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 Admiral Valerian wrote:
I hate to start a versus thread, but having finished the Forerunner Saga, I can't help but wonder whether or not even the Eldar at the height of their power could defeat the Forerunners at the height of their power as well.

The two seem evenly matched, Hard Light against Wraithbone, Slipspace mastery against the Webway, AI support against psionics and so on.

We don't know enough about the pre-fall or War in Heaven era Eldar to make a call. That being said, the Ecumene at it's height could do some crazy crap. Not quite culture level, but they're up there.

Wraith-constructs win. The halo array wont hurt them because they arn't sentient. Hard light is akin a las-gun, how much dmg does that do to a wraithguard? How much dmg would a wraithcannon do to a promithian? Yeah...its not looking good for the forerunners. Hand to hand *which it would never get to...* eldar win hands down. A scorpion would slice through all the weird doggy things as they are like termaguants and banshees would easily slice down a knight. Reapers smash aside knights and craftworlds *back then craftworlds could be used as attackships because they had a lot!* beats the heck outa that didact thing.

My forerunner knowlige is limited to the halo games, but they didnt seem all powerful. I doubt they would activate the halo array because they are wiping out all life, and suicide a win doesnt make. Especially when the eldar could go hide in the webway and escape the halo firing. No the halo would shatter the webway, why would you think such? While wraithbone is sentient, its because it is infused with psykic power, not because it lives. So the halo arrays have no effect on them. Eldar psyonics was at its peak back then, when a dedicated psyker could extinguish stars, what do the forerunners have to counter that? Suicide? Which the eldar would easily predict and hide away for.

Its no contest really, eldar psions and mastery of the webway makes them the undenniable winner.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Wraith-constructs win. The halo array wont hurt them because they arn't sentient. Hard light is akin a las-gun, how much dmg does that do to a wraithguard? How much dmg would a wraithcannon do to a promithian? Yeah...its not looking good for the forerunners. Hand to hand *which it would never get to...* eldar win hands down. A scorpion would slice through all the weird doggy things as they are like termaguants and banshees would easily slice down a knight. Reapers smash aside knights and craftworlds *back then craftworlds could be used as attackships because they had a lot!* beats the heck outa that didact thing.

My forerunner knowlige is limited to the halo games, but they didnt seem all powerful. I doubt they would activate the halo array because they are wiping out all life, and suicide a win doesnt make. Especially when the eldar could go hide in the webway and escape the halo firing. No the halo would shatter the webway, why would you think such? While wraithbone is sentient, its because it is infused with psykic power, not because it lives. So the halo arrays have no effect on them. Eldar psyonics was at its peak back then, when a dedicated psyker could extinguish stars, what do the forerunners have to counter that? Suicide? Which the eldar would easily predict and hide away for.

Its no contest really, eldar psions and mastery of the webway makes them the undenniable winner.

Craftworld's where never used as war-ships, they where originally used as trading ships. Wraith-Lords nor Wraith-Guard saw use until after the fall.

Erm, Promethean's were not the main Forerunner troopers, they where only used by the Ur-Didact. Normal Forerunner troops wore "combat skin".

Also, the Forerunners still have a good chance. The Forerunners could be compared to the Necrons in terms of technology.

 blood reaper wrote:

Admiral Valerian wrote:The Halo would shatter the Webway like glass, due to the semi-sapient nature of the Webway itself. The Webway gates would serve as terminals through which the Halo effect would surge into the Webway, destroying the Webway as it passes through..

Halo works by releasing a wave of radiation that targets and destroys the bodies nervous system. The Webway does not possess said nervous system.

The same went for the Precursor's unbending filaments. And look at what happened to them.

I'd say Eldar. They've got Eldrad.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

Admiral Valerian wrote:The Halo would shatter the Webway like glass, due to the semi-sapient nature of the Webway itself. The Webway gates would serve as terminals through which the Halo effect would surge into the Webway, destroying the Webway as it passes through..

Halo works by releasing a wave of radiation that targets and destroys the bodies nervous system. The Webway does not possess said nervous system.

The same went for the Precursor's unbending filaments. And look at what happened to them.

It is never explained how they work. I doubt they work in the same way the Webway works.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Wraith-constructs win. The halo array wont hurt them because they arn't sentient. Hard light is akin a las-gun, how much dmg does that do to a wraithguard? How much dmg would a wraithcannon do to a promithian? Yeah...its not looking good for the forerunners. Hand to hand *which it would never get to...* eldar win hands down. A scorpion would slice through all the weird doggy things as they are like termaguants and banshees would easily slice down a knight. Reapers smash aside knights and craftworlds *back then craftworlds could be used as attackships because they had a lot!* beats the heck outa that didact thing.

