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Sigh... I am still in wonder that Finecast has people defending it... what are we? 2 years in? The opinion of both stores and the professional painting community is nearly universal that it adds hours of frustrating prep or returned product for little to no gain.

I am under the impression that people still loving finecast and claiming it is better than metal (barring models that were too heavy as metals to put together easily) have to be either:
A) Insanely, insanely lucky with their purchases
B) Completely and totally immune to evidence
C) The absolutely most amazing marketing audience ever and I should be taking their names down.

Yes you could say the above is condescending but we are well past the point in the evidence cycle in my opinion where the matter was particularly up for debate anymore. Finecast may have been good if it wasn't for the atrocious lack of QC and casting consistency, as it stands, the risk of getting a dud model even if the number is only 20% makes it a giant pain and a big risk to pros and stores, and frankly, if you have standards, the average gamer as well.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Sigh... I am still in wonder that Finecast has people defending it... what are we? 2 years in? The opinion of both stores and the professional painting community is nearly universal that it adds hours of frustrating prep or returned product for little to no gain.

I am under the impression that people still loving finecast and claiming it is better than metal (barring models that were too heavy as metals to put together easily) have to be either:
A) Insanely, insanely lucky with their purchases
B) Completely and totally immune to evidence
C) The absolutely most amazing marketing audience ever and I should be taking their names down.

Yes you could say the above is condescending but we are well past the point in the evidence cycle in my opinion where the matter was particularly up for debate anymore. Finecast may have been good if it wasn't for the atrocious lack of QC and casting consistency, as it stands, the risk of getting a dud model even if the number is only 20% makes it a giant pain and a big risk to pros and stores, and frankly, if you have standards, the average gamer as well.

It's just first wave problems.

Stop being a hater!

Finecast problems? Nahhhhh its a wonderful material that is competing for the last slot side by side with the worst blind bat garage casters outfit in the world... I think GW will win this one!

Finecast is a mistake in every level.

Well as a owner of a now useless Wrack army I can tell you that I had to trade up 18 boxes (90 models) of them in order to get the 28 of that werent flawed. Massive holes, missing parts and bubbles in areas that cannot be properly fixed were common. Then after I finally got my 28 good models I went through hell with weapons snapping.

Then I started with the grotesques, I got 3 and sent them back 4 times each with the problems above with the added plus of the fingers being so flimsy that I had several break while I was painting them....

So yeah, you could say I dislike finecast.

I'd prefer finecast to metal for the weight difference alone, but I've only bought 2 models in it, and both had issues, coupled with other evidence, i've steered well clear.

Hell look at the prices of Metal models on Ebay, they're rocketing, because it seems to me, other folks are avoiding it too!?

A good idea, but flawed physcially.

I'd mention the daft pricing too, but that's given

I've only purchased 2 Finecast figures, Zahndrek and his buddy Obyron. Zahndrek was great except for the long bit that hangs from his arm had a weak connection to the arm. I snipped it off, filed down the end to give it a flat surface and glued it back on with no problems. Obyron was a different story. His warscythe was bent and nothing that I tried would straighten it out, making it useless. Fortunately, with the new Necron kits, I am able to kitbash the various HQ models and Royal Court members and not have to deal with Finecast crap for my army.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I don't know how people can think Finecast is superior given its many issues. What's wrong with metal? It's a bit heavier and more difficult to file and cut. You've been spoiled on plastic kits being so easy to work with. Things being easy to cut isn't the be-all of miniatures. Overall, metal is more reliable, miscasts are far less frequent than Finecast. I've bought masses of metal figures and the miscasts are rare, if I want to see questionable casts of Finecast I only have to look at the rack in any shop. I think there's quite a correlation between the age of customers and enthusiasm for Finecast. The hatred of metal is largely from newer gamers.

Nice, you managed to insult both a person's choices AND the people themselves, both based on nothing more concrete than your own questionable opinions and prejudices. Impressive work.

