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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 02:21:36
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22443813
The man accused of killing 12 people and injuring dozens in the July massacre at a Batman film in Colorado intends to plead not guilty by reason of insanity, his lawyers have said.
Lawyers for James Holmes, 25, said they would ask for the change of plea at a 13 May hearing.
A judge previously entered a not guilty plea after the defence said Mr Holmes was not ready to plead.
Prosecutors have said they will seek the death penalty.
Mr Holmes is charged with multiple counts of murder and attempted murder in the 20 July attack in Aurora, Colorado. It was one of the worst mass shootings in US history.
The attack took place at the midnight premiere of the newest Batman film in a suburb of Denver.
He is also accused of booby-trapping his apartment with explosive chemical and incendiary devices linked by wires, intended to distract emergency responders from the cinema shooting.
Medical evaluation
If the judge accepts the new plea, Mr Holmes will be moved to a psychiatric hospital where doctors will determine whether he was insane at the time of the attack.
A jury could still find him guilty despite a medical finding of insanity.
Colorado law defines insanity as the inability to distinguish right from wrong, caused by a diseased or defective mind.
Mr Holmes's lawyers have said at hearings and in court documents that they believe the former student is mentally ill. He was being seen by a psychiatrist before the shooting.
The trial had been scheduled for August, but a judge has pushed it back to February 2014. It is unclear if the new plea will further delay the case.
Prosecutors rejected an earlier offer from Mr Holmes's lawyers to plead guilty in order to avoid execution.
In a court filing, they accused the defence of violating a gag order by making the offer public, and argued the defence had repeatedly refused to yield information they needed to evaluate the plea offer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 02:25:36
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
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I don't recall exactly, but wasn't he caught trying to flee? Because flight is indicative of an awareness of right vs. wrong.
This is not to discount the myriad reasons to explain flight from the scene, such as schizophrenic hallucinations, etc. However, on its surface this doesn't sound like it will work.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 02:26:23
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Denied. He switch weapons. IMO. Once that M4 jammed he drew another weapon. Plus he planned it. Also riggged a IED in his apartment....
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 02:30:03
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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azazel the cat wrote:I don't recall exactly, but wasn't he caught trying to flee? Because flight is indicative of an awareness of right vs. wrong.
This is not to discount the myriad reasons to explain flight from the scene, such as schizophrenic hallucinations, etc. However, on its surface this doesn't sound like it will work.
Nope... he was fighting till the end.
May still be granted "not guilty by reason of insanity" via jury.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 02:42:46
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
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Jihadin wrote:Denied. He switch weapons. IMO. Once that M4 jammed he drew another weapon. Plus he planned it. Also riggged a IED in his apartment....
Where paranoid schizophrenia is concerned, a booby-trapped apartment is not necessarily evidence of not understanding the difference between right & wrong. Same with swapping weapons, unfortunately.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 11:13:41
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22443813
The man accused of killing 12 people and injuring dozens in the July massacre at a Batman film in Colorado intends to plead not guilty by reason of insanity, his lawyers have said.
Lawyers for James Holmes, 25, said they would ask for the change of plea at a 13 May hearing.
A judge previously entered a not guilty plea after the defence said Mr Holmes was not ready to plead.
Prosecutors have said they will seek the death penalty.
Mr Holmes is charged with multiple counts of murder and attempted murder in the 20 July attack in Aurora, Colorado. It was one of the worst mass shootings in US history.
The attack took place at the midnight premiere of the newest Batman film in a suburb of Denver.
He is also accused of booby-trapping his apartment with explosive chemical and incendiary devices linked by wires, intended to distract emergency responders from the cinema shooting.
Medical evaluation
If the judge accepts the new plea, Mr Holmes will be moved to a psychiatric hospital where doctors will determine whether he was insane at the time of the attack.
A jury could still find him guilty despite a medical finding of insanity.
Colorado law defines insanity as the inability to distinguish right from wrong, caused by a diseased or defective mind.
Mr Holmes's lawyers have said at hearings and in court documents that they believe the former student is mentally ill. He was being seen by a psychiatrist before the shooting.
The trial had been scheduled for August, but a judge has pushed it back to February 2014. It is unclear if the new plea will further delay the case.
Prosecutors rejected an earlier offer from Mr Holmes's lawyers to plead guilty in order to avoid execution.
In a court filing, they accused the defence of violating a gag order by making the offer public, and argued the defence had repeatedly refused to yield information they needed to evaluate the plea offer.
There's a shock. Pleading insanity? Who would have thunk it?
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 11:41:13
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte
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whembly wrote: azazel the cat wrote:I don't recall exactly, but wasn't he caught trying to flee? Because flight is indicative of an awareness of right vs. wrong.
