Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Deathstars aren't competitive in sixth edition unless a TO specifically designs their tournament to buff them. A veteran player playing a balanced army will beat a less experienced player playing a deathstar in this edition. Sixth edition does cater well though to what I often refer to as a quasi deathstar. There is no one unit now that can single handedly win a game but there are definitely some units that can go a long ways. For instance Dark Harliestar looked promising... Too many points though sunk in one unit that can only hold one objective at the end of a game. Maybe a true deathstar will eventually emerge but the direction I see in sixth edition so far is not a good indication.
I know it's probably stupid/pointless to factor this in, but should Draigowing or the Pinkstar get any extra points for being scoring?
I'm rooting for the Tau, but I don't think they can win. They'll struggle to kill even the Baron in a single round of shooting (let alone all the other 3+/4++ rerollable). Once in combat, the Seer Council will sweep them.
Against the Daemons, they'll always be snap-firing at the LOC. Even with monster-hunter, hitting on 6's is too much for them (unless he flubs the gift rolls and doesn't get 3+ armor, reroll invuls, or fnp). Once in combat, the LOC stands a decent chance of sweeping them.
As dumb as it would be, I think it would be funny if two deathstars managed to do nothing against each other. There are at least 2 units that can get a 2++ re-rollable, so it's at least possible.
16 psycannon shots will be enough to make a dent by the time they hit combat, also I guess you will be able to use grand stratagy? Then give them scout or re-rolls to wound so they become even better
Siphen wrote: I know it's probably stupid/pointless to factor this in, but should Draigowing or the Pinkstar get any extra points for being scoring?
I'm rooting for the Tau, but I don't think they can win. They'll struggle to kill even the Baron in a single round of shooting (let alone all the other 3+/4++ rerollable). Once in combat, the Seer Council will sweep them. Against the Daemons, they'll always be snap-firing at the LOC. Even with monster-hunter, hitting on 6's is too much for them (unless he flubs the gift rolls and doesn't get 3+ armor, reroll invuls, or fnp). Once in combat, the LOC stands a decent chance of sweeping them.
As dumb as it would be, I think it would be funny if two deathstars managed to do nothing against each other. There are at least 2 units that can get a 2++ re-rollable, so it's at least possible.
I believe it all depends on who matches up against who. Tau, if they got into fusion Blaster range, would wreck the hammerstar's LR, and then jump away and keep kitting, but Deldar match up good against Tau. I've never seen nor played against a draigowind so i don't really know how that might end up.
To sum it all up, whatever the matchup is might inherently favor one deathstar or another. I might be biased, but IMHO, the Hammernators might be one of the best in here, since they nothing outside of Farsight or the Disco-court can hurt AV14, which might also have ap3 flamers or lots of bolter dakka; not to mention that it might also keep up with the JSJ farsightbomb and the jetseers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/26 03:24:49
Draigowing would eat the landraider, either through psycannon shots or the hammers in combat, then with weight of attacks would kill of the hammernators.
At a recent tournie I played a salamanders guy, my psycannons wreked 2 raiders (one was a spartan) then by getting the charge I beat of 10 hammernators in combat, although with slightly lucky rolls. But WS5 4 attacks each on the charge, couple of hammer atttacks and then 2++ from stave, 4++ from swords, is no slouch.
I know it's probably stupid/pointless to factor this in, but should Draigowing or the Pinkstar get any extra points for being scoring?
If so, ditto for Nob Bikers.
Also, another potential Ork Deathstar to consider
Ghazghull
Grotsnik
x10 MANz +Cybork for all from Grotsnik.
+Kombi Skorchas for all (or not)
=885 points.
Also are allies allowed at all? I'd love to see the above with an allied Painboss instead of Grotsnik and maybe Old Zogwart for gaks and giggles.
