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 jy2 wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:
I really do not like that farsight bomb. It has no target locks so you have to focus your whole unit at one target, It has no vector thrusts so it can't get out of combat, and the weapons seem a little off. If that unit had vector thrusts it could have hit and run and probably killed the other soul grinder. I also felt like it was placed in an odd area where three units could assault it. I feel if the far sight unit could have been properly utilized tau would have had more of a chance.

I believe his unit does have target locks because he was firing at 3 different units (both grinders and 1 unit of horrors). Yeah, vector-thrusts would definitely be a good idea for the unit. Just give it to one of the body guards.

As for putting it in a "odd" place, I don't think that could be avoided given that he was trying to kill both of my soulgrinders. He had a good plan. Fusions to 1 grinder. S7 to the rear of the other grinder, both of whom he put a lot of markerlights on. He was actually expecting to kill both and to have to deal with just my DP. He also didn't see my seeker coming to mess up his Overwatch plans as well.

I'm not sure how else he could have played his Farsight bomb. It was his best chance at taking out my soulgrinders, though personally, I wouldn't run such a large unit (actually, personally, I wouldn't even go with Farsight at all).

IMO you really need to go all-out with the farsight bomb for it to work properly.
He should have added a buffing suit to the unit - give it re-rolls to hit, ignore cover, enemy weapons get hot, tank hunter or monster hunter or counterattack, and hit+run. Also taking gun drones over so many shield drones would have been advisable - you don't really care that much if you lose them so long as you're not losing crisis suits, and you really only want to end up facing 2 units after you land rather than 3. The unit costs an extra 100pts but it suddenly becomes twice as deadly and infinitely more durable.

The close combat in farsights unit shows again why you need a champion extra in, deny the challenge, then Farsight can put the hurt on the walker or the unit...

The deamons list is indeed better than first glanced at altough i don't think it is a top contender.

My bad, people.

Farsight's unit actually comes with 8 gun drones, not shield drones.

LValx wrote:
Yeah, at too high a cost. The defensive abilities arent that great unless you add the shrouding IC and add a Libby with Gate. Then you can defend a little better by deep striking around, then your spending a ridiculous amount on it though!

Yeesh....making an already expensive unit even that much more expensive. I'll pass.

 Dezstiny wrote:
I honestly Liked the Tau's player's list just some major key rolls went totally out of his favor( Not dropping both those Soul Grinders hurt). I really didn't care for the Riptides in this opening game of my first time seeing them but it's early so ehhh.

Simply put though not to take away from Jy2 because he's obviously a great general and brings a hard list; the Cheese Bird of Change has to be one of the best characters in the game right now as when there are no psychic hindering units on the field he's down right OP when the dice are hot and the powers are good. He just goes straight up God mode and says "I see the future" hence I save everything and I kill everything. I think that he may have just beat out the top spot against the Flyrant for FMC with deathspitters given his resiliency and overall buffs he gives to other units.

@ Jy2
I gotta say that in the games you've posted so far and the daemon players I've played the polygryph has yet to really do anything xD should probably take the one that makes the daemon prince more beasty in combat. Another Thing; although not as fast 15 seekers of slaanesh have you tried running a large group of 20 bloodletters and giving them the 2++ and seeing how much carnage they can dish out? If not you should try it simply put if you want a gun magnet that is the biggest gun magnet you can probably get for 200 points and still be so resilient and then affective in crashing lines. Ideally you would deepstrike them next to a unit that has an icon so that they don't scatter so you can keep them unmolested but I'm sure running them down field would still draw a rediculous amount of fire, did I mention 200 points for 20 guys with ap3 weapons and a 2++ meaning you got roughly 400 points to throw out to something you wish you had but don't have like more scoring units <

His list is actually pretty good. I'd just drop a few guys and drones from Farsight's unit and perhaps 2 pathfinders from each unit. In their place, I'd bring in another troop choice or a railhead. Or drop Farsight, his bodyguards and some pathfinders for a Commander, some crisis suits, a railhead and 1 more troop. Riptides are good and versatile enough so that I'd include 2 in my Tau army. They are honestly really good IMO.

Yeah, I think Big Bird is THE BEST MC in the daemon codex and definitely the most balanced. He can be good in assault and is an excellent shooter. Combined with his mobility and psychic powers, I agree that the LoC may have overtaken the flyrant as arguably the best FMC in the game.

The Portaglyph has been wildly inconsistent in my games. I've had a game where it's spawned troops every single turn. Then I've had a game where it didn't spawn a single unit. Even in this game, it spawned troops in the very first turn and then stopped spawning the next 3 turns. And against the more experienced general, they will always try to take out the Portaglyph first. But taking it gives me some peace of mind, especially in this list with only 2 troops.

I'm not a big fan of bloodletters, even a buffed up unit with 2++. They are much too slow for my taste. I'd rather use the buffs for seekers or even the flesh hounds instead.

bogalubov wrote:

That seems to be the general problem with deep strike units. By putting a unit (especially one that's so expensive) in reserve, you're forgoing a round or two of shooting and field presence. The surprise of showing up anywhere the board is usually not worth it for that trade.

