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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 09:42:02
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Basically, in the wake of the GFC the world of economics split in to two schools. One school that can more or less be called the Keynesians, who said that what was needed now was direct stimulus into the economy, because with monetary policy unable to address the imbalance of savings and investment, you needed government to directly expand total demand by ramping up its own spending and maintain growth. The other side of the debate can more or less be called the Austerians, who in a variety ways came to argue that far from helping the problem, expanding deficits would only make the problem worse - they argued high government debts would hurt investor confidence and drive up interest and inflation rates. The way to maintain growth was to slash government debt. In general the Keynesians pointed to the Great Depression (and to Japan as an example of the failure of monetary policy alone during a liquidity crisis), while the Austerians pointed to the stagflation of the 70s and quite specifically to two studies produced in the last few years. The first study, by Alesina and Ardagna argued that government spending cuts actually led to growth, because it improved confidence. The IMF studied their results, and found their work to be absolute nonsense - Alesina and Ardagna used a crude statistical technique to measure 'austerity' - in looking at economies across the world at different times they basically said any time where the deficit declined significantly was austerity. What they were doing in effect was picking up every period where a good economic result (such as a stock market boom or the development of new industry) would improve the government's bottom line, and then concluding that must be austerity, and therefore that 'austerity' caused the original positive result. When the government bottom line improves whenever there is good growth, it's no wonder they produced the results they did. The IMF undertook a more substantial effort on the same question, actually looking at the policies put in place by government to determine if any attempt at austerity was taking place and checking that against growth... they found there was no relationship between austerity and higher economic growth at all. The second study, by Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff, argued that countries that have accumulated significant amounts of government debt have had it impact their economic growth considerably. In fact, they found an extremely strong tipping point, that when government debt reached 90% of GDP then growth dropped by 1%. It was a huge result, made massive waves through economic circles and into policy, being cited by political parties touting austerity all over the world. Until, that is, a year or so after they released the study they agreed to hand their workings over to their peers. Then it was found their work was basically a shambles. For some reason or another they'd simply excluded a whole range of figures (New Zealand in the post war period held debt above 90% for about eight years, but they only included one year of debt)... and what's more, in the column determining the growth rate for countries with debt in excess of 90%, they'd messed up the sum column in their excel spreadsheet. Correcting for those errors made the 90% drop off disappear completely. A goddamn fething excel table error. Seriously. That's the study that everyone up to an including Paul Ryan was claiming was evidence of the need for austerity. And while the intellectual cornerstones of austerity were disappearing, in the real world the austerians looked even worse. The predictions made by the Austerians about US policy on stimulus and money printing were shown to not just be wrong, but wildly wrong. Far from running from US debt as the country ran high deficits, US bonds got cheaper as it remained the safest place to put your money. And despite claims of high infaltion, and even hyperinflation, inflation has remained very low, in fact even now the biggest problem facing the Fed is deflation. And then you compare that to Europe, where German led austerity has dominated policy. In the periphery, where austerity is most harsh, there are unemployment rates in excess of 20%+. In Great Britain we might see the world's first triple dip recession. This idea that tighter government budgets would see a rapid return of confidence and investment and lead to higher growth has been shown to be, frankly, complete and utter bs. So, in the wake of all this, after seeing what is basically the complete collapse of an intellectual movement, do you think there's any chance that the politicians who've embraced austerity will back. Any chance that Paul Ryan or David Cameron will come out and say "Sorry about all that, we read far too much in to a pair of studies that hadn't been properly vetted, and that contradicted a lot of other works. I mean, the mistake in one study was picked up by the girlfriend of an economics grad student, so don't you know I feel embarressed now. But anyhow, it's clear now that the immediate, pressing economic issues of the country won't be solved by immediate austerity measures, so we're changing policy entirely." No, me neither. *Which was actually not a failure of Keynesian stimulus, but the failure of monetary policy to control unemployment and inflation simultaneously. But for people who oppose Keynesian policy, anything to do with poor government policy will do.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/05/01 09:46:44
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 12:33:15
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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Based on the weakening protests against Austerity in Greece, I think it is in Europe to stay.
Austerity has weathered the political storm of the masses, so now the elites will feel comfortable continuing the process.
