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 Grey Templar wrote:
Because thats what the Bloodtide does if it gets you, as per the fluff that existed long before Mat Ward worked for GW. Now Grey Knights would be resistant and could potentially do the same thing the Sisters did, but its not certain.

So how is "releasing your inner savage" NOT corruption?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
We "know" because the other result would fly in the face of all Grey Knight fluff to this point. They don't become corrupted. That's their schtick, just as Tyranids eat everything and Tau diplomacy everything. It's the very definition of a Grey Knight.

Which is why the elite GK are even more incorruptible than the standard ones. If even basic GK are 100% impossible to corrupt then what does that make Purifiers, 200% impossible to corrupt?

As I pointed out, that isn't the result it would have on a GK. The result they would suffer is just exploding into bloody chunks.

 Grey Templar wrote:
As I pointed out, that isn't the result it would have on a GK. The result they would suffer is just exploding into bloody chunks.

Well, if you assume that it was necessary to kill the SoB instead of a bunch of Khorne cultists slaughtering everything in sight, starting with the pure and innocent faithful servants of the Emperor. Which is a pretty bad assumption, since everything about the story is the textbook definition of "unleashing your inner savage".

 Makutsu wrote:
I don't know why so many people are against this though.

Make up your own fluff do your own conversions and play it anyway

Lets put it this way. I COULD say that I collect a force of Emperor's Childrens led by Fulgrim himself but they have been redeemed and accepted into the Imperium ya it is my fluff but I better be prepared to catch flak for it.


Now If I keep that story to myself will people care? No. If I develop a more user friendly backstory and thats what I tell people it can help things move smoothly.




So OP

No Chaos Grey Knights. Feel free to use Grey Knight rules to make up a Chaos force and make fluff around them being particularly chosen by the Chaos Gods or something.

 Selym wrote:

What do you think of this idea?
Do you have any suggestions?

To answer the questions:

Don't like it.
Don't do it.

That being said, the visuals and play style sound awesome, just don't create fluff that sounds pure troll to so many. To me, if I came across you at a tourney, with that expressed fluff, I'd think of you as a trolling jerk who's just trying to get a rise out of people by violating the lore of their favorite universe.

However, using the army as described in tandem with the rules, sounds cool.

@everyone defending his right to do it anyway (which he has), he did ask

What do you think of this idea? Do you have any suggestions?

. Your being bent out of shape over us answering the question given is kinda odd and somewhat hypocritical. So many people play 40k because they enjoy the lore and fluff. To find people protective of a Universe while dealing with the primary form of interacting with that universe really shouldn't strike you as odd.

It's funny watching people getting angsty cause their special snowflakes are melting...

To the OP: feel free to do it. It's your money and your models. BUT, the level of debate in this thread should give you some idea of the opposition to the idea you might face. Be prepared to have a DAMN good explanation.

To everyone else: ignoring all information but the Codexes, exactly how corruptible Grey Knights are in general, and have been so far, is made clear if you take all the info in.

In the GK Codex it's stated that their psychic essence, unlike most, is "anathema" to Daemons. That's a direct quote use of the word anathema - meaning Daemons not only can't possess, control or attack a Grey Knight through warp-based means (physically is another matter), they would in fact much prefer to get far far away from them.

In the Daemons Codex, under the Changeling's short story, it's stated that no Grey Knight has fallen to Chaos *yet*. The seed of what might possibly turn into some semblance of something slightly resembling something else that could be coming close to doubt is planted in the short story, but if that seed takes root and causes said corruption is a future event and therefore not known.
This gives you two possibilities, either of which is your choice to make as the reader - either this story shows that a Grey Knight can be corrupted after all and it's just waiting to happen, or they still cannot and this will be just another failed attempt.
However you *can't* try to enforce the view of whether Grey Knights can or can't be corrupted in this way as the story leaves it open for either possibility.

Hetelic wrote:
It's funny watching people getting angsty cause their special snowflakes are melting...

So, instead of forming an argument against points listed against your argument, you've instead resorted to making a semi-snide comment?

The imperial propaganda doesn't say no grey knight has fallen to chaos. It say's no grey knight exists. You know, cause they are secret.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
They do not follow Khorne's command, it's just 4-chan trolololing.

