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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Forar wrote:
My crew and I (6 players, been in for the last year and a half, 4 half were heavily into WH years ago) have had mixed reactions, from "cautiously optimistic" to "the end is nigh".

Apparently there's a lot of info floating around in podcasts (I may be showing my age here, but I kind of dislike those as a primary info source, prefer written text I can plow through in 5-15 minutes, rather than listen to 5 hours of podcasts to get the same info, oh well people are transcribing as we speak), and at the end of the month we'll all get a glut of new info and stats and some fears will be quenched while others are given full form.

I think what I'm most interested in will be the comparison between the 'beta' and what goes 'live' in August. As in, how much feedback can they take, and what changes can they make in the couple of months they'll have (at most) before the printers need to start shotgunning out giant piles of books and cards for transport in August and wider distribution shortly thereafter.

Well, the problem is, in said Podcast, the designers coyly suggest that they've already locked down 90% of the rules, and won't really take TOO much feedback from players.

More disappointingly, the really interesting asymmetrical aspect to the game, which was so narratively interesting, won't be fixed, it'll be shelved... There are only FIVE strategies now, and they're ALWAYS shared.

Also, you're forced to pick from a pool of five random schemes per game now.

I don't think there were any coy suggestions. What was said was that drastic changes to the core rules would be off the table once the rules go to the public beta. (i.e. the way soulstones work, etc). The reason for this is that it is impossible to design with a moving target in mind. Now, core rules which can be changed are clarity issues and balance issues (making certain schemes easier/harder, etc). What the playtest will focus on is model to model balance. Do you think a model costs too much/too little? Certain abilities need to be rewritten/removed? Think of a cool new ability a master should have? That's all very valid feedback, and changes will most certainly be made because of it. Frankly, if a game gets to a public beta stage with a month and a half before print, and the core mechanics are still swinging wildly, someone hasn't done their job.

The asymmetric play is not being shelved. Wyrd recognized that having two totally asymmetric strategies was impossible to balance. So, the standard encounter chart includes only shared strategies. But there will also be a story encounter section included with asymmetric strategies, with the understanding that the game is not balanced around the story encounter chart, it will provide that interesting, flavorful mechanic for those who want it.

As for the schemes, you have it basically right, but I'm not sure you made it entirely clear. There are 19 different schemes, and before the game 5 are randomly determined and from those 5, the players choose 2. In this way Malifaux still has a wide variety of interesting schemes, but randomly determining which ones will be available before the game creates more varied play. Players leave their comfort zones a bit. How often now do you see people taking hold out/bodyguard every other pick-up game? That's the sort of thing that this system will prevent.

Finally, schemes are being increased in VP value on the standard chart. This is both to make taking unannounced schemes more desirable (you hardly ever see that in competitive play) and to keep the fun, asymmetric dynamic of Malifaux in the standard encounter section. The shared strategy will force some interaction, but with the increased importance on schemes, players can still stick to their objectives and not just "kill everything" as has often been touted about Malifaux. Finally, the strategies scoring at the end of every turn instead of the end of the game greatly helps with this.

Hope that clears some things up.

If people are after more info and like myself don't listen to podcasts etc the wyrd website currently has many threads on malifaux 2.0

chaos0xomega wrote:
Some cool info here but more importantly:

Whats the story about the new puppet wars? i believe unstitched is due out this month right?

This month, yeah.

What would you like to know?

 Lalochezia wrote:
*snip*

Who are you masked man to have such knowledge of this game

 Lalochezia wrote:
As for the schemes, you have it basically right, but I'm not sure you made it entirely clear. There are 19 different schemes, and before the game 5 are randomly determined and from those 5, the players choose 2. In this way Malifaux still has a wide variety of interesting schemes, but randomly determining which ones will be available before the game creates more varied play. Players leave their comfort zones a bit. How often now do you see people taking hold out/bodyguard every other pick-up game? That's the sort of thing that this system will prevent.