Of course, after the German elections in September, all bets are off.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 12:54:57
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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I can't believe more hay hasn't been made of the crappiness of those studies, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Austerity is attractive to the rich and powerful because it means they don't have to put anything into society.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 16:07:40
Subject: Re:So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Interesting read...
But, what "austerity", if anything has the US done? Aren't we still in a derivative "Keynesians" mode?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 16:11:20
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 16:15:49
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
I'll let Seb add his piece when he's back online, but relative to Europe, US is doing pretty good....
Is that the point?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 16:34:35
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Maybe, don't know. Does he usually have a point?
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 20:02:49
Subject: Re:So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Fixture of Dakka
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GOVERNMENT asuterity - that is, government cuts in spending - in and of itself, does't seem to cause much of a change in economic proseperity for the nation.
CORPORATE austerity - that is, corporate cuts in spending - DOES seem to be having a major effect on economic prosperity of the nation... for the worse. And right now America has been suffering from decades of it...
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CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 20:30:27
Subject: Re:So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Vulcan wrote:GOVERNMENT asuterity - that is, government cuts in spending - in and of itself, does't seem to cause much of a change in economic proseperity for the nation.
CORPORATE austerity - that is, corporate cuts in spending - DOES seem to be having a major effect on economic prosperity of the nation... for the worse. And right now America has been suffering from decades of it...
The Corporate austerity thing the one I've harped on about for years. Lets use a pretend company called "ACME" as an example. ACME is aiming for profits of £200 million (after tax), but it only makes £140 million (after tax). This is still a huge profit, but the board has a panic attack and a money saving plan is brought out. ACME now starts shutting branches and laying off staff to make cutbacks. All this so the share holders don't panic and sell up. This means hundreds if not thousands of people are now without jobs. These people then have to cut back on their spending.
Now you times this by every other ACME out there doing the same thing and a severe recession happens. Don't forget these "ACMES" aren't in the red, it's just that their profit margin isn't as high as they wanted. So wouldn't the sensible thing to do is ride the recession out? Obviously have a look at your costs and try and make some savings, but keep people in jobs. This way the recession is shallower and shorter. Or is that too sensible?
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Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/01 23:54:46
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Easy E wrote:Based on the weakening protests against Austerity in Greece, I think it is in Europe to stay.
Austerity has weathered the political storm of the masses, so now the elites will feel comfortable continuing the process.
As long as 'can we outlast the political reaction?' is the primary question, rather than 'does this do any of the stuff we thought it would?'
I'm not disagreeing with you, because it really does look like the former question is a bigger deal than the latter. I just think it's worth pointing out that we are embracing a policy that's intellectually bankrupt and has completely failed in its predictions. Automatically Appended Next Post: whembly wrote:Interesting read...
But, what "austerity", if anything has the US done? Aren't we still in a derivative "Keynesians" mode?
The US had the stimulus and all that, but then the European core had stimulus bills as well.
It's what has come after that's driven the sluggish recovery. While both the US and Europe have cut government spending post GFC, in Europe the measures have been much harsher. As predicted by the Keynesians this has crippled the recovery. Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Actually, once you account for the automatic stabilizers, spending in the US has declined notably. And third corresponds directly to the sluggish US recovery.
Don't believe me? I can give you the graphs to prove it.
Don't care and just want to keep believing what you want believe? Well I can't help you there. Automatically Appended Next Post: Vulcan wrote:GOVERNMENT asuterity - that is, government cuts in spending - in and of itself, does't seem to cause much of a change in economic proseperity for the nation.
Completely and utterly wrong. You can't just make gak up as you please. Seriously, this is an actual, real world discipline we're talking about here. Either read about and learn, or don't, but don't think you can just invent stuff that sounds great in your head.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/05/02 00:07:22
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/02 00:14:41
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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sebster wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Actually, once you account for the automatic stabilizers, spending in the US has declined notably. And third corresponds directly to the sluggish US recovery.
Don't believe me? I can give you the graphs to prove it.
If you have time, I'd be interested in looking at those graphs...