Yeah, it's just 4-chan instead of the obvious interpretation of the story that everyone who isn't a GK player saw as soon as they read it.

And yes, it's obvious. When you arrive on a Khorne-corrupted planet that has been turned into a giant "kill everything" arena for Khorne's amusement, slaughter the last remaining uncorrupted defenders, paint yourself with their blood, and slaughter everything else on the planet you are following the command of Khorne. Not even the most devout Khorne cultist could possibly find any fault in the GK's behavior in that incident.

And I thought Khorne hated sorcery. Why would he want an army composed entirely of psychic marines?

 Super Ready wrote:
To the OP: feel free to do it. It's your money and your models. BUT, the level of debate in this thread should give you some idea of the opposition to the idea you might face. Be prepared to have a DAMN good explanation.

To everyone else: ignoring all information but the Codexes, exactly how corruptible Grey Knights are in general, and have been so far, is made clear if you take all the info in.

In the GK Codex it's stated that their psychic essence, unlike most, is "anathema" to Daemons. That's a direct quote use of the word anathema - meaning Daemons not only can't possess, control or attack a Grey Knight through warp-based means (physically is another matter), they would in fact much prefer to get far far away from them.

In the Daemons Codex, under the Changeling's short story, it's stated that no Grey Knight has fallen to Chaos *yet*. The seed of what might possibly turn into some semblance of something slightly resembling something else that could be coming close to doubt is planted in the short story, but if that seed takes root and causes said corruption is a future event and therefore not known.
This gives you two possibilities, either of which is your choice to make as the reader - either this story shows that a Grey Knight can be corrupted after all and it's just waiting to happen, or they still cannot and this will be just another failed attempt.
However you *can't* try to enforce the view of whether Grey Knights can or can't be corrupted in this way as the story leaves it open for either possibility.

Or (C) Grey Knights cannot be corrupted, but as we cannot state that about every knight that will ever exist, we can only say that, as no Knight has ever fallen, they are basically incorruptible.

Hetelic wrote:
It's funny watching people getting angsty cause their special snowflakes are melting...

And exalted for saying exaclty what I was going to, saving me the trouble.

Why they get their own codex is beyond me really. Their fluff is about as bad as their ingame rules.

If you were to say "Oh, this Space Marine Captain in my army is actually the emperor himself and the near-corpse on the throne is just a decoy" a lot of your opponents would either be calling BS or otherwise just think it in their heads. Anything is theoretically possible in the 40k world, as some have pointed out, because our "sources" are biased. At the same time, if some guy wants to tell me that he's controlling Leman Russ returned from the warp, I'm gonna think that's pretty lame.

As has been pointed out, even if some people didn't understand it, there is -nothing- which says that GK have fallen to chaos. There isn't even a story which says it's possible - there is a story which, if it is a Grey Knight, means that it's possible, but that is not the same thing. On the other hand, there is tonnes of really clear info saying it's not possible.

Personally to the OP, do whatever you want. It's your army, and you don't want to settle for an army you're not passionate about and live in regret because you got talked out of making your dream army. But just remember that your army violates the fluff, and to some people that will seem a little stupid.

Do it and make it look cool.
Don't bother with fluff because it isn't ever going to work. This forum has seen dozens of arguments from people trying to make it work. Don't bother just do it and make it look cool.

 Selym wrote:

What I would like to know is:

What do you think of this idea?
Do you have any suggestions?

I think the idea sounds fun. Certainly puts your army in a new spot light, for better or for worse. I've always liked the GK models, though I'm a IG player. There were times when I considered getting some GK models and say that they were replacement Ogryns or Psykers. The only thing stopping me from doing that is money.

As for the whole 'GK can't be corruptible/immune to corruption' argument, given time everything can be corrupted. An example would be the Primarchs. They were the Emprah's sons and yet half of them fell to Chaos, one of them being the Emp's favorite child. Another example would be the SoB where, IIRC, only one Sister has fallen to Chaos.

For suggestions, I can only think of a couple regarding their humble beginning.
1) Say that someone from the IoM wanted more GKs available as a thousand can only do so much against so many Chaos incursions. During the creation of these GKs Malal noticed this and decided to make a small-'21st Founding' incident of his own. Placing his own influences into key parts of the process he gains new pawns.

