Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Popenfresh wrote:
Dunno, reading the first half of the codex it's says the necrontyr all too quickly fell into bitter wars of secession. You might have case studies where they band together but their own history books are rife with internal conflict.

Also the IoM has one thing that the Necrons sorely lack, a unifying religion

Um... Can I mention that they are now almost all emotionless and apart from the overlords. And one thing can unite them- Reverse Bio-transference

I am going with a resounding no. I think people have their math wrong, especially GW.

People always underestimate humans, and the Imperial guard. But plain old humans really, you can just arm citizens if you have to, and how many of them must there be? Trillions?

The fact that the IOM has literally a million world's, and therefore several thousand billion IG means that absolutely nobody can really threaten the IOM except for the IOM, which has a brainwashing technique to rival the Taliban, so that won't happen either!

Well trained humans with las guns and bayonets can take on anything if they really have to, and that's just on the ground, how big must the Imperial navy be?

Add in a thousand chapters of space marines, tens of millions of sanctioned psychers and the sisters..

It's a no brainer! Humanities ability to breed like rats might be fething the real world up, but it ensures in fiction that nothing is really a threat to humanity except the rest of humanity!

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote:
It is said that the necrons are everywhere, in deep underground tombs. And according to the old codex and hinted at in the new one the necrons have one of the largest tombs ever... and it is being plunder the the techpriests of Mars for secret technologies. Could this awaken the tomb, and call Sautekh the Silent King and Imotekh the Stormlord to destroy those who squat on their great civilisations? Please respond with your views.

Problem is that they are rather few, far between and often completely bonkers. They are like the Tau nuisance nothing more. just a shadow like a man having had a heavy stroke. They present almost no danger.

They destroyed things that the emperor failed to...

 Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote:

They destroyed things that the emperor failed to...

IoM =/= Big E

Quite easily if they wanted to. I remember reading about some necron ships that landed on Mars and thus must have been able to get past the Terra defences. By this logic, they could get a decent sized fleet in, assault terra and kill the emperor. This would throw the imperium into chaos and cause it to most likely collapse. It's just a case of enough of them waking up together and deciding that is what they are going to do. As they are at the moment, as has already been said, they are far too small to pose a threat to the IoM.

 Mavlun wrote:
Well we're talking about the Necron here, not the Necrontyr. And what they have is a hunger to reconstruct the dynasties. And assuming that is done, just as they had a Triarch coordinating the entire Necrontyr race before, regardless of inter-dynasty issues, they can have one again, with whatever final purpose they deem necessary (most likely the reversal of bio-transferrence).

Necrons are just as arrogant and obsessed with personal power as the necrontyr were. Also, lets not forget that the only time they formed a unified race was while they were still necrontyr.

So it's fallacious to state the necrontyr were more dived than the necrons are right now.

 RaptorsTallon wrote:
Quite easily if they wanted to. I remember reading about some necron ships that landed on Mars and thus must have been able to get past the Terra defences. By this logic, they could get a decent sized fleet in, assault terra and kill the emperor. This would throw the imperium into chaos and cause it to most likely collapse. It's just a case of enough of them waking up together and deciding that is what they are going to do. As they are at the moment, as has already been said, they are far too small to pose a threat to the IoM.

I'm pretty sure that story was invalidated by Ward's new fluff,
It was 4 Cruisers and one managed to touchdown on the surface before being destroyed

Now Newcrons have regressing tech and much less powerful FTL,
And Terra has better defences in most part due to the Lunar base than Mars

What I meant was that if four cruisers could get into the sol system and have to land on mars before it was destroyed, then a battlefleet could well be able to assault terra.

 RaptorsTallon wrote:
What I meant was that if four cruisers could get into the sol system and have to land on mars before it was destroyed, then a battlefleet could well be able to assault terra.

That small size is perhaps why they went undetected. Something larger and the Crons would be scrap-iron.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 RaptorsTallon wrote:
What I meant was that if four cruisers could get into the sol system and have to land on mars before it was destroyed, then a battlefleet could well be able to assault terra.

That small size is perhaps why they went undetected. Something larger and the Crons would be scrap-iron.

