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 Scipio Africanus wrote:
DA faq is this?

Well said.

andystache wrote:

 VardenV2 wrote:
In addition to the sergeant shenanigans, would that also mean that, like it is now, an apothecary cannot take a TH/SS? It says that it must replace the power fist with the narthecium and then it says that any model may replace the power fist and SB with a TH/SS. I would assume that you cannot have an apothecary with a TH/SS now too, as the previous entry said "May replace all weapons with a TH/SS." Not sure a narthecium is considered a weapon so I would imagine this actually hurts the apothecary option too.

But I may be wrong.

And on the topic of the sgt. I imagine that this is, once again, a rules oversight. Effectively we have gained CMLs on out TH/SS but then lost a viable challenge option for our sergeants... I would prefer it the old way if this is true, as the CML guy usually just hangs in the back anyway. In a friendly game I can't imagine anyone being opposed to you keeping your sgts with their TH/SS because that rule is written poorly... again... and makes no logical sense.

- VardenV2

But it's not. This brings the Termies into line with every other unit in the Codex. Troopers have different options than their Sgt in every case. The Apothocary always gives up a weapon, whether PA, bike, or Termie the Narth isn't a weapon and replaces one of your weapons. This isn't how it used to be, but this is a new codex and new edition. If your Apoth doesn't have a Narth then you don't have an Apoth so no FnP for you. "Viable challenge option" when did a model with a 2+/5++ AP3 attack at I4 become an unviable challenge option? Just because you don't like the change doesn't mean it's poorly written, it's just not written in the way that you want it done. As I've said before if you *really* need a challenge taker in your DW squad suit up a Int-Chap or a Libby, you can still have your TH/SS and now you have better Init and more Wounds

In every other codex it's the Sargeants who can take different weapon loadouts, not the bog standard dudes.

Interesting note there Blaggard, but consider this, the only options available to an HQ in Termie (except Big B) are Special Issue and Terminator weapons. Sgt's never get Special Issue and the only option in Terminator weapons is a combi weapon. So the DW Sgt is still in line with the established codex in terms of equipment. If you think of the alternate CC weapons in a DW squad as the equivalent of special weapons to a PA squad then everything falls into place.

But our PA sargeants can take melee weapons. The DW sargeant cannot choose to take anything. Although looking at the rules that seems to have been the case even before the FAQ.

 Azrell wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
DA faq is this?

Well said.

Yep. I kept reading the thread title as this.

Also, since DWA counts toward reserves, can we infer that this applies to all Termies? Ie. TDA "can always DS" means they count toward your reserve limit, so no GK all reserve armies.

Well a GK all reserve army would auto-lose as they don't have anything on the board Turn 1.

Except Mordrak I guess. Nevermind.

Elric - no, because pre=6th edition TDA specifically allow you to ALWAYS start in reserve. If you are prevented from starting in reserve you have broken this rule, and must have a more specific rule stating so, and this more specific rule does not exist - as this answer is ONLY for DWA currently

 Blaggard wrote:
But our PA sargeants can take melee weapons. The DW sargeant cannot choose to take anything. Although looking at the rules that seems to have been the case even before the FAQ.

I saw that too, but that would cause weirdness, like a Termie Sgt using a Chainsword. Even if they added that option you'd have a Sgt with TH/SB as Storm Shields aren't in the armory, they're in specific unit entries. I've always though if you're running you DW as TH/SS why didn't you just buy the DWK, you're giving up the coolest abilities of the DW by removing ranged weapons, but that's just my take on it

All you're doing is removing storm bolters, no the most killy thing. You always had the option of keeping one guy with a PF/SB to swap to a weapon which wasn't a CML.

I didn't say most killy just coolest, that being the ability to shoot a tank with a missile and a squad with storm bolters then charge the squad and TL deep striking. But like I say that's just me and I like my DA to be extra shooty, it's what the Greenwing is known for

You still get to TL the Heavy weapon and charge, which is what counts. The SBs add some wounds but that 3++ and scoring is delicious.
I'll leave shooty termi's to the GK, DA wants to be in melee imo.

See man I gotta stay outta threads with you, you're liable to make me do things like think, and we just can't have that. New test list with Azzie and Vets in a DP with a T2 DWA, maybe even go Cypher Vets with two pistols to make the most of that first round of shooting

I tmakes no sense that the sergeant, most likely the most experienced member of the DW squad, would not be able to take a SS/TH. Especially because many people have already modeled their sgts to have those weapons. To me, the wording was used to clarify that the CML may be used on someone with a TH/SS. In the process of doing so, they accidentally messed up the sergeant's option. There's no reason for the wording in the original print if the intention was to make it so that the DW sgt couldn't take the options. Otherwise they would have written "Any Deathwing terminator may..." from the get go and nothing would have been confusing. But it goes from "any model may replace all weapons" to "any model may replace SB and PF."... so they created another problem and changed the squad dynamics AGAIN without intending to do so I think... sigh...