Or maybe, just ditch Grotsnik and take Old Zogwart anyway. I mean every other deathstar seems to be based on some jerkass special character, which we now have like a 50% chance of squiggifying...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/26 06:40:22
1 Necron Overlord w/ 2+, Shackles, Scythe, 3++, Orb
Harbringer of Eternity w/ Chronometron, 3++
Harbringer of Despair w/ Veil of Darkness
Harbringer of Despair
Harbringer of Despair
Necron Lord w/ 2+,Shackles, Scythe, 3++
Necron Lord w/ 2+,Shackles, Scythe, 3++
Necron Lord w/ 2+,Shackles, Scythe, 3++
1 Necron Overlord w/ 2+, Shackles, Scythe, 3++
Harbringer of Eternity w/ Chronometron, 3++
This is how a supercourt looks like, two rerolls, Veil for mobility, 3 AP1 templates even when getting charged, all but 3 guys dont have a 3++, you have 5 scythes and 5 shackles...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/26 07:11:37
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
All units in night scythes. Nothing to get shot at turn 1, pick and choose objectives to place warriors on. Spam Tesla weaponry. It might be more powerful to replace 2 of the night scythes with a doom scythe and boost the warriors as well but either way it's a pretty solid (if completely cheesy) list
skyfi wrote: I thought nob bikers only got 4+ cover? 3+ was when they turbo boosted in 5th ed iirc?
Also, I wouldn't run that loadout on bikers myself. i would drop squigs, add at least 1 pole on a normal nob in case both bosses go by wayside, and add a PK over the squigs on a normal nob. 3-4 s8-9 attacks per round for 25 points is better than 2 extra s9-10 attacks for 30.
They do have 4+ cover, which becomes 3+ if they turbo-boost.
How about some Big Choppas?
If I drop the 2 attack squigs on the warbosses, would you rather get:
1. 1x Power Klaw and 1x Bosspole on a nob biker.
of
2. 4x Big Choppas, 1x Bosspole and 1x Kombi-skorcha?
MarkyMark wrote: I think 20 flesh hounds might be a better bet then 10 blood crushers, flesh hounds is 40wounds versus blood crushers 30, attacks on charge (ignoring things like rage) is flesh hounds 40 and blood crushers 30,
1 Necron Overlord w/ 2+, Shackles, Scythe, 3++, Orb
Harbringer of Eternity w/ Chronometron, 3++
Harbringer of Despair w/ Veil of Darkness
Harbringer of Despair
Harbringer of Despair
Necron Lord w/ 2+,Shackles, Scythe, 3++
Necron Lord w/ 2+,Shackles, Scythe, 3++
Necron Lord w/ 2+,Shackles, Scythe, 3++
1 Necron Overlord w/ 2+, Shackles, Scythe, 3++
Harbringer of Eternity w/ Chronometron, 3++
How are you attaching Harbringer of Eternity from another court to this unit?
IIRC, the way to add second chronometron to unit is to use someCryptekDude The Blinded from latest Imperial Armour.
I've played/played against Ravenwing, but despite it's mobility, I think the 3+ without access to an invulnerable saves leaves them, well, vulnerable similar to Death Company. The Tau and Nob Bikers work around this by being multi-wound and/or having 4+ cover save.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/26 13:11:19
For a bonus round, have them face Doom of Malantai in a mycetic spore.. Spirit Leech + Psychic Shriek + a couple of pot shots from the spore... Wonder how many of these deathstars will be gimped by this what... 200 pt counter.
Looking forward to this, should be interesting. I did something similar a while back with Paladins and the Harliestar, this is much grander in scope though.
DAaddict wrote: For a bonus round, have them face Doom of Malantai in a mycetic spore.. Spirit Leech + Psychic Shriek + a couple of pot shots from the spore... Wonder how many of these deathstars will be gimped by this what... 200 pt counter.
130 points! But the most wounds he's likely to do is 8 if triple 6s are rolled for Ld with leech, minus cover saves. Same again for shriek just with the psychic test and shot at BS but no covers. Plus you've got to hope he drops in within range. A lot of ifs and buts. Doom is great when he works but isn't the most reliable in my experience, though a great psychological weapon.
For a start, doom in a pod auto loses as he wont be on table turn 1 same for the necron list with the flyers.
The doom will hurt the turn it comes in but palies have invul to save them, horrors have invul (and possibly 2plus re rolling 1's) jetseer has good cover save and Tau have expenable drones
40kGlobal AOA member, regular of Overlords podcast club and 4tk gaming store. Blogger @ http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/ 06/2013: 1st at War of the Roses ETC warm up.
