competitive list, you just need to know what your doing with them and choose their targets approperately. Just because its not plug and play, doesn't suddenly make it bad.
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See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:

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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 04:46:39
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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Jayden63 wrote:Bloodclaws can easily find a place in a competitive list, you just need to know what your doing with them and choose their targets appropriately. Just because its not plug and play, doesn't suddenly make it bad.
This the main reason I don’t suggest them on “Competitive” list, mostly become they take a little practice to learn how to use them. If someone had them in a list here are the reasons I would suggest not using them:
1. They are shoving 9-10 of them in a Drop Pod or Rhino, that is a job for Grey Hunters.
2. Taking a full 15, a Flamer to get the free Melta-Gun or Plasma-Gun. [I have seen this]
3. It is a low model troop list and they look “Tacked On”.
My actual mantra with them is: If you are going to use Blood Claws of any kind in your army, you need to build your list around them, do not take them just because you want to.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/22 04:48:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 07:02:00
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Thanks for all the replies and all the info! I normaly run 3 full groups of Grey Hunters (Normaly used twin melta in the groups) Aswell as either 1 group of Longfangs with 5 Missile Launchers Or 2 groups of Longfangs with 3 Missile Launchers and 2 Lascannons. And the rest of the army list varies, I often take a Wolf guard in terminator for all five groups too..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 12:39:59
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Wraith
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I for one will state that I think "Blood" anything is bad.
You're paying a mandatory tax on them so they aren't "Derp-strong," you cannot give them anti-tank or heavy infantry weapons and expect them to do .... anything? So basically flamers and punching stuff.
Grey Hunters still do both better. With the Ork example, I'll do more damage shooting, backing up, possibly denying a charge, rapid firing, popping the standard, better overwatching, Counter Attack, and better hits first (because you are using terrain to the slow the boys... right?... you should be).
The only benefit to Blood Claws is a 15 man squad. If we had 12 man drop pods, I'd say awesome, but we don't. So you're either foot slogging them (peace out when the Heldrakes arrive, dudes) or Land Raidering them. And if you put Blood Claws in a raider for anything other than "lulz"... yea, no.
Blood Claws, Skyclaws, Swiftclaws are all bad units. They purposely made them bad with the feeling of "want these units? Play Dark Angeles, Blood Angels, Space Marines, etc." It's a shame, but that's also why you see everyone and their brother load up on Grey Hunters.
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Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 14:16:53
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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Well I think we have two camps on Blood Claws.
Camp A: We Love them and think they are a viable unit.
Camp B: We Hate them, they are junk.
I think the only thing I can say is “Don’t Knock Them Until You Try Them”.
This discussion has got me to think about running a Blood Claw List week end rather than giving the “Shiny New” Tau Codex. I have forgotten how much fun they are.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 15:00:12
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
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TheKbob wrote:I for one will state that I think "Blood" anything is bad.
You're paying a mandatory tax on them so they aren't "Derp-strong," you cannot give them anti-tank or heavy infantry weapons and expect them to do .... anything? So basically flamers and punching stuff.
Grey Hunters still do both better. With the Ork example, I'll do more damage shooting, backing up, possibly denying a charge, rapid firing, popping the standard, better overwatching, Counter Attack, and better hits first (because you are using terrain to the slow the boys... right?... you should be).
The only benefit to Blood Claws is a 15 man squad. If we had 12 man drop pods, I'd say awesome, but we don't. So you're either foot slogging them (peace out when the Heldrakes arrive, dudes) or Land Raidering them. And if you put Blood Claws in a raider for anything other than "lulz"... yea, no.
Blood Claws, Skyclaws, Swiftclaws are all bad units. They purposely made them bad with the feeling of "want these units? Play Dark Angeles, Blood Angels, Space Marines, etc." It's a shame, but that's also why you see everyone and their brother load up on Grey Hunters.
Anpu42 wrote:Well I think we have two camps on Blood Claws.
Camp A: We Love them and think they are a viable unit.
Camp B: We Hate them, they are junk.
I think the only thing I can say is “Don’t Knock Them Until You Try Them”.
This discussion has got me to think about running a Blood Claw List week end rather than giving the “Shiny New” Tau Codex. I have forgotten how much fun they are.
I agree with Thekbob. If the Blood Claws don't wipe out the Ork mob on the charge (which they probably won't - mathhammer says Orks lose ~12 Boyz), then they're going to be stuck fighting the remaining Boyz for a long time because they severely lack offensive output off the charge. There's also the point that, yeah, 15 Blood Claws are going to do better vs an Ork mob than 10 Grey Hunters, if only because of numbers. However, Grey Hunters also get the bonuses of Mark of the Wulfen and Wolf Standards, and so can actually pull of comparable damage numbers in the end (not taking into account MotW and WS, that's around 8 dead Boyz). This is kind of irrelevant though, because Grey Hunters have the better option of just choosing to rapid fire at the Orks and then counter-attack them when they try to charge, without losing anything in the process (unlike Blood Claws).
Blood Claws aren't a *useless* unit, they're just completely overshadowed by Grey Hunters to such a degree that they're not even worth taking. There needs to be a point differential to even consider bringing Blood Claws (say, 13pts per Blood Claw and 16pts per Grey Hunter).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 15:20:56
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. George, UT
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Don't forget that because the BC have a wolf Priest, they can shoot. Thats 15 bolt pistol shots which drop another 5 orks before charging.
The wolf priest challenges out the nob - so 60 attacks - 32.5 hits - 14.7 unsaved wounds. Add in the 5 dead from shooting and that leaves 11.7 orks to swing back. Killing 2.5 bloodclaws.
So technically the orks are no longer fearless, that means they are now need snake eyes to not run (the nob died in the challenge - a wolf priest with powermaul will see to that. Good chance for sweeping too.
Also for the landraider comment. Why not take a LR. S10 is going by-by for a lot of army lists and I suspect a large number of lists to come. A LRC can still do its job and is the ultimate protection against Mr. Helldrake.
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See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:

