Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey fellow DakkaDakkaists!

Here in Europe there is a(nother) big discussion about Citadel Finecast models going on right now.

Some of the best and best known commission painters have banned Finecast models from their commission work.

Even though Games Workshop had stated time and time again that now they have their 'Quality Control' in place, more and more people refuse to buy Finecast models.

Atacams banned all commissions as he is frustrated to have to "rectify the atrocious miscasts and bubbles in prep time". Top-Painter Arsies banned Finecast commissions because he "needs one extra day just to clean and repair the miniature" and Poland based Fantasygames

In the comments to the linked article, many other commission painters stated that they either don't like or don't accept Finecast miniatures anymore.
Some of the Gamers stated, that they "only get the stuff they need for their armies, but nothing more".

What are you experiences with Finecast models?
Did you ever have to return them for replacements?
Would you prefer an all-plastic range over the Finecast minis?

Finecast > metal by a long shot, despite the price of course but that's not related to the material. I fecking despise metal. It's the worse thing that could happen to your miniatures.

finecast is the shoddiest material i have ever seen. i refuse to buy it, thats why i only bought 1 new tau model and thats the broadside, if the crisis commander and or farsight were plastic or metal i probably would have bought them. It's disgusting and disingenuous for a massive, popular game company to use such a cheap shoddy material and claim its superior. every model i have seen has either had bubbles or is bent over, with horrendous mold lines.

Never had a serious problem with Finecast. Much prefer it over metal.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I fecking despise metal. It's the worse thing that could happen to your miniatures.

Word.

Anyway, what are we supposed to discuss here? The lack of business sense coming out from a few miniature painting companies?

*slowly shaking head*

I've ...Okay... I've woken up in opposite world.

I can understand someone saying - ok I like lightweight models that are easy to glue together - so Finecast could have been good. But to just categorically claim it's superior to metal? And to act as if it's some kind of universal truth that only dullards don't accept? Shenanigans - I call them.

Metal has issues but I've never opened up a metal blister and had the model pockmarked full of holes - or pieces so thin you could see through.

I've had metal models break - but usually they bend or come apart at the seams - finecast is so frail I've had several models break from minor falls - just pieces snapping off all over.

It's also telling to note that the worst metal models I've had in the last 4 years were all GW models - with trailings gallore and flash and mismatched pieces. Other people were/are doing metal just fine. GWs quality control isn't going to magically get better by switching to a ludicrously frail material.

UltraPrime wrote:
Never had a serious problem with Finecast. Much prefer it over metal.

This sums up my experience with Finecast, and if some painter banns it I hardly care to be honest.

I don't know how people can think Finecast is superior given its many issues. What's wrong with metal? It's a bit heavier and more difficult to file and cut. You've been spoiled on plastic kits being so easy to work with. Things being easy to cut isn't the be-all of miniatures. Overall, metal is more reliable, miscasts are far less frequent than Finecast. I've bought masses of metal figures and the miscasts are rare, if I want to see questionable casts of Finecast I only have to look at the rack in any shop. I think there's quite a correlation between the age of customers and enthusiasm for Finecast. The hatred of metal is largely from newer gamers.

 Trondheim wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:
Never had a serious problem with Finecast. Much prefer it over metal.

This sums up my experience with Finecast, and if some painter banns it I hardly care to be honest.

This is merely a market dictating terms on how they handle commissions.

From their experience, Finecast appears harder to work with given that there are a few flaws (bubbles and miscasts, not like the whole thing is a riddled swiss cheese plastic husk). These commissioners are paid by the job and if these jobs take too long, it comes out of their bottom line by how many commissions they can accept.

So in short, it is not GW that has failed nor the painters, but merely a policy shift to help make it easier for paid work to be done on time and reasonably priced.

The white metal models were in this gamers opinion were far superior to the finecast crap, I've gone through 4 sets of Gondor Command sets that were absolutely atrocious and or completely broken. That and in my temperate, cool dry mini-storage closet I've had a finecast melt enough to droop, never had that issue with the white metal. Not to mention the white metal is not lead or the resin ie. detrimental to you health.

I grew up on metal figures, and have experience with several makers of metal and resin made figures, IMO finecast is crap, GW doesn't have a quality control, metal i harder to work with, but missing detail is rare.

Uhm, Warone, the commission guys are clearly saying that they can't trust finecast.

Doesnt surprise me really, its a subpar material and probably costs commission painters more time and hassle than its worth.