How about a 'cron vessel carrying a big bomb heading toward the palace? It could probably kill the Emperor I guess. Using this tactic the 'crons can take out every IoM leaders with relative ease.

mattyrm wrote:The fact that the IOM has literally a million world's, and therefore several thousand billion IG means that absolutely nobody can really threaten the IOM except for the IOM, which has a brainwashing technique to rival the Taliban, so that won't happen either!

If I recall correctly the new Necron codex mentions that they had millions of tomb worlds. While this number will have decreased somewhat, they could well still have more worlds (albeit unawakened) than the Imperium.

RaptorsTallon wrote:By this logic, they could get a decent sized fleet in, assault terra and kill the emperor. This would throw the imperium into chaos and cause it to most likely collapse.

The ships that got to Mars were Shroud-class cruisers if I recall correctly. Their most stealthy and fast ships. Unless they just send a significant number of them (and we don't know how easy that would be, and it would probably be spotted earlier anyway) they probably couldn't use that trick with other classes (i.e. stronger) of ships.

Zollac wrote:How about a 'cron vessel carrying a big bomb heading toward the palace? It could probably kill the Emperor I guess. Using this tactic the 'crons can take out every IoM leaders with relative ease.

Even if it penetrated Terra's defences it might not get past the void shields of the Imperial Palace.

Possibly, but the Crons hardly have good maps of Terra, and mind you their weapons does tend to fail against psychic forces. And Empy is likely placed in a place like a cellar, which I'm guessing is nuclear-proof at the very least.

 Popenfresh wrote:

 Mavlun wrote:
Well we're talking about the Necron here, not the Necrontyr. And what they have is a hunger to reconstruct the dynasties. And assuming that is done, just as they had a Triarch coordinating the entire Necrontyr race before, regardless of inter-dynasty issues, they can have one again, with whatever final purpose they deem necessary (most likely the reversal of bio-transferrence).

Necrons are just as arrogant and obsessed with personal power as the necrontyr were. Also, lets not forget that the only time they formed a unified race was while they were still necrontyr.

So it's fallacious to state the necrontyr were more dived than the necrons are right now.

This is not true. When they killed the c'tan, this is after they'd fed on their souls.

Also, they can make any sun supernova.

Necrons are mindless, and once the Silent King has woken up all the teams he can unite them all easily. The overlords do struggle for power but Imotekh has had little resistance. On top of that, proof they can unite is when Szeras, Imotekh, Trazyn, Orikan and Anikyr took down Farseer Starbane.

A couple of Necrons working together =/= a unified race. Why do people keep using these trivial alliances of convenience as evidence that the race is unified? Ork Warboss gets beat by bigger Warlord, and his tribe is amalgamated into a larger Waaagh, doesn't mean the Orks have achieved unity.

 mattyrm wrote:
I am going with a resounding no. I think people have their math wrong, especially GW.

People always underestimate humans, and the Imperial guard. But plain old humans really, you can just arm citizens if you have to, and how many of them must there be? Trillions?

The fact that the IOM has literally a million world's, and therefore several thousand billion IG means that absolutely nobody can really threaten the IOM except for the IOM, which has a brainwashing technique to rival the Taliban, so that won't happen either!

Well trained humans with las guns and bayonets can take on anything if they really have to, and that's just on the ground, how big must the Imperial navy be?

Add in a thousand chapters of space marines, tens of millions of sanctioned psychers and the sisters..

It's a no brainer! Humanities ability to breed like rats might be fething the real world up, but it ensures in fiction that nothing is really a threat to humanity except the rest of humanity!

QFT, people always fail to realise the size of the IoM, orks are the largest force in the universe and the IoM has kept them in check for 10000+ years. The Necrons are pretty small fry in comparison, possibly more important than the tau. Nothing compared to Chaos, Nids, Orks & IoM.

 Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:

 Mavlun wrote:
Well we're talking about the Necron here, not the Necrontyr. And what they have is a hunger to reconstruct the dynasties. And assuming that is done, just as they had a Triarch coordinating the entire Necrontyr race before, regardless of inter-dynasty issues, they can have one again, with whatever final purpose they deem necessary (most likely the reversal of bio-transferrence).

Necrons are just as arrogant and obsessed with personal power as the necrontyr were. Also, lets not forget that the only time they formed a unified race was while they were still necrontyr.

So it's fallacious to state the necrontyr were more dived than the necrons are right now.

This is not true. When they killed the c'tan, this is after they'd fed on their souls.