This is not to discount the myriad reasons to explain flight from the scene, such as schizophrenic hallucinations, etc. However, on its surface this doesn't sound like it will work.
Nope... he was fighting till the end.
May still be granted "not guilty by reason of insanity" via jury.
I thought he was in a vehicle, driving away from the scene when he was caught?
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War is delightful to those who have no experience of it. ~Desiderius Erasmus |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 12:02:42
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Frazzled wrote:There's a shock. Pleading insanity? Who would have thunk it?
Yup, I was waiting for him to pull that stunt. Its as much of a shocker as finding out a bear is Catholic, or the Pope gaks in the woods
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 14:35:07
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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ashrog wrote: whembly wrote: azazel the cat wrote:I don't recall exactly, but wasn't he caught trying to flee? Because flight is indicative of an awareness of right vs. wrong.
This is not to discount the myriad reasons to explain flight from the scene, such as schizophrenic hallucinations, etc. However, on its surface this doesn't sound like it will work.
Nope... he was fighting till the end.
May still be granted "not guilty by reason of insanity" via jury.
I thought he was in a vehicle, driving away from the scene when he was caught?
IIRC he was about to enter a vehicle, where he had stored more ammunition or something.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/08 14:43:42
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Yeah. Cause he was totally gonna plead an affirmative defense  Of course he's pleading insanity. Whether he's actually insane I leave to the people whose job it is to determine if people are insane.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 04:43:39
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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He does realize that an asylum is no better than jail, right?
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 04:47:28
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Kain wrote:He does realize that an asylum is no better than jail, right?
How do you know? Have you been committed?
Now, granted... I don't know what's it like in Colorado... but, in my neck of the woods, psych wards are basically "Secured" hospitals, with the same amenities of the usual Hospital environment.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 04:53:29
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Yeah, Alot of people somehow think that you get off scotfree if you are not guilty by insanity. All he would be doing is trading an orange jumpsuit for a white gown with no back(Wait, Why dont we have THOSE in prisons?)
If the voices did tell him, well IDK, it is hard to feel sympathy for a guy that gunned down innocents. But if it is, i hope it works well. My grandpa nearly planned out the murder of his entire family because of a mental illness(They saw the warning signs and got him help) so i can understand.
But if he isnt, let him rot.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 05:04:54
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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Jihadin wrote:Denied. He switch weapons. IMO. Once that M4 jammed he drew another weapon. Plus he planned it. Also riggged a IED in his apartment....
Insanity doesnt necessarily mean random momentary behaviour, in fact it rarely does. Following a mad plan is equally indicative of insanity.
Frankly the case for the defence is fairly strong, the Colorado Theatre gunman is a fething loon, the trick is to then insist that out of public safety he spend the rest of his days in an asylum.
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 05:14:26
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Hallowed Canoness
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As far as the insanity plea goes the prosecution just needs to prove he was lucid when he made out his plan, complex explosives, extensive planning, it won't be hard to sell a jury on him being full of gak.
I'll go ahead and call it. This sorry excuse for a human is going to be found guilty as charged and sentenced to die.
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 05:16:35
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie
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Orlanth wrote: Jihadin wrote:Denied. He switch weapons. IMO. Once that M4 jammed he drew another weapon. Plus he planned it. Also riggged a IED in his apartment....
Insanity doesnt necessarily mean random momentary behaviour, in fact it rarely does. Following a mad plan is equally indicative of insanity.
Frankly the case for the defence is fairly strong, the Colorado Theatre gunman is a fething loon, the trick is to then insist that out of public safety he spend the rest of his days in an asylum.
It seems credible that he could have a case for not guilty due to insanity.
THe saddest thing about this was that he had been seeking help, but getting crazier as the event came closer. The fact that the police had been notified in advance that he was a threat is one of the sadder points and an indictment not of the madman but of the mental health (and justice) systems/. Automatically Appended Next Post: KalashnikovMarine wrote:As far as the insanity plea goes the prosecution just needs to prove he was lucid when he made out his plan, complex explosives, extensive planning, it won't be hard to sell a jury on him being full of gak.
I'll go ahead and call it. This sorry excuse for a human is going to be found guilty as charged and sentenced to die.
Not exactly. The finding is much more complex. Crazy can be crazy for (a great deal) more than an instant.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/09 05:18:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 05:20:17
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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KalashnikovMarine wrote:As far as the insanity plea goes the prosecution just needs to prove he was lucid when he made out his plan, complex explosives, extensive planning, it won't be hard to sell a jury on him being full of gak.
I'll go ahead and call it. This sorry excuse for a human is going to be found guilty as charged and sentenced to die.
