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LoneLictor wrote: So Space Wolves ride Thunderwolves that used to be Space Wolves? Does anyone else get some uncomfortable overtones from that?
Irregardless, no Space Wolf fluff will ever live up to the tale of Canis Wolfborn.
Canis means dog, so his name is Dog Wolfborn. Dog Wolfborn is a Wolf Guard to Wolf Lord Harald Deathwolf of the Space Wolves, and he rides a Thunderwolf. The word 'wolf' is used so many times in his background that it stops sounding like a real word.
My fair sir, you've forgotten the rest! He wears a Wolftooth Necklace, with a Wolf Tail Talisman, Two Wolf Claws, He bears the Saga of the Wolfkin, he's a Lord of the Wolfkin, he's also counted as a Wolf king, he can be accompanied by Fenrisan Wolves..
LoneLictor wrote:So Space Wolves ride Thunderwolves that used to be Space Wolves? Does anyone else get some uncomfortable overtones from that?
Irregardless, no Space Wolf fluff will ever live up to the tale of Canis Wolfborn.
Canis means dog, so his name is Dog Wolfborn. Dog Wolfborn is a Wolf Guard to Wolf Lord Harald Deathwolf of the Space Wolves, and he rides a Thunderwolf. The word 'wolf' is used so many times in his background that it stops sounding like a real word.
My fair sir, you've forgotten the rest! He wears a Wolftooth Necklace, with a Wolf Tail Talisman, Two Wolf Claws, He bears the Saga of the Wolfkin, he's a Lord of the Wolfkin, he's also counted as a Wolf king, he can be accompanied by Fenrisan Wolves..
Phil Kelly, half asleep, vomited the word 'wolf' all over the page and decided to call it a day.
Regarding Space Marine fluff, a thing of lot of it is intentionally disconcerting. They're taken away from their families as children, against their will. They're sterilized by the process that makes them Space Marines, heavily brainwashed, and expected to sacrifice their lives for a species they're no longer part of, and an Emperor they've never met. Those that rebel, or even just want any sort of reward whatsoever are killed. People try to paint renegades as the villains, but in my opinion they're essentially escaped slaves.
But the thing with Space Wolves riding Thunderwolves that used to be Space Wolves, I think that's just unintentionally unsettling.
LL is for once wrong, they ride xeno animal-life. That's science-fact not fiction in the animal life.
LL what happened to you my boy? My saint, you were supposed to be the foolproof anything or me. *Throws an apple at your thigh with deadly strength and accuracy!*
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote:LL is for once wrong, they ride xeno animal-life. That's science-fact not fiction in the animal life.
LL what happened to you my boy? My saint, you were supposed to be the foolproof anything or me. *Throws an apple at your thigh with deadly strength and accuracy!*
I'm going to backtrack heavily so that I still look foolproof.
I never outright said that Thunderwolves were Space Wolves, I just speculated on if Thunderwolves are Spacewolves, and how creepy it would be. I ain't taking no sides in this argument. Canon is so jumbled up in 40k that its possible to argue that the Squats were the Primarchs of the Blood Ravens, in a secret plan conducted by Omegon (OR WAS IT ALPHARIUS?).
This is made worse by the fact that SW armies always consist of multiple rune priests (sometimes 3-4) for an army that allegedly hates and fears psykers. Oh, and three Longfang squads is pretty standard too, for an army that prefers to make things up close and personal. But that's more about the game play.
To me this is what the problem has become. To me a Fluffy Space Wolf Army should be all about variety. I don’t run Rune Priest/Long Fang SPAM, the closest thing to SPAM I run is my Grey Hunter, 6 Packs, 2x with Plasma Gun, 2x with Melta Guns and 2x with Flamers.
My two, count them TWO Long Fang Packs came into existence because after rebuilding my Space Marine Army out of my old Long Fangs. The first is armed with one Heavy Bolter [From a Scout Marine], Two Missile Launchers and Two Las Cannons. The second one is 5 Missile Launchers [Two came from Scout Marines] because that’s what I could find at the time.
I have Three Rune Priest, the 1st is my count as Njal made from the Blood Angles Librarian from the latest Space Hulk game, and currently as soon as I get a replacement he is becoming a Dark Angles Librarian. The second one is one I bought at the LFGS, and I use him for every MEQ I run just because hi looks so cool and the third is was made out of parts from my Space Wolf Battle Force boxes.