Of course, back in Reality World, quite a few of us have hated metal for two or more decades now; it's harder to convert, thin parts bend ruining your paint job in the process, even the sort of small drops that happen as a result of moving minis around the tabletop can cause chipping of the paint or whole chunks of the model to break off, miscasts were ever-present despite the rose tinted view of metal some people have and made quite a few larger models a complete pain in the arse to assemble, not to mention the much longer cleanup times necessary to properly prep a metal model; flash and mould lines take longer to get rid of, you have to scrub the mini with an abrasive to minimise the chance of the paint chipping off later, you have to painstakingly bend any warped parts back into shape in case they snap off since most are too thin to be pinned properly, the massive gaping chasms to fill in at the joints, etc etc.

Restic has its own set of issues which were made worse for a long while by GW's shoddy quality control, and it's certainly not as nice to work with as hard resin or plastic, but I'll take it over a metal version of a mini any day of the week.

EDIT: And another, impressive.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Sigh... I am still in wonder that Finecast has people defending it... what are we? 2 years in? The opinion of both stores and the professional painting community is nearly universal that it adds hours of frustrating prep or returned product for little to no gain.

I am under the impression that people still loving finecast and claiming it is better than metal (barring models that were too heavy as metals to put together easily) have to be either:
A) Insanely, insanely lucky with their purchases
B) Completely and totally immune to evidence
C) The absolutely most amazing marketing audience ever and I should be taking their names down.

Yes you could say the above is condescending but we are well past the point in the evidence cycle in my opinion where the matter was particularly up for debate anymore. Finecast may have been good if it wasn't for the atrocious lack of QC and casting consistency, as it stands, the risk of getting a dud model even if the number is only 20% makes it a giant pain and a big risk to pros and stores, and frankly, if you have standards, the average gamer as well.

Here's a tip mate, if you're about to type out "you could say the above is condescending"(a charitable characterisation, frankly), and you're a mod on a forum on which the number one rule is "be polite", that's probably the point to move your mouse away from the post button and close the tab.

 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:

What are you experiences with Finecast models?

It's a terrible material completely unsuited to the job.

Did you ever have to return them for replacements?

Yup, the one figure 7 times (+4 in-store replacements that weren't suitable). In the end I gave up and let the store guy fix the worst of the damage on the last one and I'll use it as a base for conversions. The other finecast figures haven't been returned but are disturbingly fragile. I'm not going to buy another one under any circumstances, and have been sourcing what I can find in metal.

Would you prefer an all-plastic range over the Finecast minis?

To be honest I'd prefer anything else, even if they moulded it in green-stuff or outsourced the work to the Chinese recasters. I don't think plastic is the ideal solution but it'd be nice if they went to proper resin or something like Reapers Bones, Trollforged or Restic like Mantic uses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The problem with Finecast is not the material, but GW's incredibly poor (or total lack of) quality control.

The quality control is certainly poor to the point of appearing non-existent, but a lot of the problems are with the material too; it's just too soft and inconsistent to use for minis, and there have been many reports of seemingly well cast minis collapsing on themselves after a while, due to weaknesses (probably caused by bad mixes). So even if it's cast properly there's no guarantee it's a good mini.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Of course, back in Reality World, quite a few of us have hated metal for two or more decades now; it's harder to convert, thin parts bend ruining your paint job in the process, even the sort of small drops that happen as a result of moving minis around the tabletop can cause chipping of the paint or whole chunks of the model to break off,

Except resin is an equally poor material for small thin parts. It sags and snaps far too easily. Granted I know how hard it is to straighten a metal bretonnian lance, I'd still rather have to straighten a metal lance than have a sagging resin lance that is prone to snapping off.

miscasts were ever-present despite the rose tinted view of metal some people have and made quite a few larger models a complete pain in the arse to assemble

Yes, miscasts were present, but rare. I had one miscast metal model, an Epic 40k Thunderhawk Gunship in the late 90s.

not to mention the much longer cleanup times necessary to properly prep a metal model; flash and mould lines take longer to get rid of, you have to scrub the mini with an abrasive to minimise the chance of the paint chipping off later,

