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@ thread:
The number of Tau armies were kinda low in number compared to waaay more space elves. That might have a slight bearing on why no Tau were in the Top 8.

Not-so-oddly, I didn't get to play against any elvish armies, but that might be because I was in the kiddee pool, anchoring it practically, so there's that. However, the Wooden Spoon (Axe) went to a Tau/SM player (at the end of yesterday's 'regular' rounds).

Also, when a triangle appears next to the army Type at the top of page 1 that means something is wrong with the list.

I really like Nick Roses army.

The age of Xenos has ended. Begun again has the age of man.

 Theduke07 wrote:
The age of Xenos has ended. Begun again has the age of man.

3 of the top 4 in the championships running right now are Xenos.

Final round of the champs is Hoerger (SM+SM) vs Fennell (Seer council eldar +Deldar).

Very impressed with Eric's run with the Marine codex. Hoping FLG does a Video report in the style of the BAO final for this next game.

 Sasori wrote:

Tyfus wrote:

chipstar1 wrote:
Top 8 lists available here: http://www.torrentoffire.com/3400/las-vegas-open-top-8-lists

Is that necron list of Morris legal ? I thought dark harvest necron warrior troops had to be 10 warriors or more ??

Dark Harvest lists do require 10 warriors.

However, perhaps Frontline allowed him to just take Kutlakh as an HQ, and just not the Dark Harvest list.

There's only two rules regarding taking FW at the LVO

Frontline Gaming wrote:Forge World units will be allowed so long as they are neither a Super Heavy nor Gargantuan Creature. The most recent version of the rules must be used. This means not just the “40K Approved” units, but any that do not fall within the above restrictions.

Forge World Army Lists will not be allowed. Experimental rules are not allowed.

- See more at: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/las-vegas-open/las-vegas-open-warhammer-40k-championships/#sthash.2pK8QIER.dpuf

I am wondering if the Necron player interpreted that to mean he could take any FW unit even if it was specific to the Dark Harvest army list.

As far as I know Forgeworld Army lists are not allowed however if that Necron HQ is listed by himself outside of the army list then he's fair game. I don't own any of the Imperial Armour books so I can't verify for sure.

 y0disisray wrote:
As far as I know Forgeworld Army lists are not allowed however if that Necron HQ is listed by himself outside of the army list then he's fair game. I don't own any of the Imperial Armour books so I can't verify for sure.

Kulakh does not have any proviso to be taken outside of a Dark Harvest army, and so ishould not be allowed in the tournament per the listed rules.

Forge World units will be allowed so long as they are neither a Super Heavy nor Gargantuan Creature. The most recent version of the rules must be used. This means not just the “40K Approved” units, but any that do not fall within the above restrictions.

I don't know if the LVO had a list of 'allowed IA units' and if not, this kind of mistake can easily happen.

Winner:
Alex Fennel's Serpent Spam and Jetseer/Star. Painted pink with daisies, too.

Congrats, Alex.

http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Las-Vegas-Open-Finals/4/leaderboard

For those who want/missed the link to the top 8 lists earlier (one page, derp):
http://www.torrentoffire.com/3400/las-vegas-open-top-8-lists

Wtg Alex! Representing on the west coast (or close enough!)

Congrats Alex !

To absolutely nobodys surprise the elder take it all!

Did they implement the +2 best reroll you can get is +4 for invun saves, or was that another tourney. Seems like it dident slow down jetseer one bit. Or am I wrong and without that rule the top 8 would have been solid jetseer.

They should have enforced it as it was in the tournement packet. Congrats to the winner! I did get a chance to see that pink Eldar army with all the daisies and bedazzled stones it was neat.

 Orock wrote:
To absolutely nobodys surprise the elder take it all!

Did they implement the +2 best reroll you can get is +4 for invun saves, or was that another tourney. Seems like it dident slow down jetseer one bit. Or am I wrong and without that rule the top 8 would have been solid jetseer.

Yes, they did. But I expect that pre-tournament, most people would have bet on Tau having a slight edge on Eldar. Eldar certainly aren't a huge upset, though, but Tau not being in the top 8 at all is surprising, I think.