Also to all those people saying how its better than metal, lets be honest, its not. Ever bought a tau shield drone upgrade pack for example? tell me that was a worse kit in metal.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I don't know how people can think Finecast is superior given its many issues. What's wrong with metal? It's a bit heavier and more difficult to file and cut. You've been spoiled on plastic kits being so easy to work with. Things being easy to cut isn't the be-all of miniatures. Overall, metal is more reliable, miscasts are far less frequent than Finecast. I've bought masses of metal figures and the miscasts are rare, if I want to see questionable casts of Finecast I only have to look at the rack in any shop. I think there's quite a correlation between the age of customers and enthusiasm for Finecast. The hatred of metal is largely from newer gamers.

So you're anecdotal evidence is stronger than others; and their probably children or newbs anyway? I think we'll park that one their then.

My own experience is that I've had 20 years of metal models that can be a pig to put together but only very minor flaws if any and one year of finecast models (4?) without any flaws but aren't that difficult to put together. I'm no having an issue with it, some of the other resins out there well that's another story.

 WarOne wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:
Never had a serious problem with Finecast. Much prefer it over metal.

This sums up my experience with Finecast, and if some painter banns it I hardly care to be honest.

This is merely a market dictating terms on how they handle commissions.

From their experience, Finecast appears harder to work with given that there are a few flaws (bubbles and miscasts, not like the whole thing is a riddled swiss cheese plastic husk). These commissioners are paid by the job and if these jobs take too long, it comes out of their bottom line by how many commissions they can accept.

Yeah...that's not true at all. It's not even an extra ten minutes of repairs, and I don't do this for a living like they do.

This is just the OP(who runs "masterminis.blogspot.de") hawking his site and linking to advertisers/partners.
It happens quite often with this individual.

But on topic?
I haven't heard of these "commission painters" before. What great exposure they're getting now!

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I
Uhm, Warone, the commission guys are clearly saying that they can't trust finecast.

Absolutely fine when they cast the die on this decision. It's their choice to preclude Finecast from commissions if they so choose.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:


This is just the OP(who runs "masterminis.blogspot.de") hawking his site and linking to advertisers/partners.
It happens quite often with this individual.

But on topic?
I haven't heard of these "commission painters" before. What great exposure they're getting now!

So...no news at all other than to glint a bit of publicity?

I'll take five!

The problem with Finecast is not the material, but GW's incredibly poor (or total lack of) quality control. It certainly says something about them when they clearly feel that it is easier and cheaper to just mail you a replacement model than to make sure the initial model is good before it even leaves the factory. Sure, metal can be a pain at times, too, but given the choice between GW's old metals or their current Finecast, I will go with metal every day.

I can live with Fincecast for the odd mini (ordered one today in fact - the Beastlord with 2 Axes), but I generally stick with plastic where possible.

I never ever enjoyed working with metal minis and putting aside the quality control issues, there can be no denying that a large finecast model is more likely to stay in one piece than it's metal equivalent.

Where Finecast really fails is on flimsy components, like swords and staffs. They're usually bent for starters and snap at the slightest provocation.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not even an extra ten minutes of repairs

For all Finecast models? You know this for a fact?

While I'm no fan of working with metal, all of my Finecast models have required extra work due to the shoddy nature of the project. It's a poor material, and Games Workshop have no real intent of controlling the quality. The prices (which have never changed in 10 years-source Kingsley) are also atrocious, but that's a whole other discussion.

It's also a very soft and 'bendy' material, which can lead to irreparable damage which I have no way of fixing.

I don't like metal. Even the slightest thing is hard to fix, the weight is fine for the model overall but when you have a metal banner or something you're never going to get it glued on without pinning it. It chips a lot easier too.

And yet I would still take it over finecast any time. In my climate I have had more than 1 sword bend past 90 degrees just on the ride to my FLGS on a warm day. Quality control is a joke, of the 13 models I have gotten each required more time to fix than metal or plastic, and about 2/3rds there just atrocious and have been returned/condemned to the bottom of my bitz box forever. Worst of all though is being told by the guy at my local GW that the 2 models I am holding are fine, and that fur has a texture like that anyway despite both models being terrible. Frankly I can understand how the problems could have been missed by the guys in the warehouse (in a hard to see place) but when these are the 3rd and 4th of the same model I am trying with the exact same problems and there are still bits of the mold attached to the model the passive aggressive attitude to me complaining about the 'best quality models in the world' is just insulting.


If other people aren't getting miscasts or having things melt on them then good for them. I've had that happen though and there is no saving grace other than them being easier to convert so I am done with finecast.

 Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
*slowly shaking head*

I've ...Okay... I've woken up in opposite world.

I can understand someone saying - ok I like lightweight models that are easy to glue together - so Finecast could have been good. But to just categorically claim it's superior to metal? And to act as if it's some kind of universal truth that only dullards don't accept? Shenanigans - I call them.

Metal has issues but I've never opened up a metal blister and had the model pockmarked full of holes - or pieces so thin you could see through.

I've had metal models break - but usually they bend or come apart at the seams - finecast is so frail I've had several models break from minor falls - just pieces snapping off all over.

It's also telling to note that the worst metal models I've had in the last 4 years were all GW models - with trailings gallore and flash and mismatched pieces. Other people were/are doing metal just fine. GWs quality control isn't going to magically get better by switching to a ludicrously frail material.

This.

I'm failing to see what the big problem with metal is. Most of people's problems I have found is them using gak glue. Use a good glue and metal models will go together just fine. If we believe the internet hyperbole brigade then metal models shatter into their component parts and more from either a stern look and/or a stiff breeze.

Nope. gak glue again.

Metal is great. Finecast is a great material in theory, but its crappy quality has tarnished GW's reputation forever in many people's eyes.

I've been assembling the Necron HQ's my wife got me when they were first released. I own all of them except Orikan, so that's what, 8? so To a one, they have require significant repairs and about half of them needed to have a replacement sent. The replacements weren't really better than the originals and in one case (the Overlord), the replacement was somewhat worse. As they were gifts I was in an awkward spot, since I couldn't keep returning them all over and over again.

The material itself is definitely superior to metals for some models (like Terminators, MANZ and other chunky models), but in my anecdotal experience, the awful way in which they are cast renders them garbage, and in cases where they have delicate details, such as staves and such, unfit for sale. I can't blame GWS though - obviously people are buying them, so why even make an effort? Why feet them steak when they'll eat shiat?

On the plus side, I've learned a lot about sculpting with replacing all the detail that was missing or unsalvageable.

Also, I'm not so sure "never gotten a miscast in metal" is true. I spotted a lucky auction on ebay recently for SM sergeants that seem to be OOP (I've never quite seen them anywhere else, they were GWS sealed blister pack so pretty sure legit) and one of those had some pretty significant mold slip as well, and of course in metal it was much harder to repair. I have a lot less experience with metal models than most of you so I'll defer to your experience. I do have a metal SAG and TFG and those both sucked super hard, i think repairing a finecast version of either of those would have been preferable.

@Grimtuff - I agree wholly about the reputation hit. Prior to Finecast I always considered GWS to be a very expensive brand, but also a real premium product where quality errors were rare and their customer services would swifty rectify those few mistakes. I have a lot less confidence in buying their stuff now, and I won't buy Finecast at all since I know it's likely to be messed up, and they may not have a better one to send out. I think a lot less of them over this then I do over all their litigation adventures and price hikes.

 notprop wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I don't know how people can think Finecast is superior given its many issues. What's wrong with metal? It's a bit heavier and more difficult to file and cut. You've been spoiled on plastic kits being so easy to work with. Things being easy to cut isn't the be-all of miniatures. Overall, metal is more reliable, miscasts are far less frequent than Finecast. I've bought masses of metal figures and the miscasts are rare, if I want to see questionable casts of Finecast I only have to look at the rack in any shop. I think there's quite a correlation between the age of customers and enthusiasm for Finecast. The hatred of metal is largely from newer gamers.

So you're anecdotal evidence is stronger than others; and their probably children or newbs anyway? I think we'll park that one their then.

My own experience is that I've had 20 years of metal models that can be a pig to put together but only very minor flaws if any and one year of finecast models (4?) without any flaws but aren't that difficult to put together. I'm no having an issue with it, some of the other resins out there well that's another story.

Anecdotal yes, but given the huge amount of complaints online and the feedback of actual retailers who have handled a large volume of figures, it is possible to draw some conclusions as to overall product quality.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:
Never had a serious problem with Finecast. Much prefer it over metal.

This sums up my experience with Finecast, and if some painter banns it I hardly care to be honest.

This is merely a market dictating terms on how they handle commissions.

From their experience, Finecast appears harder to work with given that there are a few flaws (bubbles and miscasts, not like the whole thing is a riddled swiss cheese plastic husk). These commissioners are paid by the job and if these jobs take too long, it comes out of their bottom line by how many commissions they can accept.

