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 blood reaper wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

So there is none? Because I see none there.

Uh, the silver knight going corrupt in the Warp?
It might not be Draigo, but if there is a chance that it is him then GKs can be corrupted.

You do know mortal beings can enter the realm of Chaos? And there are other Space marines that are silver.

You've yet to give any hard evidence, and simply relying on one piece that doesn't even say it's a Grey Knight.

But there's a chance, that's all that matters.
If there's a chance for it to happen it could.

 Peregrine wrote:


Of course it does. But their own fluff is in-universe propaganda, and of course the GK would never openly admit to losing members to Chaos. And since "absolutely impossible to fall to Chaos, never happened and never will" is an incredibly stupid idea I think I'm going to go with the more reasonable idea that GK are really resistant to Chaos but can and do get corrupted by it.

The Chaos Daemons Codex says the same. But I'm sure that's just Imperial Propaganda, right?

 Makutsu wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

So there is none? Because I see none there.

Uh, the silver knight going corrupt in the Warp?
It might not be Draigo, but if there is a chance that it is him then GKs can be corrupted.

You do know mortal beings can enter the realm of Chaos? And there are other Space marines that are silver.

You've yet to give any hard evidence, and simply relying on one piece that doesn't even say it's a Grey Knight.

But there's a chance, that's all that matters.
If there's a chance for it to happen it could.

How is their a chance?

Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

Then again, ignoring the arguments of the opposition in favour of simply cherry picking from a vague story shows the nature of the argument you hope to mount.

This thread is full of Fan Fiction.

 Mark1130 wrote:
This thread is full of Fan Fiction.

Anyone want to talk about my KAYOSS Emperor while we're at it?

 blood reaper wrote:
Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

And given the sheer stupidity of those "incorruptible" statements the most reasonable interpretation is that GK are extremely resistant to Chaos but not 100% incorruptible, and the Imperium portrays them as 100% incorruptible for religious and/or propaganda reasons.

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

And given the sheer stupidity of those "incorruptible" statements the most reasonable interpretation is that GK are extremely resistant to Chaos but not 100% incorruptible, and the Imperium portrays them as 100% incorruptible for religious and/or propaganda reasons.

Shame that anyone other than Inquisitors and high ranking officials who encounters the Knights are executed or mind wiped.

I mean, how can you have propaganda about an organisation that doesn't even exist to the average Imperial.

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

And given the sheer stupidity of those "incorruptible" statements the most reasonable interpretation is that GK are extremely resistant to Chaos but not 100% incorruptible, and the Imperium portrays them as 100% incorruptible for religious and/or propaganda reasons.

And so do the Chaos Daemons. You know, the guys who would like nothing more than to corrupt them.

 blood reaper wrote:
I mean, how can you have propaganda about an organisation that doesn't even exist to the average Imperial.

Because Inquisitors and high ranking officials exist. You don't think that the Imperium lies to even its highest officials?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
And so do the Chaos Daemons. You know, the guys who would like nothing more than to corrupt them.

But the whole game is still written from an Imperial perspective.

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I mean, how can you have propaganda about an organisation that doesn't even exist to the average Imperial.

Because Inquisitors and high ranking officials exist. You don't think that the Imperium lies to even its highest officials?

I do know this.

However, what is the point? These individuals know the of the Imperium's current state, and are fairly connected to the actions of the Knights and other organisations within the Imperium. What would be the point in feeding them propaganda.

To the Op..

You bought the models, and you're painting the models. It's your hobby to do with as you please. If you want to run a unit of "fallen" grey Knights as counts as CSM termies, go with it. If you want to run a GK list using counts as CSM termies, to represent a "corrupted" GK warband, go for it. DO what makes you happy, and sod everyone else.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I mean, how can you have propaganda about an organisation that doesn't even exist to the average Imperial.

Because Inquisitors and high ranking officials exist. You don't think that the Imperium lies to even its highest officials?

I do know this.

However, what is the point? These individuals know the of the Imperium's current state, and are fairly connected to the actions of the Knights and other organisations within the Imperium. What would be the point in feeding them propaganda.