Ricter wrote:

 Orock wrote:
To absolutely nobodys surprise the elder take it all!

Did they implement the +2 best reroll you can get is +4 for invun saves, or was that another tourney. Seems like it dident slow down jetseer one bit. Or am I wrong and without that rule the top 8 would have been solid jetseer.

Yes, they did. But I expect that pre-tournament, most people would have bet on Tau having a slight edge on Eldar. Eldar certainly aren't a huge upset, though, but Tau not being in the top 8 at all is surprising, I think.

I chaulk it up to grav guns pooping on them far more than elder tanks or rerollable 2+ Personally I have taken out 2 riptides on turn one with my scars. That is pretty demoralizing for the tau player. Of course when you remember to kill all the markerlights first, everything else falls in to place.

Eldar are extremely strong. They can shoot well, they have a lot of speed, and are resilient. I am glad to see that Eric made it to the final table. Do we see Space Marines in the talks of top tier army now? At least white scars with bikes.

Kemp wrote:
Eldar are extremely strong. They can shoot well, they have a lot of speed, and are resilient. I am glad to see that Eric made it to the final table. Do we see Space Marines in the talks of top tier army now? At least white scars with bikes.

Not sure; Eric I believe got a lot of mileage out of using the FW Red Hunters as an integral component of his army. I don't know how much they came into play throughout the tournament, but I know in local playtesting before he went they were pretty critical to the list's functionality.

I think the many different looks and buffs available to marines via the FW chapters and characters and special rules plug-and-play definitely ups their game. Doesn't mean grav guns and white scars bikers aren't a plenty scary army on their own, though, esp. in the hands of a bike vet like Eric.

Eldar and the Jetseer and council and all that is very good list, yes..
But I'm sure the player himself, Alex who won might of also had a little something to do with it, i mean possibly

I am not sure what the overall mix was for the event as a whole.

But looking at the final 8 lists, Forge world looks under represented.

While Alex's army certainly had all the tools needed to take the top spot, I personally think he could have won it all with Orks if he had chose to do so (and painted them pink). I think it was on game 4 on day 2 that I saw him playing a Chaos Space Marine player and whatever turn it was the Chaos player had a couple Helldrakes and multiple bad looking units prowling the board. Alex had a handful of pink units hunkered down. I thought to myself 'looks like Alex is in trouble now'. A few minutes later I look at his table again and the Chaos player has almost nothing left on the table. Congrats Alex!

muwhe wrote:
I am not sure what the overall mix was for the event as a whole.

Here:
http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/Las-Vegas-Open/4/leaderboard

You get the whole she-bang: rankings, points, armies/allies. When you click on each player's name, it gives you another window of who was played, and the stats on that. Torrent of Fire is cool.

muwhe wrote:
But looking at the final 8 lists, Forge world looks under represented.

I'd say I had seen far more FW at the BAO last year. Here, there were few FW items that I saw as I walked about, thudd guns, sabres, IG stuff.

muwhe wrote:
I am not sure what the overall mix was for the event as a whole.

But looking at the final 8 lists, Forge world looks under represented.

It is hard to say. Just by looking at an army from a distance it is hard to tell if they are using FW or not. There were 3 FW artillery armies around the top tables including Garreth who was camped out on table #1 until Adam Tricola beat him with his beast star. There was a Eldar hornet army to make it to table #5 just before the final 8 but I guess he lost his last game. Other armies like SM you can't tell if they are useing FW or not so who knows.

Maybe they will have a poll of the attendees afterward to see what they thought , asking them if they want 0 FW, 0-1 FW, or unlimited FW.

Tsilber wrote:
Eldar and the Jetseer and council and all that is very good list, yes..
But I'm sure the player himself, Alex who won might of also had a little something to do with it, i mean possibly

All the final four and really the top 8 were known regulars on the circuit from the past couple of years dating back well into 5th ed ... Alex is top tier, as were any of the others who could have taken top prize; he also did it with a "nerfed" council via the 2+/4+ rule, so there's that to boot.

