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 FlingitNow wrote:
The Daemon codex is clear on this. -5 to a minimum of 1. It is clear when this is applied. MLs will work up from bs1. 2 MLs make you Bs3.

So then the codex says after it is applied its suddenly - 2? No, it says minus 5 to a minimum of one and it remains -5 until the next turn. If you are reduced.to one that is.the minimum stated but you are still under a minus 5 penalty, therefore if you increase it the - 5 will still be in effect and reduce it. Honestly.though.as there is no clear ruling on this such as in warmahordes I would just roll the die if this occurred.

That's not what it says it says you are reduced by 5 to a minimum of 1. You stay at that value until the following turn. t gives you no permission to reduce below 1 and no permission to re activate the -5 when other modifiers come into effect.

Ah, so you are making up a new rule that states the modifier is a one time action?
The way the actual rules work is that you are bs(x-5,floor 1) further modifiers as per the rules would be applied in sequence, to derive a final answer

Think of the -5 as a debt just because you empty your account, hit 1, does not mean the debt goes away. You still owe the rest of it.

It gives you no permission to ignore the effect either. It's still there not a reactivation. You still have a -5 penalty it just stops lowering the score when you hit 1. The -5 is a constant just with a limitation of lowering it no lower than 1.

Im curious if this would fall under the "player who's turn it is decides" category.

No, because you are told how to apply modifiers and in which order

Yeah rereading the rule I agree that it takes 5 MLs to get to normal bs. "Until the start of the Masque's next shooting phase, the target unit suffers..." the penalty is applied through out the time.

Can't fire over watch so the argument is a mute point. That dance she has lowers the bs, and prevent over watch.

cowmonaut wrote:

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

 Tarrasq wrote:
A unit affected by the masque is always suffering the -5 BS while the rule is in effect. Just because you hit a cap does not mean the modifier goes away.

I agree with this.

I agree as well.

Masque is making you get -5 to your BS. FAQ says you can't reduce below 1, but nothing says the negative modifer itself is reduced. You'd have to pop off 5 Markerlights to use your normal BS.

Timing matters, which is why you fail at rules. Masques applies a -5 modifier with a limitation of BS 1; BS is set at 1 when the masques ability goes off. The Tau Shooting phase then happens and 2+ Markerlights are applied to the unit targeted. The unit effected by the masque then activate for shooting their BS is 1. After applying 3 marker light hits their BS is 4. Timing is everything.

This is known as a "Pulse effect"

An area effect is one that lists all models(or units) within the area of effect; and does not target any models/units. A pulse effect is what you are talking about.

No, timing doesn't matter. The dance does not set BS to 1. It applies a -5 modifier to it.
Read the rules for multiple modifiers Kel - you're wrong.

And I have literally no idea what you're referring to with "pulse effect" or any area effect with regard to this instance.

Timing doesn't matter in this case as the negative is still there. It does not in fact set your score to 1, it stops lowering it at 1. You still have to make up the difference.

Step 1. Take a cup and fill it with 5 fluid ounces of water.
Step 2. You must remove 5 fluid ounces from that cup but that cup cannot be left with less then 1 fluid ounce of water.
Step 3. You now add 2 fluid ounces of water to the cup.

Have you fulfilled step 2? No as 5 fluid ounces have not been taken out of the cup. There is no limitation put on Step 2 as to when the 5 must be removed just that it must be removed.

rigeld2 wrote:
No, timing doesn't matter. The dance does not set BS to 1. It applies a -5 modifier to it.
Read the rules for multiple modifiers Kel - you're wrong.

And I have literally no idea what you're referring to with "pulse effect" or any area effect with regard to this instance.

Multiple modifiers are rules for modifiers when they are applied.

In this instance 1 modifier is applied during the beginning of masque's shooting phase(-5 BS, to a minimum of 1 bs)

The models BS is now 1.

In the Tau shooting phase Markerlight tokens are used to increase BS by 1 per token(a new application of BS Modifiers) starting with the modified 1.

This is a "pulse effect" , an effect that occurs at the moment of casting.

An area, or lingering effect is one that sticks to the area in question, not the models within an area when casting. The BA Sanguinary Priest has an Area effect.

Can you give a page number that says you apply them in the order they were assigned to a model? There is nothing I can find in the modifiers section nor in the Dance rule that says you apply them in chronological order. If modifiers applied the way you are are asserting they are then the order given in the modifiers section would be irrelevant. As new modifiers are applied the score is readjusted, it is not set at the end of each stage. Applying the modifiers as you put forth would mean that I can bless my unit giving them +1 str (start of movement) then use power fists to double the new strength which we know is not how it works.

oh pulse effect, i like made up internet rules. -5 modifier is there till the masques next phase. The clause can't go less than 1 tells you how to deal with penalties that would take the BS to less than one, it does say don't apply the modifier again.

last I checked 3-5+3 = -2 (or 1 in game terms). So you are BS1 with 3 marker lights applied or BS1 with no marker light applied due to the BS1 clause. Who still plays the masque anyhow?

Kel - yet it states you are at -5BS through a full turn. So you have failed to comply with this, which is why you "fail at rules"

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
No, timing doesn't matter. The dance does not set BS to 1. It applies a -5 modifier to it.
Read the rules for multiple modifiers Kel - you're wrong.

And I have literally no idea what you're referring to with "pulse effect" or any area effect with regard to this instance.

Multiple modifiers are rules for modifiers when they are applied.

In this instance 1 modifier is applied during the beginning of masque's shooting phase(-5 BS, to a minimum of 1 bs)

The models BS is now 1.

In the Tau shooting phase Markerlight tokens are used to increase BS by 1 per token(a new application of BS Modifiers) starting with the modified 1.

This is a "pulse effect" , an effect that occurs at the moment of casting.

An area, or lingering effect is one that sticks to the area in question, not the models within an area when casting. The BA Sanguinary Priest has an Area effect.

So you've created rules out of whole cloth? Sure, in your made up rules whatever say is true is. That's not worth fighting.

Playing actual 40k using GWs rules you're completely wrong, however. The -5 comes into effect during Masque's shooting phase, but it sticks around - as a modifier - for a full turn.
<cut to 2 newscasters, one a Bloodletter, one a Tau, behind a desk>
What do we know about modifiers, Bob?
Well, Jim, we know that if you have different modifiers applying at the same time there's rules called Multiple Modifiers that tell you how to handle things!
<cut away>
Thanks Bob and Jim!

So assuming BS3, you subtract 5 and floor at 1. Oh, you're going to pop markerlights - I could not predict that!
3-5+2 floor 1 equals 1.