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 BryllCream wrote:
Ten internets to the person who can show me a wysiwyg asteopath with carapace armour

EDIT: In any case, Mann's advice is pretty good. If they don't have rules for it, it might be a good idea to let them know an issue has been raised, and that they might want to think about adding one in future.

That was funny Avatar720 -- those old bloodbowl figs had SOOOO much character!!

who has all the parts to make any chaos hq wysiwig. as soon as you get a chaos boon, it goes out the window.

I don't expect anyone to make a switch-hitter model for every possible combination their Chaos characters can wind up with. WYSIWYG, to me, just means modeling all the equipment and options the model was selected with.

I've only run into one person at a tourney who didn't have his models WYSIWYG. He didn't have any gun drones to go in his Tau vehicles, which he had bought secondhand. I still let him play with the models, but told him he was just going to have to run them as though they didn't have any weapons. He didn't challenge me on that, so that's what we did. I always make sure my models are three color quality and WYSIWYG before a tournament, and I should hope other people will too.

As far as I'm concerned, you cannot take options on a mini that you didn't model, in a tourney. And if you didn't pay for the options the mini DOES show, then the mini just doesn't have them. Just my opinion, of course.

...and when I assaulted them , I got my butt handed back...

That's just plain wrong. It almost sounds intentional on his part.

This is how i feel on the topic. I am in the military and have a family. If i can find time to WYSIWYG my army and paint it to my sad level of table top quality... then anyone can. Anything short of that if disrespectful and offensive to the hobby.

That's something I've noticed is fairly common, actually. Players who are older, with families, full-time jobs, and other demands on their time seem to be (99%+ of the time) able to budget time to fully paint and model their forces. The guys making excuses that they have no time to do so are usually younger, without kids and families eating their time.

I had a game where I was playing an ork player who had about 6 trukks. 2 of his trukks had rokkits, and I had assumed they were WYSIWYG so when I saw BS trukks, I assumed the rokkits were somewhere on the table.

I pull my BW right up close to one of his trukks assuming his BS str 5 will do nothing next turn. Uh oh, suddenly it is a rokkit! Then the excuses begin flowing... "the kit doesn't have rokkits, you should have asked, I don't have to disclose, blah blah blah."

The game basically became 'ruined' because either we allow him to play how he wants where he now gets to destroy my BW (which I wouldn't have made the move if I had known) or he now is at a disadvantage because he made moves expecting rokkits.

Either way, one side feels cheated and will whine about sportsmanship. The difference is, that one of us came to an event, unprepared and wanted to bend/break/change the rules of the event.

Also, Overmodeling is a problem. Giving models gear they don't have is an issue. If you plan on going to a tourney, have your stuff in order.

So wait..... you assaulted space wolves with tactical marines and thought they wouldnt have a bunch of attacks? sounds like poor planning.

nkelsch wrote:
Then the excuses begin flowing... "the kit doesn't have rokkits, you should have asked, I don't have to disclose, blah blah blah."

Next time, point out that almost every other ork kit comes with rokkits. Nobz, Loota/Burnas, Kanz, Deffdreads, Boyz, Deffkoptaz and more all have Rokkits in the kits.

The Ork Bomma (if built as a Dakkajet) will leave you with a few huge bombs and 6 rokkitz. If an Ork player can't make a wysiwyg army he chose the wrong faction to play.

playedsincedaemonhunters wrote:
So wait..... you assaulted space wolves with tactical marines and thought they wouldnt have a bunch of attacks? sounds like poor planning.

What does that have to do with a discussion about WYSIWYG?

nkelsch wrote:
I had a game where I was playing an ork player who had about 6 trukks. 2 of his trukks had rokkits, and I had assumed they were WYSIWYG so when I saw BS trukks, I assumed the rokkits were somewhere on the table.

I pull my BW right up close to one of his trukks assuming his BS str 5 will do nothing next turn. Uh oh, suddenly it is a rokkit! Then the excuses begin flowing... "the kit doesn't have rokkits, you should have asked, I don't have to disclose, blah blah blah."

