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I don't believe GW would drop WHFB. That would leave them with only one game.

They are more likely to quietly drop some of the less popualr armies out of Fantasy and 40K.

SoBs regrettably would be a likely candidate.

Its not like these games were really balanced or well supported to begin with. I've never played BFG, but mordheim and necromunda and bloodbowl all needed some updating and rewriting of the rules otherwise everything came down to who had the best stats for the least point cost. For bloodbowl and mordheim especially there were certain armies/teams that were head and shoulders above the rest always. Doesn't mean the games weren't fun for a little bit, they just didn't have staying power. The fact that they are still around after 10 years of sitting in a dark neglected corner is something in and of itself. The models are all completely unmecessary as newer models are much better to convert from. There are also entire lines of alternative companies that make blood bowl minis, or scifi 10-15mm minis. GW hasn't made anything new in those realms for over a decade almost.

I think they will cut Warhammer World. High overhead (rent, utilities, insurance) and low profit potential.

AS for Specialsit Games, did anyone else notice that as Specialist Games declines; more "competitor's for GW" appeared and thrive dint eh niches GW was leaving?

Infinity/Malifaux/Dust- Skirmish
WarMachine- Started as Skirmish but expanded
Flames of War- Operational/Big Battles
Spartan Games- Naval/Space

Coinicdence? I think not. GW had kept gamers completely inhouse no matter what type of game they wanted to play. Now, they don't and they have lost market dominance.

What a HUGE strategic mistake.

I voted LoTR/Hobbit.

I don't think it will happen soon, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if within 2 years of the last hobbit film LoTR/Hobbit goes the way of Necromunda.

 Easy E wrote:
Coinicdence? I think not. GW had kept gamers completely inhouse no matter what type of game they wanted to play. Now, they don't and they have lost market dominance.

What a HUGE strategic mistake.

And I think that point isn't touched on enough. In times past, when you burn out playing 40k but still fancy gaming you had these side games to hold your interest and hoover your cash. Fancy a blood bowl session? £30 for game and a team. Epic force? No problem, you get to use Titans. And so on.

True, the games didn't make nearly as much as Space Marines. But their real value was keeping the customer hooked on their products and preventing them looking into alternatives.

My 2 cents.

I think this event was overdue. While sad, they've basically just been a rarely visited section of the GW website for about a decade now. They've been direct only for years and years, the last model to come out for a specialist game I think was the AdMech ships for BFG...6 years ago.

At this point, given that they've essentially been dead products for so long, I'm not surprised. This is one thing where, as sad as it is, I can't actually hold it against GW.

Realistically, these games also had *real* competition now, particularly from Spartan Games with much newer and more expansive (and cheaper!) model lines. This is a big thing I think people are missing. Why pay 15 Pounds for 2 plastic BFG cruisers when you can spend 10 Pounds for 2 Resin Firestorm Armada cruisers? Same thing with Dystopian Wars vs Epic.


I can't say this is particularly indicative of anything.

 Vaktathi wrote:
My 2 cents.

I think this event was overdue. While sad, they've basically just been a rarely visited section of the GW website for about a decade now. They've been direct only for years and years, the last model to come out for a specialist game I think was the AdMech ships for BFG...6 years ago.

At this point, given that they've essentially been dead products for so long, I'm not surprised. This is one thing where, as sad as it is, I can't actually hold it against GW.

Realistically, these games also had *real* competition now, particularly from Spartan Games with much newer and more expansive (and cheaper!) model lines. This is a big thing I think people are missing. Why pay 15 Pounds for 2 plastic BFG cruisers when you can spend 10 Pounds for 2 Resin Firestorm Armada cruisers? Same thing with Dystopian Wars vs Epic.


I can't say this is particularly indicative of anything.

Because for some of us, models are not interchangeable. I want to play Battlefleet Gothic, not Firestorm Armada, because I like the background, I like the aesthetic, and I like being able to tie my games in the various 40K-related systems together particularly in campaigns. That means when I play an Imperial Fleet I want it to be composed of Imperial ships, and as far as I know there's only one single solitary "not-BFG" miniature out there(ie, an OTT gothic cathedral ship) and its a Rogue Trader cruiser on Shapeways.

