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 LValx wrote:
IMO, RoF beats quality in 6th.

And then someone spams AV 14 and laughs at you.

Meltaspam is better than a few lascannons against AV14 anyway.

 Melissia wrote:
Meltaspam is better than a few lascannons against AV14 anyway.

And now you've answered the OP's question: yes, dedicated long-range anti-tank has been removed in favor of making melta the only option for dealing with heavy tanks.

 Peregrine wrote:

 LValx wrote:
IMO, RoF beats quality in 6th.

And then someone spams AV 14 and laughs at you.

Because AV14 is so prevalent? Good luck winning with LandRaiders or massed Russes. LR's cant score without troops getting out, that is a bit problematic. AV14 is tough, no doubt, but spamming Str. 9 doesnt help much. Melta is the big answer there and that is a completely different conversation because it is short ranged. I'd hardly say having the ability to kill AV14 at range is important in competitive 40k. Otherwise Necrons, GK, etc wouldn't be nearly as good as they are. Pretty much all armies in the game need to rely on melta in order to pop things like LRs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm much more likely to see massed bodies of infantry than I am AV14. I'd rather have a list that can deal with what I am more likely to encounter, not that which I am unlikely to run into.

How many Adepticon top 16 lists included AV14?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Meltaspam is better than a few lascannons against AV14 anyway.

And now you've answered the OP's question: yes, dedicated long-range anti-tank has been removed in favor of making melta the only option for dealing with heavy tanks.

This isn't a new development however that is unique to 6E. Only Tau really have seen a reduction in long range anti-AV 14 ability, every other 6E book remains largely unchanged in that regard from previous editions, and in fact Lascannon prices have dropped noticeably for many units. AV14 isn't available to all armies in the game, and of those it is available to they aren't usually taken in large numbers or even necessarily likely to be seen. Add to that that many of such vehicles are rear AV10 and can be practically auto-killed in CC by half the basic troop units in the game, and AV14 isn't the mighty shield it seems like.

 Peregrine wrote:
dedicated long-range anti-tank has been removed in favor of making melta the only option for dealing with heavy tanks.

Don't be dense. I was actually speaking from a list-builder's perspective after reviewing a large number of lists.

Long-ranged anti-tank still exists and is still used. Lascannon blobs you talk of seem to be basically non-existent, however, since most people even back in 5th edition preferred melta anyway from my experience. Even foot guard rarely put lascannons in blobs. Maybe your local meta is just weird.

" Subject: Has there been a reduction in Dedicated Anti-Tank, or is it my Imagination?"

Oh I wish, sadly for me every one knows I'm a mech-vet and Sentinel w-oar where I play so they do tend to tool up anti-mech stuff just for me

I don't know whether there has been reduction of long-range antitank other than Tau, however it can't be denied that medium-strength S7 to S8 shooting has massively increased over last 3 or so years. Combined with Hull point change, almost nobody seems to use light vehicles like Venoms, Warbuggies, Land Speeders etc, or small Walkers anymore. Against army like GK or Tau, which can spam just stupid amount of S5 to S7 shooting, these vehicles just have no chance.

Indeed, vehicles in general are appearing less and less on most tables I'm seeing and there was an immediate drastic reduction as soon as 6E hit. In the last..6 or so weeks of my current league the only non-flyer vehicles I've been opposed by have been Hammerheads, a couple Forgefiends that died...*very* quickly, and an Ork list that ran a bunch of trukks (which already died fast enough that the HP change didn't really matter since all they need now is 1 turn to move anyway).

I'd much rather have the HYMP than the old Broadside, but maybe i'm crazy for that.

I would agree with you if the rest of the army wasn't already drowning in str 7 guns. The new HYMP broadsides in conjunction with the new missile pod drones are pretty nasty, an overall may be even deadlier than the old railgun incarnations. But the Tau already have that covered (although these are the cheapest sources of str 7 in the army by far), while the older broadsides covered a function that other Tau units couldn't.

LValx wrote:
Yeah but Tau can pack 60+ Str. 7 shots, most of which are twin-linked, along with ways to strip cover, boost BS, etc.

Tau might not have quality, but they have tons of quantity. I'd say that by taking a look at recent "strong" codices, it'll be come apparent that quantity > quality. Both Crons and GK don't have Str8+ in spades, but they do have massive amounts


See, this is my problem. Tau are no longer finesse army. They are brute force spammy army, not unlike Storm of Dakka Orks. It's just infinitely more boring than old Tau where you really had to count your shots.

I feel the same way. Its not so much a balance issue as a playstyle issue that changes the way the army feels on the tabletop. Having a few high quality AT shots really helped differentiate Tau from other armies. The new Tau do feel kind of like running orkz when it comes to taking on vehicles, with HYMP and missile drone broadsides being very similar in behavior to lootas.

Where else do you really get Str.7 for Tau though? Hammerhead, Skyray, Riptides all don't have it. Crisis suits can take it but wont be as efficient points wise.

Tau are so balanced that you could probably have a lot of success with 1 Skyray, 1 Hammerhead, 1 Broadside squad. You can take the str. 10 and use Markers to help boost, if you really do feel that you need that sort of weapon (I personally don't find myself in NEED of str. 10).

Where else do you really get Str.7 for Tau though? Hammerhead, Skyray, Riptides all don't have it. Crisis suits can take it but wont be as efficient points wise.

Str 7 is available in every Tau force org slot. You can get them in troops through Krootox, Fast Attack through either flyer, and in elites and HQ through missile pods which are actually quite economical (one shot for about 13 points), with Broadsides covering heavy support. Granted, Broadsides are the cheapest source, but they are hardly the only source, and you can build some nasty, hard hitting deathrain squads for fairly cheap if you so desire (great for those of us who haven't dropped $150 to buy three of the new broadsides). The question really boils down to this, do you want an even cheaper source of strength 7 shooting, or would you rather have a pretty glaring weak point in your armies shooting covered?