The Boltshot (an Forerunner pistol) is capable of disintegrating targets at close range, as does the Incineration Cannon. The Forerunner also made use of plasma weapons (where do you think the Covenant got their plasma weapons) and particle beams, not to mention those Energy Blades which are also of Forerunner design. They also had individual energy shields and teleporters (if Knights had them, why would regular Prometheans not have them), and they could also project telekinetic fields by technological means. They even had Titan-equivalents, the so-called War Sphinxes, described as capable of leveling cities and decimating continents.

My forerunner knowlige is limited to the halo games, but they didnt seem all powerful. I doubt they would activate the halo array because they are wiping out all life, and suicide a win doesnt make. Especially when the eldar could go hide in the webway and escape the halo firing. No the halo would shatter the webway, why would you think such? While wraithbone is sentient, its because it is infused with psykic power, not because it lives. So the halo arrays have no effect on them. Eldar psyonics was at its peak back then, when a dedicated psyker could extinguish stars, what do the forerunners have to counter that? Suicide? Which the eldar would easily predict and hide away for.

Its no contest really, eldar psions and mastery of the webway makes them the undenniable winner.

I suggest you read the novels and look up their history. The Forerunners were virtually immortal, had the ability to control a star's energy output to directly harness them for energy production, could also induce supernovae, and even move them via slipspace. They could communicate instantly across the galaxy by means of quantum entanglement, not to mention their own Webway-equivalent through their slipspace portals. And I doubt even if they could even hide in the Webway, as the novels made it clear the Forerunners had an intimate understanding of multiple dimensions; they even detected paradoxical causality echoes of the Halo effect even before the Halos were fired.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

Admiral Valerian wrote:The Halo would shatter the Webway like glass, due to the semi-sapient nature of the Webway itself. The Webway gates would serve as terminals through which the Halo effect would surge into the Webway, destroying the Webway as it passes through..

Halo works by releasing a wave of radiation that targets and destroys the bodies nervous system. The Webway does not possess said nervous system.

The same went for the Precursor's unbending filaments. And look at what happened to them.

It is never explained how they work. I doubt they work in the same way the Webway works.

http://www.halopedia.org/Neural_physics

The initial description sounds a lot like the Warp, especially the part where it could not be understood by biological beings. Ironically, the Halo effect would destroy anything that made use of its principles.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Wraith-constructs win. The halo array wont hurt them because they arn't sentient. Hard light is akin a las-gun, how much dmg does that do to a wraithguard? How much dmg would a wraithcannon do to a promithian? Yeah...its not looking good for the forerunners. Hand to hand *which it would never get to...* eldar win hands down. A scorpion would slice through all the weird doggy things as they are like termaguants and banshees would easily slice down a knight. Reapers smash aside knights and craftworlds *back then craftworlds could be used as attackships because they had a lot!* beats the heck outa that didact thing.

The Boltshot (an Forerunner pistol) is capable of disintegrating targets at close range, as does the Incineration Cannon. The Forerunner also made use of plasma weapons (where do you think the Covenant got their plasma weapons) and particle beams, not to mention those Energy Blades which are also of Forerunner design. They also had individual energy shields and teleporters (if Knights had them, why would regular Prometheans not have them), and they could also project telekinetic fields by technological means. They even had Titan-equivalents, the so-called War Sphinxes, described as capable of leveling cities and decimating continents.

My forerunner knowlige is limited to the halo games, but they didnt seem all powerful. I doubt they would activate the halo array because they are wiping out all life, and suicide a win doesnt make. Especially when the eldar could go hide in the webway and escape the halo firing. No the halo would shatter the webway, why would you think such? While wraithbone is sentient, its because it is infused with psykic power, not because it lives. So the halo arrays have no effect on them. Eldar psyonics was at its peak back then, when a dedicated psyker could extinguish stars, what do the forerunners have to counter that? Suicide? Which the eldar would easily predict and hide away for.

Its no contest really, eldar psions and mastery of the webway makes them the undenniable winner.

I suggest you read the novels and look up their history. The Forerunners were virtually immortal, had the ability to control a star's energy output to directly harness them for energy production, could also induce supernovae, and even move them via slipspace. They could communicate instantly across the galaxy by means of quantum entanglement, not to mention their own Webway-equivalent through their slipspace portals. And I doubt even if they could even hide in the Webway, as the novels made it clear the Forerunners had an intimate understanding of multiple dimensions; they even detected paradoxical causality echoes of the Halo effect even before the Halos were fired.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

Admiral Valerian wrote:The Halo would shatter the Webway like glass, due to the semi-sapient nature of the Webway itself. The Webway gates would serve as terminals through which the Halo effect would surge into the Webway, destroying the Webway as it passes through..