And the thing is, competition or not, if GW pulled the finger out and actually supported the Specialist Games(or at least farmed them out to a subsidiary or licensee), I don't think they'd have to worry about competition that much, because they'd have the same advantage they do with their core games; the captive audience who visit the stores, who in turn create a playerbase so broad and ubiquitous that people who would otherwise go to other companies will stick with the GW product because they know they can always find an opponent.

To be honest I had no idea GW was still doing some of this stuff.

 Yodhrin wrote:
And the thing is, competition or not, if GW pulled the finger out and actually supported the Specialist Games(or at least farmed them out to a subsidiary or licensee), I don't think they'd have to worry about competition that much, because they'd have the same advantage they do with their core games; the captive audience who visit the stores, who in turn create a playerbase so broad and ubiquitous that people who would otherwise go to other companies will stick with the GW product because they know they can always find an opponent.

I would (and did) argue that if GW had maintained a relative level of support for these games during and after the LOTR boom, then the competition might not even exist.

GW's retreat from these games allowed a niche for rivals to flood in, especially as 40K and WHFB continue to grow in necessary model count. Then, as the rivals (Particularly WarMachine) saw success, they began to grow and compete with the Core Games too.

GW has done some stupid things, but the self-destruction of the Specialist Games was one of their biggest Strategic blunders in the last decade.

 Easy E wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
And the thing is, competition or not, if GW pulled the finger out and actually supported the Specialist Games(or at least farmed them out to a subsidiary or licensee), I don't think they'd have to worry about competition that much, because they'd have the same advantage they do with their core games; the captive audience who visit the stores, who in turn create a playerbase so broad and ubiquitous that people who would otherwise go to other companies will stick with the GW product because they know they can always find an opponent.

I would (and did) argue that if GW had maintained a relative level of support for these games during and after the LOTR boom, then the competition might not even exist.

GW's retreat from these games allowed a niche for rivals to flood in, especially as 40K and WHFB continue to grow in necessary model count. Then, as the rivals (Particularly WarMachine) saw success, they began to grow and compete with the Core Games too.

GW has done some stupid things, but the self-destruction of the Specialist Games was one of their biggest Strategic blunders in the last decade.

Oh I completely agree, and what annoys the piss out of me is that I'm in this mostly for the IP; I like Warhammer and 40K, not for the rules, but for the aesthetics of the model lines and artwork, and for the background material. Some people might be happy going to the competition, but the competition doesn't offer what I want - sadly it seems GW don't want to offer that either.

Yodhrin wrote:

Because for some of us, models are not interchangeable. I want to play Battlefleet Gothic, not Firestorm Armada, because I like the background, I like the aesthetic, and I like being able to tie my games in the various 40K-related systems together particularly in campaigns.

And I'm sure you're not alone, however from a larger market perspective, they let that product sit so long that Firestorm Armada has become the big kahuna in that arena, such that they'd have to invest major resources to get the much more expensive (and more complicated to play) BFG to compete at this point outside of the die-hard 40k fans. Had they invested support several years ago, I'm sure Spartan Games could never have even gotten off the ground. As is, that time has come and gone sadly.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I'd say they drop some armies e.g. Sisters, BT and stuff, maybe Wood Elves or fusing them with Bretonnia.

Their core systems are there to stay. Yes, 8th made WHFB a lot less popular and played, but it still is their second core game.

is it really that much less popular. I can only gague by my local meta and Adepticon, but it seems just as popular, if not moreso, than 7th was.....

WHFB Team Tournament entries continue to go up...

I have to agree with Cincy. In our area (North Metro Atlanta), there was virtually no WHFB played during 6th and 7th. A typical "tournament" might have 6-8 people in it.

8th Edition really revitalized WHFB in our area, though there were a few people who stopped playing. Typical 2500 point tournaments have 20-30 players now, and we even have sufficient interest to have niche tournaments like a 3000 point tourney last weekend, a 1250/player randomly assigned team tourney next month, a tourney using the Swedish Composition system scheduled for June. We've had at least one WHFB tournament each month since the beginning of 2012, with the exception of December due to the holidays. During 6th and 7th, we might have 2-4 WHFB tournaments per year.

I'm guessing Warhammer World, it's a remnant from a bygone age. And what's the point of having a bar there when the core audience for their games is practically prepubescent these days?

 Vaktathi wrote:
My 2 cents.

I think this event was overdue. While sad, they've basically just been a rarely visited section of the GW website for about a decade now. They've been direct only for years and years, the last model to come out for a specialist game I think was the AdMech ships for BFG...6 years ago.