Finally, schemes are being increased in VP value on the standard chart. This is both to make taking unannounced schemes more desirable (you hardly ever see that in competitive play) and to keep the fun, asymmetric dynamic of Malifaux in the standard encounter section. The shared strategy will force some interaction, but with the increased importance on schemes, players can still stick to their objectives and not just "kill everything" as has often been touted about Malifaux. Finally, the strategies scoring at the end of every turn instead of the end of the game greatly helps with this.

This sounds much better than the initial tidbits I had heard. Both the semi-random schemes (still would love master specific schemes mixed in there), and the strategies being a per turn bonus are ideas that I like conceptually. The rest (eg, increased scheme VP) seems like mostly balancing issues, so I trust those to be done well.

 Lalochezia wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Some cool info here but more importantly:

Whats the story about the new puppet wars? i believe unstitched is due out this month right?

This month, yeah.

What would you like to know?

Well, I'd like to know what sort of compatibility/update options there are for those of us who have the first edition...

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Well, I'd like to know what sort of compatibility/update options there are for those of us who have the first edition...

That was actually answered in a couple of the podcasts and videos. Basically, none. V2 is the way forward with no backwards compatibility.

So, no access to a new card/rules bundle or anything like that?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Lalochezia wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Some cool info here but more importantly:

Whats the story about the new puppet wars? i believe unstitched is due out this month right?

This month, yeah.

What would you like to know?

Well, I'd like to know what sort of compatibility/update options there are for those of us who have the first edition...

For Puppet Wars? The rules will be free online, so if you want to use your old stuff with updated rules, you can.

For Malifaux 2.0, faction decks of stat cards will be for sale.

Puppet wars. So, clarifying, there is no way to get a printed version of the new material separate of the boxed game?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Puppet wars. So, clarifying, there is no way to get a printed version of the new material separate of the boxed game?

Correct.

Oh, well. That's the first thing Wyrd's done that's really annoyed me :/

The supposed support of Puppet Wars was nearly negligible, and now second edition doesn't even update the game for players who played the first. I feel kind of like a chump for the $200+ I dropped on the game.

I also feel like it's pretty dishonest to keep stock of the first edition on the web store without any clear notice about the imminent and incompatible second release

Alright, so Eric Johns from Wyrd had a bit of a Q&A session yesterday on Twitter to alleviate some questions about 2nd ed... here is what was said to him, and how he responded:

Mark B asked: What is your favorite change in the new Malifaux?
EricJ Answered: The upgrade system. Adds so much depth to the system which allows you to tailor your crew the way you'll most enjoy playing them.

Several People Asked: What about cards?
EricJ Answered: About cards. Yes, everything will get a 2e card. Yes, you have to buy them. Yes, we are working to make that as painless for you as possible.

Alan R asked: Can we expect some new model releases at GenCon? If so, roughly how many per faction? New masters, etc...?
EricJ Answered: Yes there will be new models at GenCon... no promises about who or how many... but we're working with the goal of LOTS!

Jon B asked: Can you tell us one minion who is getting promoted to Henchman?
EricJ answered: Joss will be a new Henchman

@ForceVoid asked something (twitter isn't showing me)
EricJ answered: Included in my top 3 goals during design of 2e was to make sure the character of our characters stayed rich and flavorful.

@Aeth_1904 asked about outcasts in regards to the departure of Gremlins from the faction.
EricJ answered: Outcasts have their departing Gremlins replaced by new masters such as the promoted Von Schill, and Tara, Herald of Obliteration

Chris H asked: Will we get digital versions of the new faction decks?
EricJ answered: Our goal is to have a digital option for cards/rules...in time.

@BadMalifauxer asked: Will Marcus be more effective at his beast shenanigans?
EricJ answered: Marcus will be getting some special attention. He's always been one of my favorites!

Ryan C asked: Will the shift to upgrades mean that almost any master can be a viable starter box for new players? Dreamer for example.
EricJ answered: There will be variation in learning curves, but 2e is designed to be scalable to fit your preferences or experience level.