Halo works by releasing a wave of radiation that targets and destroys the bodies nervous system. The Webway does not possess said nervous system.

The same went for the Precursor's unbending filaments. And look at what happened to them.

It is never explained how they work. I doubt they work in the same way the Webway works.

http://www.halopedia.org/Neural_physics

The initial description sounds a lot like the Warp, especially the part where it could not be understood by biological beings. Ironically, the Halo effect would destroy anything that made use of its principles.

That works nothing like the warp.

The warp is a secondary realm which was spawned from the emotions of soulless beings.

Are any of these threads made by you ever not heavily biased towards the Halo franchise?

 n0t_u wrote:
Are any of these threads made by you ever not heavily biased towards the Halo franchise?

That's silly. You can easily be a fan of BOTH franchises.

I certainly am.

But this is a VS thread after all, haha.

My votes for the eldar. The whole scope and destructive scale of WH40k is very difficult for other universes to compete with. And I also know little to nothing about the forerunners (only ever cared about Reach and ODST for the halo series) and I know little of the eldar, but with what I do know is that in terms of firepower the eldar have impressed me far more than the forerunners ever have.

It would be a devastating war that would involve massive casualties that neither side could really recover from. No clear winner here because both sides have trump cards. Eldar have advanced wraith constructs and Forerunners have big guns to take them out. Eldar can build worlds in a different dimension and Forerunners can do the same (I think). They just use different forms of space magic.

The answer to this, in my opinion, is that no matter who wins we all lose. The Flood, if this war is in the Halo 'verse, may or may not infect the entire galaxy if the Forerunners still have enough numbers to sustain a major flood population. I don't know if eldar can be infected. It would depend on if they had a central nervous system that works in a linear fashion. (It's not that hard to be immune against the flood. Sgt. Johnson managed it through chance mutation)

Halo isn't much use against the Eldar since it's not designed to fight them. We don't even know how it functions... there are two contradicting statements. Cortana says: "Halo doesn't kill the flood, it kills their food!" it Halo: CE meaning that Halo isn't an effective weapon against the Flood. In Halo 2/3, it's implied that if the rings were to be fired it would sort of clean them up.

Here's something to think about, though. The Flood managed to take down an empire that could build worlds and travel through dimensions on a whim but it had trouble with a bunch of monkeys with glorified sling shots. The Flood, when it infects someone, collectively gains their knowledge. My theory is that the Flood is only as dangerous as the foe they are fighting. The Forerunners would wipe out the "Modern" flood and the UNSC/Covenant Alliance would be devastated by the flood of yore.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
...Forerunners can do the same (I think)...

They can.

Halo isn't much use against the Eldar since it's not designed to fight them. We don't even know how it functions... there are two contradicting statements. Cortana says: "Halo doesn't kill the flood, it kills their food!" it Halo: CE meaning that Halo isn't an effective weapon against the Flood. In Halo 2/3, it's implied that if the rings were to be fired it would sort of clean them up.

The last novel made it clear the Flood except those in sealed research facilities were killed by the Halo effect. All the surviving Forerunners had to do was reintroduce the indexed species and clean up the corpses of those caught in the Halo effect.

Here's something to think about, though. The Flood managed to take down an empire that could build worlds and travel through dimensions on a whim but it had trouble with a bunch of monkeys with glorified sling shots. The Flood, when it infects someone, collectively gains their knowledge. My theory is that the Flood is only as dangerous as the foe they are fighting. The Forerunners would wipe out the "Modern" flood and the UNSC/Covenant Alliance would be devastated by the flood of yore.

Incorrect; the Flood is the test for the inheritance of the Mantle. The Covenant and the Forerunners failed; the Humans passed. Twice; first when the prehistoric Human civilization sacrificed a third of their population to stop it, which the Flood saw as evidence of Humanity's worthiness of the Mantle, and again when the UNSC destroyed Installation 04B and the Ark to destroy the Flood.

Ironically, both the Covenant and the Forerunners are usurpers of the Mantle; the Precursors had always intended for Humans to inherit the Mantle.

What? Okay... I've only played the games and read the first few novels so you'll have to forgive me. My main point is that the flood's threat level is relative to what it's fighting. A flood fighting the Imperium of Man would be far more dangerous than a flood fighting the UNSC. So it wouldn't be accurate to say that the Forerunners are lesser for losing against them.

