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I have been a long time 40K player and I've decided to try something new. Having read cypher's Fantasy Tactics articles I'd like to know how to apply them to an O&C Army; i.e. What units excel at tarpitting, what should I use as a war machine hunter etc.

But first off, I've taken a quick look at the Army book and I was wondering:

1. Would a Black Orc Warboss with the Armour of Gork be worth the points and if not, what would you recommend?

2. What is the best unit size for Black Orcs?

Thank you for your time.

1 - It's a nifty item but I think you would perhaps be better investing in some sort of Magic Weaponry. Anything that increases initiative is a common choice. So is Basha's Axe. I've never used the item though, so take my advice with a pinch of salt.

2 - Personally, I like to run them in quite big units, a horde of 30 being my preference. They can work in smaller numbers but I think, like with any Orcs, the more the better.

Orcs are an interesting army, as there are certain things that really must be done to be competitive. The main one being quelling Animosity in your units. Black Orcs are good for this and I though I haven't played Orcs in a while, I have found that the units do not have to be all that big, maybe 12 up to 18 or so, but I have also seen many large units in horde like said above. This will probably work the best though,

Black Orc Warboss' are really always good, the Armour of Gork is also good, it may be worth taking especially if he is really in the enemies face, which he will be,

I am sure someone else will have better insight to the Orcs than I though.

Orc combat characters are rarely worth their cost, barring hero BSB's because those are mandatory nowadays.

Black orcs follow the same rules for most low initiative combat blocks, hordes of 30+. 50 is ideal because this gives you 20 wounds before your attacks are affected.

HOWEVER. If you want a competitive OnG army, combat is not the way to do so. You should go for the shooty list. Double Rock Lobba, Double Doom Divers and a big blob of savages. That way, you can deal with most armies at a distance because your units aren't that fighty. The reason people take savages is because they're the most effective for combat out of what you have due to the unitwide ward save.

A warboss, for the the leadership and the waaaagh is worth it.
Adding +1 to combat res army wide and +D3 to the generals unit can really pay off. Especially in deep units that strip steadfast.
You aren't going to be able to make an orc character a huge beat stick, so you might as well stick with survivable. I usually just go 4+ ward and ASF.

-Matt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, just another point if you do want combat orcs.
Gorbad Ironclaw.
Big 'Uns are great.
9 points gives you WS4 S4 T4 with 5+ armor and parry, along with +1 strength in the first round of combat.

The unit hits a sweet spot. Tough enough to not get totally plowed through, strong enough to deal some decent damage, and cheap enough to be taken in large numbers.

Should really have said this in the OP but the army isn't really meant to be competitive. That said, I do prefer winning to losing.

My thinking on the Armour Of Gork was to make him much more survivable.

My reckoning on the Black Orcs was 1/2 units of 20-25 in blocks of 5 wide by 4-5 deep for the rank bonus

Would Boar Boyz be good War machine hunters?

 The Crusader wrote:
Should really have said this in the OP but the army isn't really meant to be competitive. That said, I do prefer winning to losing.

My thinking on the Armour Of Gork was to make him much more survivable.

My reckoning on the Black Orcs was 1/2 units of 20-25 in blocks of 5 wide by 4-5 deep for the rank bonus

Would Boar Boyz be good War machine hunters?

Increases toughness by D3 is less survivable than just a good armor save and 4+ ward. The armor and ward save a quite a bit cheaper too.

Yeah, 4+ ward pretty much is required for any custom Lord you want to hang around.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

HOWEVER. If you want a competitive OnG army, combat is not the way to do so. You should go for the shooty list. Double Rock Lobba, Double Doom Divers and a big blob of savages. That way, you can deal with most armies at a distance because your units aren't that fighty. The reason people take savages is because they're the most effective for combat out of what you have due to the unitwide ward save.

What the feth is up with GW and their goddamn shooty Orks. Shooty Lizardmen too apparantly.

Orks smash. Thats what they do. This is what their lists should be good at, but they're not.

Well, even at shooting, Orks are terrible and outclassed by Goblins

 The Crusader wrote:
I have been a long time 40K player and I've decided to try something new. Having read cypher's Fantasy Tactics articles I'd like to know how to apply them to an O&C Army; i.e. What units excel at tarpitting,....