Not all of them know everything. The High Lords of Terra may know it all, but few officials would know much about things outside of their jurisdiction. For example, it is possible for a SM chapter to know about the GK, but that does not mean they have access to the GK archives.
There may be an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus that once met a GK whilst checking a planet for heresy, but still not know what Daemons are.

Furthermore, it is faith that holds the IOM together. Even just knowing that no matter what the IOM does GK can be corrupted would be enough to cause doubt about humanity. And that is the kind of flaw a Daemon would need to gain purchase on somebody's soul. There's a fair chance that if a GK ever was corrupted, only he and those he killed would be allowed to retain the memory of such heresy, as it would damage the souls of all who know of it.

Selym wrote:Not all of them know everything. The High Lords of Terra may know it all, but few officials would know much about things outside of their jurisdiction. For example, it is possible for a SM chapter to know about the GK, but that does not mean they have access to the GK archives.
There may be an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus that once met a GK whilst checking a planet for heresy, but still not know what Daemons are.

Furthermore, it is faith that holds the IOM together. Even just knowing that no matter what the IOM does GK can be corrupted would be enough to cause doubt about humanity. And that is the kind of flaw a Daemon would need to gain purchase on somebody's soul. There's a fair chance that if a GK ever was corrupted, only he and those he killed would be allowed to retain the memory of such heresy, as it would damage the souls of all who know of it.

My point is that there have been no fluff incidences of a Grey Knight being corrupted, and when so much is directed against the GK being corrupted, it never being listed is like saying "Well Necrons have been corrupted by Chaos, it's just never been written."

Again, until solid evidence is offered, no Knight has been corrupted by Chaos, and it will probably be kept in such a state.

 blood reaper wrote:

Selym wrote:Not all of them know everything. The High Lords of Terra may know it all, but few officials would know much about things outside of their jurisdiction. For example, it is possible for a SM chapter to know about the GK, but that does not mean they have access to the GK archives.
There may be an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus that once met a GK whilst checking a planet for heresy, but still not know what Daemons are.

Furthermore, it is faith that holds the IOM together. Even just knowing that no matter what the IOM does GK can be corrupted would be enough to cause doubt about humanity. And that is the kind of flaw a Daemon would need to gain purchase on somebody's soul. There's a fair chance that if a GK ever was corrupted, only he and those he killed would be allowed to retain the memory of such heresy, as it would damage the souls of all who know of it.

My point is that there have been no fluff incidences of a Grey Knight being corrupted, and when so much is directed against the GK being corrupted, it never being listed is like saying "Well Necrons have been corrupted by Chaos, it's just never been written."

Again, until solid evidence is offered, no Knight has been corrupted by Chaos, and it will probably be kept in such a state.

ALl codex/ rulebooks are written from an IoM perspective though. Even the older elder codex was written as if an Imperial agent was documenting his time on a craftworld. Trust nothing you read!

 Peregrine wrote:

But the whole game is still written from an Imperial perspective.

Wait, the thoughts of the Blue Scribes are described from an Imperial perspecitve? Wut?

I think it's a very cool idea to have a set of Grey Knights who have begun to use Chaos against itself and also begun to suffer from some ill-effects. Using the Chaos rules would obviously reflect when they were leaning on the daemons more than usual; though, as you say, making up models that could work both ways will be the trick to this.

Making them subject to Malal is key to this. Though they are somewhat corrupted and fallen from the Grey Knight ideal, they still fight for the same thing as their brothers, the destruction of Chaos.

It's just like the varying types of Inquisitor, some that are hardline puritan and some that stock up on whatever weapon they can get, whether that is possessed citizens or similar, to get an edge on the enemy.

While I can understand people might not like the idea, the level of opposition to this idea that people are showing here makes me sad. Grey Knights really are a 'special snowflake bubble' army at the moment, aren't they?

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I think it's a very cool idea to have a set of Grey Knights who have begun to use Chaos against itself and also begun to suffer from some ill-effects. Using the Chaos rules would obviously reflect when they were leaning on the daemons more than usual; though, as you say, making up models that could work both ways will be the trick to this.

Making them subject to Malal is key to this. Though they are somewhat corrupted and fallen from the Grey Knight ideal, they still fight for the same thing as their brothers, the destruction of Chaos.