I've spent more time having to prep the few finecast models than I have almost any equivalent metal model. If you are happy enough with tiny bubbles everywhere and bent parts, sure, finecast is easier to prep, but if you actually want to paint the model to a decent standard you will also waste time filling those bubbles and bending parts back. Now, metal parts would bend as well, but I didn't need to use hot water to bend them back and once they were bent back, they wouldn't rewarp over time like resin does. The "scrub with abrasive" is a bit extreme, just give them a wash with soap and water and you were good... I do the same for my resin parts.

since most are too thin to be pinned properly, the massive gaping chasms to fill in at the joints, etc etc.

"most" is a bit of an exaggeration, yes, thin metal parts were a pain to do right, but so are thin resin parts because they are typically warped and won't just hold their shape if you bend them back and are more prone to snapping.

but I'll take it over a metal version of a mini any day of the week.

It really depends on the model. I have some Forge World stuff I prefer as resin, I prefer my Zoanthrope as resin (because it's too unbalanced as metal), many things are good in neither metal nor resin.

The reason I hate finecast is poor quality control and resin sags and can warp irreversibly. The first is just a problem with GW quality control or manufacturing technique, the latter is a problem with the material itself.

I'd rather spend a few more minutes cleaning mold lines than having to re-sculpt missing parts of the model. Sagging is also an issue. I'd love that new Farsight model, even at the ludicrous price of $50, but I know that even if I get a perfect cast that thing will be kissing the ground when it gets warm enough, because of how top-heavy the model is and the tiny contact point to the base.

 Yodhrin wrote:

EDIT: And another, impressive.

And what do these both tell you? Both of them, amongst others (in this thread alone, not to mention the brobdingnagian-sized thread on this very topic on Warseer for example) show that the general prevailing opinion of Finecrap is it is a steaming hunk of gak. Sure, you'll get good casts. But in practically every mature gamer I've met, their opinion of this material ranges from "meh" to "stay the hell away".

The only people who I have seen do they whole "ERMAGERD FINEKERST!" thing are younger gamers; just like Howard said.

Well if GW Q/A would do their proper job, it would get rid of the majority of cases when people open the box/blister to only find miscasts. (I've worked in the automotive industry and I can't tell you how many plastic parts are thrown away to be ground up again due to just minor details).

Then it comes to the material:

For GW they should just focus on plastic. First off you can get about the same detail in plastic as well as in finecast. Lol I really don't get why people are arguing about whether metal or finecast is better, it should be plastic vs. finecast. Mainly because GW is all about customizing your troops and such, which metal is not the best at. But I get the argument between metal and finecast, look at Infinity for example, great looking metal models, but like I said before metal can be hard to model with.

So I agree with the OP statement, for GW it should be all plastic.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I don't know how people can think Finecast is superior given its many issues. What's wrong with metal? It's a bit heavier and more difficult to file and cut. You've been spoiled on plastic kits being so easy to work with. Things being easy to cut isn't the be-all of miniatures. Overall, metal is more reliable, miscasts are far less frequent than Finecast. I've bought masses of metal figures and the miscasts are rare, if I want to see questionable casts of Finecast I only have to look at the rack in any shop. I think there's quite a correlation between the age of customers and enthusiasm for Finecast. The hatred of metal is largely from newer gamers.

tons is wrong with metal. for a simple and small infantry model, sure metal is fine.

but when GW was selling giant dragons and vehicles made out of it it was pretty terrible.

paint also doesnt like to stick to metal, even primer slides off. after a few years of gaming, if you're not very very careful you can expect your metal paintjob to be chipped up.

kb305 wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I don't know how people can think Finecast is superior given its many issues. What's wrong with metal? It's a bit heavier and more difficult to file and cut. You've been spoiled on plastic kits being so easy to work with. Things being easy to cut isn't the be-all of miniatures. Overall, metal is more reliable, miscasts are far less frequent than Finecast. I've bought masses of metal figures and the miscasts are rare, if I want to see questionable casts of Finecast I only have to look at the rack in any shop. I think there's quite a correlation between the age of customers and enthusiasm for Finecast. The hatred of metal is largely from newer gamers.

tons is wrong with metal. for a simple and small infantry model, sure metal is fine.

but when GW was selling giant dragons and vehicles made out of it it was pretty terrible.

paint also doesnt like to stick to metal, even primer slides off. after a few years of gaming, if you're not very very careful you can expect your metal paintjob to be chipped up.

