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2013/05/15 09:35:14
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Holder backpedaled on that after Paul filibustered on it, because it is in fact illegal for the President to use the military in an offensive manner on U.S. soil, posse comitatus is still a thing. Scary that Holder's the head of the justice department and he doesn't know gak you're supposed to learn in civics class isn't it?
But yes from a freedom's perspective I can't blame ANY ONE for being suspicious of the U.S. Government given what's happened in this country since 9/11, the bills that ALWAYS make it through the Congress with nary a whisper are bills that hurt the people, the Patriot Act, all of the clusterfeth that is the DHS and TSA, the NDAA's indefinite detention provision, the list goes on and if you're not concerned you're not paying attention.
Your forefathers rebelled against he British for a lot less.
Nothing seems to change in Washington. It's almost as if they get together every four years and decide on a new face.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2013/05/16 02:07:58
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
“It was a very large number of records that were obtained, including phone records from Hartford, New York, Washington, from the U.S. House of Representatives and elsewhere where AP has bureaus. It included home and cellphone numbers from a number of AP reporters,” Schulz says.
If true... and this is a huge if...
DoJ is going to get hammered.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/05/16 02:25:47
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Holder backpedaled on that after Paul filibustered on it, because it is in fact illegal for the President to use the military in an offensive manner on U.S. soil, posse comitatus is still a thing. Scary that Holder's the head of the justice department and he doesn't know gak you're supposed to learn in civics class isn't it?
But yes from a freedom's perspective I can't blame ANY ONE for being suspicious of the U.S. Government given what's happened in this country since 9/11, the bills that ALWAYS make it through the Congress with nary a whisper are bills that hurt the people, the Patriot Act, all of the clusterfeth that is the DHS and TSA, the NDAA's indefinite detention provision, the list goes on and if you're not concerned you're not paying attention.
Your forefathers rebelled against he British for a lot less.
Nothing seems to change in Washington. It's almost as if they get together every four years and decide on a new face.
Not my forefathers in particular, we were in Ireland and Germany respectively till the early 20th century, but yes. It's... disturbing to say the least. The status in Washington is clearly changing from civil service to power preservation and control.
Oligarchy folks.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Not my forefathers in particular, we were in Ireland and Germany respectively till the early 20th century, but yes. It's... disturbing to say the least. The status in Washington is clearly changing from civil service to power preservation and control.
Oligarchy folks.
Hyperbole much?
The line being pushed right now is that "this was an attempt to locate individuals who were talking to the media about sensitive matters".
If you can't come out and say something for reasons such as operational security(or to a more common extent: you don't want your name associated with an event when it has already blown up in your face); you really have no business saying it to the media.
2013/05/16 04:14:41
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
Obama playing Dodgeball inside a phone booth for this week
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
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Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2013/05/16 05:54:43
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
Kanluwen wrote: The line being pushed right now is that "this was an attempt to locate individuals who were talking to the media about sensitive matters".
If you can't come out and say something for reasons such as operational security(or to a more common extent: you don't want your name associated with an event when it has already blown up in your face); you really have no business saying it to the media.
I realise that defending evil empires is pretty much your schtick, but you don't know what you're talking about. Look at John Kiriakou: he was persecuted, prosecuted and sentenced for telling the media that the CIA was torturing people. If you want to protect the operational security of people committing crimes against humanity, you are a horrible person. Or Bradley Manning: if you don't want people to know you're committing war crimes, don't commit war crimes! Don't fething murder civilians in cold blood for attempting to give first aid to injured journalists.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2013/05/16 06:06:55
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
Kanluwen wrote: The line being pushed right now is that "this was an attempt to locate individuals who were talking to the media about sensitive matters".
If you can't come out and say something for reasons such as operational security(or to a more common extent: you don't want your name associated with an event when it has already blown up in your face); you really have no business saying it to the media.
I realise that defending evil empires is pretty much your schtick, but you don't know what you're talking about. Look at John Kiriakou: he was persecuted, prosecuted and sentenced for telling the media that the CIA was torturing people. If you want to protect the operational security of people committing crimes against humanity, you are a horrible person. Or Bradley Manning: if you don't want people to know you're committing war crimes, don't commit war crimes! Don't fething murder civilians in cold blood for attempting to give first aid to injured journalists.
Dang Alex, QFT man.
I didn't notice any threads pointing out the fact DHS is buying 1.6 billion rounds of hollow point ammunition. (The expensive, made to kill a man kinda ammo thats too expensive to use as target practice.) So I'll point it out here, kinda a few months old news though.