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/02 00:20:21
Subject: Re:So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Wolfstan wrote:
Now you times this by every other ACME out there doing the same thing and a severe recession happens. Don't forget these "ACMES" aren't in the red, it's just that their profit margin isn't as high as they wanted. So wouldn't the sensible thing to do is ride the recession out? Obviously have a look at your costs and try and make some savings, but keep people in jobs. This way the recession is shallower and shorter. Or is that too sensible? 
No, because the actions of one company doesnt define the actions of the others. So one company acts as you suggest and accepts lower profits while keeping full operations, and for that the shareholders get less return without meaningfully impacting overall economic activity. It'sccalled tragedy of the commons, and explains how in some circumstances everyone acting in their own self interest can in aggregate produce a result that is sub-optimal for the whole.
The answer to this issue, simply put, isn't to just wish it away by asserting companies should just stop being self-interested actors. The answer is to either accept it, or to look to actors who have the scale and motivation to act to the economy as a whole - government.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/02 01:43:38
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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whembly wrote: sebster wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Actually, once you account for the automatic stabilizers, spending in the US has declined notably. And third corresponds directly to the sluggish US recovery.
Don't believe me? I can give you the graphs to prove it.
If you have time, I'd be interested in looking at those graphs...
No. on absulute dollars the government spending is still growing. Don't get cute.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/02 02:38:27
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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whembly wrote:If you have time, I'd be interested in looking at those graphs...
Here you go, government spending as a % of full employment GDP;
The cuts made through various deals in the last few years have dragged spending back under Reagan era levels. Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote:No. on absulute dollars the government spending is still growing. Don't get cute.
Absolute dollars is a nonsense gobbledigook figure. Absolute complete lunacy. I mean, imagine trying to have a conversation with someone who says 'we pay too much in senior executive salaries'. You ask for evidence and he says 'today we pay the executives of our major companies $600 billion annually, and in 1930 we only paid them $300 million'*. You try to point out that in that time the economy has grown through greater population and through increases in productivity, and also through inflation, and so just comparing straight dollar values produces nonsense. The only way to measure how much we're paying corporate executives is as a fraction of the overall economy.
But then, you already know what I just explained to you. You have the brains to know how to type letters on a keyboard to form words and therefore ideas, so you're smart enough to know that what you're claiming above is utter tosh. So it's becomes pretty clear it's just an effort to keep believing what you'd like to believe is true.
*Numbers are made up.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 02:47:44
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 06:57:19
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Austerlity sucks! It could finally leads to an outright political upheavals. let's check whether did the following the results of 'austerlity' responses to the Great Depression of November 1929?
1. Rise of Fascism in Italy, and Germany
2. Revolution of 1932 in Siam. before that (it is said that) the cause of the Revolution was due to the austerlity, since the depression hit Siam. the King Prajadhipok laid off a significant numbers of bureaucrats/public servants and cut the salaries of any who wasn't laid off. causing widespread protests in Bangkok . the protest part was not written in Thai history books but the austerlity policy did indeed shown up in the same book. the missing parts of history was unearthed in the great protests of 2010.. ones that ended in massacre.
Actually i'm favoring Keynes. Also E.U. is actually suffering 'structural failures'. the E.U. government were actually less powerful than the Federal Government of the United States of America. so any solutions to this problem is expected to not being so effective. then again. went back to the 30s and see what happened in the US, and the Europe, see who came back to its own feet first. and who completely swollen by the machinations of the crises.
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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408342.page |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 08:00:47
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Austerity isn't connected to the Austrian school is it?
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 08:06:04
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
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Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Wow, it's like you're building a massive trolling robot in your basement and it's ready to come online. I know you know a thing or two about economics and finance, and as such there is no way I can possibly believe you are being serious with this.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 08:35:48
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Fixture of Dakka
Kamloops, BC
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azazel the cat wrote:Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Wow, it's like you're building a massive trolling robot in your basement and it's ready to come online. I know you know a thing or two about economics and finance, and as such there is no way I can possibly believe you are being serious with this.