08/213: 3rd place double teams at 4tk
09/2013: 7th place, best daemon and non eldar/tau army at Northern Warlords GT
10/2013: 3rd/4th at Battlefield Birmingham
11/2013: 5th at GT heat 3
11/2013: 5th COG 2k at 4tk
01/2014: 34th at Caledonian
03/2014: 3rd GT Final
DAaddict wrote: For a bonus round, have them face Doom of Malantai in a mycetic spore.. Spirit Leech + Psychic Shriek + a couple of pot shots from the spore... Wonder how many of these deathstars will be gimped by this what... 200 pt counter.
Might not work for everything, like a Farisight or Hammerstar, they have enough shootin to plunk wounds of the doom. They dont have to get near it. Also, can units embarked in a vehicle get spirit leeched?
6 DCA's + 6 crusaders, with coteaz, an ordo xenos inq with prescience, and a tech marine ( or two, at least one with rad grenades)
DCA's have mauls + axes, so 18 attacks base (24 on charge)
either at I 6 str 6 (can get to str 10 by adding more hammerhand via techmarines) ap 4, all rerolling hits
or I1 str 5 (again able to increase) rerolling hits,
this plus whatever coteaz rolls on the tables (or keep his HH for another +1str)
the unit has 6 ablative 3++ wounds as well, which also contribute 6 more axe attacks at str 4, and a 5++ after they die, coteaz and/or the techmarine can also tank wounds with tehir artificer armour, giving the techmarine a warding staff also gives you a cheap challenge monster in the unit with a 2++ AND the str 8 ap1 servo arm attacks
and your enemy is -1T, so if you buff the mace attacks to str 8, bam, ID all around for t5 guys,
all this costs
180pts for the DCA+crusaders
55pts ordos xenos w prec
100pts coteaz
125pts techmarine w rad + warding staff
so 460 pts,
Automatically Appended Next Post: best part is the cheapest part of the deathstar is the DCA's and crusaders, you can take two units of them, and if someone focuses all their shooting on the first, just move the caracters into the 2nd unit
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/26 15:02:15
gameandwatch wrote: Though it certainly lacks mobility, and I dont have my codex in front of me:
Max Grotesques, liquifiers, aborration, flesh gauntlet, urien upgrade
Urien
Duke
Eldrad
or something to that ilk, though I think it falls way short of 1000
Sorry, no dice.
Eldrad can only Divination powers on this unit. He can't cast Fortune or other eldar powers. Then you have the issue of mobility, resiliency, no shooting and hitting power.
BTW that deathstar there is about 900-pts!
ace101 wrote: @Jy2: if you haven't done the Hammerstar analysis, I'd like to update that entry:
Just a tuning effort to further cheese the entry, and make the shooting more powerful.
Vulkan does make the unit marginally better but you will have to give up the beatstick Lysander. BTW, Vulkan is only AP3 so will have problems hurting 2+ models.
Azrael
Librarian, Lvl 2, Bike, Mace of Redemption, Auspex, rolling Divination or Telepathy
10x Ravenwing Black Knights
and
Allied Sevrin Loth for full access to Biomancy
Bikes have a 3+, 4++, and possible 2+ cover from Invisibility.
Sevrin Loth + Rad Grenade for T2 enemies (Haemorrage)
Azrael blind+Mace of Redemption Blind on -1 I from Stasis Grenades
Hit and Run for disengaging, shooting, and re-charging ( Take Furious Charge warlord trait)
4+ DTW from Sevrin Loth.
Damn, just played against Sevrin -head Loth last night. Lol. He was in a 50-man blob squad.
Only had 1 S8 shooting in my army - soulgrinder phelgm - which I shot at his blob squad (with Sevrin in front). He failed all but 1 Look-Out-Sirs and then proceeded to roll a for his 2++ Invuln save. Splat.
Damn, you can get 10 biker units? I like it! I will add this to the Deathstars Under Consideration list.
rigeld2 wrote: 3 Carnifexes with TLDevs/BioPlasma and ScyTals (or Crushing Claws) (add in Toxin Sacs and Frag Spines to taste) with 2 tooled out Primes. Still relatively slow but very tough.