Do_I_Not_Like_That is right when he says our forefathers would of been shooting by now. When 1/3 of your hard earned pay check is taken away for un represented taxes its liable to make men angry. Atleast our forefathers knew why they had to pay taxes, England went to war with France for us, we were just to cheap to pay them back. (Jokes! Jokes!!)
d-usa wrote: If you haven't seen those, then your search skills suck.
Been debated to death here, multiple times.
Dang d-usa I'll have to file a law suit against you for emotional trama. I went to collage to improve my search skills and you just had to break me down. OH, The emotional trama!
I need quick money to pay off the student loans I acquired while attending google search school
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/16 06:47:30
The status in Washington is clearly changing from civil service to power preservation and control.
Political bodies are always trying to preserve their power, ironically because if they lose power they lose the ability to fulfill their function. Washington's agenda has always been power preservation because it is in the nature of governments to try and preserve/expand power. This does not exclude them from being civil servants (stupidity does that just fine).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/16 07:01:18
I never cared that much for guns in America, but in the last few years since I started studying American history and politics, I'm thinking maybe the pro-gun side have a point.
I mean, Obama has pretty much given himself the right to assassinate anybody he wants, the patriot act seems to have dumped the brown stuff all over civil liberties, and if recent events with associated press are anything to go by, it's going to get worse.
From a historical perspective :p should this be a surprise?
I was reading that the Klu Klux Klan were the first to push for gun control (they weren't happy at African American veterans from the civil war walking around with guns) and that in the 1960s Ronald Regan of all people did some gun control stuff in California! I thought the guy was a American hero
In the 1990s, Bill Clinton went to town against habeas corpus after Oklahoma and Waco, and Bush...well
Anyway, so yeah, maybe pro-gunners have a point, especially considering the forces their government can deploy against them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/16 12:27:00
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2013/05/16 13:55:47
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
Kanluwen wrote: The line being pushed right now is that "this was an attempt to locate individuals who were talking to the media about sensitive matters".
If you can't come out and say something for reasons such as operational security(or to a more common extent: you don't want your name associated with an event when it has already blown up in your face); you really have no business saying it to the media.
I realise that defending evil empires is pretty much your schtick, but you don't know what you're talking about. Look at John Kiriakou: he was persecuted, prosecuted and sentenced for telling the media that the CIA was torturing people. If you want to protect the operational security of people committing crimes against humanity, you are a horrible person. Or Bradley Manning: if you don't want people to know you're committing war crimes, don't commit war crimes! Don't fething murder civilians in cold blood for attempting to give first aid to injured journalists.
There is a very large difference between whistle blowing and Bradley Manning.
Bradley Manning was a chump who started leaking documents; later claiming "an attack of conscience" after he got caught.
2013/05/16 14:07:25
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
LuciusAR wrote: As an outsider it still amazes me that the American public allowed the Patriot act.
Newsflash: a lot of the American public are amazed as well!
They wanted action after 9/11 but most people didn't imagine they'd try and cure the headache by cutting off the head.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2013/05/16 15:22:26
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
Kanluwen wrote: The line being pushed right now is that "this was an attempt to locate individuals who were talking to the media about sensitive matters".
If you can't come out and say something for reasons such as operational security(or to a more common extent: you don't want your name associated with an event when it has already blown up in your face); you really have no business saying it to the media.
I realise that defending evil empires is pretty much your schtick, but you don't know what you're talking about. Look at John Kiriakou: he was persecuted, prosecuted and sentenced for telling the media that the CIA was torturing people. If you want to protect the operational security of people committing crimes against humanity, you are a horrible person. Or Bradley Manning: if you don't want people to know you're committing war crimes, don't commit war crimes! Don't fething murder civilians in cold blood for attempting to give first aid to injured journalists.
There is a very large difference between whistle blowing and Bradley Manning.
Bradley Manning was a chump who started leaking documents; later claiming "an attack of conscience" after he got caught.
Yeah, please don't give Bradely Manning for having any sort of a spine or courage. Whistle blowing's a tough thing to do, and depending on how it's done is absolutely can and will bite you in the arse, but Manning was and is just a loser.
Yeah no I'm shocked Bush didn't get strung up by the ankles in the public square along with the entire membership of congress for the Patriot Act.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
LuciusAR wrote:As an outsider it still amazes me that the American public allowed the Patriot act.
They didn't have a choice. The senate allegedly voted on it without reading it; it was a document that was so labyrinthine that it was nearly impossible to make sense of, and it had a name that made everyone shout "Murica! Feth yeah!". It was drafted out of fear, and voted on out of fear, without a second thought. There was no part of the legislative process surrounding the Patriot Act that did not let the American public down.
