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Thanks for that post, most of that sounds pretty good. Especially the average SS going up to better balance ss costs of models. Vert simple yet effective way of balancing games out a bit. (Personally to me that was always the biggest blunder with 3rd 40k, reducing points cost).

Not sure I like the idea of adding SS's before flipping, makes it a bit more random and I kind of liked the calculating nature of the game with cheating/ss. But, who knows, might work out just fine, it really is something one has to play in ordre to feel how it works properly.

Upgrading, nope, still sounds like a bad idea. Avatars, well, again, have to see how it plays during a game but sounds pretty good so far. Changes on the red joker mechanism are quite good imho.

Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.

Also, they already had it where masters could be better at some spells than others. It was the required total to cast it...

Is there even a point to the public playtest? If the books are being released at Gen Con in August, they're already at the printers

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.

Also, they already had it where masters could be better at some spells than others. It was the required total to cast it...

Is there even a point to the public playtest? If the books are being released at Gen Con in August, they're already at the printers

Public playtest is probably for smoothing out things, and seeing how the game runs on a wide level...

Avatar manifestation makes more sense now, as long as they also change the way the manifest clock works....

And I was a head of the curve, for the longest time I thought the Judge was a Henchman (before I really knew the rules )... Guess who's right now

Also kind of sad that my Lady J/Lucious crew isn't as viable anymore :(

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.

Also, they already had it where masters could be better at some spells than others. It was the required total to cast it...

Is there even a point to the public playtest? If the books are being released at Gen Con in August, they're already at the printers

1: not sure on this, definitely loosing character, but you could end up with a ton of objectives to keep track of, and I'm kind of feeling like manifest requirements were too much. Maybe if they just had one instead of two that might have been a good middle ground...

Re: casting, I believe what this represents is something like how Rotten Belles currently have special rules for casting one of their spells. Since how spells work is

attacker duels for target number --> defender duels vs. attacker's set number

changing the starting point can have things where it's easy to succeed and difficult to counter or difficult to succeed and easy to counter

re: printing time and play testing- good point, that will be cutting it pretty close.

 Alfndrate wrote:

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.

Also, they already had it where masters could be better at some spells than others. It was the required total to cast it...

Is there even a point to the public playtest? If the books are being released at Gen Con in August, they're already at the printers

Public playtest is probably for smoothing out things, and seeing how the game runs on a wide level...

Gen Con is August 15th, 2.5 months from the start of the public playtest. Its my understanding that the books are going tio be on sale at Gen Con (please correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, the rules are almost assuredly already at the printer, and the books will be sitting in a warehouse by the time any meaningful public playtest feedback could possibly be compiled and acted upon. Unless they're just going to dump all the printed books, I dont see how the playtest has a chance to smooth anything out.

Avatar manifestation makes more sense now, as long as they also change the way the manifest clock works....

I dont think it necessarily makes mroe sense. Just flipping to reach 30 faster might be simpler (but then so is chucking a fistful of d6's and counting all your 4+'s), but what does that even represent? It makes sense from a thematic perspective that the avatar of glottony and the avatar of insanity and the avatar of justice manifest differently. Its taking a flavorful mechanic and jettisoning it for the equivalent of "War". They could tighten the rules up, sure. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and replacing it with non delicious baby flavored tap water is pretty dull in comparison.

And I was a head of the curve, for the longest time I thought the Judge was a Henchman (before I really knew the rules )... Guess who's right now

Also kind of sad that my Lady J/Lucious crew isn't as viable anymore :(

2 master campaign maybe?

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Ugh, not a fan of avatar manifestation. The old way had flavor, this is just a limit break.

The old version was definitely more flavorful - but unfortunately also hard to balance. Some conditions were trivial, and could be automatically accomplished by turn 2. Others required a ton of luck, or really specific circumstances, or factors beyond a player's control.

One of Malifaux's biggest strengths was definitely how much flavor went into every single card and ability on that card. But at the same time, having so many abilities and so much to keep track of could get awfully tricky. I can't tell you how many times I forgot about some minor ability a model might have! I wouldn't be surprised if part of the goal of the new edition is to try and find a better balance between flavor and function - see if they can make things a bit less fiddly, and a bit easier to keep track of, while still keeping their flavor and fun.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Gen Con is August 15th, 2.5 months from the start of the public playtest. Its my understanding that the books are going tio be on sale at Gen Con (please correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, the rules are almost assuredly already at the printer, and the books will be sitting in a warehouse by the time any meaningful public playtest feedback could possibly be compiled and acted upon. Unless they're just going to dump all the printed books, I dont see how the playtest has a chance to smooth anything out.