I don't think it's trolling as I don't think there's any intention to inflame, sounds more like he's misinformed. People seem to want to call anyone they disagree with a "troll" these days what ever happened to being plain ignorant, having a valid but different view or being a contrarian?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 08:36:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 08:46:44
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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To specifically make the point that 'absolute dollars' increasing means that there's not austerity/cutting being made is intellectuality dishonest. No one can actually believe that unless they have no grasp of inflation at all. In order for government spending to remain constant the absolute amount has to increase in line with inflation. That fact that he specifically said 'absolute dollar' spending suggests he does know what he's talking about but is choosing to be mischievous.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 08:48:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 08:58:55
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Fixture of Dakka
Kamloops, BC
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Howard A Treesong wrote:To specifically make the point that 'absolute dollars' increasing means that there's not austerity/cutting being made is intellectuality dishonest. No one can actually believe that unless they have no grasp of inflation at all. In order for government spending to remain constant the absolute amount has to increase in line with inflation.
That fact that he specifically said 'absolute dollar' spending suggests he does know what he's talking about but is choosing to be mischievous.
OK, that makes more sense although I pretty much know nothing about economics other than really basic stuff like supply and demand so that might be clouding my judgement.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 10:52:58
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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azazel the cat wrote:Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Wow, it's like you're building a massive trolling robot in your basement and it's ready to come online. I know you know a thing or two about economics and finance, and as such there is no way I can possibly believe you are being serious with this.
Its like you don't understand simple math. Our govenrment is spending more this year than last year. There's no austerity here. Unless you're using "New Math."
Oh heavens to Betsy. To have austerity you have to actually reduce spending at least a smidge. Automatically Appended Next Post: Howard A Treesong wrote:To specifically make the point that 'absolute dollars' increasing means that there's not austerity/cutting being made is intellectuality dishonest. No one can actually believe that unless they have no grasp of inflation at all. In order for government spending to remain constant the absolute amount has to increase in line with inflation.
That fact that he specifically said 'absolute dollar' spending suggests he does know what he's talking about but is choosing to be mischievous.
No. Only in new math land is there austerity when a government is spending more this year than last year. There have been no cuts, only reductions in growth.
I'm not talking about Europe. My point is only about the budget of the USA.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 10:58:02
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 11:01:06
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Ian Pickstock
Nottingham
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Frazzled wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Wow, it's like you're building a massive trolling robot in your basement and it's ready to come online. I know you know a thing or two about economics and finance, and as such there is no way I can possibly believe you are being serious with this.
Its like you don't understand simple math. Our govenrment is spending more this year than last year. There's no austerity here. Unless you're using "New Math."
Oh heavens to Betsy. To have austerity you have to actually reduce spending at least a smidge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Howard A Treesong wrote:To specifically make the point that 'absolute dollars' increasing means that there's not austerity/cutting being made is intellectuality dishonest. No one can actually believe that unless they have no grasp of inflation at all. In order for government spending to remain constant the absolute amount has to increase in line with inflation.
That fact that he specifically said 'absolute dollar' spending suggests he does know what he's talking about but is choosing to be mischievous.
No. Only in new math land is there austerity when a government is spending more this year than last year. There have been no cuts, only reductions in growth.
I'm not talking about Europe. My point is only about the budget of the USA.
A quick google search suggests that this is untrue. What's your source for claiming that the US is spending more this year than next year?
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Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.
Na-na-na-naaaaa.
Hey Jude. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 11:35:50
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Sort of, but not formally. Both are basically motivated by basic 'boo government' ideology. Though to be fair to the austerity movement they do have a long term point that governments would do well to reduce debt. It's just that right now, with private demand so short of what's needed for full employment it is a terrible idea. And all the talk about confidence fairies and nonsense inflation predictions doesn't change any of that.
On the other hand, the Austrians lost their debate in the last economic meltdown, and have existed since on bitterness and cheap argunents nafe to non-economists. Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote:
Its like you don't understand simple math. Our govenrment is spending more this year than last year.
No. The point is that 'this number is smaller than that number' has its limitations, and when dealing with an economy that is growing through inflation, population and maybe also productivity then that's a complete nonsense. And you know it is, because you simply cannot be that stupid.
My point is only about the budget of the USA.
And your point is contrived such that it's nonsense. You don't measure in absolute dollars, never have never will.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 11:45:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 12:11:31
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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2012: 3.729 2013: 3.803 2014: no official budget has been approved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_federal_budget
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 12:13:56
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 18:31:06
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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You have to remember Sebs, Austerity can not fail, it can only BE failed.