The Eldar, if they can be infected, would have the same problems.

Halo would still be an ineffective weapon against the Eldar regardless of how it functions. It would kill a ton of them but it would kill too many Forerunners to be worth it.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
What? Okay... I've only played the games and read the first few novels so you'll have to forgive me. My main point is that the flood's threat level is relative to what it's fighting. A flood fighting the Imperium of Man would be far more dangerous than a flood fighting the UNSC. So it wouldn't be accurate to say that the Forerunners are lesser for losing against them.

The Eldar, if they can be infected, would have the same problems.

Fair enough; though I suggest you read the Forerunner Saga of novels. They reveal a lot about the history between the Humans, the Forerunners, and the Flood.



We already know from Halo 4's Terminals that had the Forerunner-Human War not broken out/prehistoric Humanity had won, the Librarian was certain they (prehistoric Humanity) would have surpassed the Forerunners and dominated the galaxy.

And the Eldar have a nervous system, so yeah, the Flood would be capable of infecting them.

Halo would still be an ineffective weapon against the Eldar regardless of how it functions. It would kill a ton of them but it would kill too many Forerunners to be worth it.

Well, Halo is a weapon of last resort, to be used only in the event of complete defeat.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Halo would still be an ineffective weapon against the Eldar regardless of how it functions. It would kill a ton of them but it would kill too many Forerunners to be worth it.

Well, Halo is a weapon of last resort, to be used only in the event of complete defeat.

So it's like a galaxy-wide exterminatus, then? "If we can't win, then neither can you!"

 Selym wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Halo would still be an ineffective weapon against the Eldar regardless of how it functions. It would kill a ton of them but it would kill too many Forerunners to be worth it.

Well, Halo is a weapon of last resort, to be used only in the event of complete defeat.

So it's like a galaxy-wide exterminatus, then? "If we can't win, then neither can you!"

If you looked at it from the view of the Imperium, or any faction of 40k, yes.

 Selym wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Halo would still be an ineffective weapon against the Eldar regardless of how it functions. It would kill a ton of them but it would kill too many Forerunners to be worth it.

Well, Halo is a weapon of last resort, to be used only in the event of complete defeat.

So it's like a galaxy-wide exterminatus, then? "If we can't win, then neither can you!"

Pretty much. That's what the Forerunners did at the end of the Forerunner-Flood War, and what their rivals, the prehistoric Human civilization, did at the end of the Forerunner-Human war did as well. Though in the case of the latter, it was more of a big middle finger to the Forerunners, as all the prehistoric Humans did when their capital world of Charum Hakkor fell was to erase all their data on the Flood (which they had apparently defeated on their own, something the Forerunners failed to do).

The reason the Eldar would win is they have their god of war Khaine on their side. The Forerunners have nothing like that

4RUNNAS WULD WIN COS HALO ARE BETTER THAN 40K.

Was that the response you were hoping for?

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
4RUNNAS WULD WIN COS HALO ARE BETTER THAN 40K.

Was that the response you were hoping for?

ELDAR WULD WIN CUZ THEY HAZ THE PEW PEW LASERS AND THE AVATAS OF KAINE AND THEY ARE THE BEST! 40K BETTER THAN YOURE SCIFI UNIVERSE!

Is that the response you were hoping for?


See? I can play this game too.

As a side note, just because it's from 40k doesn't mean it'll rolf stomp something from another universe. There are factions that would laugh at the necrons.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
4RUNNAS WULD WIN COS HALO ARE BETTER THAN 40K.

Was that the response you were hoping for?

ELDAR WULD WIN CUZ THEY HAZ THE PEW PEW LASERS AND THE AVATAS OF KAINE AND THEY ARE THE BEST! 40K BETTER THAN YOURE SCIFI UNIVERSE!

NUH UH MASTA CHEF WULD TEAM WIF THE SPASE MAHRIENS AND THEY WOULD ALL BE LIEK BAM BAM BAM WITH THERE BOLTAS AND THE 4RUNNAS AN ELDARS WOULD BE LIEK OH NOES I IS HIT AND DIE CUZ THE MASTA CHEF IS SECRETLY AN INQUITKSITUR AND PRIMARK AN THE EMPEROAH LIEKS HIM AND SENT HIM TO HALOWORLD TO FIGHT THE CUVANANT BAD GUYS

This is a fun game.

Well the Forerunner weaponry would certainly scare the living daylight out of them. Especially the Scattershot, Binary Rifle and the Boltshot. Since they would vaporize Eldar whole with everything on them. But I guess it'd be an even match, leaning a bit to the Forerunner side.

 n0t_u wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
4RUNNAS WULD WIN COS HALO ARE BETTER THAN 40K.