And yes, a 2+ 5++ terminator with a power sword is good at challenges. But yknow who is WAY BETTER at challenges? A sgt with a TH/SS... aka almost every other terminator sergeant you will fight in close combat.

- VardenV2

 VardenV2 wrote:
I tmakes no sense that the sergeant, most likely the most experienced member of the DW squad, would not be able to take a SS/TH. Especially because many people have already modeled their sgts to have those weapons. To me, the wording was used to clarify that the CML may be used on someone with a TH/SS. In the process of doing so, they accidentally messed up the sergeant's option. There's no reason for the wording in the original print if the intention was to make it so that the DW sgt couldn't take the options. Otherwise they would have written "Any Deathwing terminator may..." from the get go and nothing would have been confusing. But it goes from "any model may replace all weapons" to "any model may replace SB and PF."... so they created another problem and changed the squad dynamics AGAIN without intending to do so I think... sigh...

And yes, a 2+ 5++ terminator with a power sword is good at challenges. But yknow who is WAY BETTER at challenges? A sgt with a TH/SS... aka almost every other terminator sergeant you will fight in close combat.

- VardenV2

Its been obvious from the get go that they just don't give a damn about dark angels. They literally cut and pasted the DA vets from the last codex, and nothing in the codex really has much synergy. Sure a ravenwing biker has a TPH but so what? the nilla codex give you the option of taking those on almost every Sargent in any squad, even scouts! Its almost like they play tested the DAs units without telling the play testers that they were DAs leading them to assume that they would just be more units in the nilla dex, because it has some serious holes that you have to take allies to fill.

Its been obvious from the get go that they just don't give a damn about dark angels. They literally cut and pasted the DA vets from the last codex, and nothing in the codex really has much synergy. Sure a ravenwing biker has a TPH but so what? the nilla codex give you the option of taking those on almost every Sargent in any squad, even scouts! Its almost like they play tested the DAs units without telling the play testers that they were DAs leading them to assume that they would just be more units in the nilla dex, because it has some serious holes that you have to take allies to fill.

This is patently untrue. There's some crap in the codex, but there's crap in every codex. Standards, PFG, and Black Knights make this the strongest Dark Angel codex ever written.

Sure it could be much better in some aspects, but let's not expect too much from GW, really.

+1 to that Asmodai. I think this is the strongest DA codex ever written. Plus I am psyched to be able to add extra B. Knights to my RW command squad. It seemed to small stuck at 3 models.

The thing is Black Knights for 40 points are possibly one of the most points efficient units in the game, for the same cost as a SM Bike with plasma you get Skilled Rider, Hit and Run, Str 5 Rending, and Twin-Linked, and the access to the awesome grenade launcher. There really isn't any point in taking Black Knights for 2 points more when you can get a 5 man command squad instead.

 VardenV2 wrote:
In addition to the sergeant shenanigans, would that also mean that, like it is now, an apothecary cannot take a TH/SS? It says that it must replace the power fist with the narthecium and then it says that any model may replace the power fist and SB with a TH/SS. I would assume that you cannot have an apothecary with a TH/SS now too, as the previous entry said "May replace all weapons with a TH/SS." Not sure a narthecium is considered a weapon so I would imagine this actually hurts the apothecary option too.

But I may be wrong.

You are wrong, the Apothecary already couldn't take a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield because he's not a "Deathwing Terminator" but rather a "Deathwing Apothecary"

Nothing has changed there.

Hey all, very new player here, and this ambiguity is bothering me. How does something like this get cleared up? Wait for the next FAQ? How often are they usually released?

As I'm just starting out, I won't be playing any tournament level games any time soon, so it's probably not that big of a deal anyway. But, even casually, I'd like to know that I'm playing by the correct rules.

Anesthetize wrote:
Hey all, very new player here, and this ambiguity is bothering me. How does something like this get cleared up? Wait for the next FAQ? How often are they usually released?

As I'm just starting out, I won't be playing any tournament level games any time soon, so it's probably not that big of a deal anyway. But, even casually, I'd like to know that I'm playing by the correct rules.

Sometimes never, and you'll find lots of ambiguity in the rules as you go along. This is cleared up. This isn't even nearly as ambiguous as some unFAQ'ed things you'll find.