The same can be said of Finecrap (but in the opposite direction). What is the point of making infantry out of it? With the larger models, they *should* make certain loadbearing parts and extremities out of metal (just like several other companies); but this would go against the "Finecast is the best in the world, it is the equivalent of the moon landing to tabletop gaming!" that GW touts.

As for the last comment. Well, that's just opinion man. All of my metal models dont explode when I look at them, nor does their paint rub off or get chipped. Good glue and good varnish can go a long way.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
What's wrong with metal?

Oh no, someone has knocked my metal War Hydra off the table! Darn it, I'm going to have spend hours and hours assembling it again! If only there were an alternative....

/patronising sarcastic tone

 The Shadow wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
What's wrong with metal?

Oh no, someone has knocked my metal War Hydra off the table! Darn it, I'm going to have spend hours and hours assembling it again! If only there were an alternative....

/patronising sarcastic tone

Oh no, someone has knocked my much lighter and will therefore fly further Finecrap War Hydra off the table! Darn it, before I even played this game I had to spend hours filling in the gaps that made this thing look like a fething aero bar and bending back the limbs with hot water as GW has crappy QC! If only there were an alternative!.

See I can do it too.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Sigh... I am still in wonder that Finecast has people defending it... what are we? 2 years in? The opinion of both stores and the professional painting community is nearly universal that it adds hours of frustrating prep or returned product for little to no gain.

I am under the impression that people still loving finecast and claiming it is better than metal (barring models that were too heavy as metals to put together easily) have to be either:
A) Insanely, insanely lucky with their purchases
B) Completely and totally immune to evidence
C) The absolutely most amazing marketing audience ever and I should be taking their names down.

Yes you could say the above is condescending but we are well past the point in the evidence cycle in my opinion where the matter was particularly up for debate anymore. Finecast may have been good if it wasn't for the atrocious lack of QC and casting consistency, as it stands, the risk of getting a dud model even if the number is only 20% makes it a giant pain and a big risk to pros and stores, and frankly, if you have standards, the average gamer as well.

Here's a tip mate, if you're about to type out "you could say the above is condescending"(a charitable characterisation, frankly), and you're a mod on a forum on which the number one rule is "be polite", that's probably the point to move your mouse away from the post button and close the tab.

And here is a tip for you sir, you could say the above is condescending. It doesn't mean it is. I need no reminders from you about the rules of this forum thank you very much. The fact that you actually agreed with me, that restic in and of itself is not the problem in principle, it is GW's shoddy quality control, makes me laugh a bit, are you not then condescending yourself? I have a problem with people who 2 years in still think they can seperate the issues, restic and quality control, when it comes to finecast. We can no longer call it phase 1 or growing pains, so the quality control in my opinion must now be taken as an intrinsic, static issue with finecast until something changes. If finecast was well cast, and the models designed/converted to it were made with the material's strength in mind (both aesthetically and structurally) I would have absolutely not problem buying it. In fact it is much easier to convert which is great!

However, personally, I prefer metal if I don't plan on converting. Ya it has it's own liabilities but overall, at lest you were pretty much guaranteed to know exactly what you were getting into most of the time. That however of course is up for debate according to personal preference. I however don't think bubbled and misaligned casting are up for debate at all... they suck. Some people, not saying you mind, but some people defend it even with those flaws, and point to liquid GS and other things as if they were some kind of reason not to be annoyed that you have to either make a return or work for an hour or 3 just to get started on the model with a basecoat.