I normally only play One Rune Priest at a time; Now I admit that I field him with my 1st Long Fang Pack, with Divination.
This apparently this combo makes me a “Beardy Cheese Monger” is some circles. It is hard for me to call anyone who has started a Space Wolf Army with 3x Missile Launcher Long Fangs and Everyone one of their Rune Priest has JotWW since the new Codex a real Space Wolf Player.
Of coarse I feel that way about some of the Grey Knight Players.
If this comes to be true - I'm going traitor...4real...I'm gonna use my warhammer (read: working hammer); bash my artwork; and go to BL headquarters to talk with the bald brotherhood.....with my hammer ofc ....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 03:27:43
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
Haha if they were Thousand Sons I would maybe agree just because LL is awesome, and purplefood should take note of LL, LL is awesome, I could dine on the crap of LL, because LL is awesome and polite.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just bash in their heads and perform lobotomies Marko.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 03:06:52
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote: Haha if they were Thousand Sons I would maybe agree just because LL is awesome, and purplefood should take note of LL, LL is awesome, I could dine on the crap of LL, because LL is awesome and polite.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just bash in their heads and perform lobotomies Marko.
First I must start with my own....because this horror is too much for me.....
Bye, bye my puppies...Raven Guard here I come (*they are always in the shadow*)
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
LoneLictor wrote:So Space Wolves ride Thunderwolves that used to be Space Wolves? Does anyone else get some uncomfortable overtones from that?
Irregardless, no Space Wolf fluff will ever live up to the tale of Canis Wolfborn.
Canis means dog, so his name is Dog Wolfborn. Dog Wolfborn is a Wolf Guard to Wolf Lord Harald Deathwolf of the Space Wolves, and he rides a Thunderwolf. The word 'wolf' is used so many times in his background that it stops sounding like a real word.
My fair sir, you've forgotten the rest! He wears a Wolftooth Necklace, with a Wolf Tail Talisman, Two Wolf Claws, He bears the Saga of the Wolfkin, he's a Lord of the Wolfkin, he's also counted as a Wolf king, he can be accompanied by Fenrisan Wolves..
Phil Kelly, half asleep, vomited the word 'wolf' all over the page and decided to call it a day.
Regarding Space Marine fluff, a thing of lot of it is intentionally disconcerting. They're taken away from their families as children, against their will. They're sterilized by the process that makes them Space Marines, heavily brainwashed, and expected to sacrifice their lives for a species they're no longer part of, and an Emperor they've never met. Those that rebel, or even just want any sort of reward whatsoever are killed. People try to paint renegades as the villains, but in my opinion they're essentially escaped slaves.
But the thing with Space Wolves riding Thunderwolves that used to be Space Wolves, I think that's just unintentionally unsettling.
Actually it varies from chapter to chapter on the recruitment process, some will take children, some families offer up the children in hope to become it. Some don't recruit children but will take what they feel is stronger warriors instead.
Also, SM aren't sterilized.
They need a high quantity of testosterone, and you know how the testosterone is produced.
Hell, probably the only thing still human in a SPESS MEHREEN is his "little battle brother".
If you know what I mean.
The wolves are back! *feral howl* "Si vis pacem para bellum"
No but their sperm might be corrosive. Plus Lukas the Trickster rule, but then again lots of the women at Fenris are....To hell with it, time to call the cops.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 11:10:19
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote: No but their sperm might be corrosive. Plus Lukas the Trickster rule, but then again lots of the women at Fenris are....To hell with it, time to call the cops.
Probably, yeah.
Well, Lukas is a Trickster, he coul easily trick himself in a woman bed.
The wolves are back! *feral howl* "Si vis pacem para bellum"
I think Lukas the Trickster, like most of the fluff in their 5th Ed Codex, is terrible and characteristic of the childish and OTT fluff so prevalent in Codices.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
Every codex is over the top Just Dave. I take the stance they just are how the guys in the codexes see themselves. That makes everything more easy to digest.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Just Dave wrote: I think Lukas the Trickster, like most of the fluff in their 5th Ed Codex, is terrible and characteristic of the childish and OTT fluff so prevalent in Codices.
Well, I love him as a character. Is epic. Childish? Nah, it reflects simply the rebellious nature of the Wolves, particulary the BC. Hell, Lukas is jackassery incarnate.