2) Say that some Chaos bigshot saw these powerful silver Astrates and thought 'Those guys are the gak. How awesome would it be if I had something like that for me?' So after the battle was over, said bigshot (who we will call Herp) somehow drags a GK body with him to experiment on. After many long years, Herp has everything he needs to know/needs to have to make his own GKs and gets cracking. With the help of some CSMs he met along the way (which turns out to be the Sons of Malice), the fruits of his long, hard and chaotic labor come to bear with plenty of powerful psyker Space Marines coming around (The details of this process I can't come up with right now). So after a certain number of these Astrates are created the Sons of Malice marines there to help kill Herp and take these guys under their wing, teaching them the ways of Malal. And in true Malal fashion these Malal GKs kill their mentor marines cause they be full of Chaos stuffing.

3) If you want the 'GKs falling to Malal' bit then how about using Warp travel as one means of corrupting them? I don't remember what the names are for those unexplored parts of space where the ships can't see the light of the Astronomican. But during a patrol/exploration mission/something involving a ship in that area they go into Warp Drive (haha...I'm sorry for a bad joke.) they are trapped by Malal where he screws with them for, in the ship's time, a millennia while in real time it was like a week or something. After 365,242 days of Malal singing lullabies and playing his drum like a violin (which those GKs still don't understand how that happens), all the time speaking how the Emprah had forsaken them in the Warp with Malal, even the hardest believers would falter.

These are just suggestions that you asked for, so feel free to do with whatever you want with it. Hope this helps with the fluffy part of your army.

To the OP

I would say go for it. Fluff is a guide not sacred. It is broken all the time by writers and GW. The reason the story takes place over thousands of years and is often ambiguous
Is to allow imaginative interpretation. The creation of your own fluff and twists to the grand story are at the core of what makes the 40K universe appealing to people with imagination.

Anything in 40K can be used as a tool of Chaos. Either through corruption of the soul or masterful trickery.

I would suggest using the GK codex, keep the models WYSIWYG with gear, just paint and convert them (mutations etc.). Basically don’t confuse your opponent. It will also be a good idea to come up with a story. Did Chaos use the GK’s pride to trick them like Horus? Has the Inquisition covered their existence up? Were they worn down by being trapped in the warp for a thousand years?...

I look forward to seeing your work

Cheers Vim

in order to avoid conflict i would say use the GK codex and maybe even the models (with all the Aegis crap and iconography shaved off) - but dont say they are "Fallen GK" - you're just goading the people who take the fluff seriously.

other than the "Chaos GK" i really lie the idea. the paint scheme could look really coole and i'm interested to see what you do to convert the GK weapons.

Using the GK codex gives you some nice things as (as far as i understand) Malal basically waged war on the other gods - so it makes snese his devout followers would have psyker powers and anti-daemon weapons.
The Codex also has lots of different cc weapon optiosn so you avoid units all looking the same with everyone having the same loadout.

I personally love GK the supers of the Adaptes Astaratus who can withstand all demonic threats known to man. I imagine them wading slaughtering thousands of demons in the name of the Ordo Malleus. But to make them worship Chaos

Its like replacing the hero of a movie with a villian.

Superman2

gnoise wrote:For suggestions, I can only think of a couple regarding their humble beginning.
1) Say that someone from the IoM wanted more GKs available as a thousand can only do so much against so many Chaos incursions. During the creation of these GKs Malal noticed this and decided to make a small-'21st Founding' incident of his own. Placing his own influences into key parts of the process he gains new pawns.

2) Say that some Chaos bigshot saw these powerful silver Astrates and thought 'Those guys are the gak. How awesome would it be if I had something like that for me?' So after the battle was over, said bigshot (who we will call Herp) somehow drags a GK body with him to experiment on. After many long years, Herp has everything he needs to know/needs to have to make his own GKs and gets cracking. With the help of some CSMs he met along the way (which turns out to be the Sons of Malice), the fruits of his long, hard and chaotic labor come to bear with plenty of powerful psyker Space Marines coming around (The details of this process I can't come up with right now). So after a certain number of these Astrates are created the Sons of Malice marines there to help kill Herp and take these guys under their wing, teaching them the ways of Malal. And in true Malal fashion these Malal GKs kill their mentor marines cause they be full of Chaos stuffing.