Respectable. Decent, albeit short-ranged firepower. Will get outshoot by practically any other "shooty" deathstars. Slow but at least has some shooting to make up for it. Scary in combat assuming they live long enough to strike back against enemy deathstars. Resiliency questionable at best due to lack of invuln's or good cover saves.
This is another bubble-deathstar. It does have some potential but is mediocre at best IMO.
Dubd797 wrote: I don't know about anyone else but I am pumped for this! Brilliant idea
Thanks.
Dakkamite wrote: Hey man, for the Nob Bikers Deathstar, consider dropping Kombi-Skorchas on those four klaw-less Nobs and giving them Big Choppas instead - this could give them a better chance to wound some of the big, nasty deathstar units.
Might be worth dropping a Biker and some kit to max out those Power Klaws as well. Bikers are pretty meh in CC without klaws.
I think I will swap out the Attack Squigs for some big choppas. I've already got 7 PK's in that unit, but thanks.
As much as I championed them I doubt it :(. Against the Tau I reckon a white wash, but against the eldar everything will be psyhic tests on 3d6 and DTW on 5 plus (from the horror squad itself a 4plus) and against dragio wing again 5plus from the heralds and LoC and 4 plus from the squad DTW's.
Yeah, they're not perfect, but their complement - the LoC - just may surprise you. Under the right conditions (i.e. rewards and psychic powers), that guy can fight an entire deathstar all by himself!
Dakkamite wrote: Now just want to see what the deal is. Nob Bikers could potentially kite a slow melee deathstar (not that any propa Ork would do tha). I honestly reckon these sorts of shenanigans might need to be curtailed.
I'm very tempted to include nob bikers into the fray. Of all the other deathstars not on my "list", I think nob bikers most warrant inclusion.
They will, however, have major problems against Draigowing, but can still beat them on a good day.
VorackTheGrim wrote: I know this isn't exactly a "death star" but I wanted to get my vote in.
Huron Blackheart 160
Sorcerer, level 3, spell familiar 125
3 Obliterators, mark of nurgle, veterans of the long war 237
3 Obliterators, mark of nurgle, veterans of the long war 237
3 Obliterators, mark of nurgle, veterans of the long war 237
I actually love this combination, though I'm thinking Abaddon in there instead or perhaps 2 2+/3++ sorcerers.
Too bad it's not actually a deathstar list, but rather, a mini-star.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/26 15:40:58
Eldrad using own powers (see fortune...)
Karandras
Vect
6 harlequins with kisses
2 harlequins with kisses and fusion pistols
Troupe master with power axe
Shadowseer with kiss.
All this meets up to 940 odd points, and 600pts of it one 3 models.
Resiliency. stealth plus shrouded leads to a constant 4+ cover, 2 + in cover. Not that survivable. Add in fortune *which WILL go off, he can try twice, rolls 3 dice and picks lowest, and RoW and RoWitnessing cancel each other out* and that become a lot better. Both Karandras and Vect can tank at the front of the unit with there 2+/+ re-rollable. Karandras at front to LOS onto vect for AP2. Speed is an issue but karandras lets his unit infaltrate closer. Then movement and fleet should catch up.
In combat on the charge thats 36 rending wounds which re-roll 1's and to wound *doom will also go off...*, 7 AP3 attacks that wound on 3's and will hit on 3's, re-rolling. 7 stength 8 AP2 hits and 3 woud on 2's ignore armour hits. In other words it hits like a brick. Hit and run means we can keep FC and keep shooting in with fusion pistols + vects ap2 blast. So, what do you think, im sure you have already thought of them.
I honestly think POM + 9 shrikes w/ LW&BS, TS, AG, DS is the strongest deathstar. They are mobile, have weight of dice in shooting and bring everyone to less or equal to their initiative value in combat. Not many deathstars put out mass s8 shooting, just cc.
I just cant see the LoC doing well agains the palaies, he may be toughness 6 but with perferred enemy and possible str10 the palies will force weapon him to death without eternal warrior.
For me Jim, try one game with the DP (three biomancys) and one game with the LoC, see if there is much difference!. Enfeebling the palies and tau is huge as the massed str6 becomes instal kill on failed saves (palaies and tau being 2 wounds, eldar doesnt matter as much)
40kGlobal AOA member, regular of Overlords podcast club and 4tk gaming store. Blogger @ http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/ 06/2013: 1st at War of the Roses ETC warm up.