The game basically became 'ruined' because either we allow him to play how he wants where he now gets to destroy my BW (which I wouldn't have made the move if I had known) or he now is at a disadvantage because he made moves expecting rokkits.

Either way, one side feels cheated and will whine about sportsmanship. The difference is, that one of us came to an event, unprepared and wanted to bend/break/change the rules of the event.

Also, Overmodeling is a problem. Giving models gear they don't have is an issue. If you plan on going to a tourney, have your stuff in order.

Did you have a look at his army list? Remember it's your right to fully view the army list in 40k. And: overmodeling violates WYSIWYG as well

 Mannahnin wrote:

playedsincedaemonhunters wrote:
So wait..... you assaulted space wolves with tactical marines and thought they wouldnt have a bunch of attacks? sounds like poor planning.

What does that have to do with a discussion about WYSIWYG?

because he said that he assaulted a unit of space wolves and didnt know there equipped with bolt pistol, ccw and have counter attack. regardless of what the opponent modelled his guys with tournament goers should know space wolves are cc specialists. even long fangs have 2 attacks round 1

If it is a WYSIWYG tournament, then everyone is expected to be WYSIWYG. It was so this player should have been WYSIWYG. No exceptions.

I like WYSIWYG in concept, certainly. For those of you arguing for it, though, what is your solution to Harlequins? There's 2 Kisses per box, no Kiss for a Shadowseer, and no Kiss+Fusion Pistol combo.

playedsincedaemonhunters wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:

playedsincedaemonhunters wrote:
So wait..... you assaulted space wolves with tactical marines and thought they wouldnt have a bunch of attacks? sounds like poor planning.

What does that have to do with a discussion about WYSIWYG?

because he said that he assaulted a unit of space wolves and didnt know there equipped with bolt pistol, ccw and have counter attack. regardless of what the opponent modelled his guys with tournament goers should know space wolves are cc specialists. even long fangs have 2 attacks round 1

Space Wolves bring all of their toys to the fight. In my 2 and a half years of 40k playing, "Standard" equipment has never been "needed" when modeling. My tactical marines have bolt pistols and Bolters, yet all of them are holding Boltguns. The WYSIWYG comes into play when my marine with a rocket launcher suddenly has a Lascannon... Or was I taught how to WYSIWYG incorrectly?

Granted I faced an issue a few weeks ago where I had to drop out of a tournament because my Chaos Marines which are and always have been used as Plague Marines were told they couldn't worship nurgle anymore because they weren't plague Marines . The Oblits as Chaos Spawn (in the middle of converting and what not) I was expecting to get the no go on...

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I'm considering taking part in a fairly large tournament in Auckland next year, but I was wondering what to expect for WYSIWYG.

For example, I want to take one unit of Chaos Cultists. I was thinking 20 models with Autopistol and CCW and perhaps two Flamers.

However, I have a mix of Necromunda Goliaths and Dark Vengence Cultists. Do you think some having odd shotguns and lasguns would still be okay as the unit is all the same rules-wise?

Using the Heavy Stubbers as Flamers would be too far, right?

Sounds like fun. You can always go through the list at the beginning, and note "these are cultists. All have counts as autopistol and CCW, and these two here are flamers" They're clearly not marines, demons, or something else, so it shouldn't be an issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Quark wrote:
I like WYSIWYG in concept, certainly. For those of you arguing for it, though, what is your solution to Harlequins? There's 2 Kisses per box, no Kiss for a Shadowseer, and no Kiss+Fusion Pistol combo.

Make more. Whats the problem?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I'm considering taking part in a fairly large tournament in Auckland next year, but I was wondering what to expect for WYSIWYG.

For example, I want to take one unit of Chaos Cultists. I was thinking 20 models with Autopistol and CCW and perhaps two Flamers.

However, I have a mix of Necromunda Goliaths and Dark Vengence Cultists. Do you think some having odd shotguns and lasguns would still be okay as the unit is all the same rules-wise?