Just because there is a MOD tag next to my name doesn't mean I don't have personal opinions, and nor does it mean I am being extra rude or rude at all for giving a general opinion. There was no name calling, I simply expressed my disbelief that anyone, 2 years into this crap, would still either be pretending the issues don't exist and/or that they don't matter. I think that is a pretty objective observation at this point. Stores don't carry it, either because they got fed-up previously or because GW now wants to avoid sending finecast blisters due to the huge expenses of the multiple returns... Now GW wants to sell the blisters direct as much as possible so they can take a greater profit and absorb the return costs a bit better. A significant portion of the community (gamers) avoid it either by reputation or experience. Pro painters as we see are jumping ship at an astounding rate. All I'm saying is can we at least not pretend there is no issue here, even if you personally like the stuff lol!

For the record, I do use FC myself, usually when I will be hacking the model up for a lot of conversion (blood angels and space marines), if I plan to just do a simple tabletop and leave it at that (my necrons) or if I have no choice (Open day model 2012). So far, I would say about 30% of the 20 models I have were acceptable. 50% had relatively minor issues but took at least half an hour to correct them, and 20% were wtf happend bad. I know what I'm getting into when I make a purchase though, especially online. I can definitely say that I miss metal for the thinner bits like swords etc...

I have to dismantle this. It's like an effigy of a giant penis in a primary school yard.

 Yodhrin wrote:

...
Of course, back in Reality World, quite a few of us have hated metal for two or more decades now; it's harder to convert

Not really, with correct tools. A dremel (milling bit, a few grind stones, brass brush, usual HSS jobber bits), good set of files, decent knife, decent snips.

, thin parts bend ruining your paint job in the process,

Far less chance of bending than most resins, and substantially less chance of snapping. Edit: High lead content alloys do bend easily, if left loose, rattling around in a box.

even the sort of small drops that happen as a result of moving minis around the tabletop can cause chipping of the paint

No. Prep surface correctly (wash, dry, prime), put on a protective coat with something decent (I like Future / Klear floor polish) and then finishing coats.

or whole chunks of the model to break off,

Not if assembled properly. Pins where necessary, *decent* superglue or epoxy adhesive.

miscasts were ever-present despite the rose tinted view of metal some people have

Over 25 years I've been collecting and painting. 'Ever present' implies constant. Bluntly false.

and made quite a few larger models a complete pain in the arse to assemble,

Yes, some models are problematic, but usually as a result of off-balance design rather than simple size. Oddly though the toughest metal model I ever had to mess with was Urien Rackarth. Larger models tended to be better suited for pinning. I'm currently working a 110mm Poste Militaire 'Sailor' Malan (WW2 Fighter Pilot). It's huge, it's metal, and it's not a problem. Same true for the old Marauder / Citadel metal giants.

not to mention the much longer cleanup times necessary to properly prep a metal model; flash and mould lines take longer to get rid of, you have to scrub the mini with an abrasive to minimise the chance of the paint chipping off later, you have to painstakingly bend any warped parts back into shape in case they snap off since most are too thin to be pinned properly, the massive gaping chasms to fill in at the joints, etc etc.

No:
Fixing a bent metal sword / lance / banner pole takes possibly 2 minutes of 'pinch/pull' straightening. Fixing a bent resin part (pre-cure pull warping) can be impossible.
Cleanup of flash on metal can be done VERY easily with a soft wire brush and dremel, even into recesses. Flash on plastics and resins can actually be much more difficult to remove due to the softness of the material. A good knife and set of needle files can also do wonders. On resins, files are often best avoided unless the resin is of the harder type. Home made emery sticks tend to work better. Finecast is a very soft material and does not handle abrasives at all well. Similarly, the PVC used by CMON does not handle abrasives well, however the amount of flash and cutting back on those in my limited experience of them seems far less to deal with. Especially when coupled with properly filled moulds and bubble-free material.
Gap filling is the same on any model, and is a factor of the engineering of the mould and casting process rather than the material.

