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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 05:27:55
Subject: Guns got sold
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
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djones520 wrote:There is arguments that finding ways to provide better mental health capabilities would lower things like mass shootings. But I've never seen an argument that we need to keep track of EVERYONE who has mental health issues. Considering that is most of the countries population it seems, that would be an extensive list.
I don't recall if it was this thread or the other one, but I believe it was Grey Templar who specifically suggested that in order to prevent everyone from needing a background check to screen out mental illness, there should instead be a national mental illness registry of people, who can then be precluded from obtaining firearms.
He even suggested doing so because a regular gun registry was something Hitler did.
It almost made my brain bleed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 05:43:18
Subject: Guns got sold
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Hallowed Canoness
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You can't discriminate against me because the voices talk to me. You're just jealous cause they don't talk to you and share their good ideas!
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 06:36:22
Subject: Guns got sold
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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Fire is always a good idea, right? Keeps you warm, fends of wild animals, fire!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 06:36:29
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 11:11:03
Subject: Guns got sold
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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d-usa wrote:
The NRA?
People in this thread?
Folks in congress?
People on FoxNews?
It would be interesting to see how many Dakka regulars would be on such a list.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 11:16:41
Subject: Guns got sold
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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Frazzled wrote: d-usa wrote:
The NRA?
People in this thread?
Folks in congress?
People on FoxNews?
It would be interesting to see how many Dakka regulars would be on such a list. 
There was a thread a couple months ago with people basically saying what disorders they had. There was quite a few folks.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 12:44:26
Subject: Guns got sold
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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I still don't see why it's such a problem the goverment knowing what guns you own. You have to register cars for example (in this country at least, it may be different in the states?) but I've never seen anyone argue that that's a bad idea.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 13:01:46
Subject: Guns got sold
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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grrrfranky wrote:I still don't see why it's such a problem the goverment knowing what guns you own. You have to register cars for example (in this country at least, it may be different in the states?) but I've never seen anyone argue that that's a bad idea.
It's been pointed out repeatedly that if the government knows where the guns are, they know whose door to knock on when they wish to confiscate them.... We already had an issue with a tyrannical state running us, didn't like it and so we used guns to remove that state, and impose our own government. Also, it is much better in many of our eyes to defend ourselves, rather than hope the police can show up in a timely manner, should something terrible happen, as the police only react after a crime has occurred, they do not really prevent them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 13:04:10
Subject: Guns got sold
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 13:06:19
Subject: Guns got sold
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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exactly. I think that it's also somewhat important to consider that in many areas of the US, some of our counties and states are larger than most European countries, population density is also much less, and so emergency services tend to have much greater response times simply due to distance (never mind the fact that our Government Officials seem to love cutting the funding to emergency services that allow us to have adequate numbers in the police, fire, and medical fields)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 17:59:27
Subject: Guns got sold
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Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant
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grrrfranky wrote:I still don't see why it's such a problem the goverment knowing what guns you own. You have to register cars for example (in this country at least, it may be different in the states?) but I've never seen anyone argue that that's a bad idea.
Haven't you ever seen Red Dawn? It'll let the Russians know who has the weapons!
As I understand it people are afraid that when the new world order comes, they will go house to house taking your guns away. Considering the amount of guns in the US and the "Don't tread on me" attitude of most serious gun owners, I find this argument rather hard to swallow. There is no way they come and collect weapons, and if they did there are enough guns to resist that move.
I don't think registration is such a bad idea, hell I think every 2 years or so you should have to show that you still have the weapon. This could help stop the illegal trade of weapons.
I'm not really a gun guy, I've gone shooting and enjoyed it. I think people should be able to have guns....any guns they want really, as long as they pass a background check and take a class. I also think the punishment for carrying an unregistered gun or carrying a gun without at CC license should be pretty severe.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/01 18:07:22
"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 18:39:47
Subject: Guns got sold
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Assuming they show up at all... Automatically Appended Next Post: Andrew1975 wrote: grrrfranky wrote:I still don't see why it's such a problem the goverment knowing what guns you own. You have to register cars for example (in this country at least, it may be different in the states?) but I've never seen anyone argue that that's a bad idea.
Haven't you ever seen Red Dawn? It'll let the Russians know who has the weapons!
