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 TheFatElf wrote:
See, I think most of GW's stuff is pretty good! There are a few releases now and again that I'm not so keen on, but really I suppose it's down to opinion?

It's absolutely down to opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs.

The closest anything of this ilk can come to being objectively 'good' or 'bad' is public reaction, and how the majority view a particular release.

I happen to believe that GW have released more 'bad' than good in the last year or so, with a hefty lump of meh, but respect that others may feel differently.

Just look at what other, smaller manufacturers are doing though, some are producing magnificent products on a fraction of the budget GW can throw at their development.

GW seem to become more and more stagnant, both creatively and as an organisation, while those around them seem to be continually upping their game.

GW models are going down the crapper because the design ethos seems to have moved to making plastic cartoon characters. Not that I'm saying every GW model before this looked realistically plausible, but compare the new daemon prince to the old metal one. One is a miniaturised, warped daemon from hell, and the other is a blocky, angular World of Warcraft character. Same goes for the new plaguebearers, sure they're technically miles ahead of their metal cousins, but why oh why are they all pulling such stupid faces? They all look like dreamworks characters, having a 'cheesy grin' contest or something. You can't take something like that seriously when you hold it next to the DV chosen or new plastic chaos raptors.

I really like a lot of GWs new releases, especially the new Tau (which I think look absolutely awesome!) and I think that, bar the Bow Ladies (I forget their names) and the weird paper aeroplane attached to the Eagle, I think the HE look pretty damn good a well

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Also, even some of the bad-looking stuff can be made to look excellent with a little bit of converting and a good paintjob.

This. There's next to no model that can't be "fixed" (so to speak) with a little conversion work. For me, that's the best part of the hobby!

 azreal13 wrote:

 TheFatElf wrote:
See, I think most of GW's stuff is pretty good! There are a few releases now and again that I'm not so keen on, but really I suppose it's down to opinion?

It's absolutely down to opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs.

Mm, yes, I wouldn't dispute this at all. I'm open to the idea that GW can and often do produce some bad models, the Necron Flayed Ones for example, and often replace some awesome looking models with their new "improved" versions (again, the Flayed Ones being the perfect example of this). I wasn't implying that others weren't entitled to their opinion, sorry if that's what came across

 azreal13 wrote:
Just look at what other, smaller manufacturers are doing though, some are producing magnificent products on a fraction of the budget GW can throw at their development.

GW seem to become more and more stagnant, both creatively and as an organisation, while those around them seem to be continually upping their game.

I also agree that smaller manufacturers produce things that can outclass GW. Some of the models I've seen from other companies are stunning, and I think sooner or later GW will have to start being more creative in their newer stuff. But for me, GW has a certain asthetic, and other companies have theirs, and I feel they achieve different things and appeal to different people.

It's not all bad, I mean compare...



To



But meanwhile the competition are putting out things like this...



Now, this comparison doesn't allow for price, but the Commander still comes in at a price comparable to most of GWs 'centrepiece' models, and I wouldn't have an issue spending £40 on that, but I have an issue with most of the big GW kits for the amount they charge.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Also, the old metal CSM daemon prince compared to the new plastic one. The metal model looked far superior.

This is a good example in the sense that new model has too exaggarated, cartoonlike proportions, I particularly dislike the large mouth with huge grin which the new model has. Also I don't like 'canine' legs the model has.

On a plus side, new one looks slightly better live than in pics, camera + exaggarated studio paintjob make the model look worse than it is. And of course there are more options and conversion possibilities with the new, so it's not all negative.

 azreal13 wrote:


But meanwhile the competition are putting out things like this...

 TheFatElf wrote:
...for me, GW has a certain asthetic, and other companies have theirs, and I feel they achieve different things and appeal to different people.

Those models being the perfect example. I mean, to me, the GW model looks like it belongs in the Warhammer Universe (I know that's because it does, but that's besides the point ) whereas the other model, though no less (or even more) striking from a modelling point of view, for me is much more at home in a more "realistic" (or at least as realistic as a universe that contains Griffons can be ) setting, more akin to Lord of the Rings I suppose.

