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2013/05/08 10:52:55
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
That's irrelevent. I say again, if immigrants were to randomly up and leave, do you think that factories wouldn't advertise vacancies and have them filled by young English people?
Which is not even close to what you said, which was...
Immigration from Eastern Europe is the cause of youth unemployment for this country
Immigration is not the cause of unemployment anymore than the raising of the retirement age is. We could reduce the age of retirement to 40 and that would also create a lot of vacancies.
2013/05/08 11:01:09
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
BryllCream wrote: most unemployed young people are not living by themselves and claiming housing benefit, they're living at home.
Citation needed. Or are you just making things up again?
I'm doing that thing whereby I was unemployed until a few months ago, as were many of my friends. Like I was saying above, you can throw around your stats but I *was* an unemployed young man, and I hung around with other unemployed young men, and I know how they think/feel/act.
Which is not even close to what you said, which was...
Immigration from Eastern Europe is the cause of youth unemployment for this country
Immigration is not the cause of unemployment anymore than the raising of the retirement age is. We could reduce the age of retirement to 40 and that would also create a lot of vacancies.
Lowing the retirement age would indeed lower unemployment, but we don't do it because we need people to pay into their retirement.
You've again avoided what I said - do you think that factory owners would simply not bother to look for new workers if they didn't have access to cheap migrants? Your graph is lovely, but you seem to be implying, via your graph, that vacancies in the economy would not be filled by unemployment, which is utter nonsense. It's irrefutable that immigration is causing unemployment amongst English people.
Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.
Na-na-na-naaaaa.
Hey Jude.
2013/05/08 11:32:55
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
BryllCream wrote: most unemployed young people are not living by themselves and claiming housing benefit, they're living at home.
Citation needed. Or are you just making things up again?
I'm doing that thing whereby I was unemployed until a few months ago, as were many of my friends. Like I was saying above, you can throw around your stats but I *was* an unemployed young man, and I hung around with other unemployed young men, and I know how they think/feel/act.
There's a name for that, anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is not data. You could know 500,000 people in a similar situation but if the other million and a half are not living at home then what are "most" (your word) doing?
You've again avoided what I said - do you think that factory owners would simply not bother to look for new workers if they didn't have access to cheap migrants? Your graph is lovely, but you seem to be implying, via your graph, that vacancies in the economy would not be filled by unemployment, which is utter nonsense. It's irrefutable that immigration is causing unemployment amongst English people.
Migrants are not cheaper than local workers, we have minimum wage laws.
What graph? I haven't used a graph to show anything. Are you actually reading peoples posts?
I don't think you understand what the words irrefutable, or cause, mean.
2013/05/08 11:40:51
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
There's a name for that, anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is not data. You could know 500,000 people in a similar situation but if the other million and a half are not living at home then what are "most" (your word) doing?
I have explained to you how people feel about issues, and why. The fact that you, and the political ruling class, refuse to listen or address the white working class in the slightest, is the reason UKIP are doing so well.
Anyway I'm done arguing with liberals in this thread, I'm sure you have a pithy "final word" reply lined up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/08 11:41:05
Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.
Na-na-na-naaaaa.
Hey Jude.
2013/05/08 11:54:41
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
There's a name for that, anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is not data. You could know 500,000 people in a similar situation but if the other million and a half are not living at home then what are "most" (your word) doing?
I have explained to you how people feel about issues, and why. The fact that you, and the political ruling class, refuse to listen or address the white working class in the slightest, is the reason UKIP are doing so well.
Anyway I'm done arguing with liberals in this thread, I'm sure you have a pithy "final word" reply lined up.
White working class...
Not British working class, not English working class but white working class.
My granddad fought people like you during the war, how full of despair he'd be to realize you've hateful ideology crept into the country of multicultural freedoms he fought for and loved.
2013/05/08 12:12:31
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
There's a name for that, anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is not data. You could know 500,000 people in a similar situation but if the other million and a half are not living at home then what are "most" (your word) doing?
I have explained to you how people feel about issues, and why. The fact that you, and the political ruling class, refuse to listen or address the white working class in the slightest, is the reason UKIP are doing so well.
Anyway I'm done arguing with liberals in this thread, I'm sure you have a pithy "final word" reply lined up.