As I understand it people are afraid that when the new world order comes, they will go house to house taking your guns away. Considering the amount of guns in the US and the "Don't tread on me" attitude of most serious gun owners, I find this argument rather hard to swallow. There is no way they come and collect weapons, and if they did there are enough guns to resist that move.
I don't think registration is such a bad idea, hell I think every 2 years or so you should have to show that you still have the weapon. This could help stop the illegal trade of weapons.
I'm not really a gun guy, I've gone shooting and enjoyed it. I think people should be able to have guns....any guns they want really, as long as they pass a background check and take a class. I also think the punishment for carrying an unregistered gun or carrying a gun without at CC license should be pretty severe.
Considering NY is threatening to do that right now, and Washington (or Oregon I forget) nearly passed just such a measure its not an empty threat.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 18:40:57
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 18:50:23
Subject: Re:Guns got sold
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Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant
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Considering NY is threatening to do that right now, and Washington (or Oregon I forget) nearly passed just such a measure its not an empty threat.
Considering what, I made a lot of points. If you mean going house to house and collecting weapons. GOOD LUCK with that.
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"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 18:53:49
Subject: Re:Guns got sold
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Andrew1975 wrote:
Considering NY is threatening to do that right now, and Washington (or Oregon I forget) nearly passed just such a measure its not an empty threat.
Considering what, I made a lot of points. If you mean going house to house and collecting weapons. GOOD LUCK with that.
Why not good luck with that? As the antigunners say - "you don't think all those people are going to put up a fight against the US government do you?"
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 19:00:41
Subject: Re:Guns got sold
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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Gun control efforts in Washington State failed. No idea what Oregon is doing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 19:21:49
Subject: Re:Guns got sold
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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Andrew1975 wrote:
Considering NY is threatening to do that right now, and Washington (or Oregon I forget) nearly passed just such a measure its not an empty threat.
Considering what, I made a lot of points. If you mean going house to house and collecting weapons. GOOD LUCK with that.
Confiscation of civilian firearms
Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, and Deputy U.S. Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.[79][80]
Angered citizens, backed by the National Rifle Association and other organizations, filed protests over the constitutionality of such an order and the difficulty in tracking seizures, as paperwork was rarely filed during the searches. Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association, defended the right of affected citizens to retain firearms, saying that, "What we’ve seen in Louisiana - the breakdown of law and order in the aftermath of disaster - is exactly the kind of situation where the Second Amendment was intended to allow citizens to protect themselves." The searches received little news coverage, though reaction from groups such as the NRA, the Second Amendment Foundation, and Gun Owners of America was immediate and heated, and a lawsuit was filed September 22 by the NRA and SAF on behalf of two firearm owners whose firearms were seized. On September 23, the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana issued a restraining order to bar further firearms confiscations.[79]
After refusing to admit that it had any seized firearms, the city revealed in mid-March that it did have a cache of some 1000 firearms seized after the hurricane; this disclosure came after the NRA filed a motion in court to hold the city in contempt for failure to comply with the U.S. District Court's earlier order to return all seized firearms. On April 14, 2006, it was announced that the city will begin to return seized firearms, however as of early 2008, many firearms were still in police possession, and the matter was still in court.[79] The matter was finally settled in favor of the NRA in October 2008. Per the agreement, the city was required to relax the strict proof of ownership requirements previously used, and was to release firearms to their owners with an affidavit claiming ownership and a background check to verify that the owner is legally able to possess a firearm.[81]
Louisiana legislator Steve Scalise introduced Louisiana House Bill 760, which would prohibit confiscation of firearms in a state of emergency, unless the seizure is pursuant to the investigation of a crime, or if the seizure is necessary to prevent immediate harm to the officer or another individual. On June 8, 2006, HB 760 was signed into law.[82] 21 other states joined Louisiana in enacting similar laws. A federal law prohibiting seizure of lawfully held firearms during an emergency, the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006, passed in the House with a vote of 322 to 99, and in the Senate by 84-16. The bill was signed into law by President Bush on October 9, 2006.[83]
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_civilian_firearms
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 19:25:59
Subject: Guns got sold
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Additionally there has been much scuttlebutt in the last two years about the ATF coming to people's houses and asking to see if they still own a rifle. This is typically along the border and typically people with hispanic sounding names and EVILLLZ assault rifles. They are looking for straw buyers (I guess). It has been verified that for a period of time, if you bought two or more EVILZZ GUNZ in a day or two in South Texas you had a good chance of ATF showing up, asking to see them. The NRA threatened to sue over it IIRC.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 20:29:42
Subject: Guns got sold
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Hallowed Canoness
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Government is best treated like mushrooms when it comes to ALL facets of one's private life. Feed'em gak and keep it in the dark.