Restic has its own set of issues which were made worse for a long while by GW's shoddy quality control, and it's certainly not as nice to work with as hard resin or plastic, but I'll take it over a metal version of a mini any day of the week.

Finecast is not a restic. It is a two-part urethane resin. 'Made worse for a long while' implies the issues have been fixed, or diminished in frequency. This does not appear to be the case. Restics (plastic/resin hybrids) as used by PP and Mantic seem to behave more similarly to a very hard PVC.

Any other complete nonsense you'd like me to refute?

 The Shadow wrote:

Oh no, someone has knocked my metal War Hydra off the table!

You probably shouldn't let people do that. Or put large, expensive models like that so close to the table edge to begin with.

That said, I don't imagine very many large, expensive kits like dragons, vehicles etc. surviving a fall to the ground regardless of what they're made of. Anyone with a fleet of plastic valkyries want to let them dangle half-off the table edge and tell me what happens if/when they collide with the ground? I imagine the one thing they won't do is explode into several pieces and require hours of fixing, since plastic is such a fething wonder material that can survive nuclear blasts and won't even need a touch-up after the fact.

Also, what would happen to your Finecast hydra? I can imagine heads and tails breaking off much the same, and not just at the joins. That's going to take "hours and hours" to fix since you'll likely have to use some green stuff around the new cracks in the center of their necks, and then there's the possibility of little chunks breaking off the more brittle bits, like their giant spikes, noses, teeth, claws, other kinds of fiddly details. No, if I had to take a chance with models falling onto the floor I'd much rather have metal in that case, too. I'll risk wasting "hours and hours" gluing the fething heads back on and doing a little touching up over having to do much more painstaking repairs for a brittle-ass Finecast model.

Sounds like a reasonable policy. It's considerate really, commission painters don't want to charge more for required work with a lower-quality miniature.

Grimtuff wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
What's wrong with metal?

Oh no, someone has knocked my metal War Hydra off the table! Darn it, I'm going to have spend hours and hours assembling it again! If only there were an alternative....

/patronising sarcastic tone

Oh no, someone has knocked my much lighter and will therefore fly further Finecrap War Hydra off the table! Darn it, before I even played this game I had to spend hours filling in the gaps that made this thing look like a fething aero bar and bending back the limbs with hot water as GW has crappy QC! If only there were an alternative!.

See I can do it too.

1) These are accidents, not people playing cricket. Neither is going to fly very far and the distance it does is completely irrelevant.
2) As someone who's assembled many finecast models since they've come out, I can tell you going to this extent is rarely necessary. True, it sometimes is, which brings me to point number...
3) Maybe you did spend hours filling in the gaps, but if someone knocks it off the table, you're not going to have to do it all again. Whereas, with a metal model, it will break and you will have to spend ages reassembling it.

Sidstyler wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

Oh no, someone has knocked my metal War Hydra off the table!

You probably shouldn't let people do that. Or put large, expensive models like that so close to the table edge to begin with.

That said, I don't imagine very many large, expensive kits like dragons, vehicles etc. surviving a fall to the ground regardless of what they're made of.

Sadly, accidents do happen and, in fact, Hydras work well on the flanks. It's true that the size of the model isn't really that relevant. However, if I knocked a metal infantry model off the table, it would be far more likely to break than its finecast counterpart.

Their business their decision, but I've had nothing but terrible experiences with metal models and ok experiences with finecast.

It seems to me the only people who absolutely hate metal are those who don't know how to work with it. Once you become even moderately competent with pinning, and use a decent glue (araldite for me), you'll be coming apart before that model does.

The only thing I'll say finecast has going for it is ironically enough the cleanup time. It can take an age to sand away all the mold lines on a metal mini, with finecast they're usually gone with a couple of scrapes.

V1ND4LOO wrote:
It seems to me the only people who absolutely hate metal are those who don't know how to work with it. Once you become even moderately competent with pinning, and use a decent glue (araldite for me), you'll be coming apart before that model does.