White working class...
Not British working class, not English working class but white working class.
My granddad fought people like you during the war, how full of despair he'd be to realize you've hateful ideology crept into the country of multicultural freedoms he fought for and loved.
Wait your grandfather fought for the Germans? Now I'm, confused.
To the topic, despite the ganing up, you ignore voters like Bryllcream at your peril. You may not feel their grievances are legitimate and won't address them, but that only turns their views towards anger. And anger leads to the Dark Side.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/08 12:15:00
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/05/08 12:15:18
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
There's a name for that, anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is not data. You could know 500,000 people in a similar situation but if the other million and a half are not living at home then what are "most" (your word) doing?
I have explained to you how people feel about issues, and why. The fact that you, and the political ruling class, refuse to listen or address the white working class in the slightest, is the reason UKIP are doing so well.
Anyway I'm done arguing with liberals in this thread, I'm sure you have a pithy "final word" reply lined up.
White working class...
Not British working class, not English working class but white working class.
My granddad fought people like you during the war, how full of despair he'd be to realize you've hateful ideology crept into the country of multicultural freedoms he fought for and loved.
Wait your grandfather fought for the Germans? Now I'm, confused.
No frazzled, he fought against people motivated by a racial agenda and notions of superiority over other 'races'.
2013/05/08 12:16:59
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
There's a name for that, anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is not data. You could know 500,000 people in a similar situation but if the other million and a half are not living at home then what are "most" (your word) doing?
I have explained to you how people feel about issues, and why. The fact that you, and the political ruling class, refuse to listen or address the white working class in the slightest, is the reason UKIP are doing so well.
Anyway I'm done arguing with liberals in this thread, I'm sure you have a pithy "final word" reply lined up.
White working class...
Not British working class, not English working class but white working class.
My granddad fought people like you during the war, how full of despair he'd be to realize you've hateful ideology crept into the country of multicultural freedoms he fought for and loved.
I would exalt this post an infinite number of times if I was able to.
2013/05/08 12:20:12
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
There's a name for that, anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is not data. You could know 500,000 people in a similar situation but if the other million and a half are not living at home then what are "most" (your word) doing?
I have explained to you how people feel about issues, and why. The fact that you, and the political ruling class, refuse to listen or address the white working class in the slightest, is the reason UKIP are doing so well.
Anyway I'm done arguing with liberals in this thread, I'm sure you have a pithy "final word" reply lined up.
White working class...
Not British working class, not English working class but white working class.
My granddad fought people like you during the war, how full of despair he'd be to realize you've hateful ideology crept into the country of multicultural freedoms he fought for and loved.
Wait your grandfather fought for the Germans? Now I'm, confused.
No frazzled, he fought against people motivated by a racial agenda and notions of superiority over other 'races'.
So you're calling this Bryllcream bloke a Nazi then? Why? I'm still confused. Thats ok, I just started my second cup of coffee. I'm just happy I have a new phrase. "Cornish tin merchant."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/08 12:21:01
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/05/08 12:21:36
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
There's a name for that, anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is not data. You could know 500,000 people in a similar situation but if the other million and a half are not living at home then what are "most" (your word) doing?
I have explained to you how people feel about issues, and why. The fact that you, and the political ruling class, refuse to listen or address the white working class in the slightest, is the reason UKIP are doing so well.
Anyway I'm done arguing with liberals in this thread, I'm sure you have a pithy "final word" reply lined up.
No, you have explained how you feel about these issues. The fact that you and others like you are in the minority in every poll and election ever held in this country should tell you exactly how the British people feel.
The fact you can't back up a single thing you say, while those who oppose your view have used all sorts of studies and research to back up their points should tell you exactly what the actual facts are.
2013/05/08 12:22:05
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
The average British soldier was insanely racist. Certainly my grandad was
I would ask you where I mentioned anything about racial superiority but it's pointless - you've already made up your mind, and I salute your resolve in refusing to change it in the face of evidence to the contrary.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, you have research to show that I and my friends/co worksheet do not feel threatened by.immigration? Do share.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/08 12:23:16
Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.
Na-na-na-naaaaa.
Hey Jude.