Kristian K asked: Will there be a collective pool for the factions to choose [upgrades] fro, or are they specific to separate models?
EricJ answered: Both

Sean S asked: I felt the terrain/LoS rules in v1 were a little fidgety. Will they be cleaned up in v2?
EricJ answered: We've put a lot of time and effort into cleaning up terrain/LoS, so I really hope it comes out working a ton better in 2e.

@Arkenfel asked about Nekima being promoted to henchman.
EricJ answered: Nekima the henchman has a good ring to it, don't you think? Regardless of that, she'll be getting some special attention.

Dave asked: can you hint on how gremlins will be expanded to full faction [status]? Ophelia to master level? New master? New Henchman?
EricJ answered: Multiple new Gremlin masters and giant piles of new gremlins, pigs, roosters, along with drink related puns and memorabilia.

I'm personally still not 100% sold on it, but I didn't think that Eric could give away the house on that little Q&A session. I'm just waiting for the public beta now... (seriously May, hurry the feth up, I'd like to try 2nd ed).

Actually, that sounds pretty good so far, along with the explanation on the strategy/schemes. My hopes are getting a bit higher.

Not very keen on the fact that I have to get the cards all over again, but it's an expense I am willing to make if the game has improved, can't be as bad as uhm, saaay, buying a new codex.

The only thing I truly do not like are the upgrades. That just sounds like a munchkin mechanism, at least, in my experience that is what they usually end up being. But the rest sounds pretty good. Guess now all I have to decide is whether I should get the 3rd book before it goes out to have the collection complete or just forget about it since it'll be not very usefull anymore in a while

 Gertjan wrote:
Actually, that sounds pretty good so far, along with the explanation on the strategy/schemes. My hopes are getting a bit higher.

Not very keen on the fact that I have to get the cards all over again, but it's an expense I am willing to make if the game has improved, can't be as bad as uhm, saaay, buying a new codex.

The only thing I truly do not like are the upgrades. That just sounds like a munchkin mechanism, at least, in my experience that is what they usually end up being. But the rest sounds pretty good. Guess now all I have to decide is whether I should get the 3rd book before it goes out to have the collection complete or just forget about it since it'll be not very usefull anymore in a while

The biggest thing with the upgrades depends on how "busy" the cards are going to be in the next edition. Let's use Pandora as an example, Pandora has lots of abilities that I use, and some that I don't. If Pandora has all of those abilities, and then upgrades let her get abilities x, y, and z, then I can see it being cumbersome, but if Pandora has fewer abilities in the new addition, and say a Neverborn upgrade lets me get Terrifying 13, another gives me Obey, and a third gives me +1wk, it would let me play Pandora how I want to play her (hopefully ).

We'll have to see of course

It sounds (from the above) like the digital versions of the new cards may not appear at launch which seems a shame for those that may not want to immediately invest in new cards

I didn't even take into consideration how it would work with the upgrades possibly being on the cards actually. I just made the assumption that they would be in the books, seeing as some of them are specific and more general upgrades. If they want to keep the cards easy to read I could well imagine those not being listed there.

I don't know, customizability around where I play usually means scraping the bottom of the barrel for power options rather than anything else really, sadly enough. That is the only reservation I have about upgrades, it could be a lot of fun, but knowing some of the people playing here it will be abused where possible :(

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:It sounds (from the above) like the digital versions of the new cards may not appear at launch which seems a shame for those that may not want to immediately invest in new cards

Yeah :-\ I'd love it if they did a WarRoom sort of app, but Wyrd probably won't do such a thing. I'd pay 60 bucks like I did with WarRoom for a Malifaux App that updates for life. Also it should be noted that Malifax 1.5 (current rules) will be tournament legal until January 2014, so you've got all of October (public release of 2nd ed), November, and December to play 1.5 in tournaments, and dabble with 2nd edition on the side.