Was that the response you were hoping for?

ELDAR WULD WIN CUZ THEY HAZ THE PEW PEW LASERS AND THE AVATAS OF KAINE AND THEY ARE THE BEST! 40K BETTER THAN YOURE SCIFI UNIVERSE!

NUH UH MASTA CHEF WULD TEAM WIF THE SPASE MAHRIENS AND THEY WOULD ALL BE LIEK BAM BAM BAM WITH THERE BOLTAS AND THE 4RUNNAS AN ELDARS WOULD BE LIEK OH NOES I IS HIT AND DIE CUZ THE MASTA CHEF IS SECRETLY AN INQUITKSITUR AND PRIMARK AN THE EMPEROAH LIEKS HIM AND SENT HIM TO HALOWORLD TO FIGHT THE CUVANANT BAD GUYS

This is a fun game.

To quote Master Chief himself;

"i are guy who gon t33ch you less0n!"

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Well the Forerunner weaponry would certainly scare the living daylight out of them. Especially the Scattershot, Binary Rifle and the Boltshot. Since they would vaporize Eldar whole with everything on them. But I guess it'd be an even match, leaning a bit to the Forerunner side.

This is the most reasonable post thus far.

TheCustomLime wrote:

ELDAR WULD WIN CUZ THEY HAZ THE PEW PEW LASERS AND THE AVATAS OF KAINE AND THEY ARE THE BEST! 40K BETTER THAN YOURE SCIFI UNIVERSE!

Is that the response you were hoping for?


See? I can play this game too.

As a side note, just because it's from 40k doesn't mean it'll rolf stomp something from another universe. There are factions that would laugh at the necrons.

n0t_u wrote:
NUH UH MASTA CHEF WULD TEAM WIF THE SPASE MAHRIENS AND THEY WOULD ALL BE LIEK BAM BAM BAM WITH THERE BOLTAS AND THE 4RUNNAS AN ELDARS WOULD BE LIEK OH NOES I IS HIT AND DIE CUZ THE MASTA CHEF IS SECRETLY AN INQUITKSITUR AND PRIMARK AN THE EMPEROAH LIEKS HIM AND SENT HIM TO HALOWORLD TO FIGHT THE CUVANANT BAD GUYS

This is a fun game.

I love you guys.

Admiral Valerian wrote:

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Well the Forerunner weaponry would certainly scare the living daylight out of them. Especially the Scattershot, Binary Rifle and the Boltshot. Since they would vaporize Eldar whole with everything on them. But I guess it'd be an even match, leaning a bit to the Forerunner side.

This is the most reasonable post thus far.

You seem to be confusing "reasonable" and "agrees with me"... There have been many posts that are far more well thought out and reasonable.

 Corpsesarefun wrote:

TheCustomLime wrote:

ELDAR WULD WIN CUZ THEY HAZ THE PEW PEW LASERS AND THE AVATAS OF KAINE AND THEY ARE THE BEST! 40K BETTER THAN YOURE SCIFI UNIVERSE!

Is that the response you were hoping for?


See? I can play this game too.

As a side note, just because it's from 40k doesn't mean it'll rolf stomp something from another universe. There are factions that would laugh at the necrons.

n0t_u wrote:
NUH UH MASTA CHEF WULD TEAM WIF THE SPASE MAHRIENS AND THEY WOULD ALL BE LIEK BAM BAM BAM WITH THERE BOLTAS AND THE 4RUNNAS AN ELDARS WOULD BE LIEK OH NOES I IS HIT AND DIE CUZ THE MASTA CHEF IS SECRETLY AN INQUITKSITUR AND PRIMARK AN THE EMPEROAH LIEKS HIM AND SENT HIM TO HALOWORLD TO FIGHT THE CUVANANT BAD GUYS

This is a fun game.

I love you guys.

I love you too!

As per the main discussion, I don't think Forerunner tech would scare Eldar. The Imperium has some impressive stuff and the Eldar seems fine and dandy with it. Remember, Eldar are snooty and arrogant. They'd probably snort at the sight of Halo thinking it to be primitive, stupid, pointless and ugly.

You know, the Forerunners don't have the same scruples with xeno tech as the IoM is and they seem to be just as advanced as pre-fall Eldar. They could have the ability and willingness to copy Eldar tech... just a thought.

Or they could just use the composers on the Eldar.

 Soladrin wrote:
Or they could just use the composers on the Eldar.

Oh I like that

Hey, at least their souls won't be eaten by Slaanesh that way.... I think that's a little better.. right?