In terms of FW, I do know there was Gareth's crazy thuddspam/sabre on a skyshield list in the final 8, as well as Eric who made top table using the FW Red Hunters allied to White Scars to get their benefits.

Kinda seems like you saw what would be expected - FW units added in to power up armies further where such was possible; Eldar don't have access to very many uber buffs from FW (esp. b/c one of their best in FA competes with Swooping Hawks, which are critical for objective-based tourney missions), so you wouldn't see much FW in Eldar armies; same is really true for CSD and to a lesser extent, Tau. Better way to look at it would be to glance at the best performing Imperial armies and see how many did so w/out support from FW (and the first two examples - Eric's SM and Gareth's IG from the top 8 - both used FW heavily in their lists).

I keep hearing really awesome things about how well LVO went ... looking forward to a bunch of feedback making me more jelly and more committed to making it next year. The megamats also looked pretty radical all laid out all over the place.

MVBrandt wrote:

Kemp wrote:
Eldar are extremely strong. They can shoot well, they have a lot of speed, and are resilient. I am glad to see that Eric made it to the final table. Do we see Space Marines in the talks of top tier army now? At least white scars with bikes.

Not sure; Eric I believe got a lot of mileage out of using the FW Red Hunters as an integral component of his army. I don't know how much they came into play throughout the tournament, but I know in local playtesting before he went they were pretty critical to the list's functionality.

I think the many different looks and buffs available to marines via the FW chapters and characters and special rules plug-and-play definitely ups their game. Doesn't mean grav guns and white scars bikers aren't a plenty scary army on their own, though, esp. in the hands of a bike vet like Eric.

This is something that intrigued me. I had considered similar allies in my White Scars list, but decided against them. In his list, it confuses me further. Two of the units (the Scouts and TFC) don't really benefit that much from the RH. The Chapter Master obviously likes Hatred/Counterattack, but for a turn neither of those seem that impressive. The Storm Talon gets... Monster Hunter? Tank Hunter? I can see the latter being useful against enemy fliers for a turn. Giving Skyfire/Monster Hunter to a Biker squad for a turn is obviously useful. I haven't played with the rules yet so maybe I'm just underestimating their impact, and obviously the list works.

Hey, so where could I find who actually won LVO? Just curious as to what some of the outcomes were, along with what armies were run etc. Thanks!

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
Hey, so where could I find who actually won LVO? Just curious as to what some of the outcomes were, along with what armies were run etc. Thanks!

Did you not read any of the previous posts in the thread?

I really wish I could have attended! Gadgetstar doesn't do great at 1750 though.

Would love to see the batreps.

MVBrandt wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
Eldar and the Jetseer and council and all that is very good list, yes..
But I'm sure the player himself, Alex who won might of also had a little something to do with it, i mean possibly

All the final four and really the top 8 were known regulars on the circuit from the past couple of years dating back well into 5th ed ... Alex is top tier, as were any of the others who could have taken top prize; he also did it with a "nerfed" council via the 2+/4+ rule, so there's that to boot.

In terms of FW, I do know there was Gareth's crazy thuddspam/sabre on a skyshield list in the final 8, as well as Eric who made top table using the FW Red Hunters allied to White Scars to get their benefits.

Kinda seems like you saw what would be expected - FW units added in to power up armies further where such was possible; Eldar don't have access to very many uber buffs from FW (esp. b/c one of their best in FA competes with Swooping Hawks, which are critical for objective-based tourney missions), so you wouldn't see much FW in Eldar armies; same is really true for CSD and to a lesser extent, Tau. Better way to look at it would be to glance at the best performing Imperial armies and see how many did so w/out support from FW (and the first two examples - Eric's SM and Gareth's IG from the top 8 - both used FW heavily in their lists).

I keep hearing really awesome things about how well LVO went ... looking forward to a bunch of feedback making me more jelly and more committed to making it next year. The megamats also looked pretty radical all laid out all over the place.

IDK, considering there were literally zero swooping hawks in all the eldar lists. As well as empty FA slots I am inclined to disagree. Especially when a hornet list performed so well according to blackmoor. Sounds like plenty of opportunity there for eldar if they wanted, they just don't need it currently. I think if FW is helping the struggling imperial lists perform on the same level then it's a good thing.