2013/05/08 12:24:47
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
I would ask you where I mentioned anything about racial superiority but it's pointless - you've already made up your mind, and I salute your resolve in refusing to change it in the face of evidence to the contrary.
That's funny you are talking about evidence, and yet you have failed to provide any.
2013/05/08 12:36:01
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
BryllCream wrote: The average British soldier was insanely racist. Certainly my grandad was
I would ask you where I mentioned anything about racial superiority but it's pointless - you've already made up your mind, and I salute your resolve in refusing to change it in the face of evidence to the contrary.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, you have research to show that I and my friends/co worksheet do not feel threatened by.immigration? Do share.
Your friends are welcome to either research properly or remain ignorant as you have proven yourself in this thread with your xenophobia.
Neither of my grandfathers are or were racists. Nor were their brothers who served. Perhaps your obnoxious racism is a result of taught bigotry in your family, if so, I am sorry you have kept this malignant ideology, which flies both in the face of logic/science and in the face of most religious teachings of tolerance.
You have made reference, repeatedly, in this thread to the 'ethnic English', something I showed you through my lighthearted initial post was utter bs. The English are an amalgam of multiple tribal migrations and wars, resulting in a mixture of many cultures. You cited directly 'white' people being under threat from immigration of 'foreigners', I have English friends with Asian, African and South American heritage, I am incredibly happy with my friendships with them, I am enriched by them and they work hard and contribute to society. Your bigoted attitude towards them and those who'd move here to join the community and contribute, based upon bizarre notions of 'stealing jobs', is the sort of closeted racist bs that, when not confronted and exposed, leads to the potential for a nation to fall into fascism.
2013/05/08 12:36:54
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
Don't let johnny foreigner take your place, fight!
THEY TOOK OUR THREAD!
But its rightfully ours!
Don't let them join 'our'* forums!
*our [aʊə]
determiner
1. of, belonging to, or associated in some way with us our best vodka our parents are good to us
2. belonging to or associated with all people or people in general our nearest planet is Venus
3. a formal word for my used by editors or other writers, and monarchs
4. Informal (often sarcastic) used instead of your are our feet hurting?
5. Dialect belonging to the family of the speaker it's our Sandra's birthday tomorrow
6. xenophobic nonsense - These are our jobs etc
2013/05/08 12:53:25
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
Don't let johnny foreigner take your place, fight!
Indeed. Fight the Power. Free Huey. The Man has been keeping you down. Stomp the oppressor.
Rise up Free Cornwall, you Tin Merchants of History!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/05/08 13:18:04
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
Rise up Free Cornwall, you Tin Merchants of History!
Don't worry Frazz, The South (-West) Will Rise Again!
SKLAR!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/05/08 19:17:05
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
In which case they were atypical of their times. If popular culture reflects the appetites of its audience, then the '30s and '40s were demonstrably more racist than today, judged by today's standards. Which is what we're doing.
You have made reference, repeatedly, in this thread to the 'ethnic English', something I showed you through my lighthearted initial post was utter bs. The English are an amalgam of multiple tribal migrations and wars, resulting in a mixture of many cultures.
That's no more true of England than of pretty much every country on earth, in fact, in some cases, less so. As far as the British countries are concerned, the English are no more a 'Mongrel Race' than the Scots, Welsh, Irish and yes, the Cornish. There is hard genetic data to back this up. I'm presuming you're using the word 'culture' incorrectly here, by the way, because if you aren't you're even more wrong.
BryllCream wrote: most unemployed young people are not living by themselves and claiming housing benefit, they're living at home.
Citation needed. Or are you just making things up again?
I'm doing that thing whereby I was unemployed until a few months ago, as were many of my friends. Like I was saying above, you can throw around your stats but I *was* an unemployed young man, and I hung around with other unemployed young men, and I know how they think/feel/act.
There's a name for that, anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is not data.
You'll probably learn that anecdotal evidence is a valid form of qualitative data-gathering in your 2nd year.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but just so we are all on the same page, what is the "correct" definition of Culture?
its this cool advanced technology society run by highly advanced machines....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/08 19:25:45
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/05/08 19:25:41
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
I don't have a dog in this fight, but just so we are all on the same page, what is the "correct" definition of Culture?