GW has a terrible record of keeping updates. When it comes to wargear and such, just agree with your opponent to do whatever makes sense.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
The thing is Black Knights for 40 points are possibly one of the most points efficient units in the game, for the same cost as a SM Bike with plasma you get Skilled Rider, Hit and Run, Str 5 Rending, and Twin-Linked, and the access to the awesome grenade launcher. There really isn't any point in taking Black Knights for 2 points more when you can get a 5 man command squad instead.

Exalted. I couldn't agree more.

 Infreak wrote:

whill4 wrote:
I like the PFG FAQ ruling. It seems counter intuitive to me to put a piece of equipment inside a vehicle and it suddenly has a larger area of effect.

I understand why they did that. AV14 with a 4++ is very powerful. Especially since there is a distinct lack of str8+ in armies now that its an infantry based edition. I'd say it even crossed into OP territory, however a Bigmeks KFF works this way. So now we have two similar pieces of wargear that don't work the same while embarked in a vehicle. If any other wargear exists which works similar to these we now have to ask if it will or will not work while embarked in a vehicle. Very sloppy.

Actually, its not sloppy at all, it makes sense. If I recall (and I may be off on this one), all Ork transports are open topped, so it makes sense that a force field generator would work for them. Meanwhile, Marine transports are completely enclosed, so it makes no sense what-so-ever that the field would cover anything outside the transport, but would cover vehicles when PFG is outside.

Now that sensible logic is out of the way, the real motivation for this was a nerf to keep DA LRs from being OP. Lord forbid an army other than Necrons have OP combos (I'm still bitter about the sophoric musk/acquiescence nerf and the constant FAQ buffing of Necrons)

Battlewagons and Looted wagons dont have to be open topped.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

 VardenV2 wrote:
In addition to the sergeant shenanigans, would that also mean that, like it is now, an apothecary cannot take a TH/SS? It says that it must replace the power fist with the narthecium and then it says that any model may replace the power fist and SB with a TH/SS. I would assume that you cannot have an apothecary with a TH/SS now too, as the previous entry said "May replace all weapons with a TH/SS." Not sure a narthecium is considered a weapon so I would imagine this actually hurts the apothecary option too.

But I may be wrong.

You are wrong, the Apothecary already couldn't take a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield because he's not a "Deathwing Terminator" but rather a "Deathwing Apothecary"

Nothing has changed there.

Ok cool, that's what I thought but was jsut making sure. Another question: In the DW section it says something along the lines of "One deathwing terminator may switch out their Storm Bolter for Plasma cannon, Assault cannon, or Heavy flamer." Does this mean that it is possible to give this upgrade to your apothecary, as he still has a storm bolter? Basically you would swap out his weapon for the assault cannon, and then swap out his power fist for the narthecium, renaming him to the apothecary after he has already taken the upgrade. Is that just a loophole or is that a legitimate build? If so, it would be awesome.

- VardenV2

It used to be legitimate. Currently it is not.

 VardenV2 wrote:

Ok cool, that's what I thought but was jsut making sure. Another question: In the DW section it says something along the lines of "One deathwing terminator may switch out their Storm Bolter for Plasma cannon, Assault cannon, or Heavy flamer." Does this mean that it is possible to give this upgrade to your apothecary, as he still has a storm bolter? Basically you would swap out his weapon for the assault cannon, and then swap out his power fist for the narthecium, renaming him to the apothecary after he has already taken the upgrade. Is that just a loophole or is that a legitimate build? If so, it would be awesome.

No you cannot do this. Apotechary is no longer a Deathwing Terminator, so he cannot have upgrades meant for Deathwing Terminators. Just like Dark Eldar Sybarites cannot have heavy or special weapons even though they're upgraded from standard warriors who can. If GW meant to this to be possible, they would have written 'any model' instead of 'Deathwing Terminator'.

Ok, cool thanks for the clarification. I was assuming that the apothecary couldn't take the upgrade, but I was reading last night and it sort of dawned on me that it might be possible. I guess the apothecary will have to have the role of keeping everyone alive as opposed to gunning everyone down haha.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Elric - no, because pre=6th edition TDA specifically allow you to ALWAYS start in reserve. If you are prevented from starting in reserve you have broken this rule, and must have a more specific rule stating so, and this more specific rule does not exist - as this answer is ONLY for DWA currently

I disagree. TDA specifically gives permission to deep strike, not start in reserve. A unit must be in reserve in order to deep strike.

It gives you permission to always Deepstrike. If you try to prevent them going into reserves, in order to deepstrike, have you followed the rule?