Not trying to be contrary or negative just looking at it from a different perspective I suppose.

 Red Corsair wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
Eldar and the Jetseer and council and all that is very good list, yes..
But I'm sure the player himself, Alex who won might of also had a little something to do with it, i mean possibly

All the final four and really the top 8 were known regulars on the circuit from the past couple of years dating back well into 5th ed ... Alex is top tier, as were any of the others who could have taken top prize; he also did it with a "nerfed" council via the 2+/4+ rule, so there's that to boot.

In terms of FW, I do know there was Gareth's crazy thuddspam/sabre on a skyshield list in the final 8, as well as Eric who made top table using the FW Red Hunters allied to White Scars to get their benefits.

Kinda seems like you saw what would be expected - FW units added in to power up armies further where such was possible; Eldar don't have access to very many uber buffs from FW (esp. b/c one of their best in FA competes with Swooping Hawks, which are critical for objective-based tourney missions), so you wouldn't see much FW in Eldar armies; same is really true for CSD and to a lesser extent, Tau. Better way to look at it would be to glance at the best performing Imperial armies and see how many did so w/out support from FW (and the first two examples - Eric's SM and Gareth's IG from the top 8 - both used FW heavily in their lists).

I keep hearing really awesome things about how well LVO went ... looking forward to a bunch of feedback making me more jelly and more committed to making it next year. The megamats also looked pretty radical all laid out all over the place.

IDK, considering there were literally zero swooping hawks in all the eldar lists. As well as empty FA slots I am inclined to disagree. Especially when a hornet list performed so well according to blackmoor. Sounds like plenty of opportunity there for eldar if they wanted, they just don't need it currently. I think if FW is helping the struggling imperial lists perform on the same level then it's a good thing.

Not trying to be contrary or negative just looking at it from a different perspective I suppose.

I think you're just sharing how you see it - no offense or negativity taken. Swooping Hawks are nonetheless a fairly common and critical component to a solid GT Eldar build (inclusive of council lists). Mileage always varies, especially among top tier players like Alex.

In re: FW, that is certainly a good point; I wasn't really sharing an opinion on whether it was good or bad. I just think you tend to see more FW being used to power up armies that need it, and not just b/c of the cool factor or to let people play with their toys. I don't say that's bad, either. Just would help explain in a contemporary meta full of *relatively* FW-not-required power codices like CSD, Eldar and Tau, it shouldn't be surprising that you don't see much of it outside the Imperial armies, when the primary use seems to be power and not cool factor.

I want to give a HUGE shoutout to Reece, Frankie, and all the staff from frontline gaming for putting on a fantastic, very smooth tournament. Everything ran on schedule, and the schedule was none too onerous. Terrain was fantastic for an event of it's size, especially scaling up from BAO. If you havent seen the Frontline Gaming/Tablewar mats, you must check them out. They were a dream to play on and are absolutely gorgeous. Also, Torrent of Fire had excellent coverage on the event, both in communicating quick pairings to everyone in hall and allowing all my east coast buddies to follow along on the round by round action.

Finally, many thanks to all of my opponents. I had an absolute blast with Alex Fennell, who deservingly won the event and took me out in the final round. Alex, I've got my Dark Angel's codex right here looking at ways to put fearless on my big bike unit. It was also a blast to play against Dan Hesselberg of Sweden's ETC team, and friends Adam Tricola and Jim Yeh.

As for the list and FW, while I had the Red Hunters chapter tactic, I only actually used it in 4 of my games. It was really in the list to cover my weakness against flyers, and I was able to down a heldrake with my skyfiring multi-melta in the 6th round. While I would probably run it again given the opportunity, that was the only game where the chapter tactic had any decent effect on the game. As a whole, there was strikingly little forgeworld at the event. In my eight games, I played against exactly one unit from FW, and that was Sevrin Loth who pretty much acts as a librarian who can choose his powers. It was nifty, but nothing gamebreaking.

Eric H