Also, they can make any sun supernova.

Necrons are mindless, and once the Silent King has woken up all the teams he can unite them all easily. The overlords do struggle for power but Imotekh has had little resistance. On top of that, proof they can unite is when Szeras, Imotekh, Trazyn, Orikan and Anikyr took down Farseer Starbane.

Empy seemingly galloped into battle against the Void Dragon to prevent it eating our sun, that's at least how I interpret it. That' proves how powerful the dude was. I mean many non-subtle hints are there, like how the armour gleamed and such.

this is kind of like asking if the orks could destroy the imperium just by simply thinking about it. They could but they are too dumb to ever think of that... so they wont.

They could destroy it accidently. All it would take is some clumsy Cryptek stumbling and accidentally hitting the button that destroys the Sol System's sun.

Or some dynasty to win the war over the Celestial Orrery.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Or some dynasty to win the war over the Celestial Orrery.

Pretty sure that's what VD meant

While people have made some interesting points here, a lot of what has been said is incorrect or only somewhat correct.

On the issue of Necrons being divided

While the new codex does say that Necron Lords sometimes seize power from one another in battle, it also states that these battles are fought with ritual precision and presided over by the Triarch Praetorians who make sure that resources are not waisted unnecessarily. So while they may fight against each other sometimes, it is not in normal warfare, it is ritual battle. The only exception to this that I know of is the battle for the Celestial Orrery.

Now, do they pursue different agendas? Absolutely, BUT these agendas are almost always working towards the same goal. If 100 Necron Lords are leading 100 different campaigns of reclamation against the other races, chances are they intend to keep the worlds conquered and tomb worlds awoken for themselves, but they are all still working towards the same goal of bringing the galaxy back under Necron control. While it may not be unified Necron control, it would still be Necron control.
The new codex actually uses the words “vast majority” of Necron Lords still spend basically all of their time fighting against the other races in wars of reclamation.

So Necrons are a much larger threat that people here are making them out to be.

Something else that adds to the threat of Necrons is this. While many Necrons may not be able to repair themselves in the field, their remains teleport to a nearby tombworld for repair. In Hammer and Anvil, the Adeptus Mechanicus Magos says that they estimate that only about one in 10,000 Necrons who are destroyed fail to teleport back to a tombworld, where they are no doubt repaired at some point. This means that wars, no matter how titanic drain their numbers by anything except the tiniest of fractions.

These exceptional threats the Necrons represent is the very reason I think Matt Ward introduced the Necrons dependence on the webway. With practically no lore weaknesses except perhaps not yet returning to their former full strength , he had to give them some sort of Achilles Heel. According to him, if the Eldar could close off all of the Necron Dolmen gates, the Necrons would basically be trapped where they are.

Although, the very idea of Dolmen Gates is stupid. You gonna tell me that a race that can create stable, usable wormholes and create artificial suns can’t make a ship move faster than the speed of light? Come on, I think both Eldar and Necrons should be able to have ships not dependent on the webway.

As for them being a threat to the Imperium? Yes. As great a threat as Chaos? No way. As great a threat as the Tyranids? Close, but still no. The only reason they aren’t is because, as stated above, they are busy fighting everyone, not just the Imperium.

Yes the Necrons are almost everywhere now. The oldcrons were out there on the deserted and dead worlds, far off to the border of known space.
Now the newcrons are back in the middle of the battlefield called 40k-verse.

But I don't see a chance of a return of the triarchy and thus those newcrons may fight for some time before any Lord could even think about a major conflict. So No, Newcrons aren't fully operational.

Secondly, we get many hints who they oppose.
- Tyranids are identified as a threat to deal with.
- orks are still another threat they care for.
- Eldar got arch nemesis N°1 status.
- Chaos and its disorder is the opposite of the newcrons tendency of order. Plus no psykers and the old ones were psykers too...
- Tau don't even get to throw a party or a chance to talk..
- humans are contacted and offered to leave...

I'd guess the newcrons wouldn't attempt to destroy the IoM. So many threats to deal with. Easier to get rid of all these fools who attack the IoM before they realize there is a "new"power rising ( again ).
Remember crons want respect and to be on top. Weakened and depleted after a war against the IoM isn't getting them there and they know how costly wars can be since they fought their Gods.