The wolves are back! *feral howl* "Si vis pacem para bellum"
Just Dave wrote: I think Lukas the Trickster, like most of the fluff in their 5th Ed Codex, is terrible and characteristic of the childish and OTT fluff so prevalent in Codices.
Well, I love him as a character. Is epic. Childish? Nah, it reflects simply the rebellious nature of the Wolves, particulary the BC. Hell, Lukas is jackassery incarnate.
Lukas the Trickster is awesome and supposed to be a very rebellious character. Plus I loved the word jackassery incarnate.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
I don't like to post, but the level of stupid in this thread is reaching cataclysmic proportions (as most space wolf-related threads seem to), so I couldn't resist.
The Wulfen are a pretty well-established part of Space Wolf lore. We know these guys have had canine DNA incorporated into their gene-seed when their Emperor created them, we know they take an additional elixir known as the Canis Helix that creates further mutations, we know in times of great stress or anger they can transform into giant werewolf creatures, and we know they keep failed aspirants who weren't able to adjust and mutated out of control in the basement of the Fang, unleashing them in battle when needed (which they did both at Prospero and the Battle for the Fang).
So it is an undeniable and irrevocable fact that Space Wolves do indeed turn into wolves.
Now whether every single wolf-like creature on the planet is a former Space Wolf is debatable. It seems unlikely, and the only source for that is Dan Abnett. I'm not a big fan of his Space Marine work, so I don't lend too much credence to that. Of course, if we dismiss Abnett's "there are no wolves on Fenris", we have to dismiss the whole "Executioners of the Emperor" bit.
----
Speaking of that title, it pays to remember that 40K lore is a succession of retcons and re-writes. You can't say "oh, Space Wolves are better than regular Space Marines because they were meant to be Executioners", because they have been better than regular Space Marines since 2nd edition when they were given to Andy Chambers. Andy Chambers, for those who don't know, is the beardiest git in the universe (to use GW's own terminology). This guy at the time ran around with a Wolverine haircut, and decided to make his chapter of choice a bunch of Wolverines. People complain about Ward, but Ward really has got nothing on Andy. This is basically what Andy did in second edition:
"Space Marines are peerless warrior-monks, indoctrinated to unquestioningly serve the Imperium. Well, my Space Marines are even smarter and stronger (WS6, bitch!), have more terminator suits than anyone else (20-man squads with Cyclones and assault cannons!), have a stronger fleet than an entire Segmentum, have better senses, are totally hipster rebels that tell the Lords of Terra and the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy to feth off on a regular basis, and if all else fails, they can go into berserker rages that transforms them into giant werewolves that will snikt snikt mess you up wolverine-style. Oh, and they are immune to Chaos, too."
Then Abnett, a self-professed Space Wolf fan-boy, comes along and makes them the Emperor's Executioners, causing all sorts of debates and consternation and wet-leopard purring among the nerdbase. More recent material has shed more light on this title. From Outcast Dead, we know the Emperor was more or less blindly experimenting when he made the Space Marines (after all, they were an afterthought only realized because he lost his Primarchs, and Corax was able to improve on the formula with just a bit more work), tweaking this and that and throwing random bits in there. If we say he designed Russ to be his executioner, then we must also conclude that he designed Kurze to be a bipolar psycho, Horus to be a megalomaniac, and Fulgrim to be a polly pretty pants ponce.
From Betrayer, we know that this title was unofficial and never declared by any Imperial authority, but rather something Russ took on himself. The only piece of evidence people like to present is the hints Abnett dropped that the Wolves may have clashed with other Space Marines in the past, but Betrayer also lets us know that those Space Marines were World Eaters, rather than one of the two fallen Legions.
In conclusion, TLDR version:
A. Space Wolves DO turn into wolves (or at least wolf-like creatures), but it is highly unlikely that every wolf on Fenris is a former Space Wolf.
B. The Space Wolves are only "the Emperor's executioners" because they say they are, rather than in any official fashion.
C. Dan Abnett is terrible at writing Space Marines, and his non-SM stuff is basically light sci-fi that exists in a brighter version of the 40K universe.
D. Ward is just following the successful formula of cartoony over-the-top Mary Sue gak laid down by Andy Chambers and Tuomas Pirinen.
E. Space Wolves are hated because all of their fluff is adolescent fanwank that doesn't fit in the grander narrative of the 40K universe, unless we're looking at the comic relief stupid part of it.