Gertjan wrote:I didn't even take into consideration how it would work with the upgrades possibly being on the cards actually. I just made the assumption that they would be in the books, seeing as some of them are specific and more general upgrades. If they want to keep the cards easy to read I could well imagine those not being listed there.

I don't know, customizability around where I play usually means scraping the bottom of the barrel for power options rather than anything else really, sadly enough. That is the only reservation I have about upgrades, it could be a lot of fun, but knowing some of the people playing here it will be abused where possible :(

I know, I mean I'd love it if they would give us a sneak peak of a minion and show us 1st edition vs 2nd edition, and perhaps what the upgrades look like, so we could compare.

 Lalochezia wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Some cool info here but more importantly:

Whats the story about the new puppet wars? i believe unstitched is due out this month right?

This month, yeah.

What would you like to know?

What changed, whats in the box, and how long will we have to wait for the "boosters" to come out?

 SoulDrinker wrote:
I've heard from my local shop that the cards will be available through retail as faction packs/decks for anyone who was worried about that so it's all good news!!!!!

The Plastics are great - the new crews are just as good as the old ones in terms of miniature quality and I always use metal base inserts to add that bit of weight so you just can't go wrong with malifaux at the moment

Yer I heard that from my FLGS too . Could be a good thing, although I could probabily see people selling the cards they dont want on ebay which could see sales of those packs go down. Also screws up people who have one or 2 masters of each faction.

Still really looking forward to the game though Hopefully they'll buff Kirai (i find her rubbish) HAHAHAHAHA only kidding!

I'm personally not a fan of upgrade systems cause they usually allow for more dull op cheese but if we're only talking 2/3 extras per leader then perhaps we're safe!

As for the card decks, this is a massive plus to me! While I love most of the models there are a few that I'd rather proxy but haven't as I prefer to have the cards. I'm also a bit of a rules/combo nerd so having a single deck to flick through rather than 4 books will be a lot easier! So if I can buy a deck of the whole Faction then I'll be a happy bunny! (Although, this is putting me off starting my 3rd Faction just yet, until we see some hint of price for the decks!)

My guesses for "promoted" mods will be, Bete Noire, Judge, Rust Alyce and . . . . . Hooded Rider! oh, also hoping for a Molly fix!

But so far so good!

To be honest, I don't even care what models they would promote, if the new mini's of the old crews will be anything like the drawings on the first page of this thread (rasputina) I'll be blowing my budget on buying the masters I have again in plastic.

I was going to stop buying to reduce the amount of unpainted mini's but I think now I'll simply stop to be able to save up for the other crews coming out again if they will be anything like that, it's a good incentive to finally get going on a gaming board in the meantime though. I think I might actually slowly get a bit enthusiastic about this, even though there is this nagging doubt somewhere in my mind stiif abotu those upgrades.

I was really put off of starting malifaux when I saw how they handled the RPG kickstarter, though a second edition does somewhat draw me back into the 'temptation zone'. Would this mean all of the current rulebooks become invalid as anything but a source of fluff?

Correct, the current rulebooks would be invalidated much like mk1 books for warmahordes, or old editions of codices.

Malifaux needed this badly. I'm very interested.

I own something like 5 gangs, 2 of which are invincible if played right (Colette, Leviticus). Hopefully, their card and rule changes will make the game much less rock-paper-scissorsy at the high end with specific gangs.

All i hope for is that faction decks are released. Its all very well being told painless as possible but does that mean for everyone or not. Currently to get replacement cards they expect extortionate shipping so unless they do faction decks its likely this will just go away

Motograter wrote:
All i hope for is that faction decks are released. Its all very well being told painless as possible but does that mean for everyone or not. Currently to get replacement cards they expect extortionate shipping so unless they do faction decks its likely this will just go away

As painless as possible: Faction decks that can be written on with wet/dry erase markers that can easily be bought through a UK/EU/ROW distro

 Killionaire wrote:
Malifaux needed this badly. I'm very interested.