It's just like the varying types of Inquisitor, some that are hardline puritan and some that stock up on whatever weapon they can get, whether that is possessed citizens or similar, to get an edge on the enemy.

While I can understand people might not like the idea, the level of opposition to this idea that people are showing here makes me sad. Grey Knights really are a 'special snowflake bubble' army at the moment, aren't they?

A chapter already tried to use Chaos against Chaos, and they are known as the Relicators. The Grey Knights will never use Chaos artefacts as weaponry.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I think it's a very cool idea to have a set of Grey Knights who have begun to use Chaos against itself and also begun to suffer from some ill-effects. Using the Chaos rules would obviously reflect when they were leaning on the daemons more than usual; though, as you say, making up models that could work both ways will be the trick to this.

Making them subject to Malal is key to this. Though they are somewhat corrupted and fallen from the Grey Knight ideal, they still fight for the same thing as their brothers, the destruction of Chaos.

It's just like the varying types of Inquisitor, some that are hardline puritan and some that stock up on whatever weapon they can get, whether that is possessed citizens or similar, to get an edge on the enemy.

While I can understand people might not like the idea, the level of opposition to this idea that people are showing here makes me sad. Grey Knights really are a 'special snowflake bubble' army at the moment, aren't they?

Speaking of Inquisitors, my idea for the fluff is like this atm:

1) Radical Inquisitor who believes he can use chaos against itself experiments with warp energy.
2) Leads a small group of GK (Maybe 15 Termies) against a daemon horde.
3) Malal seizes the opportunity to gain power
4) Malal corrupts the Inquisitor (It's easy as he was already being tainted by warp energy, by his own choice).
5) The corrupt Inquisitor leads the GK into steadily more corrupted battlezones.
6) The GK are forced to use the Inquisitor's power to defeat a particularly powerful daemon.
7) Malal rushes into them, breaking their souls (It's and entire god, what else was going to happen)
8) The GK don't realise they're corrupted, and still try to fight for the IOM.
9) Whenever the IOM meets them, the see the corruption, and try to kill the GK, the GK defend themselves, believing the truth to be the other way around.
10) Still loyal(ish), killing the other gods, as per Malal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I think it's a very cool idea to have a set of Grey Knights who have begun to use Chaos against itself and also begun to suffer from some ill-effects. Using the Chaos rules would obviously reflect when they were leaning on the daemons more than usual; though, as you say, making up models that could work both ways will be the trick to this.

Making them subject to Malal is key to this. Though they are somewhat corrupted and fallen from the Grey Knight ideal, they still fight for the same thing as their brothers, the destruction of Chaos.

It's just like the varying types of Inquisitor, some that are hardline puritan and some that stock up on whatever weapon they can get, whether that is possessed citizens or similar, to get an edge on the enemy.

While I can understand people might not like the idea, the level of opposition to this idea that people are showing here makes me sad. Grey Knights really are a 'special snowflake bubble' army at the moment, aren't they?

A chapter already tried to use Chaos against Chaos, and they are known as the Relicators. The Grey Knights will never use Chaos artefacts as weaponry.

*They have daemon weapons. Cannon. In codex.

Yes the codex does have Daemon Weapons....

...available to radical Inquisitors, which is different to Grey Knights.

 blood reaper wrote:
Yes the codex does have Daemon Weapons....

...available to radical Inquisitors, which is different to Grey Knights.

Isn't the blade of Antwyr a daemon artefact?

 Peregrine wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Again, a vague story talking about the corruption of a Space marine is little opposition to the multiple statements that Grey Knights are incorruptible.

And given the sheer stupidity of those "incorruptible" statements the most reasonable interpretation is that GK are extremely resistant to Chaos but not 100% incorruptible, and the Imperium portrays them as 100% incorruptible for religious and/or propaganda reasons.

*BLAM* HERESY!


But really, it's your army. Some may not like your backfluffy, but so what. I mean really,t his is the world that has the Doomrider in it...

Also, in a game that has not only Hello Kitty Marines (and 'Crons) but a million self-made chapters, you can take some creative license as you like.

And some people do. AND ITS AWESOME.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-4078-375_Eldar%20of%20Athel%20Loren.html

I'd love to see you make it and play it just to mess with them. Anyone who presumes to tell you what to do with your army is a collasal tit that needs to be trolled. Hard.