Using the Heavy Stubbers as Flamers would be too far, right?

Sounds like fun. You can always go through the list at the beginning, and note "these are cultists. All have counts as autopistol and CCW, and these two here are flamers" They're clearly not marines, demons, or something else, so it shouldn't be an issue.

The basic GW Cultist models aren't even WYSIWYG. There are guys with shotguns, rifles, axes, swords, and no one has any issue when I say, "basic squad of cultists, no upgrades."

Granted, most of the time my cultists live until near the end of the game when they get slaughtered by something that has made it to my back field (Though they did pile on enough attacks to take out Eldrad their last game )

 Alfndrate wrote:


The basic GW Cultist models aren't even WYSIWYG. There are guys with shotguns, rifles, axes, swords, and no one has any issue when I say, "basic squad of cultists, no upgrades."

Granted, most of the time my cultists live until near the end of the game when they get slaughtered by something that has made it to my back field (Though they did pile on enough attacks to take out Eldrad their last game )

But like ork boys... they have the option to be shoota or choppa/slugga. And you cannot use an AoBR to say 'these are shootas' or overmodel by putting shootas on all of them to say they have both.

So for some units, the simple act of having the correct 'shooting' or 'pistol/ccw' is more than basic equipment and needs to be visually distinct.

nkelsch wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:


The basic GW Cultist models aren't even WYSIWYG. There are guys with shotguns, rifles, axes, swords, and no one has any issue when I say, "basic squad of cultists, no upgrades."

Granted, most of the time my cultists live until near the end of the game when they get slaughtered by something that has made it to my back field (Though they did pile on enough attacks to take out Eldrad their last game )

But like ork boys... they have the option to be shoota or choppa/slugga. And you cannot use an AoBR to say 'these are shootas' or overmodel by putting shootas on all of them to say they have both.

So for some units, the simple act of having the correct 'shooting' or 'pistol/ccw' is more than basic equipment and needs to be visually distinct.

I'm not 100% sure of what you're saying. There are no multi-part Chaos Cultists models available for sale, so for me to have an official Chaos Cultist model, I can't be WYSIWYG. The Chaos Cultists Box Says it contains 10 components and 5 25mm bases which make 5 cultists. These are the same snap together models that come in DV (I know cause I bought DV and my parents gifted me one of these boxes). So these models if you look at the image below (or in the link), I have 5 cultists and neither of them allow me to be all Autopistols and CCW or w/e their rifle upgrade is.


So what do I do in this case?

 Alfndrate wrote:


I'm not 100% sure of what you're saying. There are no multi-part Chaos Cultists models available for sale, so for me to have an official Chaos Cultist model, I can't be WYSIWYG. The Chaos Cultists Box Says it contains 10 components and 5 25mm bases which make 5 cultists. These are the same snap together models that come in DV (I know cause I bought DV and my parents gifted me one of these boxes). So these models if you look at the image below (or in the link), I have 5 cultists and neither of them allow me to be all Autopistols and CCW or w/e their rifle upgrade is.


So what do I do in this case?

Buy more, split them into two groups, have two units with correct wargear.

It is capable of being WYSIWYG, what you are claiming is you don't have to be WYSIWYG because they didn't give you a full functional single unit out of the box.

It is possible to have WYSWIYG cultists, it just takes more work. Pretty sure DV allows for 10 CCW cultists and 10shooty cultists. That doesn't mean you are entitled to a single unit of 20 cultists whatever whim you feel like having that day.

You can trade your unwanted cultists, you can buy 3rd party kits to convert the arms to all one type. You can buy stand-in models. There are lots of options.

If you have more than 1 unit of cultist, it is especially important for them to be WYSIWYG.

I will have to double check my DV contents, I'm fairly certain I don't have enough of either to make 1 unit of auto pistol and ccw and 1 unit of autoguns. I will of course double check.

Ah that is a bit of a problem, if there are two different options.

 Alfndrate wrote:
I will have to double check my DV contents, I'm fairly certain I don't have enough of either to make 1 unit of auto pistol and ccw and 1 unit of autoguns. I will of course double check.