Yeah. That's one of the reasons why I prefer to start my shooty units on the table, so that they can contribute right away on Turn 1.

Trasvi wrote:

IMO you really need to go all-out with the farsight bomb for it to work properly.
He should have added a buffing suit to the unit - give it re-rolls to hit, ignore cover, enemy weapons get hot, tank hunter or monster hunter or counterattack, and hit+run. Also taking gun drones over so many shield drones would have been advisable - you don't really care that much if you lose them so long as you're not losing crisis suits, and you really only want to end up facing 2 units after you land rather than 3. The unit costs an extra 100pts but it suddenly becomes twice as deadly and infinitely more durable.

My bad....Farsight's unit were equipped with gun drones, not shield drones.

Some of the buffs for Farsight's unit are pretty cheap. However, I'd still try to refrain from adding another IC to the unit. I think that markerlights is all you really need to make their shooting effective.

 Valek wrote:
The close combat in farsights unit shows again why you need a champion extra in, deny the challenge, then Farsight can put the hurt on the walker or the unit...

The deamons list is indeed better than first glanced at altough i don't think it is a top contender.

No, it's not a top contender. But it's a fun build that I'm finding to synergize and work well together. It's also more balanced than some of the other daemon armies in that it is fast, can assault and can shoot as well.

 jy2 wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The problem with vector thrusters for Tau is their low initiative... Still it's better than nothing. I really think the Farsight bomb was poorly played.

50/50 to get out of combat for only 5-pts?!? Hell yeah! It's a no-brainer.

But you're also going to need the Puretide Engram Neurochip (PEN) to give them stubborn so that they don't get swept before they can get out of combat.

Farsight was alive after the first round of combat so you would have taken the initiative test at 5, so it would have been 5 points for a 83% chance of getting out of combat. I personally like those odds. I also agree with the pen, if they had taken it both soul grinders would have probably fallen with rerolls to pen.

I really don't like farsight. as others have said, too many points for a unit that dies too fast. I do however love shadowsun. Infiltrate is a probably a better ability than deep strike and the unit is more survivable for sure.

Actually the Daemon Prince couldn't have got a cover save from the Riptide's shooting as only the base of a ruin counts as area terrain and the DP was on the first floor.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Actually the Daemon Prince couldn't have got a cover save from the Riptide's shooting as only the base of a ruin counts as area terrain and the DP was on the first floor.

Good catch, I thought that was the case as well.

Ironically He was probably better off not over watching the seeker and using her to help combat res lol.

Pure tau is really still a glass canon, they shoot well with volume fire but get raped once the gap is bridged and the enemy closes. Funny enough, mechvet IG, old school mech eldar, DP marines and battle wagon orks (all old lists) would give new tau serious issues.

I think space marines as allies or primary really, work best with the new tau. The shenanigans that can be pulled with the USR and battle brothers has barely been touched on.

Did the Farsight bomb not jump 2d6 away after failing to kill the second Soulgrinder?

I know a Tau opponent who often DS in, shoots, then jumps behind terrain.

Maybe I just couldn't tell from the pics.

LValx wrote:
Saw that coming from 2 miles away. Farsight bomb with no ATSKNF or HnR is a bad idea.

In the old book you always put Failsafe Detonator for Farsight unit, because if you lost combat and were threatened by Sweeping Advance, you just blew up one suit and didn't lose rest of the unit. However, new Failsafe doesn't do that.

 lambsandlions wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The problem with vector thrusters for Tau is their low initiative... Still it's better than nothing. I really think the Farsight bomb was poorly played.

50/50 to get out of combat for only 5-pts?!? Hell yeah! It's a no-brainer.

But you're also going to need the Puretide Engram Neurochip (PEN) to give them stubborn so that they don't get swept before they can get out of combat.

Farsight was alive after the first round of combat so you would have taken the initiative test at 5, so it would have been 5 points for a 83% chance of getting out of combat. I personally like those odds. I also agree with the pen, if they had taken it both soul grinders would have probably fallen with rerolls to pen.

I really don't like farsight. as others have said, too many points for a unit that dies too fast. I do however love shadowsun. Infiltrate is a probably a better ability than deep strike and the unit is more survivable for sure.

Now I may be wrong, but wouldn't you be testing Initiative on the model who has the Vectored Retro-thrusters? Farsight doesn't have it so it would be on one of his bodyguards, who is I3. Maybe a question for YMDC.

Also, I'm not sure they can use the PEN on the turn they come in, since at the beginning of the Movement phase, they are still in reserves. But it could be usuable in subsequent turns. Maybe another one for the FAQ's?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Actually the Daemon Prince couldn't have got a cover save from the Riptide's shooting as only the base of a ruin counts as area terrain and the DP was on the first floor.

In that case, no harm no foul. Thanks for the heads up.

Though in our area, we usually play the whole thing as area terrain. I guess you can call it a house-rule here.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Good catch, I thought that was the case as well.

Ironically He was probably better off not over watching the seeker and using her to help combat res lol.

Pure tau is really still a glass canon, they shoot well with volume fire but get raped once the gap is bridged and the enemy closes. Funny enough, mechvet IG, old school mech eldar, DP marines and battle wagon orks (all old lists) would give new tau serious issues.

