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 Janthkin wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except in a pod he will reduce scatter if he would mishap (apart from off table)

And it gets a 6" disembark move now, so can correct for most bad scatters.

Is it not still 2" for disembark from a pod?

Nope, FAQ.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, so a reasonable opponent should also expect you to use ALL the shooting rules, not just the ones you WANT to use - meaning Out of Range and Out of Sight would also apply

But what is the "range" of Spirit Leech? All it says is units within 6" take the Leadership test.

So if I had a unit of 8 Boyz in a congo line exactly 2" apart, with the closest being exactly 6" away, and they roll a 15 for their Leadership test how many suffer wounds (assuming no cover or invulnerable saves)?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, so a rasonable opponent should also expect you to use ALL the shooting rules, not just the ones you WANT to use - meaning Out of Range and Out of Sight would also apply

Just came from a tournament where the TOs who have been running and playing for years played it differently. Ruled it can wound past 6 and hit oos, based on it being a special rule.

Using the shooting rules is something people do to make their own life's easier and while I agree the FAQ allowing cover saves seems to back that up, there is no RAW past cover saves.

The Doom debate will rage on till Janruary when a new codex drives us to models we don't own.

Happyjew - its range is "units within 6"" - it just defines the range differently to normal ranges (like range: template for a flamer is different to range: 8")

Edit: as for TOs ruling differently, that is fine, as essentually Doom to function requires a houserule

RAW it does not function at all, as you have no permission to roll to-wound a non-shooting, non-CC attack.

However 6th has brought back LOS and Range as being key elements in assigning wounds to models, so as a TO myself, playing for years, I rule it can only wound models in range (which is the whoel unit) and in LOS of the doom.

And I'd rule, based on The Soul Blaze precedent, that its a special rule causing the wounds and doesn't need LoS or range to the whole unit.

No deny witch, Burn it with fire, (shooting is the best way to kill it fast.

rigeld2 wrote:
And I'd rule, based on The Soul Blaze precedent, that its a special rule causing the wounds and doesn't need LoS or range to the whole unit.

The main difference being Soulblaze does not emanate from a model like the Doom's ability does. The range of the Doom's attack is similar to a Nova Psychic power.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
And I'd rule, based on The Soul Blaze precedent, that its a special rule causing the wounds and doesn't need LoS or range to the whole unit.

The main difference being Soulblaze does not emanate from a model like the Doom's ability does. The range of the Doom's attack is similar to a Nova Psychic power.

I can see that argument, even if I disagree with it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Then you have no ability to roll to wound, and then allocate wounds, as these are all under the Shooting section.

The ability doesn't roll to wound.

 Janthkin wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Then you have no ability to roll to wound, and then allocate wounds, as these are all under the Shooting section.

The ability doesn't roll to wound.

Uh Oh.

 Janthkin wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Then you have no ability to roll to wound, and then allocate wounds, as these are all under the Shooting section.

The ability doesn't roll to wound.

Then you have no ability to allocate wounds, as it isnt a shooting attack

The point stands

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Then you have no ability to roll to wound, and then allocate wounds, as these are all under the Shooting section.

The ability doesn't roll to wound.

Then you have no ability to allocate wounds, as it isnt a shooting attack

The point stands

Erm, no. He was saying that you cited a requirement to use the shooting rules to roll to wound. Spirit Leech doesn't roll to wound as it has no STR value. The only thing it's "missing" is a method of allocating wounds.

...which is the same overall point. You need a method to allocate wounds, which is under the shooting rules.

I mistakenly thought it was missing TWO things, as I'd forgotten the lack of one, however you still need ONE thing that is missing. One or two things missing still results in a requirement to use the shooting rule, hence "the point stands"

It's not a requirement to use the shooting rule - it just needs a method.

The Soul Blaze precedent is a perfectly valid method. I could see them going either way really.

Oh definitely, however given it has come from a model, in a fixed position, which doesnt have the issues of vector strike et al, Random Allocation isnt as pertinent. I think LOS shoudl come into play.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Oh definitely, however given it has come from a model, in a fixed position, which doesnt have the issues of vector strike et al, Random Allocation isnt as pertinent. I think LOS shoudl come into play.

Soul Blaze doesn't use Random Allocation.

It uses the "sufferer chooses" method of allocation. page 42 BRB. Soul Blaze even must roll to wound and doesn't refer to the shooting rules at all.

rigeld2 wrote:
It's not a requirement to use the shooting rule - it just needs a method.

The Soul Blaze precedent is a perfectly valid method. I could see them going either way really.

Soul blaze also doesnt allow cover saves, the dooms ability does though there is where another connection to shooting attacks comes from, no other attacks in any phase allows cover saves iirc?

Soul Blaze specifically doesn't allow them... which doesn't mean anything really.

All wounds from any source allow cover saves unless otherwise specified - shooting phase, movement phase, even Assault phase (if it's not from a CC attack) wounds can be saved by cover.

Which other method inflicts wounds outside of the shooting phase that allows cover saves rigeld?, interested as I couldnt think of any?.

I know overwatch does but then it is treated as a shooting phase.

The closest power fluff wise is Mind War, which rquires LOS, so I dont think that requiring LOS (so Out of Sight applynig) is that far fetched.

MarkyMark wrote:
Which other method inflicts wounds outside of the shooting phase that allows cover saves rigeld?, interested as I couldnt think of any?.

I know overwatch does but then it is treated as a shooting phase.

Vehicle Explodes results.

Bombs also "allow" cover saves, and theyre performed in the movement phase

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The closest power fluff wise is Mind War, which rquires LOS, so I dont think that requiring LOS (so Out of Sight applynig) is that far fetched.

I don't think it's far fetched but I do think that it
a) neuters the ability more than it should
b) is a significant change from 5th (in a bad way) and therefore should be clarified
c) isn't a "shoe in" for requiring LoS.

Like I said, I have no problems playing it either way - I just don't think it's as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

As much as I hate the Doom, I think this portion is getting a little on the crazy side. It's a psychic blast and Tyranids already have abilities that ignore LOS.

I'll still complain about the Doom, but I won't worry about LOS with it.

 TheKbob wrote:
As much as I hate the Doom, I think this portion is getting a little on the crazy side. It's a psychic blast and Tyranids already have abilities that ignore LOS.

I'll still complain about the Doom, but I won't worry about LOS with it.

We're talking about Spirit Leech (which is not a psychic power) not Cataclysm.

 Happyjew wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
As much as I hate the Doom, I think this portion is getting a little on the crazy side. It's a psychic blast and Tyranids already have abilities that ignore LOS.

I'll still complain about the Doom, but I won't worry about LOS with it.

We're talking about Spirit Leech (which is not a psychic power) not Cataclysm.

Oh, then I dunno then.

Quick question, can FNP be used for wounds caused by the Spirit Leech ability? I'm assuming it can as it's not instant death.

Tyragorn wrote:
Quick question, can FNP be used for wounds caused by the Spirit Leech ability? I'm assuming it can as it's not instant death.

you just answered your own question :-)

At least taking Feel No Pain makes sense than cover saves, how does a tree being in the way possibly save you from having your soul eaten? Does it get caught in the branches or something?