I almost always like all the new 40k releases, even though it appears as if GW is attempting a more commercial mass-appealing look to their models. I almost always hate the new fantasy releases. The incredible lack of detail on every single large monster is pathetic. I thought dragons were supposed to have scales. The....what was it....storm of magic? That release pissed all over the look of whfb. The minotaurs, river trolls, terrorghast could be sooooo much more kick ass. It all just looks silly and looks more like pokemon or yu gi oh toys rather than the most impressive model kits of their kind. Every release since Skaven has been ridiculous imo and have brought the game from a campy heavy metal hell world to dirk the daring in dragon's lair. 40k is not without it's silly new offerings...the Khorne daemon engine thing/throne looks like a mcdonald's toy. Does it shoot spring loaded plastic pizza discs? It looks like it does. It also looks like a pokemon. I used to not mind the price in 2006 because I was paying for the best models that money could buy. They were solid metal for the most part and loaded with detail. It is sad. I grew up loving this company and they have sold their integrity. Just like everyone else.

 TheFatElf wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


But meanwhile the competition are putting out things like this...

 TheFatElf wrote:
...for me, GW has a certain asthetic, and other companies have theirs, and I feel they achieve different things and appeal to different people.

Those models being the perfect example. I mean, to me, the GW model looks like it belongs in the Warhammer Universe (I know that's because it does, but that's besides the point ) whereas the other model, though no less (or even more) striking from a modelling point of view, for me is much more at home in a more "realistic" (or at least as realistic as a universe that contains Griffons can be ) setting, more akin to Lord of the Rings I suppose.

To be honest... I would be happy to use any of those griffons. I might want to trim the humongous head wings from the rider of the old metal model, but all three look quite good to me. But then, I like griffons - even dwarfs mounted on small owlish looking ones:




Griffons have been one of the luckier critters in the game, and not only from GW.




*EDIT* Added images from Reaper, one at a time....

The Auld Grump

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
40k is not without it's silly new offerings...the Khorne daemon engine thing/throne looks like a mcdonald's toy. Does it shoot spring loaded plastic pizza discs? It looks like it does. It also looks like a pokemon.

Quite true, but the new High Elves are beautiful, and the Dark Eldar from a few years ago likewise. Some hit, some miss.

stonegiant wrote:

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
40k is not without it's silly new offerings...the Khorne daemon engine thing/throne looks like a mcdonald's toy. Does it shoot spring loaded plastic pizza discs? It looks like it does. It also looks like a pokemon.

Quite true, but the new High Elves are beautiful

Except for the pheonixes.

Aesthetic is an entirely personal thing - what some like, others don't. I don't have a problem with any of the Vampire Counts models, but I know plenty who don't like a lot of the new stuff.

stonegiant wrote:

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
40k is not without it's silly new offerings...the Khorne daemon engine thing/throne looks like a mcdonald's toy. Does it shoot spring loaded plastic pizza discs? It looks like it does. It also looks like a pokemon.

Quite true, but the new High Elves are beautiful, and the Dark Eldar from a few years ago likewise. Some hit, some miss.

which highelves? the sparkly snowflake thing again looks like a kids toy. I think barbie should be riding it.

I showed my wife the picture and even see said it looked "happy". It's girly even by girls standards.

I wont say anything bad about the new infantry. it looks fine.

 scarletsquig wrote:
GW has had some damned stupid ideas, each new release always has 1-3 "giant plastic kit of some horribly bad idea".

Meanwhile, the core infantry is left to rot with model kits that are 15 years old and look like crap.

HE are the perfect example, this release could have been new archers and spearmen instead of stupid eagle chariot and shadow warriors plastic kit that doesn't look much different to the old metals and is the same price.

I don't know how GW have managed to constantly and completely screw up the HE release.. this edition they've both been in the starter, and gotten an army book but they're still stuck with the same old goofy as hell hamfist core plastics.

Even the Mantic elves look better than those ancient minis. Seriously, I own both the GW and Mantic ones. And I don't really like the mantic ones all that much, but the GW ones are just atrocious and need to be sent to go live on a farm pronto.

They're so bad I couldn't even give the models away to someone with a 4th edition HE army, he flat-out refused. :p

i don't kniw,the archers are pretty bad, but the spearmen? Still wouldn't take them though. You've got lothern sea guard for that

-Loki- wrote:

stonegiant wrote:

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
40k is not without it's silly new offerings...the Khorne daemon engine thing/throne looks like a mcdonald's toy. Does it shoot spring loaded plastic pizza discs? It looks like it does. It also looks like a pokemon.

Quite true, but the new High Elves are beautiful

Except for the pheonixes.

Aesthetic is an entirely personal thing - what some like, others don't. I don't have a problem with any of the Vampire Counts models, but I know plenty who don't like a lot of the new stuff.

