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 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
Woah, never thought Angron could be soo deep... now I see him in a whole new light.

Referring to the quotes from Betrayer? The same holds true for Kharn, Aaron Dembski-Bowden does a fantastic job at giving a very human insight into someone that is supposed to be so far removed from humanity... Giving emotions and conflict to beings for whom emotions just seemed beyond them.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
Woah, never thought Angron could be soo deep... now I see him in a whole new light.

Referring to the quotes from Betrayer? The same holds true for Kharn, Aaron Dembski-Bowden does a fantastic job at giving a very human insight into someone that is supposed to be so far removed from humanity... Giving emotions and conflict to beings for whom emotions just seemed beyond them.

Yeah. Personally I always saw Angron as a killing, brainless, emotionless machine. Now I know I was dead wrong.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
Woah, never thought Angron could be soo deep... now I see him in a whole new light.

Referring to the quotes from Betrayer? The same holds true for Kharn, Aaron Dembski-Bowden does a fantastic job at giving a very human insight into someone that is supposed to be so far removed from humanity... Giving emotions and conflict to beings for whom emotions just seemed beyond them.

Yeah. Personally I always saw Angron as a killing, brainless, emotionless machine. Now I know I was dead wrong.

What sucks is that EXTREME SPOILERS BELOW

I see Angron as almost a "Spartacus" figure. I wanted Angron to be saved/channeled into a loyalist. Maybe we could we trade Khan for Angron? Imagine if the Big E had won Angron over and the fury he would have had at Horus of his betrayal. That would have been something that would have been epic all by itself. I always felt like Horus bitched him by just using him as a rabid dog anyways. Not even really showing Angron to be anything other than the old style Khorne worshiper of "Blood, maim, kill!" That to me was and is shallow and boring.

Note that Angron's ultimate fate as a Daemon Prince is still ambiguous. As Lorgar quite rightly points out, he is in less pain and conflict in his new form, kept from a humiliating, agonizing death, and doing what he saw as his lot in life anyway: killing whatever is around to be killed.

You can argue that the real Angron died when he ascended into Daemonhood, or that he simply shed his the shackles of his unlucky earthly condition, both with equal propriety. Though his words as a daemon do imply that there is still a lot of Angron in the daemon (his reluctance to be called by honorifics, for instance)

 Grey Templar wrote:
Because the Emperor is a big dick with no interpersonal skills.

Basically this. I mean, the Emperor himself is to blame for the heresy. The way he treated Lorgar and the Word Bearers was just completely childish.

'Lorgar, the planets you conquer are too loyal and you do it too slowly. This is unacceptable. You are my only failure of a son. My son who butchers whole planets? He's cool. My son who I've specifically tasked with killing his brothers? Great drinking buddy. My son who, despite my warnings, practices witchcraft? He makes a mean sandwhich. You planets are too loyal! You're a failure. They worship me! I'm no God. Now kneel before your Go... I mean, father. No, kneel like you mean it! Like you're worship... I mean, just kneeling. Do it!'.

It is admittedly weird that someone who claimed to not want to be worshipped as a God went through a lot of trouble to appears as one.

Maybe he wanted that by mortal man, but not the Astartes. Of course it's just speculation, but it have been voiced more than once.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
It is admittedly weird that someone who claimed to not want to be worshipped as a God went through a lot of trouble to appears as one.

We're talking about Big E, probably the biggest hypocrite of the whole 40k universe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:

What sucks is that EXTREME SPOILERS BELOW

Spoiler:

After Lorgar finished his incantation and "released" Angron from the bite of the Butcher's Nails and made him the big, bad, red killy machine that we all know and love, he loses any and all humanity (as he should considering he's a Daemon Primarch) he had left, and becomes fury incarnate... Which sucks man... You almost feel bad for him. Also I wished he would have requested 320 skulls instead of 300... Perfect chance to worship the number 8 wasted, thanks a lot Angron

Mhmh... I don't understand... so were the Butcher Nails to restrain Angron from becoming a madprimarch, or Lorgar lied to him and, though he maybe removed the Nails, used some sort of magic that made him a butcher? Or maybe Lorgar didn't remove the Nails at all, maybe he AMPLIFIED their effect.

Mhmh...

Butcher's Nails were meant to increase aggression, acting basically as a drug that promises you the greatest high ever if you just let go of yourself a little bit more and spill just a little bit more blood, but never delivering on that promise, leaving you forever chasing after that "peace".

Problem is, they were designed for mortal men, with mortal levels of adrenalin. Implanted into a Primarch, they became something else entirely, with a commesurate increase in stimulated aggression and pain, and the respite they promised if you did what they wanted.

Lorgar didn't transform Angron into a butcher, nor amplified the effects of the nails, the books are quite clear that he was trying to help his brother. What Lorgar did was finally let Angron catch up to that peace he had been chasing for centuries. He freed Angron not only from the pain of the implants, but from the lingering anger and bitterness over losing his comrades/being snatched away from his death of choice.

All I know is that reading the Horus Heresy books makes me completely hate the IoM, seriously how the hell are you going to launch a Crusade, then get made at people worshiping you for saving them? Empy is a giant tyrant, Horus and he are pretty much the same the only difference is the Chaos gods at least give you a chance to join them before brutally and callously murdering you.

Kinda off topic but over on the Bolter and Chainsword they have a Dornian heresy thing that is an alternative time line in which Dorn becomes Warmaster of Chaos, I really like the Ultramarines in this story as they basically tell the Empy and Chaos to feth off, and Gulliman becomes a Ceaser like figure ruling his own little empire...

Back on topic

If Angron stayed away from Chaos I could see him trying to do something similar, form his own little empire and kill anything that threatens it

"Forming an empire" is fundamentally against what Angron stood for.

 Bludbaff wrote:
The story is awesome, but not really relevant. That's Angron after ten thousand years of being a Daemon Primarch. At that point any shred of non-brutality he might have had has been annihilated by the power of Khorne coursing through him.

He seems to be himself, except magnifiedr\ and perhaps a bit arrogant in his daemon form given how he taunted the Grey Knights.

He certainly seemed absolutely shocked when he actually lost to what he thought was just a puny astartes.

Where can I find this short story that is being referenced?