Or, if Austerity isn't working, it's because we aren't doing ENOUGH of it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 18:31:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 19:11:45
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
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Cheesecat wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Wow, it's like you're building a massive trolling robot in your basement and it's ready to come online. I know you know a thing or two about economics and finance, and as such there is no way I can possibly believe you are being serious with this.
I don't think it's trolling as I don't think there's any intention to inflame, sounds more like he's misinformed. People seem to want to call anyone they disagree with a "troll" these days what ever happened to being plain ignorant, having a valid but different view or being a contrarian?
I think you'll find that I'm not one to lightly cry "troll", Cheese.
Just to be clear, I happen to believe that when it comes to economics and finance, Frazzled ought to be one of the more knowledgeable posters here, given his demonstrated knowledge of several finance elements in the past, and possibly even related to his employment. As such, I do not possess the naivete to assume stupidity in his case, therefore I must attribute malice.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 19:15:52
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Fixture of Dakka
Kamloops, BC
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azazel the cat wrote:Cheesecat wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Wow, it's like you're building a massive trolling robot in your basement and it's ready to come online. I know you know a thing or two about economics and finance, and as such there is no way I can possibly believe you are being serious with this.
I don't think it's trolling as I don't think there's any intention to inflame, sounds more like he's misinformed. People seem to want to call anyone they disagree with a "troll" these days what ever happened to being plain ignorant, having a valid but different view or being a contrarian?
I think you'll find that I'm not one to lightly cry "troll", Cheese.
Just to be clear, I happen to believe that when it comes to economics and finance, Frazzled ought to be one of the more knowledgeable posters here, given his demonstrated knowledge of several finance elements in the past, and possibly even related to his employment. As such, I do not possess the naivete to assume stupidity in his case, therefore I must attribute malice. 
Yeah Howard said something similar so calling him out for trolling might actually be correct.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 19:21:57
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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azazel the cat wrote:Cheesecat wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Wow, it's like you're building a massive trolling robot in your basement and it's ready to come online. I know you know a thing or two about economics and finance, and as such there is no way I can possibly believe you are being serious with this.
I don't think it's trolling as I don't think there's any intention to inflame, sounds more like he's misinformed. People seem to want to call anyone they disagree with a "troll" these days what ever happened to being plain ignorant, having a valid but different view or being a contrarian?
I think you'll find that I'm not one to lightly cry "troll", Cheese.
Just to be clear, I happen to believe that when it comes to economics and finance, Frazzled ought to be one of the more knowledgeable posters here, given his demonstrated knowledge of several finance elements in the past, and possibly even related to his employment. As such, I do not possess the naivete to assume stupidity in his case, therefore I must attribute malice. 
He is somewaht more knowledgeable. Frazzled is also right. If your budget is increasing, not decreasing, and your budget is monstrously bloated now, then austerity be a thing not seen. I don't know about most of Europe's and again, not speaking about the EU. nor am I saying if we need to reduce the budget. I'm sayign the US budget is not in a period of austerity. Automatically Appended Next Post: Cheesecat wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Cheesecat wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Frazzled wrote:We'll spend more this year than last year, so nope, no government austerity here.
Wow, it's like you're building a massive trolling robot in your basement and it's ready to come online. I know you know a thing or two about economics and finance, and as such there is no way I can possibly believe you are being serious with this.
I don't think it's trolling as I don't think there's any intention to inflame, sounds more like he's misinformed. People seem to want to call anyone they disagree with a "troll" these days what ever happened to being plain ignorant, having a valid but different view or being a contrarian?
I think you'll find that I'm not one to lightly cry "troll", Cheese.
Just to be clear, I happen to believe that when it comes to economics and finance, Frazzled ought to be one of the more knowledgeable posters here, given his demonstrated knowledge of several finance elements in the past, and possibly even related to his employment. As such, I do not possess the naivete to assume stupidity in his case, therefore I must attribute malice. 
Yeah Howard said something similar so calling him out for trolling might actually be correct.
Who's Howard?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 19:22:51
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 19:24:06
Subject: Re:So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
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Treesong
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/06 19:27:04
Subject: So are we about done with austerity nonsense?
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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