2013/05/16 15:56:40
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
LuciusAR wrote:As an outsider it still amazes me that the American public allowed the Patriot act.
They didn't have a choice. The senate allegedly voted on it without reading it; it was a document that was so labyrinthine that it was nearly impossible to make sense of, and it had a name that made everyone shout "Murica! Feth yeah!". It was drafted out of fear, and voted on out of fear, without a second thought. There was no part of the legislative process surrounding the Patriot Act that did not let the American public down.
As a non citizen of the USA (note how I said USA and not American in case you replied I'm a North America ) you may not be able to answer this, but if the act is so bad, how come the supreme court haven't struck it down yet? I thought they loved striking down acts of congress?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2013/05/16 16:08:05
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
LuciusAR wrote:As an outsider it still amazes me that the American public allowed the Patriot act.
They didn't have a choice. The senate allegedly voted on it without reading it; it was a document that was so labyrinthine that it was nearly impossible to make sense of, and it had a name that made everyone shout "Murica! Feth yeah!". It was drafted out of fear, and voted on out of fear, without a second thought. There was no part of the legislative process surrounding the Patriot Act that did not let the American public down.
As a non citizen of the USA (note how I said USA and not American in case you replied I'm a North America ) you may not be able to answer this, but if the act is so bad, how come the supreme court haven't struck it down yet? I thought they loved striking down acts of congress?
EDIT: however, the supreme court cannot simply strike down an Act because it is a terrible piece of legislation -there must be a legal precedent for it, such as its violation of constitutional rights (lots of that in the Patriot Act). In fact, some elements of it were such insane violations of privacy that Canada had to draft its own legislation in order to protect Canadian citizens from having their rights violated.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/16 16:11:03
2013/05/16 16:10:27
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
LuciusAR wrote:As an outsider it still amazes me that the American public allowed the Patriot act.
They didn't have a choice. The senate allegedly voted on it without reading it; it was a document that was so labyrinthine that it was nearly impossible to make sense of, and it had a name that made everyone shout "Murica! Feth yeah!". It was drafted out of fear, and voted on out of fear, without a second thought. There was no part of the legislative process surrounding the Patriot Act that did not let the American public down.
Irony is thy name my good friend.
(in reference to Obamacare)
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/05/16 16:12:26
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
LuciusAR wrote:As an outsider it still amazes me that the American public allowed the Patriot act.
They didn't have a choice. The senate allegedly voted on it without reading it; it was a document that was so labyrinthine that it was nearly impossible to make sense of, and it had a name that made everyone shout "Murica! Feth yeah!". It was drafted out of fear, and voted on out of fear, without a second thought. There was no part of the legislative process surrounding the Patriot Act that did not let the American public down.
Irony is thy name my good friend.
(in reference to Obamacare)
That's not irony.
I did not draft the ACA.
2013/05/16 16:27:54
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
LuciusAR wrote:As an outsider it still amazes me that the American public allowed the Patriot act.
They didn't have a choice. The senate allegedly voted on it without reading it; it was a document that was so labyrinthine that it was nearly impossible to make sense of, and it had a name that made everyone shout "Murica! Feth yeah!". It was drafted out of fear, and voted on out of fear, without a second thought. There was no part of the legislative process surrounding the Patriot Act that did not let the American public down.
Irony is thy name my good friend.
(in reference to Obamacare)
That's not irony.
I did not draft the ACA.
Heh... my logic must be ration'ed at the moment, like they ration Healthcare in Canada.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wanted to post an update...
The DOJ admitted to obtaining call records from a phone used by the AP in the House press gallery, which is … different from tapping a room used by congressmen to talk shop.
It's still a concern... but Nunes was sloppy here IMO.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/16 20:20:01
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/05/20 17:49:31
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
Former Obama-administration press secretary Robert Gibbs said the DOJ has not provided enough of an explanation for its seizure of Associated Press reporters’ phone records, and that “the onus clearly on the Justice Department” to provide a clear explanation.
“Right now, we’ve sort of been struck by the fact that nobody’s explained why you needed such a broad subpoena, why so many people’s records were subpoenaed,” Gibbs said on Morning Joe today. “I know it’s difficult in the middle of an investigation, but I think, quite frankly, it’s something that’s sort of largely owed to the American people.”
EDIT:
Given the cooperation shown by the AP after the leak, these violations are not just puzzling but arguably unconscionable.