The only thing I'll say finecast has going for it is ironically enough the cleanup time. It can take an age to sand away all the mold lines on a metal mini, with finecast they're usually gone with a couple of scrapes.

I much prefer finecast to metal because I would rather fill a few holes than have to resculpt (attempt to anyway) half the model.

 Krellnus wrote:

V1ND4LOO wrote:
It seems to me the only people who absolutely hate metal are those who don't know how to work with it. Once you become even moderately competent with pinning, and use a decent glue (araldite for me), you'll be coming apart before that model does.

The only thing I'll say finecast has going for it is ironically enough the cleanup time. It can take an age to sand away all the mold lines on a metal mini, with finecast they're usually gone with a couple of scrapes.

I much prefer finecast to metal because I would rather fill a few holes than have to resculpt (attempt to anyway) half the model.

Yes, because that is such a common occurrence in metal...

 Sigvatr wrote:
Finecast > metal by a long shot, despite the price of course but that's not related to the material. I fecking despise metal. It's the worse thing that could happen to your miniatures.

You must be new or something. EIther that or your going to have to explain that one.

Metal is durable. Lasts quite some time, forever. And has great detail in comparison, and less chance of miscast. Now its much harder to convert, but if you cut your teeth on kitbashing metal, its easy after a time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Anyway, what are we supposed to discuss here? The lack of business sense coming out from a few miniature painting companies?

The only lack of business sense seems to be yours. When someone of a more professional caliber, who does it for money says finecast takes more time to prep, or comes to them badly AND cant get as great a paint job as with other materials like plastic or metal......I'd take their word over yours.

carmachu wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Anyway, what are we supposed to discuss here? The lack of business sense coming out from a few miniature painting companies?

The only lack of business sense seems to be yours. When someone of a more professional caliber, who does it for money says finecast takes more time to prep, or comes to them badly AND cant get as great a paint job as with other materials like plastic or metal......I'd take their word over yours.

Esp. coming from someone with HMV as their name criticizing business acumen.

Good irony there.

Personnaly I have around 20 finecast models, nearly all characters and I have had to return 1 and have a few issues with another one, and that is it rest have been fine. The one returned (pedro) was missing his arm so mis packaged rather then other issues and belial has the tip of his sword missing.

I prefer finecast to metal, but you know what its my opinion from my experince .

 The Shadow wrote:
However, if I knocked a metal infantry model off the table, it would be far more likely to break than its finecast counterpart.

That depends entirely on the model. If the model is large but with small joins, then the joins are more likely to fail on a metal model... though realistically if you're using decent glue it takes a lot to break metal joins on infantry sized models.

If the model has any thin shafts or thin anything, metal is likely to bend where finecast is likely to snap. One of my friends who was very careless with his models was constantly dropping his metal models and the spears just bent and he'd bend them back again. Not great because the paint would come off where it was bent back and forth, but better than completely snapping IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkyMark wrote:
Personnaly I have around 20 finecast models, nearly all characters and I have had to return 1 and have a few issues with another one, and that is it rest have been fine. The one returned (pedro) was missing his arm so mis packaged rather then other issues and belial has the tip of his sword missing.

I prefer finecast to metal, but you know what its my opinion from my experince .

You must have amazing luck or be very good at cherry picking models. I can randomly pick 20 models off the shelves at my local GW and see a significant proportion with serious flaws and pretty much all of them will have small bubbles if nothing else.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

V1ND4LOO wrote:
It seems to me the only people who absolutely hate metal are those who don't know how to work with it. Once you become even moderately competent with pinning, and use a decent glue (araldite for me), you'll be coming apart before that model does.

The only thing I'll say finecast has going for it is ironically enough the cleanup time. It can take an age to sand away all the mold lines on a metal mini, with finecast they're usually gone with a couple of scrapes.

I much prefer finecast to metal because I would rather fill a few holes than have to resculpt (attempt to anyway) half the model.

Yes, because that is such a common occurrence in metal...

Yeah I would call every larger than infantry model a common occurrence, wouldn't you?