As someone that was involved in the Storm of Shadows playtest, I can assure you I was still testing models into late June and into early July for a book that was expected to be released at GenCon, not available for pre-release at GenCon...

You may have been testing, but did any feedback during that time actually make it into the book? Or was it just reaffirming/triple checking that nothing absolutely broken slipped through the cracks?

Obviously the August demands are going to be much smaller than a world wide release, but even hundreds of books take time to print and ship.

 Forar wrote:
You may have been testing, but did any feedback during that time actually make it into the book? Or was it just reaffirming/triple checking that nothing absolutely broken slipped through the cracks?

Obviously the August demands are going to be much smaller than a world wide release, but even hundreds of books take time to print and ship.

Lots of feedback went was taken into consideration... I no longer have access to that forum so I can't give solid proof on anything beyond the 1 mechanic I remember testing a lot...

Forar, PM incoming.

Books go to print mid July and they get there at Gen Con. Air shipping is involved, but it happens.

There really isn't any point in running a playtest for a game that has already gone off to print. At that point all we would be doing is giving the game away for free. Which, I guess in the grand scheme, there are worse suspicions for people to have.

 Alfndrate wrote:

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Gen Con is August 15th, 2.5 months from the start of the public playtest. Its my understanding that the books are going tio be on sale at Gen Con (please correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, the rules are almost assuredly already at the printer, and the books will be sitting in a warehouse by the time any meaningful public playtest feedback could possibly be compiled and acted upon. Unless they're just going to dump all the printed books, I dont see how the playtest has a chance to smooth anything out.

As someone that was involved in the Storm of Shadows playtest, I can assure you I was still testing models into late June and into early July for a book that was expected to be released at GenCon, not available for pre-release at GenCon...

Where are Wyrd's books and cards printed? Unless its in house, those books were 99.99% likely to have been printed by that point. Even in house, they'd be drying ink with a hairdryer before gen con lol.

I've got no problems with a pre-release rules teaser to drive interest, but they shoudln't call it a playtest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forar wrote:
You may have been testing, but did any feedback during that time actually make it into the book? Or was it just reaffirming/triple checking that nothing absolutely broken slipped through the cracks?

Obviously the August demands are going to be much smaller than a world wide release, but even hundreds of books take time to print and ship.

The wide release is in/before October. The books that are going to be released by October are going to be from the same print run as the ones available at the Gen Con release. It takes time to go from Wyrd's warehouses to distributors to retail. It doesnt make sense to do a small print run, then a larger one a few weeks later, since you're losing bulk job discount pricing.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Gen Con is August 15th, 2.5 months from the start of the public playtest. Its my understanding that the books are going tio be on sale at Gen Con (please correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, the rules are almost assuredly already at the printer, and the books will be sitting in a warehouse by the time any meaningful public playtest feedback could possibly be compiled and acted upon. Unless they're just going to dump all the printed books, I dont see how the playtest has a chance to smooth anything out.

As someone that was involved in the Storm of Shadows playtest, I can assure you I was still testing models into late June and into early July for a book that was expected to be released at GenCon, not available for pre-release at GenCon...

Where are Wyrd's books and cards printed? Unless its in house, those books were 99.99% likely to have been printed by that point. Even in house, they'd be drying ink with a hairdryer before gen con lol.

I've got no problems with a pre-release rules teaser to drive interest, but they shoudln't call it a playtest.

See Lalo's post just above yours, he answers it pretty well... And knows far better than I do.


Also I'm expecting a few Bayou Gremlins waiting outside my house when I get home based on my statements in this thread, and his presence here now. Hopefully the Lalochezia, Avatar of Baby Gremlins will hit his new manifest counter thing-y and I shall be spared his wrath.

 Lalochezia wrote:
Books go to print mid July and they get there at Gen Con. Air shipping is involved, but it happens.

There really isn't any point in running a playtest for a game that has already gone off to print. At that point all we would be doing is giving the game away for free. Which, I guess in the grand scheme, there are worse suspicions for people to have.[/quote

Dang, that is some impressively fast TAT on the printers! Good to know feedback isnt entirely pointless.