The best and most accurate description is probably 'signifying practices related to discrete groups'. It's certainly not synonymous with ethnicity or race, rather those two terms refer to types of discrete groups that make use of culture in their encoding and decoding of meaning in lived practice.
That's irrelevent. I say again, if immigrants were to randomly up and leave, do you think that factories wouldn't advertise vacancies and have them filled by young English people?
Which is not even close to what you said, which was...
Immigration from Eastern Europe is the cause of youth unemployment for this country
Immigration is not the cause of unemployment anymore than the raising of the retirement age is. We could reduce the age of retirement to 40 and that would also create a lot of vacancies.
Citation needed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/08 19:26:23
That's irrelevent. I say again, if immigrants were to randomly up and leave, do you think that factories wouldn't advertise vacancies and have them filled by young English people?
Which is not even close to what you said, which was...
Immigration from Eastern Europe is the cause of youth unemployment for this country
Immigration is not the cause of unemployment anymore than the raising of the retirement age is. We could reduce the age of retirement to 40 and that would also create a lot of vacancies.
Citation needed.
No worries, it's on the previous page, but i'll quote it again for you.
Spoiler:
Research does not find a significant impact of overall immigration on unemployment in the UK, but the evidence suggests that immigration from outside the EU could have a negative impact on the employment of UK-born workers, especially during an economic downturn.
Does immigration create greater unemployment or greater inactivity among existing workers? The first systematic study of this issue used data for 1983-2000 to analyse how changes in the share of migrants impact on employment, labour market participation and unemployment of existing workers (Dustmann, Fabbri and Preston 2005). It concluded that immigration had no statistically significant effect on the overall employment outcomes of UK-born workers. The study did, however, find statistically significant effects on specific educational groups of UK-born workers: immigration was found to have adverse effects on employment, labour market participation and unemployment of UK-born with intermediate education (defined as O level and equivalent) and a positive impact on employment outcomes of UK-born workers with advanced education (A-levels or university degrees).
A separate study carried out by researchers at the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) analysed the impact of labour immigration of A8 workers on claimant unemployment during May 2004-November 2005 (Lemos and Portes 2008). The study found little evidence of an adverse effect. There is some evidence to suggest that, just like the impact on wages, the effects of immigration on unemployment differ between the short and long run. An OECD study of the impact of immigration on the unemployment of domestic workers in OECD countries (including the UK) during 1984-2003 found that an increase in the share of migrants in the labour force increases unemployment in the short to medium term (over a period of 5-10 years) but has no significant impact in the long run (Jean and Jimenez 2007).
Two recent studies have provided additional insights on the impact of immigration on employment in the UK using a time period which includes the latest recession. Lucchino, Rosazza-Bondibene and Portes (2012) used National Insurance Number (NINO) registrations data from 2002 to 2011 to explore the impact of immigration on claimant count rates (i.e. a proxy for unemployment) in 379 local authorities in England. The results suggest that there is no impact of immigration on the claimant count rate. This result holds even during periods of low economic growth or recession.
Research by the Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) studied the impact of migrants on the employment of UK-born people using data from the Labour Force Survey (LFS) for 1975-2010 (Migration Advisory Committee 2012). The study suggests that, overall, migrants have no impact on UK-born employment. However, the MAC also analysed the specific impacts of EU and non-EU migrants and also distinguished between two sub-periods: 1975-1994 and 1995-2010. It found that non-EU immigration was associated with a reduction in the employment of UK-born workers during 1995-2010. No statistically significant effects were found for EU immigration. The MAC analysis also suggests that the likelihood of a negative impact of immigration on employment of UK-born workers is likely to be greatest during economic downturns.
In which case they were atypical of their times. If popular culture reflects the appetites of its audience, then the '30s and '40s were demonstrably more racist than today, judged by today's standards. Which is what we're doing.
You have made reference, repeatedly, in this thread to the 'ethnic English', something I showed you through my lighthearted initial post was utter bs. The English are an amalgam of multiple tribal migrations and wars, resulting in a mixture of many cultures.
That's no more true of England than of pretty much every country on earth, in fact, in some cases, less so. As far as the British countries are concerned, the English are no more a 'Mongrel Race' than the Scots, Welsh, Irish and yes, the Cornish. There is hard genetic data to back this up. I'm presuming you're using the word 'culture' incorrectly here, by the way, because if you aren't you're even more wrong.