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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 16:41:13
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm
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Andilus Greatsword wrote:Blood Claws aren't a *useless* unit, they're just completely overshadowed by Grey Hunters to such a degree that they're not even worth taking. There needs to be a point differential to even consider bringing Blood Claws (say, 13pts per Blood Claw and 16pts per Grey Hunter).
I agree completely
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 17:00:13
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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I don't think anyone says blood claws are "garbage" or "terrible" pretty much everyone agrees that Grey Hunters are just better. They're good at everything, while blood claws are decent at one thing, and require 15 models + an HQ unit to be decent.
I've tried them untold number of times because I want to like them, but they are so mediocre.
I'm warming to swiftclaws. They're better at dealing with those rear guard units than almost anything else due to their speed and relentless. With TWC they always get ignored and they always make an impact on turn 2. When charging certain things, I really don't care if they get bogged down. With T5 they are great at preventing guard blobs from doing anything. The best use I've had for them is jumping into combat with a 30man guard blob on turn 4 and lasting until the end of turn 6, which stopped that blob from scoring.
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Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 17:30:55
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
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Jayden63 wrote:Don't forget that because the BC have a wolf Priest, they can shoot. Thats 15 bolt pistol shots which drop another 5 orks before charging.
The wolf priest challenges out the nob - so 60 attacks - 32.5 hits - 14.7 unsaved wounds. Add in the 5 dead from shooting and that leaves 11.7 orks to swing back. Killing 2.5 bloodclaws.
So technically the orks are no longer fearless, that means they are now need snake eyes to not run (the nob died in the challenge - a wolf priest with powermaul will see to that. Good chance for sweeping too.
Also for the landraider comment. Why not take a LR. S10 is going by-by for a lot of army lists and I suspect a large number of lists to come. A LRC can still do its job and is the ultimate protection against Mr. Helldrake.
With the shooting wounds, that is assuming that the Orks don't have cover from a KFF or something, and that no Blood Claws die on the charge.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 17:53:03
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I would like to get some Bikes for my space wolves so I wonder, Would you recomend SwiftClaws, Vanilla Marine bikes or Dark Angel bikes?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 18:04:39
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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If I wanted to go to a biker army, I'd take Raven Wing and if you really want, with space wolf allies. The swiftclaws are decent, but if you want a biker army, there's no point in going anything other than RW.
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Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 18:36:47
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I dont want another army, I just want some nice bikes in my Space Wolf army
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 20:24:53
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. George, UT
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Ally with DE and take some reavers. Lol. A squad of ten is so much fun. But on a more serious note, DA bikes work well if you can take a lot of them, but as a one off type unit you may not get much out of them. SM can you attack bikes if you need that extra mult-melta. Swiftclaws give you a strong hammer unit that are wonderful shock units.
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See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:

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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/23 00:18:29
Subject: Space Wolves, Ulrik, Bjorn, Iron Priests, Wolves and more, Are they good?
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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Merelin, are you talking about how to add nice bikes in terms of looks, or via allies?
Ravenwing are the mechanized specialists of DA and would make decent allies, even if they are only Allies of Convenience. I doubt you'll be running them in close proximity to much of the rest of your SW force, if so it may be worth looking at the benefits vs negatives in using them over Swift Claws.
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