 Alfndrate wrote:

Bossk_Hogg wrote:


Also kind of sad that my Lady J/Lucious crew isn't as viable anymore :(

A henchman once gave me a piece of advice... run Lucius as as Lady J Henchman, but build a crew as if he was Master. I haven't lost a game since. :-p My Ortegas were tough, but Lucius, Lady J, Guild-Riflemen, a Drill Sargeant.... are just silly. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

Also kind of sad that my Lady J/Lucious crew isn't as viable anymore :(

A henchman once gave me a piece of advice... run Lucius as as Lady J Henchman, but build a crew as if he was Master. I haven't lost a game since. :-p My Ortegas were tough, but Lucius, Lady J, Guild-Riflemen, a Drill Sargeant.... are just silly. :-p

Oh I know, my statement of Lady J/Lucius crew not being as viable is because Lu is being upgraded to a Master in 2nd edition. There was a quote on the previous page (near the bottom) that said all current henchmen are being upgrade to Masters, Minion Hamelin and Minion Misaki are also being removed due to their master versions sticking around.

New illustration of Lady Justice's group (now with more Ghost Rider):

Assuming:
Scales of Justice, Judge, (Ghost Rider) Death Marshal x3, (Stripperheel Ninja) Lady Justice

And for those that missed it, Rasputina's crew:

The current Death Marshalls are still serviceable, although I will confess I might want that new Lady J.

As someone who has spent far too much time working on Death Marshals, I'm glad to see them go. Rarely been so frustrated with a single group of miniatures. Maybe it's me, maybe I got a bad cast, but they were awful.

The new artwork is intense. This might be enough to rekindle my interest in the system.

If those drawings are going to be the new old boxed sets then it's going to be an expensive year for me I think as those look great. I am glad I managed to hold back from getting the Lady J crew untill I got my missT in as those look great (and better yet, plastic).

I am going to be so broke.... :(

Just thought I'd give a bit of an update.

Public Beta test rules go live sometime today. EricJ on twitter mentioned they would be sometime midday today. So probably noon his time (PDT), so that'd be what? GMT-8? I'll post the link to where people can grab the beta rules when they're released. In the mean time, here are some new art pieces

Also I've been meaning to grab these updates from EricJ's twitter account, but have only just done so today.
(Stripper Heel) Lady Justice and Crew:


Marcus and Crew:


Bayou Gremlins "Symbol"?

 Guildsman wrote:
As someone who has spent far too much time working on Death Marshals, I'm glad to see them go. Rarely been so frustrated with a single group of miniatures. Maybe it's me, maybe I got a bad cast, but they were awful.

I'm not sure if Jazz hands McGhostrider is a good direction for them to go though. Definite step backwards in design IMO. The scales and exorcist look improved. Lady J looks stupid and cheesecake as always. She loses points for the dumbass gravity defying hair, gets some back for the more dynamic pose, and we'll call it a draw on retaining the stripper outfit and heels.

Raputina's crew looks utterly awesome, as does Marcus' from what I can tell. Huge improvement on the razorspine. I'd actually use it over a Hordes Naga.

Out of the death marshal models though, I think that Jazz Hands is the worst in the bunch . But that's why we have old sculpts, and Miss Terious

 Alfndrate wrote:
Out of the death marshal models though, I think that Jazz Hands is the worst in the bunch . But that's why we have old sculpts, and Miss Terious

True. I've got my nightmare editions too. And I guess head swaps arent terrible in platic. Still they're the weakest link for me.

Speaking of Miss Terious, is that still available?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Speaking of Miss Terious, is that still available?

Nope, she was the 2012 "convention" exclusive much like Miss Demeanor and Miss Pack. There is also the gremlinette, but she's not one of the "Misses"

Different species don't deter me.

Whoa....so they're doing completely new plastic sets for all the original dudes. Nice.

There goes around $150 from me.

Marcus looks pretty great...DARN :( I may have to buy his crew again.

Mathieu Raymond wrote:Different species don't deter me.

I'm telling your fiancee

cincydooley wrote:Whoa....so they're doing completely new plastic sets for all the original dudes. Nice.

There goes around $150 from me.

Every current master (probably with the exception of the book 4 stuff), is getting resculpted I believe. This also includes current Henchmen who are getting the bump to masters. Wait... new Dreamer and Lord Chompy Bits?! FETH YEAH (Just let me have this moment)

bbb wrote:Marcus looks pretty great...DARN :( I may have to buy his crew again.

Hopefully his rules don't suck this edition. I had a guy look at me like I kicked his puppy when I informed him that he couldn't cast feral and Wild Heart in the same turn (due to them both being (0) action - casts)...