I was simply illustrating to he of the 'England for the White English, English jobs for White English' that he was talking from his arsehole. There has been migration to the isles for thousands of years. The culture shifts and evolves. Prejudice against people who are not 'white' English is racism. I have several friends who identify as English and are not white, they are as English as they want to be, their presence has not driven the ravens from the tower. Food, music, language and the color of the grandkids is all changing, I couldn't care less, in fact I welcome it. Diversification and multiculturalism and tolerance are wonderful things, we should only be drawing lines in the sand when we encounter cultures that do not wish to integrate, contribute and mingle, and instead wish to aggressively assimilate and conquer, not mentioning any names. Bigotry against someone else having a better suntan than you is daft, daft and dangerous.
2013/05/08 22:09:26
Subject: United Kingdom Independence Party hail victory
In which case they were atypical of their times. If popular culture reflects the appetites of its audience, then the '30s and '40s were demonstrably more racist than today, judged by today's standards. Which is what we're doing.
You have made reference, repeatedly, in this thread to the 'ethnic English', something I showed you through my lighthearted initial post was utter bs. The English are an amalgam of multiple tribal migrations and wars, resulting in a mixture of many cultures.
That's no more true of England than of pretty much every country on earth, in fact, in some cases, less so. As far as the British countries are concerned, the English are no more a 'Mongrel Race' than the Scots, Welsh, Irish and yes, the Cornish. There is hard genetic data to back this up. I'm presuming you're using the word 'culture' incorrectly here, by the way, because if you aren't you're even more wrong.
I was simply illustrating to he of the 'England for the White English, English jobs for White English' that he was talking from his arsehole. There has been migration to the isles for thousands of years. The culture shifts and evolves. Prejudice against people who are not 'white' English is racism. I have several friends who identify as English and are not white, they are as English as they want to be, their presence has not driven the ravens from the tower. Food, music, language and the color of the grandkids is all changing, I couldn't care less, in fact I welcome it. Diversification and multiculturalism and tolerance are wonderful things, we should only be drawing lines in the sand when we encounter cultures that do not wish to integrate, contribute and mingle, and instead wish to aggressively assimilate and conquer, not mentioning any names. Bigotry against someone else having a better suntan than you is daft, daft and dangerous.
I agree with you, but I think your characterisation of BryllCream as a white supremacist is a little harsh. One doesn't have to be racist to accept a discrete English ethnic diversity - it exists, it's fact. One also doesn't have to be racist to recognise that England is predominantly a majority white nation, both historically and currently. Accepting both of those facts, does it then follow that it is automatically racist to want this state of affairs not to change? No, I don't think so. Some people are just small 'c' conservatives in that they actually quite like their country the way it is and don't want it to change. And, even those people accept immigration, as long as incoming people actually fulfill a shortage area as opposed to just being used as a tool for driving wage bills down, and as long as they are willing to adapt to our way of life, as opposed to the other way around. There is no shortage area so large that it requires 800,000 immigrants to come in and fill positions. No way.
There are a lot of people who think like this in the UK. These people are here, they vote, get used to it. You'll have to, because they resent being told by metropolitan liberal types that they are stupid and ignorant, or that they are closet fascists, and they are starting to make their voices heard with increasing volume. Blair sowed the wind, I predict that in the next decade the liberal establishment will reap the whirlwind. The backlash is coming. Be ready.
Albatross wrote:
That's no more true of England than of pretty much every country on earth, in fact, in some cases, less so.
...I think that was kind of the point, Alb.
EDIT:
Albatross wrote:
One doesn't have to be racist to accept a discrete English ethnic diversity - it exists, it's fact.
One also doesn't have to be racist to recognise that England is predominantly a majority white nation, both historically and currently.
I would say the existence of the English ethnicity is a fact. I would agree that Britain is indeed a majority 'white' nation (presuming we're only using the word 'white' loosely as a very basic observation of phenotype).
I would not say that the English ethnicity is 'white' however. Ethnicity is a social construct. I'm aware that you did not explicitly state that, but the linking of the statements above seemed to imply it.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/05/08 22:19:04