 Selym wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
Yes the codex does have Daemon Weapons....

...available to radical Inquisitors, which is different to Grey Knights.

Isn't the blade of Antwyr a daemon artefact?

You have a point, but Crowe only uses it as a normal blade. He refuses to use it's daemonic powers which it offers him.

If Grey Knights can't fall to Chaos why did they need the blood of Sisters on their armor to not succumb to Khorne's rage?

Go for it even their lore supports the idea that they could potentially fall and will go to any lengths to prevent it from happening.

Anyone telling you otherwise is being a bit too overzealous of a fanboy.

They're cool models, use them however you wish. As long as they look Chaosified people will be cool with it. Just don't go out of your way to tell everyone your fluff for them.

There is a difference between being incorruptible and being immune. The Grey Knights are incorruptible, they are not immune.

A Grey Knight can still be killed by the Destroyer Plague, he can be overcome by the Bloodtide.

The Bloodtide does one of 2 things to you, it either makes you simply explode in a shower of gore or it causes your inner savage to be released. The first is what would happen to the Grey Knights, they could possibly have resisted it but they couldn't take that chance. So they covered themselves in the blood of those who had shown immunity to it.

It was simply insurance. The Bloodtide was such a threat they couldn't take the risk they would be destroyed by it and allow it to continue to spread.

 Grey Templar wrote:
There is a difference between being incorruptible and being immune. The Grey Knights are incorruptible, they are not immune.

A Grey Knight can still be killed by the Destroyer Plague, he can be overcome by the Bloodtide.

The Bloodtide does one of 2 things to you, it either makes you simply explode in a shower of gore or it causes your inner savage to be released. The first is what would happen to the Grey Knights, they could possibly have resisted it but they couldn't take that chance. So they covered themselves in the blood of those who had shown immunity to it.

It was simply insurance. The Bloodtide was such a threat they couldn't take the risk they would be destroyed by it and allow it to continue to spread.

How do you know that they would explode, hmm? Did you write the fluff for them? If it could make them "release their inner savage." I think that would make for a very badass group of Chaos GK.

Because thats what the Bloodtide does if it gets you, as per the fluff that existed long before Mat Ward worked for GW. Now Grey Knights would be resistant and could potentially do the same thing the Sisters did, but its not certain.

From wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
There is a difference between being incorruptible and being immune. The Grey Knights are incorruptible, they are not immune.

A Grey Knight can still be killed by the Destroyer Plague, he can be overcome by the Bloodtide.

The Bloodtide does one of 2 things to you, it either makes you simply explode in a shower of gore or it causes your inner savage to be released. The first is what would happen to the Grey Knights, they could possibly have resisted it but they couldn't take that chance. So they covered themselves in the blood of those who had shown immunity to it.

It was simply insurance. The Bloodtide was such a threat they couldn't take the risk they would be destroyed by it and allow it to continue to spread.

How do you know that they would explode, hmm? Did you write the fluff for them? If it could make them "release their inner savage." I think that would make for a very badass group of Chaos GK.

We "know" because the other result would fly in the face of all Grey Knight fluff to this point. They don't become corrupted. That's their schtick, just as Tyranids eat everything and Tau diplomacy everything. It's the very definition of a Grey Knight.

This situation sounds like my dog and her food. She COULD run over and eat it right when I put it in the bowl, or she could wonder off and ignore it. But she won't ignore it. She could, but she won't. It just won't happen.

It is all in a name.

Think of the Word Bearers.

They do not like being upstaged in their devotion by unimaginative dogs of the Emperor.

The black knights are then created to face the heresy that is the grey knights.

Only the best psionic cultists are elevated with sufficient demonic possession and outfitted with mind numbing runed armor necessary to combat the emperor devout.

What better than to use blasphemed weapons of the enemy against them? Symbolic of how the Chaplains converted their weapons when they found the true gods.

To take the darkest lore, the "word" to the enemy in their chestplate and preach to them the greatness of chaos, how can they not question what they do?

Where the portents take them, the black knights will answer the call. They will be ready for the unworthy.

Yadda, yadda... it works, do not harass, it will work if you think of the fluff and not try to cheese into making it two armies COMMIT to the path: you will be respected.