08/213: 3rd place double teams at 4tk
09/2013: 7th place, best daemon and non eldar/tau army at Northern Warlords GT
10/2013: 3rd/4th at Battlefield Birmingham
11/2013: 5th at GT heat 3
11/2013: 5th COG 2k at 4tk
01/2014: 34th at Caledonian
03/2014: 3rd GT Final
skyfi wrote: I thought nob bikers only got 4+ cover? 3+ was when they turbo boosted in 5th ed iirc?
Also, I wouldn't run that loadout on bikers myself. i would drop squigs, add at least 1 pole on a normal nob in case both bosses go by wayside, and add a PK over the squigs on a normal nob. 3-4 s8-9 attacks per round for 25 points is better than 2 extra s9-10 attacks for 30.
They do have 4+ cover, which becomes 3+ if they turbo-boost.
How about some Big Choppas?
If I drop the 2 attack squigs on the warbosses, would you rather get:
1. 1x Power Klaw and 1x Bosspole on a nob biker.
of
2. 4x Big Choppas, 1x Bosspole and 1x Kombi-skorcha?
Of those I vote for option 2. 4x big choppas 1 boss pole and 1x kombi skorhca but I would edit it as thus
4x big choppa, 1 boss pole, 1 grot orderly
(for that FNP re roll when painboy or a boss going to eat dust).. I don't think extra skorcha will make up more points than that re-roll might save. I also think wazdakka is a liability with no cybork body. Having 2 warbosses means 1 can leave the unit and charge into paladins and absorb overwatch, while the other and the bikers just coast on in.
"The List" I originally posted edited and revised:
zaak wrote: I honestly think POM + 9 shrikes w/ LW&BS, TS, AG, DS is the strongest deathstar. They are mobile, have weight of dice in shooting and bring everyone to less or equal to their initiative value in combat. Not many deathstars put out mass s8 shooting, just cc.
Not bad...durability may be an issue: POM is only 3W with 3+, and the Shrikes are more or less expendable shooters, 1W 5+ isnt very tough. This isn't really a deathstar, more like a glass cannon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/26 17:29:36
zaak wrote: I honestly think POM + 9 shrikes w/ LW&BS, TS, AG, DS is the strongest deathstar. They are mobile, have weight of dice in shooting and bring everyone to less or equal to their initiative value in combat. Not many deathstars put out mass s8 shooting, just cc.
Not bad...durability may be an issue: POM is only 3W with 3+, and the Shrikes are more or less expendable shooters, 1W 5+ isnt very tough. This isn't really a deathstar, more like a glass cannon.
I see where you're coming from. If we are talking about deathstars acting independently without army support then warriors with 3w can eat up some rending shots, flamer templates and bolter like shots. Not much s8 shooting comes from deathstars. Only a couple need to get through (4-5 + POM) to make short work of just about anything. The problem with warriors and shrikes is T4 but there's no battlecannons or vindicators in deathstars... maybe orbital bombardment.
Shrikes are 3W T4. You're thinking Gargoyles (but those are 1W 6+ iirc)
Just looked at the profile again, just noticed the 3 in the wounds section (i must have sped read)
That makes the unit overall more durable, but the 5+ is still a hard knock on them; if they had a 4/3+, then we are in the 'might be a deathstar' category, but they are a glass cannon nonetheless.
Automatically Appended Next Post Saw someone make a DA deathstar list with Loth, and that got me thinking, what list could i make?
Here it is...
Spoiler:
HQ
Magister Servin Loth(205pt.) The Armour of Selket; Force Weapon; Bolt pistol; Frag grenades; Krak grenades
Forgefather Vulkan He'Stan (190pt.) Artificer armour; Bolt Pistol; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Kesare's Mantle; The Spear of Vulkan; Digital weapons; The Gauntlet of the Forge;
Mechanicus
Ravenwing
Deathwing
Blood Ravens 2nd Company (C:SM)
4500 pts
2000pts 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
2000
WIP
3000
8000 
same for the necron list with the flyers.
10x Ravenwing Black Knights
-head Loth last night. 