They are very obviously meant to be punitive and intimidating, attempting to scare one of the largest news agencies from probing the Obama administration too closely and warning potential sources that they cannot expect protection from any news agency.
After all, if the Obama administration can do this to the AP, they’re not likely to shy away from doing it to any other organization.
And that's why all the usual media folks are protecting their own.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well... this is gaining steam. I mentioned in the IRS thread that this may not be as big of a deal.
However, evidently 3 foxnews journalist were apparently targeted by the DoJ.
If James Rosen, William La Jeunesse, and Mike Levine are "co-conspirators", as officially designated as such by the apparatus of the State for talking to a government source, then which reporters in Washington are NOT also "co-conspirators"?
Is it a surprise that Sharyl Attkisson may have been targetd too?
If it can be proven (which is really, really hard to prove that)... that bodes REALLY bad for the DoJ.
Via the Chris Stigall Show and WPHT in Philadelphia. Two weeks ago, this wouldn’t have been worth posting; Attkisson herself, I suspect, wouldn’t have mentioned it publicly. Even if she’s right about something fishy going on, there are other plausible culprits besides the U.S. government when it comes to reporters’ computers being infiltrated. Two weeks later, though, knowing now that the DOJ was willing to order a dragnet of AP reporters’ phone records and actually read James Rosen’s e-mails, there’s no way around the obvious suspicion. If the feds were willing to monitor Rosen and the AP in the name of cracking down on leakers, why wouldn’t they monitor the one reporter from non-Fox big media who’s done more digging on Fast and Furious and Benghazi than anyone else?
Attkisson told Laura Ingraham in October 2011 that a White House official had screamed and cursed at her for her reporting. The DOJ wasn’t happy either:
I’m certainly not the one to make the case for DOJ and White House about what I’m doing wrong. They will tell you that I’m the only reporter–as they told me–that is not reasonable. They say the Washington Post is reasonable, the LA Times is reasonable, the New York Times is reasonable, I’m the only one who thinks this is a story, and they think I’m unfair and biased by pursuing it.
Which government sources were aiding and abetting this “unreasonable” reporter? There was one obvious way to find out. Any comment, DOJ?
Here’s the clip. The full Stigall podcast can be found here. Obvious exit question: Whether Attkisson was monitored or not, it can’t be just the AP and Rosen whom the feds have snooped on in four years. How many other reporters?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/21 16:54:29
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/05/21 21:13:42
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
Jihadin wrote: Obama playing Dodgeball inside a phone booth for this week
What a great visual.
Well guys, he said he'd have more flexibility after the election. Now you know what he meant!
All joking aside, I think it's time for Congress to do their job and start exercising their oversight powers.
All the facts aren't out yet about either of those things, so I will withhold my final opinion, but the IRS thing smells more and more every day, and now this. This looks pretty damn bad imo, very much the imperial presidency.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2013/05/22 04:24:55
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
Shannon Bream just reported on Hannity that court records appear to reflect phone records were obtained for multiple Fox News lines at multiple locations. The records were partially redacted, but the area codes and exchanges match up.
Shannon Bream ✔ @ShannonBream
I'll join @SeanHannity in minutes - with latest on govt's probe into @FoxNews employee/office records/phones
7:59 PM - 21 May 2013
Newly uncovered court documents show the Justice Department seized phone records associated with several Fox News lines as part of a leak investigation — a revelation that comes as the White House Correspondents’ Association spoke out against the administration’s monitoring of reporters.
Documents from October 2011 appear to show exchanges that match the specific locations of Fox News’ White House, Pentagon, State Department and other operations. The last four digits of each of the phone numbers listed are redacted in the government filing so it is impossible to know the full numbers.
The Obama Justice Department has seized the phone records of numbers that are associated with White House staffers and, apparently, with Fox News reporters, according to a document filed in the case of Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, on October 13, 2011. Kim is a former State Department contractor accused of violating the Espionage Act for allegedly leaking classified information to James Rosen, a Fox News reporter. Ronald C. Machen, Jr., the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, who is prosecuting the case, has seized records associated with two phone numbers at the White House, at least five numbers associated with Fox News, and one that has the same area code and exchange as Rosen’s personal-cell-phone number (the last four numbers are redacted).
Wow. So thats two news organizations that were targeted. Is their a judge involved? He should have to report to Congress.
If there's no judge this is screamingly unconstitutional.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/05/22 11:51:10
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
) you may not be able to answer this, but if the act is so bad, how come the supreme court haven't struck it down yet? I thought they loved striking down acts of congress?