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 20:46:04
Subject: Guns got sold
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Sounds advice.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 21:29:24
Subject: Re:Guns got sold
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Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant
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Frazzled wrote: Andrew1975 wrote:
Considering NY is threatening to do that right now, and Washington (or Oregon I forget) nearly passed just such a measure its not an empty threat.
Considering what, I made a lot of points. If you mean going house to house and collecting weapons. GOOD LUCK with that.
Why not good luck with that? As the antigunners say - "you don't think all those people are going to put up a fight against the US government do you?"
Yeah, I would love to see that. There is no way they could ever take the weapons by force. They could try it really quick like they did in New Orleans, but its never going to happen in mass.
I don't really have a problem with the ATF stopping by and asking to see guns, bad gun owners give good gun owners a bad name. However the ATF needs to clean up their yard first, before they come into mine, didn't that busted sting make them one of the largest suppliers of illegal arms in the US?  I'd probably use the pop in as an opportunity to point that out, while showing them my legal weapons. "They are all legal, never bought a single on from you folks!"
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"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 22:59:30
Subject: Re:Guns got sold
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Breotan wrote:Gun control efforts in Washington State failed. No idea what Oregon is doing.
AFAIK the Oregon Sherriff's are more successfully doing the Colorado thing than the Colorado Sherriffs are doing (ie. publicly stating they will not enforce any law that further prohibits the 2nd Amendment), and thus far, to my knowledge no moves have been made because I believe that the governor himself is an avid hunter/fisherman/outdoorsy type, so he'd most likely not sign much into law.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:39:43
Subject: Guns got sold
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I'm curious now. Why do Americans have such MASSIVE trust issues with their own Governments? (apart from the fact that almost everyone outside of America thinks your politicians are absolutely bonkers anyway)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:46:43
Subject: Guns got sold
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Soladrin wrote:I'm curious now. Why do Americans have such MASSIVE trust issues with their own Governments? (apart from the fact that almost everyone outside of America thinks your politicians are absolutely bonkers anyway)
There are many out there who listen to, and believe their chosen political talking head (be it Rush, or Glenn Beck, or Olberman, or Anderson Cooper, etc.). It could also just be that so many of us are taught that if you work hard and earn your way, etc. etc. but then turn around and see the "hand outs" going to those who didn't earn them... Or many people were alive for things like Watergate, and more recently the Clinton scandal, etc.
Personally, I find that there are many, many reasons to NOT trust the government (and the same goes of every country), it also seems to be ingrained into the very constitution (anti-search and seizure amendment, anti-housing soldiers in private homes amendment, etc.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:51:42
Subject: Guns got sold
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Well, I do agree that probably most countries have trust issues with their governments. Hell I don't trust my government at all.
But distrust to the point of arming yourself just seems like... a VERY extreme case.
I really don't mean this in an offensive manner. (Which it will probably sound like anyway now that I've said that  ) But I'm kind of suprised there aren't more politicians being killed by civilians over there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:52:51
Subject: Guns got sold
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Thanks for the answers. So as I understand it, the main concern is that if the government knows where all the guns are, at some unspecified point in the future they will knock on your front door and confiscate them? For the record, although I don't own a gun (on account of living in the UK), I have really enjoyed the few chances I've gotten to go shooting, and have no problem with private ownership of guns. I just can't put myself into the mindset where it's such a big deal for them to be registered.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:53:53
Subject: Guns got sold
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Soladrin wrote:Well, I do agree that probably most countries have trust issues with their governments. Hell I don't trust my government at all.
But distrust to the point of arming yourself just seems like... a VERY extreme case.
I really don't mean this in an offensive manner. (Which it will probably sound like anyway now that I've said that  ) But I'm kind of suprised there aren't more politicians being killed by civilians over there.