As far as the OP's question, this post wins the thread:
In general they usually seem to be written like some overactive 11 year olds internet fanfic about Space Vikings. We've got everything from firing artillery by smell, to characters with the word "Wolf" or some derivative thereof in their character profile and wargear like 14 times, guys that get to crash Thunderhawks for gaks and giggles and nobody seems to care. They come off as bad comic relief. Then we've got the "berzerker" aspect of SW's being unholy savages in melee combat who love the thrill of battle and are just so much fighter than other Space Marines. Then yet on another hand we've got the "sinister dark executioners" tripe that the other half of the SW fluff is, where no, they're not actually the ridiculous parody faction or mindless berzerkers, they just use it as an excuse to mask their brilliant tactics and master spy networks and incredible generalship. On top of that they've of course got an ironclad sense of honor and hearts of gold for the downtrodden little guy, but don't forget they're still dark nightmarish killers. Oh, and some of them are Werewolves too just for gaks and giggles.
They try to be anything and everything at once and they come off like someone's pet fanfic project where they have to be the "bestest at everythings!". It's like if you tried to mash Orks, Chaos Space Marines, the Inquisition and a dash of Tau into one faction, it just doesn't mesh. Their psykers aren't really "bad" psyekers, they use the native power of Fenris...
You've probably never heard of it /hipster.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/01 14:34:41
^ THIS! Though judging from the amount of crazy bouncing off this thread it will be promptly ignored with people sticking their fingers in their ears saying "LALALA! NOT EVIDENCE!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 15:00:51
B. The Space Wolves are only "the Emperor's executioners" because they say they are, rather than in any official fashion.
ADB supports this theory actually....He said because of their unique style of fightning (go for the throat) they are what they are.... Not because of astartes +1 traits....
C. Dan Abnett is terrible at writing Space Marines, and his non-SM stuff is basically light sci-fi that exists in a brighter version of the 40K universe.
Add IYHO please - Abnett is the man, he can write anything....
E. Space Wolves are hated because all of their fluff is adolescent fanwank that doesn't fit in the grander narrative of the 40K universe, unless we're looking at the comic relief stupid part of it.
Nope....Biggest fanbase, I play them for about 20 years, even this thread is actually in favor of SW.....
O and comic "relief stupid part " is present in every faction, chapter, author......
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 16:58:24
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
^ THIS! Though judging from the amount of crazy bouncing off this thread it will be promptly ignored with people sticking their fingers in their ears saying "LALALA! NOT EVIDENCE!"
Let me bring out the old song.
"The points in the debate go round and round
Round and round
Round and round
The points in the debate go round and round
All the day long."
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
I'm not sure quotations from books vs. "lalala, shutup they are awesomz! SCIENCE!!11!!" counts as a debate. More like someone making the mistake of arguing with an idiot and being dragged down to their level.
B. The Space Wolves are only "the Emperor's executioners" because they say they are, rather than in any official fashion.
ADB supports this theory actually....He said because of their unique style of fightning (go for the throat) they are what they are.... Not because of astartes +1 traits....
ADB is the one who in his books dismissed this as any "official" designation, but rather something Russ took upon himself because he thinks he has the authority to place judgement on his brothers.
C. Dan Abnett is terrible at writing Space Marines, and his non-SM stuff is basically light sci-fi that exists in a brighter version of the 40K universe.
Add IYHO please - Abnett is the man, he can write anything....
I refer you to Brothers of the Snake, one of the worst SM fanwank pieces of fiction ever written, and how his Space Marines keep growing larger and larger in every book. He also completely bumbled up the fall of Horus (and McNeil helped).
His non-SM stuff is shinier, happier and more high-tech than any other author's. He basically just writes generic sci-fi novels with a few 40K names dropped here and there.
E. Space Wolves are hated because all of their fluff is adolescent fanwank that doesn't fit in the grander narrative of the 40K universe, unless we're looking at the comic relief stupid part of it.
Nope....Biggest fanbase, I play them for about 20 years, even this thread is actually in favor of SW.....
O and comic "relief stupid part " is present in every faction, chapter, author......
This thread being "in their favor" is only in your mind and that of Beaviz. Them being the biggest fanbase is also pure conjecture. And as Vaktathi put it in far more eloquent words than I could, Space Wolves have been an extreme example of that style since their 2nd ed inception.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/01 17:23:05
KnowItAll wrote: I'm not sure quotations from books vs. "lalala, shutup they are awesomz! SCIENCE!!11!!" counts as a debate. More like someone making the mistake of arguing with an idiot and being dragged down to their level.