3) If you want the 'GKs falling to Malal' bit then how about using Warp travel as one means of corrupting them? I don't remember what the names are for those unexplored parts of space where the ships can't see the light of the Astronomican. But during a patrol/exploration mission/something involving a ship in that area they go into Warp Drive (haha...I'm sorry for a bad joke.) they are trapped by Malal where he screws with them for, in the ship's time, a millennia while in real time it was like a week or something. After 365,242 days of Malal singing lullabies and playing his drum like a violin (which those GKs still don't understand how that happens), all the time speaking how the Emprah had forsaken them in the Warp with Malal, even the hardest believers would falter.

These are just suggestions that you asked for, so feel free to do with whatever you want with it. Hope this helps with the fluffy part of your army.

These sound like fun ideas to play with
In my head I had an outline for a backstory in which a small band of GK and IG, led by a radical Inquisitor (who is secretly corrupted by Malal) are deployed around the Eye of Terror. They then hear that a powerful artifact is being smuggled in to the eye for unknown reasons. They follow the transport towards a daemon world, [now using your 3rd idea] but get sucked into actual warpspace by accident. The spend nearly 5,000 years of their own time in there, but in realspace it's only about three days. During this time, Malal sows the seeds of corruption, turning their spaceship into a daemon infested hellhole, turning the humans insane, and forcing the GK to use every last bit of mental strength they have to stay alive (and subsequently puncturing holes in their souls). By the time they return to reality, they realise the time disparity, and continue their mission.
The land on the planet, and start searching. But [somehow] a Daemon Primarch is being summoned into reality (I'm thinking Angron). They are to few to work effectivley, but decide to join their psychic might with the Inquisitor (who nobody notices should be dead). As their minds link to the Inquisitor's, Malal rushes into them, destroying their final defences as they accidentally let him in, believing they were about to receive support from the Inquisitor.

Malal helps them to kick the Daemon Primarch back into the warp (as is his job), and then leads the newly corrupted GK to further acts of insanity.

vim_the_good wrote:To the OP

I would say go for it. Fluff is a guide not sacred. It is broken all the time by writers and GW. The reason the story takes place over thousands of years and is often ambiguous
Is to allow imaginative interpretation. The creation of your own fluff and twists to the grand story are at the core of what makes the 40K universe appealing to people with imagination.

Anything in 40K can be used as a tool of Chaos. Either through corruption of the soul or masterful trickery.

I would suggest using the GK codex, keep the models WYSIWYG with gear, just paint and convert them (mutations etc.). Basically don’t confuse your opponent. It will also be a good idea to come up with a story. Did Chaos use the GK’s pride to trick them like Horus? Has the Inquisition covered their existence up? Were they worn down by being trapped in the warp for a thousand years?...

I look forward to seeing your work

Cheers Vim

It's good to see people who share my view
Basic idea of the army above

Of course GK can (and are) corrupted to a alrge degree by Chaos / Xenos

Fielding inquisitors with daemon weapons / xenos artifacts / xenos monkeys. Fielding Castellan Crowe with a daemon weapon (don't care if he doesn't activate it, he could just use a blunt sword then)
Allying with anything else than Imperium. And they do that on a very regular basis with Necrons, even though they were buddy-buddy with what looked dangerously close to Chaos Gods (C'tan)
Having their main wargear pieces that are (were) completely useless against daemons :
-rending psycannons against Inv saves, yay !
-power weapons against Inv saves (and Force weapons when daemons were still all EW)

And last but not least (tops even) is that their grand master spent centuries in the Warp, they're perfectly happy with taking him back, no questions asked (real inquisitors would have burned him first, just in case).
Oh, and he's S5 T5 because ..... because he's worth it ? (by L'OREAL)

Yeah, they are corrupted, even without slaughtering battle sisters and bathing in their blood


To the first question and goal of the topic :
Go for it, even though you should be ashamed to even be playing GK to start with :p
As long as your miniatures can easily be identified from across the table, convert & paint them as you wish