They come with two units of 10.

8 CCW
8 Shooty
1 Stubba
1 Flamer
2 Boss guys

So it makes two units of 10, One with all shooty, one with all CCW.

The 10$ box is a 'booster' which just duplicates models, which of course leaves people growing two distinct units of cultists. Personally, I would get 3rd party arms to convert them, but I am an ork player who is used to being forced to convert.

Most people will be ok with: "I have 1 unit of cultists, they all follow these stats" but as soon as you have multiple units or units with different weapons, it can become an issue. But in regards to WYSIWYG, it is possible, just possibly requiring you to buy a and maintain two cultist units to get 1.

 Frazzled wrote:
Ah that is a bit of a problem, if there are two different options.

Chaos Cultists have some options, and everything I'm reading about the Dark Vengeance set says I should have gotten 2 units, 10 auto pistol and ccw, and 10 autoguns. My case at home and what I remember assembling says something different. It's also a case that to get 10 Chaos Cultists with auto pistols and ccw, I'm required to buy 5 of the Chaos Cultists boxes that I linked earlier as there is no multipart plastic kit.

I have no problem double checking this when I get home, I'm simply saying that in what I remember assembling I had a pretty even mix without being able to make a unit of 10 each.


Edit: FWIW, my cultists on my list are all basic with autopistol and ccw, my opponents know this because my list doesn't deviate much if at all... And 100% of the time, they're not leaving the backfield near my objectives .

I got no problem being wrong in this, I'm just fairly certain my DV set is fethed up

You can go to the GW website. It shows the 2 units. 8 dudes, 1 heavy weapon, 1 'bossman' = 10 man unit.

One Shooty, one CCW

nkelsch wrote:
You can go to the GW website. It shows the 2 units. 8 dudes, 1 heavy weapon, 1 'bossman' = 10 man unit.

One Shooty, one CCW

I'm not arguing that at all! (Note: the part where I said, "everything I'm reading about the Dark Vengeance set says I should have gotten 2 units, 10 auto pistol and ccw, and 10 autoguns [cultists]"). I'm saying what I've been saying, the models I remember assembling were a mix of both, and not enough to make a 10 man unit of ccw cultists and 10 ranged cultists. I did say, multiple times, that I would check when I get home, and that I have no problem being wrong about this. If it turns out that I have enough for 10 man units of each, then I'll look at picking up 10 more ccw cultists so that I can actually play with what my list says I'm playing with. There's not need to spell it out twice when I've clearly acknowledged a difference in what I should should have gotten and what I'm fairly certain I did get. Calm down there boy-o

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Ah that is a bit of a problem, if there are two different options.

Chaos Cultists have some options, and everything I'm reading about the Dark Vengeance set says I should have gotten 2 units, 10 auto pistol and ccw, and 10 autoguns. My case at home and what I remember assembling says something different. It's also a case that to get 10 Chaos Cultists with auto pistols and ccw, I'm required to buy 5 of the Chaos Cultists boxes that I linked earlier as there is no multipart plastic kit.

I have no problem double checking this when I get home, I'm simply saying that in what I remember assembling I had a pretty even mix without being able to make a unit of 10 each.


Edit: FWIW, my cultists on my list are all basic with autopistol and ccw, my opponents know this because my list doesn't deviate much if at all... And 100% of the time, they're not leaving the backfield near my objectives .

I got no problem being wrong in this, I'm just fairly certain my DV set is fethed up

have you already asseembled them? This screams job oppoprtunity for some arms and magnets.

 Frazzled wrote:
have you already asseembled them? This screams job oppoprtunity for some arms and magnets.

I have indeed assembled them as they are snap together, and were put together in preparation for a 40k game about a month ago. and I wouldn't have any need for magnets as I don't want to be paying for autogun upgrades on my Cultists as I want them as cheap as possible to hold my home objectives.

As noted, if you just have one unit and clearly state it at the beginning I doubt anyone will care. Dude they're cultists...