TBH, I have a feeling he was lucid during atleast part of it.
But the problem is you get that one member who refuses. Still dont know how you get a jury for this sort of trial.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 05:30:39
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Hallowed Canoness
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A very very careful screening process. Glad I don't live in Denver, they're probably gonna have to put out Jury notices to half the city and outlying areas for this clusterfeth. I'd do everything possible to get deselected, just on the grounds of not wanting to have to miss that much class or work. This could go on for months.
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 06:07:25
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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whembly wrote: Kain wrote:He does realize that an asylum is no better than jail, right?
How do you know? Have you been committed?
Now, granted... I don't know what's it like in Colorado... but, in my neck of the woods, psych wards are basically "Secured" hospitals, with the same amenities of the usual Hospital environment.
No, but I know it's not a place that you'd ever want to go.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 06:18:10
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Have this guy live out the rest of his life in some what relative comfort on the Tax Payers dime...Heck no....flip the switch
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 06:25:24
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Jihadin wrote:Have this guy live out the rest of his life in some what relative comfort on the Tax Payers dime...Heck no....flip the switch 
Death sentences usually take over a decade to carry out.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 06:27:36
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Takes that long to exhaust all his appeal motions.
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 06:32:06
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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And you would have to pay for each and every trial.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 06:35:51
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Plus the injection or currents that kills him. I rather have him alive for another ten years instead of 50+ years.
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 06:49:34
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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I'd rather he be alive for maybe the next 12 months. His defense team has that long to get him off.
We give people on death row way too many appeals, especially with forensic evidence being what it is now. The probability of sentencing an innocent person to death is fairly low in our system. Even if it gets harder to get a conviction I would gladly trade that for quicker enactment of the sentences, save some money and get it over with. No point in prolonging the situation.
As it is, Death is for all intents and purposes a life sentence with a defined expiration date.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 10:30:32
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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Grey Templar wrote:The probability of sentencing an innocent person to death is fairly low in our system.
Unless that probability is close to zero, you shouldn't even be thinking about sentencing people to death.
"It is widely acknowledged that innocent people have most likely been executed in the U.S."
"Since 1973, 130 death row inmates have been exonerated across the United States."
Source
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 13:25:07
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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dæl wrote:Unless that probability is close to zero, you shouldn't even be thinking about sentencing people to death.
"It is widely acknowledged that innocent people have most likely been executed in the U.S."
"Since 1973, 130 death row inmates have been exonerated across the United States."
Source
With any human activity there will also be human error, should we avoid anything that does not have 0% chance of something going awry, or the wrong result occuring?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 13:38:06
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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Dreadclaw69 wrote: dæl wrote:Unless that probability is close to zero, you shouldn't even be thinking about sentencing people to death.
"It is widely acknowledged that innocent people have most likely been executed in the U.S."
"Since 1973, 130 death row inmates have been exonerated across the United States."
Source
With any human activity there will also be human error, should we avoid anything that does not have 0% chance of something going awry, or the wrong result occuring?
In something as absolute as killing someone then yes, you can't bring someone back if it turns out they are innocent. So advocating the speeding up of the time from conviction to execution, as GT did, is even more dangerous, by allowing even less scrutiny on the case you increase the chance of executing the wrong person. Personally I am absolutely against the death penalty, but it's not my country so I'm not going to preach the morality of it at you guys, just that if you are going to do these things you need to do them properly, regardless of cost or time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 13:43:13
Subject: Re:Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Dreadclaw69 wrote: dæl wrote:Unless that probability is close to zero, you shouldn't even be thinking about sentencing people to death.
"It is widely acknowledged that innocent people have most likely been executed in the U.S."
"Since 1973, 130 death row inmates have been exonerated across the United States."
Source
With any human activity there will also be human error, should we avoid anything that does not have 0% chance of something going awry, or the wrong result occuring?
In this case, yes.
We have death, which in order to be fair requires a LOT of expensive appeals, and we have life without parole, which requires less appeals and is quite a bit less expensive.
Removing the appeals is unconstitutional and I refuse to argue about it because if it's even on the table, you are a certified lunatic who doesn't understand how freedom works, so that leaves us with only live without parole vs death.
If death is killing a nonzero amount of innocents AND it costs more than the alternative, then there's not really a good reason to keep it unless you are a bloodthirsty savage. The death penalty doesn't bring victims back and it drags victims families along for 10 years of appeals. Let them move on. Put the convict in a box and let people forget about him and live their lives.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/09 13:52:49
Subject: Colorado Theater Gunman Pleads Insanity
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Old Sourpuss
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People behind bars for life are also afforded the same appeals process are they not?
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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