B. The Space Wolves are only "the Emperor's executioners" because they say they are, rather than in any official fashion.
ADB supports this theory actually....He said because of their unique style of fightning (go for the throat) they are what they are.... Not because of astartes +1 traits....
ADB is the one who in his books dismissed this as any "official" designation, but rather something Russ took upon himself because he thinks he has the authority to place judgement on his brothers.
C. Dan Abnett is terrible at writing Space Marines, and his non-SM stuff is basically light sci-fi that exists in a brighter version of the 40K universe.
Add IYHO please - Abnett is the man, he can write anything....
I refer you to Brothers of the Snake, one of the worst SM fanwank pieces of fiction ever written, and how his Space Marines keep growing larger and larger in every book. He also completely bumbled up the fall of Horus (and McNeil helped).
His non-SM stuff is shinier, happier and more high-tech than any other author's. He basically just writes generic sci-fi novels with a few 40K names dropped here and there.
E. Space Wolves are hated because all of their fluff is adolescent fanwank that doesn't fit in the grander narrative of the 40K universe, unless we're looking at the comic relief stupid part of it.
Nope....Biggest fanbase, I play them for about 20 years, even this thread is actually in favor of SW.....
O and comic "relief stupid part " is present in every faction, chapter, author......
This thread being "in their favor" is only in your mind and that of Beaviz. Them being the biggest fanbase is also pure conjecture. And as Vaktathi put it in far more eloquent words than I could, Space Wolves have been an extreme example of that style since their 2nd ed inception.
Shinier than Ciaphas Cain?
Although those novels are chock full of gallows humor.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Just Dave wrote: I think Lukas the Trickster, like most of the fluff in their 5th Ed Codex, is terrible and characteristic of the childish and OTT fluff so prevalent in Codices.
KnowItAll wrote: I'm not sure quotations from books vs. "lalala, shutup they are awesomz! SCIENCE!!11!!" counts as a debate. More like someone making the mistake of arguing with an idiot and being dragged down to their level.
B. The Space Wolves are only "the Emperor's executioners" because they say they are, rather than in any official fashion.
ADB supports this theory actually....He said because of their unique style of fightning (go for the throat) they are what they are.... Not because of astartes +1 traits....
ADB is the one who in his books dismissed this as any "official" designation, but rather something Russ took upon himself because he thinks he has the authority to place judgement on his brothers.
C. Dan Abnett is terrible at writing Space Marines, and his non-SM stuff is basically light sci-fi that exists in a brighter version of the 40K universe.
Add IYHO please - Abnett is the man, he can write anything....
I refer you to Brothers of the Snake, one of the worst SM fanwank pieces of fiction ever written, and how his Space Marines keep growing larger and larger in every book. He also completely bumbled up the fall of Horus (and McNeil helped).
His non-SM stuff is shinier, happier and more high-tech than any other author's. He basically just writes generic sci-fi novels with a few 40K names dropped here and there.
E. Space Wolves are hated because all of their fluff is adolescent fanwank that doesn't fit in the grander narrative of the 40K universe, unless we're looking at the comic relief stupid part of it.
Nope....Biggest fanbase, I play them for about 20 years, even this thread is actually in favor of SW.....
O and comic "relief stupid part " is present in every faction, chapter, author......
This thread being "in their favor" is only in your mind and that of Beaviz. Them being the biggest fanbase is also pure conjecture. And as Vaktathi put it in far more eloquent words than I could, Space Wolves have been an extreme example of that style since their 2nd ed inception.
Nope ADB - said on B&C that the wolves have the biggest fanbase,following by the BA(close) ,and he said on facebook that he supports the theory about executioners just not astartes +1 theory.....
You say Russ's judgment - I say comradship, and only truth in your thread is that Abnett really started this mess with this :
Like I said, I do get you and I don't...To make judgment "what is; and what is not fit for 40k is pure bias....
Me and Beaviz? Check the thread again please....
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
....
The wolves are back! *feral howl* 
Though judging from the amount of crazy bouncing off this thread it will be promptly ignored with people sticking their fingers in their ears saying "LALALA! NOT EVIDENCE!"