Yip, it's all down to personal taste. Some elements of the Deamons, Dark Angels, CSM look great, some okay and some dreadful.

kb305 wrote:

stonegiant wrote:

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
40k is not without it's silly new offerings...the Khorne daemon engine thing/throne looks like a mcdonald's toy. Does it shoot spring loaded plastic pizza discs? It looks like it does. It also looks like a pokemon.

Quite true, but the new High Elves are beautiful, and the Dark Eldar from a few years ago likewise. Some hit, some miss.

which highelves? the sparkly snowflake thing again looks like a kids toy. I think barbie should be riding it.

I showed my wife the picture and even see said it looked "happy". It's girly even by girls standards.

I wont say anything bad about the new infantry. it looks fine.

You could argue that it is a kid's toy, but I like all of the new stuff. The ideas are generally good, and the models fit in nicely with the existing range.

 You can't take something like that seriously when you hold it next to the DV chosen or new plastic chaos raptors.

Has it struck anyone that the boxed kits have almost always better models?
The chosen (& even the cultists to some degree) are far better than the khornze berserkers or possesed.
Similarly, althran stormrider vs eltharion the grim and the box sea guard vs normal sea guard.
And then the goblin town dwarves vs normal dwarves

 &theyshallknownofear wrote:

 You can't take something like that seriously when you hold it next to the DV chosen or new plastic chaos raptors.

Has it struck anyone that the boxed kits have almost always better models?
The chosen (& even the cultists to some degree) are far better than the khornze berserkers or possesed.
Similarly, althran stormrider vs eltharion the grim and the box sea guard vs normal sea guard.
And then the goblin town dwarves vs normal dwarves

Most of those examples could simply be put down to age of the models.
Khorne bezerkers are what, 12 years old? The new raptors however are at the very least on par with the chosen.

I'm just tired of GW sculpting everything the same way.

Any monster that walks on 4 or more limbs has its front right arm raised, and a tilted screaming face.

I get that the idea is that if two of those kinds of models end up in HtH they'll not chip each others paint.

I'll give a quick rundown of recent kits and my opinion.

Warriors of Choas:

Chariot. Incredible model. Not only do you get a well designed kit but it comes with Lord bits and desent sized beast to use as Chaos Spawn.

Slaughterbrute/Squidface: $85 for a Skylanders toy. The Slaughter is just awful. The Squidface is alright but then it has this big swirling thing on its back. The kit is best used for bitz.

Forsaken: Worst kit in years.


Dark Angels:

Stupid looking Terminators that never needed to be made but you know GW and their SM love.

Dumb Flyer.

Stupidly ugly speeder.


Chaos Marines:

Maulerfeind: Kids toy that should cost $3.99 at walmart. It should spray water when squeezed.

Raptors: Went from sleek looking, speed loving half monsters to more marines with spikey stuff.

Helldrake:


Tau:

Pathfinders: Wonderful

Broadside: A nice reinvention.

Flyer: Ugh just horrible.

Riptide: Though I think it looks nice, it has no place in 40k. Just like the GK thing from the Aquateen movie. Why would Taumake an even bigger suit? I figure theyd make bigger drones.


Daemons: All crap. Not one good thing came from that release.

 -Loki- wrote:
I don't have a problem with any of the Vampire Counts models, but I know plenty who don't like a lot of the new stuff.

Indeed you do. The Coven Throne is

 DeffDred wrote:
I'm just tired of GW sculpting everything the same way.

Any monster that walks on 4 or more limbs has its front right arm raised, and a tilted screaming face.

I get that the idea is that if two of those kinds of models end up in HtH they'll not chip each others paint.

I'll give a quick rundown of recent kits and my opinion.

Warriors of Choas:

Chariot. Incredible model. Not only do you get a well designed kit but it comes with Lord bits and desent sized beast to use as Chaos Spawn.

Slaughterbrute/Squidface: $85 for a Skylanders toy. The Slaughter is just awful. The Squidface is alright but then it has this big swirling thing on its back. The kit is best used for bitz.

Forsaken: Worst kit in years.


Dark Angels:

Stupid looking Terminators that never needed to be made but you know GW and their SM love.

Dumb Flyer.

Stupidly ugly speeder.


Chaos Marines:

Maulerfeind: Kids toy that should cost $3.99 at walmart. It should spray water when squeezed.

Raptors: Went from sleek looking, speed loving half monsters to more marines with spikey stuff.