As a rule of thumb orcs dont excel at tarpitting, they have few means to keep units in the fight if they lose, so the plan is to win; or get autostubborn with BSB and general in range' just like anyone else. IMHO that isn't a tarpit, thats standard line infantry strategy in 8th, orcs being cherap and goblins being even cheaper are good at it though. If you want to outstubborn the enemy goblins are a good tool to use, because you can have lots of them and rank them up deep.

If you are looking for solo units that will hold one their own without support you are limited to two choices. The Giant is Ld10 and does nasty things and can be relied upon to hold the line, better yet as pump wagons. Pump wagons are only T4 and W3 for 45pts but what is overlooked is that they are unbreakable. While their movement is unreliable but slow enough to be predictable. O&G are one of the few armies out their able to field large number of unbreakable units without the side effect of instability. You can have up to four pump wagons in a standard list and if they get in a fight they are there for the duration, however long or short that is.

what should I use as a war machine hunter etc.

BO bosses are an autoincluce for me since they are so much better than regular Orc bosses not to mention their quell animosity rule. So yes, BO WB is a nice choice.
BO WB with that Axe of the last WAAAGH! on boar is an awesome R&F killer in larger games.
Saying 25BO´s is the best is another not so good hint imo. While 25 is used a lot to hunt down monsters and stuff you should not per definition go with 25 it depends on your playstyle and how you are building your army. and of course how many points you play.

Pump Wagons are awesome but you cant field a lot of them since they are no core choice but special.
Goblins excel at tarpitting if you dont have stupid restrictions like not more than 40´eadz per unit.

Ork shooting is kinda awesome if you take savage orcs. They hit as hard as their brothers and while not being tagged as sharpshooters they can pump out a lot of arrows per round.

Pump wagons are 2:1 so you can field 4 of them in a normal game.
O&G excel at tarpitting. Thinking that steadfast isn't tarpitting is flawed. Skaven slaves are the best pits in the game, because they are so cheap they should always be steadfast.
For black orcs, I like 12-15 as a great shaman bunker, or 20-35 as a combat unit.

I think the Black Orc Warboss is too pricy. You pay 45 points for heavy armor, +1 WS and quell animosity. I'd rather free those points up and hope for the best with animosity.

Is Immune to Psychology any good? Because he also has that.

 The Crusader wrote:
Is Immune to Psychology any good? Because he also has that.

It can be both a blessing and a curse depending on the situation, but given that the majority of the unit must have ItP for it to still remain in effect, he's likely to lose it unless he's with a unit of BOs, who would be immune anyway. Gonna go ahead and agree with HawaiiMatt here. Also, slamming all those quell animosity hits into a unit that's not of a decent size and has a crappy save could well cause more damage than it's really worth.

Am I the only one who rather have "all weapon" choices on a lord who is not at the top of the duel food chain and give him 100pts worth of defensive stuff to make him good against anything but duel lords?
Using a regular WB means you kinda have to spend points on weapons maybe even magic weapons while he is fodder for most other races lords. Plus that one point difference in WS makes a lot. I rarely try to kill other lords in duels but there are many heroes out there with WS 6 and hitting on 3´s instead of 4´s is an advantage I dont want to skip.
I usually take orc big bosses to pimp my regular orcs a bit but they barely have anything with them.

Indeed. That's why I was loathe to give him a magic weapon, being S8 in the first round with a Great Weapon. Or S6 most of the time.

 The Crusader wrote:
Indeed. That's why I was loathe to give him a magic weapon, being S8 in the first round with a Great Weapon. Or S6 most of the time.

Choose the great weapon and your survivability takes a hit.
I'd rather take the sword of antiheroes. If you're not facing enemy characters, you get 4 S6 attacks in the first round (5 attacks if you go savage).
If your opponent throws any characters at you (or your unit) you become a real killing machine, for fairly cheap.

-Matt

My initial load out was the Obsidian Blade and the Armour of Fortune. Would that be any good?

 The Crusader wrote:
My initial load out was the Obsidian Blade and the Armour of Fortune. Would that be any good?

I think for the same points as the Obsidian Blade you'd do better with the Basha's Axe. You'll almost negate armor saves based just on your high S of the orc lords (It'll be S7 AP on the first round, S6 AP every round after) and you'll get an extra attack. Even better against the stunties, of course. If you can spare the extra few points for the Armor of Destiny instead, I would.

I think it was the Armour of Fortune, either way the one with the 4+ Ward. My other preferred choice was the Sword of Swift Striking for ASF