I own something like 5 gangs, 2 of which are invincible if played right (Colette, Leviticus). Hopefully, their card and rule changes will make the game much less rock-paper-scissorsy at the high end with specific gangs.

If you think those crews are unbeatable, you're playing with the wrong gamers. ;-) Levi, for example, requires a tremendous coordination, and while you're doing your waif immortality tricks, you're likely not scoring VP. At my club, Levi players regularly get rolled. :-p

That said, there are definitely "tiers" of power to the Masters, but I feel like the game could have been fixed in several ways that didn't involved such sweeping changes.... especially hit-or-miss changes like war-gear which has ruined as many game's balance as it has helped.

Also, for a game looking to improve accessibility, clarity, etc... adding a bunch of pre-match paper-work to loading our crew just sounds annoying.

I guess this means Lucas McCabe is a prototype for 2.0, in a sense, what with having to load out him, and wastrels.... expanding this to every unit in the game? Eh.... we'll see.

Not my blog, but I found this nice compilation/summary of information presented thus far in the various podcasts:
http://hearusgeek.blogspot.com/2013/04/malifaux-20-confirmed.html

The original minion versions of Misaki and Hamelin will no longer be playable in M2E due to their promotions to Masters. The models will be playable as the masters, and Justin has said that those are the only "models" that won't be getting rules upgrades. Insignificant models are now referred to as Peons. Existing Henchmen will be upgraded to Masters, characters like the Judge will now be labeled as Henchmen. The various ranks allow certain numbers of upgrades, negating my previous guess about being master-specific.

Ca is going to be spell-specific rather than model-specific, to allow models to be better at some spells than others without needing a wall of text on the card. Casting duels now work the same way as normal combat duels. There's still a CC target number, but casting is an opposed duel where the defender flips at the same time.

It sounds like the upgrade mechanic is going to be focused on Masters, allowing you to customize a bit so a mirror match isn't necessarily identical...

Pre-measuring will be allowed.

Masters have 3 AP across the board now. Sounds like rules like Melee Expert are going to apply more to minions now.

Red Joker now does Severe+Weak rather than Severe+flip. Flipping the Red Joker now prevents the opponent from cheating.

Timing of conditions are now always spelled out instead of defaulting to the Resolve Effects step.

Soulstones are now spent before a duel to add a + to the flip; if used defensively they also add a - to the damage flip. You can soulstone before a flip to add a suit. Soulstones can also be spent to cycle two cards after drawing your hand at the start of the turn.

50 SS games are recommended. Most model costs will likely go up a bit to allow for more variance in cost-to-power ratios. Starter boxes may add up to 30 on average rather than 25...

Brawls sound like they'll be relegated to story encounters now.

Avatars restricted to games of 40ss or higher. Avatars now have different costs rather than a flat 2ss.

Manifesting now works the same way across the board: When the master activates, you flip a card (cheatable). That card goes in a Manifest Stack. Each avatar has a Manifest cost (e.g. 30), and when the total of the stack hits that number, you manifest. When the avatar takes damage, you discard a card fro mthe stack, and when the stack hits 0, the avatar turns back into the regular master. Manifest rules still subject to change.

Strategies now work as in GG2013, and schemes can be worth up to 4 VP each.

Strategies are now shared across the board, schemes are now more important in order to maintain the asymmetric gameplay dynamic. Schemes can now be worth more unannounced this way. Old strategies are likely to work into story encounters rather than the core list now. 19 schemes, flip to create a pool of 5 schemes for both players to pick from. Keeps players from camping the same schemes without forcing "unique schemes". Any model that can Interact can do that to drop a Scheme marker. Accomplishing Schemes rely on the markers, which allow for bluffing with unannounced schemes. Sounds like the objective-based gameplay is maintained through the schemes more than the strats.

Cool, thanks for the re-post... some cool changes, though I'm not sure variable casting scores fits with the streamlining...