Helldrake:


Tau:

Pathfinders: Wonderful

Broadside: A nice reinvention.

Flyer: Ugh just horrible.

Riptide: Though I think it looks nice, it has no place in 40k. Just like the GK thing from the Aquateen movie. Why would Taumake an even bigger suit? I figure theyd make bigger drones.


Daemons: All crap. Not one good thing came from that release.

from your statement I think:
WoC
Chariot- Great great model love it
Slaughter/Octopus- Crap, cartoony, dumb model that follows GW's usual specification, to be cool it must have one arm raised be roaring and have horns...

Dark Angels: Holy God the entire release was terrible! They are effectively green monks in space

CSM:
Overall okayish reaease. I really like the Mauler/forge fiend, obviously they conform to GWs spec but they're quite nice.
Raptors-I preferred the old ones. The new ones are effectively badly modelled Daemons
Helldrake- Can't make my mind up about this I kinda like it but hate its rules and the way many players feel the need to spam them in competitive lists.
Sorcerer- Disgustingly bad
Chosen/Hellbrute- my 2 favourite units in the range

Tau- One hell of a good release.

Pathfinders- no need there good
Riptide- I love the model and get the concept, it's the Taus answer to heavy imperial veichles
Farsight- Beutiful model. Possibly my favourite character model
Broadside- Preferred old ones

Daemons: Meh
Flamers- CRAP!!!
Chariot- not my cup of tea, k though Tzeetch one=CRAP!!!
Heralds- CRAP!!! Except Khorne one
Nurglings- DO THE feth*NG GREATER DAEMONS, STOP WASTING TIME ON THIS SH*T!!!!!!
Plauge Drones- Hate the concept its typical GW but nice models

BaconUprising wrote:

Sorcerer- Disgustingly bad

Forgot about him. I agree.

Chosen/Hellbrute- my 2 favourite units in the range

Yeah, both are excellent.

Farsight- Beutiful model. Possibly my favourite character model

Yeah he does look good. I like that they made him just unique enough to fit but also to stand out.

Nurglings- DO THE feth*NG GREATER DAEMONS, STOP WASTING TIME ON THIS SH*T!!!!!!

LOL yeah. I liked the new nurglings alright. But they definatly need to work on the ancient casts.

Plauge Drones- Hate the concept its typical GW but nice models

Forgot abut them. My roommate bicked up a few. I want some of those wings for future conversions.


BTW wasn't the Tau answer to heavy tanks a strength 10 ap 1 72 inch range weapon?

Yeah but it's always good to have a bunch of closer range weapons that kinda do the same thing but worse for a higher points cost and a massive potential to kill yourself. I mean why not?

Im just brousing through the GW website and this caught my eye:

Lucks just like a character from an anime i used to watch as a young un:


Other than that:

High Elves:

the coral phoenix-absoloupt crap. Never, never ever was this a good idea

The skycutter-a giant eagle being anally raped by a kiddys toy. No thankyou

the various characters-all of them are poised like a kiddys toy

sisters of averlorn-more coral

Demons:

All the chariots-i would rather go to mcdonalds and get it for free with a meal. Save having to paint it too

herald of slaanesh-how the hell is this supposed to be lithe and seductive. it looks hellishly overweight and awkward

the demon prince-looks like a skylanders giant, as i believe someone else has already said

daemonettes-these have gone from the promiscous, seductive, agile Diaz models, to clunky, fugly, horrible things

slaanesh seeker chariot-please feth no this is just wrong. The crew need a complete overhaul.

those feinds of slaanesh-a very bland choice

exalted seeker chariot-yo daug i saw you like fugly dino thingys with fugly deamon women riding them so i put fugly dinos with fugly demon women riding them with your fugly chariot and added more sythes

soul grinder-an obviously 40K model in a fantasy setting

Chaos marines

Ooh marines with spiky bits. Line needs a complete over haul

the space dragon power rangers thingy

the kiddys tor power rangers/transformers dinowhatsit

the general lack of feel to the army

SMs

the flying fish/GIjoe toy

Tau

The obscene mega drone

the unnesacarry mecha sized battle suit that has no purpose other than for GW to pump out yet another big shiny kit

those new pathfinders-whatever happened to calm, methodical and disciplined

general:

the "every army shall have a massive kit no matter what" idealism

the derpy huge kits

the fact that every warrior is screaming a battle cry. One does wonder if any actual fighting takes place or if in reality both armys just line up and scream at each other until the loser backs down with severe hearing problems.