The saddest part is that, by and large, the Specialist Games were the most cleanly written, easy to play rules sets that GW ever produced.

Its Sad that if those games were suported in the same way this wouldnt be an issue. I LOVE Necromunda and mordhiem and will lament there death.

I voted Lotr/Hobbit. I never saw a single game. EVER. Even when I wasn't into warhammer and only played MtG. I would always check the models (big 40k fan ever since the first DoW) and it always was either Fantasy or 40k.

WHFB would be a suicide move. But maybe the less popular armies.

Oh, and I bet SoB isn't a popular army BECAUSE IT'S STILL IN THE FRAKING PEWTER AGE!! Give us Plastic SoB and we, the SoB fans who are actually recent 40k players, will rejoice and make an army! DAMN IT, GW!

P.S: The only good thing out of this is making me finally buy the Necromunda Arbitres Enforcers before they disappear forever. I couldn't care less about the Bloodbowl minis. I love the game but GW's miniatures are AWFUL. Thanks the God-Emperor for other producers.

P.S.S: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, Arbitres no longer available!

GW likes to simply erase what they feel is a failure vs trying to fix it
or jack up the price (as with LoTR)

Well I offered to play demo games of LoTR at my FLGS for a discount (not even free) on the starter set and was turned down. Wasnt worth it to me to be invested in the game full price.

 Gorlack wrote:

 Earthbeard wrote:
Our throats, as we sleep and dream of better days.

This genuinely made me laugh have an exalt

It's the only sensible and logical answer

 kronk wrote:
Trimming some of the less popular armies, maybe.

Doesn't look good for Sisters, right?

Well, Sisters / Witch Hunters as an army were pretty much dead anyway. It's one of the reasons I abandoned 40K--that, and the fact that to play them again, I'd need to buy an iPad, track down an inflated-price WD on eBay, or resort to piracy.

What are the chances that someone else will pick up the licenses for these games? After all, most of them have no shortage of third party miniatures out there.

Less than 1% as I'm pretty sure GW doesn't want to license them out.

LotR/Hobbit will be let go once the license expires, or when they think they can't possibly make any more money from the figures which should be sometime after the third movie is released in a couple of years.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I'm guessing Warhammer World, it's a remnant from a bygone age. And what's the point of having a bar there when the core audience for their games is practically prepubescent these days?

Woah woah woah.. lets not be too hasty there, I nip in once a year and drink a few gallon!

Seriously though, If they remove WHW I shall be even more thredders with GW than I am now, I actually enjoy walking round the place every now and then.

Honestly, I don't understand why they cut everything. Warehouse space isn't free, but I can't imagine that it's that hard for GW to make some room. I mean, if nothing else, they could just store the specialist games in the office space they used to use for designers (ba-dum-tiss.) Would it be all that insane to simply make some molds off of the old masters and switch to resin; just toss the whole line over to Forge World? I don't know. Seems like a completely brain-dead decision, but hell, I'm not in charge of a large international business. What do I know?

Saldiven wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
My 2 cents.

I think this event was overdue. While sad, they've basically just been a rarely visited section of the GW website for about a decade now. They've been direct only for years and years, the last model to come out for a specialist game I think was the AdMech ships for BFG...6 years ago.

The saddest part is that, by and large, the Specialist Games were the most cleanly written, easy to play rules sets that GW ever produced.

I did joke, in the past, that a lot of the Specialist Games had clear, concise, balanced basic games, then added an expansion with weird, crazy, broken rules.

However, that was before they got into the 'Living Rulebook' thing, which seems to have moderated this. They really were, generally, better written than core games.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I'm guessing Warhammer World, it's a remnant from a bygone age. And what's the point of having a bar there when the core audience for their games is practically prepubescent these days?

For the dads!

Won't someone think of the dads?

Next to cut is their design staff that makes the models and the rules.

This is great news, as they will be able to focus on raising prices.

Why not all of the above: GW only sells novels and sues people over its IP

 Grundz wrote:
Why not all of the above: GW only sells novels and sues people over its IP

Why waste time on selling novels?

Simply stick to sueing people alone!

That's the only thing GW seems to get right anyway now.

I said Warhammer World before, but I have changed my mind.

I think they will cut any armies that aren't Space Marine sout of 40K next.

This is great news, as they will then be adding Space Marines to WHFB!