I think space marines as allies or primary really, work best with the new tau. The shenanigans that can be pulled with the USR and battle brothers has barely been touched on.

It probably wouldn't have mattered (about the seeker) because my grinder killed 2-3 drones.

Yeah, some of their weaknesses include very fast assault armies, AV12-spam and armies with a large amount of blast templates. I can especially see triple-manticore IG putting the hurt on this army. But time will tell.

I like orks with Tau also.

King Pyrrhus wrote:
Did the Farsight bomb not jump 2d6 away after failing to kill the second Soulgrinder?

I know a Tau opponent who often DS in, shoots, then jumps behind terrain.

Maybe I just couldn't tell from the pics.

Yeah he did. My opponent just rolled low for his assault jump, getting maybe 3 or 4".

JSJ doesn't work if there are no terrain around....which is exactly how I positioned my grinders - away from terrain where he can JSJ over.

Backfire wrote:

LValx wrote:
Saw that coming from 2 miles away. Farsight bomb with no ATSKNF or HnR is a bad idea.

In the old book you always put Failsafe Detonator for Farsight unit, because if you lost combat and were threatened by Sweeping Advance, you just blew up one suit and didn't lose rest of the unit. However, new Failsafe doesn't do that.

H&R is a good and much cheaper alternative, although you do run the risk of getting swept before you made it out of combat.

Yeah, I can only see the farsight bomb working if they've got a SM Librarian with them with gate/Null Zone, alongside someone in the unit having the PEN, another one having the TL+NoCover stuff, and one more having the Hit&Run item. Then it's ATSKNF, tank/monster hunterin', Hit'n'runnin',No Scatter repeated DSin', Twin-Linked + Ignores cover and forces rerolls to invulns, with a bunch of plasma and melta.

 Thariinye wrote:
Yeah, I can only see the farsight bomb working if they've got a SM Librarian with them with gate/Null Zone, alongside someone in the unit having the PEN, another one having the TL+NoCover stuff, and one more having the Hit&Run item. Then it's ATSKNF, tank/monster hunterin', Hit'n'runnin',No Scatter repeated DSin', Twin-Linked + Ignores cover and forces rerolls to invulns, with a bunch of plasma and melta.

Yea that's much stronger, again why I think Marines bring the most value to tau as that libby isn't expensive and bring much to the unit.

While we are at it, a cheap ROW farseer with prescience really helps in this match as well. May as well take advantage of the most broken piece of wargear ever while it lasts

is anyone gonna ask about the turtle there?

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
is anyone gonna ask about the turtle there?

Of course not. It's obvious!

 Thariinye wrote:
Yeah, I can only see the farsight bomb working if they've got a SM Librarian with them with gate/Null Zone, alongside someone in the unit having the PEN, another one having the TL+NoCover stuff, and one more having the Hit&Run item. Then it's ATSKNF, tank/monster hunterin', Hit'n'runnin',No Scatter repeated DSin', Twin-Linked + Ignores cover and forces rerolls to invulns, with a bunch of plasma and melta.

With the libbie there, you actually don't need the PEN or H&R (well, you could use the PEN for the non-stubborn abilities).

However, this is still not a combo that I would use. I'm a purist and would much rather play Tau without allies.....

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Thariinye wrote:
Yeah, I can only see the farsight bomb working if they've got a SM Librarian with them with gate/Null Zone, alongside someone in the unit having the PEN, another one having the TL+NoCover stuff, and one more having the Hit&Run item. Then it's ATSKNF, tank/monster hunterin', Hit'n'runnin',No Scatter repeated DSin', Twin-Linked + Ignores cover and forces rerolls to invulns, with a bunch of plasma and melta.

Yea that's much stronger, again why I think Marines bring the most value to tau as that libby isn't expensive and bring much to the unit.

While we are at it, a cheap ROW farseer with prescience really helps in this match as well. May as well take advantage of the most broken piece of wargear ever while it lasts

....except, of course, for that gosh-broken ROW jetseer+jetbike. He's the only ally I would use in my Tau army.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
is anyone gonna ask about the turtle there?

I use him as my Portaglyph.

 jy2 wrote:
The problem with vector thrusters for Tau is their low initiative... Still it's better than nothing. I really think the Farsight bomb was poorly played.

50/50 to get out of combat for only 5-pts?!? Hell yeah! It's a no-brainer.

But you're also going to need the Puretide Engram Neurochip (PEN) to give them stubborn so that they don't get swept before they can get out of combat.
Farsight was alive after the first round of combat so you would have taken the initiative test at 5, so it would have been 5 points for a 83% chance of getting out of combat. I personally like those odds. I also agree with the pen, if they had taken it both soul grinders would have probably fallen with rerolls to pen.

I really don't like farsight. as others have said, too many points for a unit that dies too fast. I do however love shadowsun. Infiltrate is a probably a better ability than deep strike and the unit is more survivable for sure.

I hope this was a lesson to your opponent about using Heavy Burst Cannons. They're terrible without the nova-charge, and you can always use nova-charge on it. Ion Accelerators don't care.