Yeah...that's not true at all. It's not even an extra ten minutes of repairs, and I don't do this for a living like they do.

This is just the OP(who runs "masterminis.blogspot.de") hawking his site and linking to advertisers/partners.
It happens quite often with this individual.

But on topic?
I haven't heard of these "commission painters" before. What great exposure they're getting now!

I know all of them. Some of them do work for several major miniature manufacturers, not just private commissions. They've all been going for years. Their experience pretty much matches mine, and in terms of repair time, Finecast is usually (not always) much much more. When you're in the game of building / painting toy soldiers for a living, time is money. Time you have to spend on fixing stuff is time you either have to charge for or lose money on.

Kanluwen; you are talking utter tosh.

Well, the "it's just growing pains while they learn the new material" and "it's just the first wave that had problems" wells are both dry, so that leaves people who are inclined to whitewash issues with few cards left to play.

I've never heard of any of these guys, but literally the only person I could name who does commissions is Ifalna. So, not really in my wheelhouse either.

 Ouze wrote:
Well, the "it's just growing pains while they learn the new material" and "it's just the first wave that had problems" wells are both dry, so that leaves people who are inclined to whitewash issues with few cards left to play.

I've never heard of any of these guys, but literally the only person I could name who does commissions is Ifalna. So, not really in my wheelhouse either.

"Hey guys, we can't say the material is new anymore, and we can't say it was just initial wave problems, so what do we say?"

"Whats wrong with not using the same argument over and over again? These people are idiots, they will never know."

"It's been two years."

"Oh."

"Okay, new idea. We make pot shots at their credibility, making claims with no evidence they are simply doing this to get more money, instead of making points against their arguments with evidence."

You joke about "making claims with no evidence" and "doing things to get money", but one person here on Dakka really did go out of their way to accuse Finecast haters of digging around in GW's trash for flawed models just to badmouth them online, and were paid to do so by GW competitors like Mantic and PP.

 Sidstyler wrote:
You joke about "making claims with no evidence" and "doing things to get money", but one person here on Dakka really did go out of their way to accuse Finecast haters of digging around in GW's trash for flawed models just to badmouth them online, and were paid to do so by GW competitors like Mantic and PP.

Wasn't that the person who claimed Chinese people were paid by their government to support Chinese retailers?

And then said he wasn't racist.

First Finecast kit I got was the single worst quality kit I've Ever gotten. The replacement was one of the best. The two characters I've gotten were rather shoddy, but not as bad as that first unit box. Overall I do not like the material as I find it weak and brittle and quite prone to small/thin parts breaking off.

Would rather have metal than Finecast, but I'd MUCH rather have plastic than both.

 notprop wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I don't know how people can think Finecast is superior given its many issues. What's wrong with metal? It's a bit heavier and more difficult to file and cut. You've been spoiled on plastic kits being so easy to work with. Things being easy to cut isn't the be-all of miniatures. Overall, metal is more reliable, miscasts are far less frequent than Finecast. I've bought masses of metal figures and the miscasts are rare, if I want to see questionable casts of Finecast I only have to look at the rack in any shop. I think there's quite a correlation between the age of customers and enthusiasm for Finecast. The hatred of metal is largely from newer gamers.

So you're anecdotal evidence is stronger than others; and their probably children or newbs anyway? I think we'll park that one their then.

My own experience is that I've had 20 years of metal models that can be a pig to put together but only very minor flaws if any and one year of finecast models (4?) without any flaws but aren't that difficult to put together. I'm no having an issue with it, some of the other resins out there well that's another story.

You're right, some of the other stuff out there is bad as well - the FoW tanks in particular (when they first moved production to Malaysia or wherever it was) had a real drop in quality, although I think there was enough of a stink about it that the new releases seem to have sorted this out.

Personally I've regarded Finecast as something of a mixed bag - it's not a complete disaster, but certainly a step down from metal in terms of the final quality of the product, and I think has done damage to GW within the industry at least, and probably for a lot of collectors. . Like many here, I grew up with metal and so I'm perfectly happy rolling my sleeves up and giving it a go. Ultimately you won't notice if a finished product is made from the stuff, but you will notice if it has bingo-wings (like an Asmodai miniature I saw a while ago had).

In any case - money talks. If these guys aren't taking FC on board any more, it must be sufficiently bad for them to be prepared to make such a statement. Money lost by having to spend time repairing shoddy production is obviously greater than the money they would make from creating commission pieces in FC in the first place.