Eh... we're not arming ourselves solely because we fear our government.
We just like our gunz... 'cuz... 'Murrica!
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:55:08
Subject: Guns got sold
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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Soladrin wrote:I'm curious now. Why do Americans have such MASSIVE trust issues with their own Governments? (apart from the fact that almost everyone outside of America thinks your politicians are absolutely bonkers anyway)
Power corrupts. The government serves the people, not the other way around. The distrust probably stems from a combination of those two ideas. Plus we've seen a lot of other governments become oppressive and don't think ours is so awesome that it could never happen to us if we gave it the chance.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:55:52
Subject: Guns got sold
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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whembly wrote: Soladrin wrote:Well, I do agree that probably most countries have trust issues with their governments. Hell I don't trust my government at all.
But distrust to the point of arming yourself just seems like... a VERY extreme case.
I really don't mean this in an offensive manner. (Which it will probably sound like anyway now that I've said that  ) But I'm kind of suprised there aren't more politicians being killed by civilians over there.
Eh... we're not arming ourselves solely because we fear our government.
We just like our gunz... 'cuz... 'Murrica!
Same reason most 'Muricans love cars that go 180 MPH, and are only capable of turning left, while most of you Euro types prefer cars that wouldn't in a million years be street legal, have more aerodynamic qualities than your entire Air Force, but are capable of turning left AND right as needed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:56:01
Subject: Guns got sold
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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whembly wrote: Soladrin wrote:Well, I do agree that probably most countries have trust issues with their governments. Hell I don't trust my government at all.
But distrust to the point of arming yourself just seems like... a VERY extreme case.
I really don't mean this in an offensive manner. (Which it will probably sound like anyway now that I've said that  ) But I'm kind of suprised there aren't more politicians being killed by civilians over there.
Eh... we're not arming ourselves solely because we fear our government.
We just like our gunz... 'cuz... 'Murrica!
And this. Americans aren't armed just because they distrust the government. There is a pretty large variety of reasons to want to own a gun in America.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 23:56:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:57:29
Subject: Guns got sold
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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What I seem to be getting out of this is that American culture has a lot of fear ingrained into it for some reason. :\
Yeah, I realize the majority of gun owners are probably doing it primarily for recreational use, but there does seem to be a culture of needing to defend yourself from everything on your own.
It's kind sad to look at it from the outside really, I don't trust my government to handle economics and all that stuff properly most of the time. But I do damn well trust them to keep me safe.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/02 00:04:32
Subject: Guns got sold
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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grrrfranky wrote:Thanks for the answers. So as I understand it, the main concern is that if the government knows where all the guns are, at some unspecified point in the future they will knock on your front door and confiscate them? For the record, although I don't own a gun (on account of living in the UK), I have really enjoyed the few chances I've gotten to go shooting, and have no problem with private ownership of guns. I just can't put myself into the mindset where it's such a big deal for them to be registered.
Yup...
It's easy to see why American distrust their government with respect to gun registration...
In my state, the MO Department of Revenue released the list of Conceal Carry Permits to the DHS, which is in direct violation of our laws... in which our Governor claimed ignorance, which this letter contradicts his ignorance.
That's just one example...
Hell... our President, when asked, “Do you support state legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns?”... he said yes.
During the 2004 campaign, Obama said: “I continue to support a [federal] ban on concealed carry,” which gives people the impression that your intention is to prevent the states from setting reasonable guidlelines on who can defend themselves outside of their home.
And that's just Obama... there are plenty of other politician advocating these same things and more.
So, it's easy why we're skeptical about "gun registrations". Automatically Appended Next Post: Soladrin wrote:What I seem to be getting out of this is that American culture has a lot of fear ingrained into it for some reason. :\
Yeah, I realize the majority of gun owners are probably doing it primarily for recreational use, but there does seem to be a culture of needing to defend yourself from everything on your own.
It's kind sad to look at it from the outside really, I don't trust my government to handle economics and all that stuff properly most of the time. But I do damn well trust them to keep me safe.
Well... I don't trust them to keep me safe. Government/Society can only do so much (safety regulation, police, fire dept)... but, when seconds counts... I'd rather have that option to arm myself.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 00:06:44
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