"Ironically (or appropriately depending on how you look at it) one of the best ways to represent Malal dedicated Chaos Marines would be to use the Grey Knights codex. Think about it; elite marine units with sick powers and a plethora of daemon killing hardware, small army sizes, radical Ordo Malleus Inquisitors with daemonblades and daemonhosts and more. Take a Draigo-Paladin spam list and use 'counts as' Chaos terminators for a nasty Chaos smashing elite warband of Malal followers and lolstomp your opponents into the ground.
Alternatively you can use C:CSM if you aren't a cheesed-out 12 year old or Daemonhunters vet."

I think that bit from 1d4chan about sums it up

2x210 wrote:
"Ironically (or appropriately depending on how you look at it) one of the best ways to represent Malal dedicated Chaos Marines would be to use the Grey Knights codex. Think about it; elite marine units with sick powers and a plethora of daemon killing hardware, small army sizes, radical Ordo Malleus Inquisitors with daemonblades and daemonhosts and more. Take a Draigo-Paladin spam list and use 'counts as' Chaos terminators for a nasty Chaos smashing elite warband of Malal followers and lolstomp your opponents into the ground.
Alternatively you can use C:CSM if you aren't a cheesed-out 12 year old or Daemonhunters vet."

I think that bit from 1d4chan about sums it up

It does a bit. However, if you're feeling manly you can try to limit the cheese (No Draigo, no Dreadknight, No psyfleman dreds, no more than 1 stormraven if any...).

 Selym wrote:
It does a bit. However, if you're feeling manly you can try to limit the cheese (No Draigo, no Dreadknight, No psyfleman dreds, no more than 1 stormraven if any...).

Well of course no Draigo in a Malal army, he's polishing Slaanesh's scepter as we speak.

You know, this thread reminds me of why I'm selling my armies. This game was supposed to be about creative use of models and fluff, yet every idea will be met with the cries of "purists" who have BEEN TOLD REPEATEDLY BY THE AUTHORS THEMSELVES THAT THE FLUFF THEY ARE CLINGING TO IS MISINFORMATION! = my head

I've played nerd games all my life and I've never seen this kind of reaction. What is it about 40k that makes it such a magnet for poorly socialized OCD victims?

 Selym wrote:

2x210 wrote:
Using the Grey Knights codex for a Malice based chaos army would be cool..... But Chaos Grey Knights is pretty much a slap in the face of fluff, like successor Space Wolves or Tau worshipping Khorn

Well, considering how much Matt Ward os a slap in the face to the fluff and crunch of WH40k, I think this ranks pretty low on the scale of slappage.

Just because he wrote a few slightly left-field fluff variations doesn't give you an excuse to make something that really does go completely against all canon ever written for the GK.

If you want to model and paint Chaos Grey Knight, knock yourself out man! They're your models.

To me, it's no different than female space marines and MLP Space Marines. Have fun!

This^

[quote=Boggy Man 522754 5541555 f3763b47b5b34a5d4fe662cc8909d274.jpg

I've played nerd games all my life and I've never seen this kind of reaction. What is it about 40k that makes it such a magnet for poorly socialized OCD victims?

I get quite upset when people fold maps wrong in front of me, or hold a phone upside down even if the screen rotates to match.

In all seriousness, something done to a clear vision and not for some advantage tends to get the OCD people to be quiet.
Trying to be Grey Knights AND some Chaos version is a bit hard to do unless you go insane with magnets (even then it is iffy).

I am old enough now that I really do not care if I have someone's approval.
I have done WYSIWYG out of respect to my opponent, if it is "Hello Kitty" with "Barney the Dinosaur" allies I am not terribly sorry I offend.
(Losing or winning is a win-win however)

So long as Selym uses the actual Codex to play his army (GKs or CSM) and he respects the fluff, as he's doing now, it should be good. It's not like Selym is saying that all GKs are weaklings, just that some unlucky sods were in the wrong place at the wrong time and the Uncorruptible have been corrupted, making this Grimdark universe even more Grimdark.
My opinion about WH40K, you can never have enough Grimdark.

Magnets=Magic=Friendship