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I like a lot of factions, this theme is one in a long line.

See, but Horus had personally butchered and had butchered countless guardsmen, Terminators, and Custodians.

I always thought Valdor fell to chaos. I remember reading some fluff about 'the honeyed words of Valdor'.

Specifically, when Russ goes to Prospero, Valdor helps Horus convince Russ to go in on the offensive, rather than peacefully taking Magnus to Terra.

Having read this thread - the fact it hasn't come up is now making me doubt this - is it old retconned fluff I'm remembering or did I have this wrong for years?

No mate, it's from Prospero Burns, but it's more Valdor forcing Russ's hand to act upon what Horus wants him to do.

From what we see of Russ trying to talk to Magnus through Hauser, he is a bit reluctant to go full cop on him, but I guess when Horus, who no one suspects at the minute, says to forget about taking him back to Terra Russ is still a bit dubious but as Horus is the voice of the Emperor, Valdor is like you must do as he says.

Edit: Oops, sorry, the quote is actually from A Thousand Sons

"He saw the honeyed words of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor, each spoken with very different purposes, but designed to sway Leman Russ towards a destination of total destruction." - A Thousand Sons, Page 535.

Cheers

Sinister urgings... Thats a phrase that doesn't seem to fit for a loyalist.

So Valdor is chaos.... errrr....custodian ???
Now seriosly - I think Valdor was hard-pissed because of webway deamonic incursion...I mean Custodians are older then primarchs and don't take kindly when someone/thing threatens Empy.....

PredaKhaine wrote:
Cheers

Sinister urgings... Thats a phrase that doesn't seem to fit for a loyalist.

Actually it does. It fits under the overused by me good is not nice-profile that maintains the IOM.

 DarthMarko wrote:
So Valdor is chaos.... errrr....custodian ???
Now seriosly - I think Valdor was hard-pissed because of webway deamonic incursion...I mean Custodians are older then primarchs and don't take kindly when someone/thing threatens Empy.....

So why were his urgings sinister?

I always took that to mean he was in Horus's pocket and that there was another betrayal on the way - from this thread I know I've read too much into it.
It just seems a strange turn of phrase to describe loyalist. I like the idea that anyone can turn

Even if it's daft in this context.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
Cheers

Sinister urgings... Thats a phrase that doesn't seem to fit for a loyalist.

Actually it does. It fits under the overused by me good is not nice-profile that maintains the IOM.

It makes more sense your way - there are no 'good' factions in 40k.

They can all be sinister

Thanks. I'm glad to hear that.

@predakhaine- Sinister is "sinister" towards TS-s...I don't know, like I said Magnus fething up a webway is probably why he pressed Russ to attack....But I like the idea...chaos custodian

I would rather go for a Thunder Warrior there. They were less perfect. The Custodians just are too perfect as they lack the flexibility of the Space Marines as they have completely sacrificed their humanity in order to become what they are and they work better as bodyguards than warriors.

There actually is a Thunderwarrior still kicking about, I forget his name but he was like the "primarch" of the Thunderwarriors, he supposedly "died" in the final unification battles of Terra, but he actually escaped and was last known to be uncodign gene seed so he could either

Live Forever (Thunderwarriors had low lifespans)
or
Make his own chapter (something I plan to do when the new C:SM comes out)

Thunder Warriors ain't Space Marines. They are related, but not enough that they can be intercharged, so I'm a bit unsure how they should manage to be with each other. I mean the Apotecary should rather soon just by a simple blood-test discern that it wasn't blood from a Space Marine in his vial when studying the blood just with his eyes as the Space Marines basically homo sapiens superior. And just stabbing wildly I guess the Thunder Warriors would be homo sapiens thunderis or something like that.

Crap I am wrong I just looked it up, he was Arik Tanaris, the book is Outcast Dead-

"Taranis encountered the Outcast Dead at the Temple of Woe, located within the slums of the Petitioner's City. There, the Outcast Dead were cornered by an Imperial hunter team that had been tracking them since their escape from their prison. During the ensuing battle the majority of the Astartes of the Outcast Dead were killed during the confrontation with the Imperial forces. But Taranis and his lieutenant within the Dhakal gang Ghota, another Thunder Warrior who had survived the Emperor's cull, took advantage of this distraction and managed to escape during the ensuing chaos. Somehow, Taranis managed to obtain the Progenoid Glands of one of the fallen Astartes. These organs contained the vital key needed to provide the means for Taranis to unlock the genetic secrets that would allow the surviving Thunder Warriors to extend their lives. Deep in the heart of the Petitioner's City Taranis experimented with his ill-gotten samples within his secret laboratory. Using gene-samplers he managed to extract the necessary information encoded within the Gland's stored zygotes of Astartes organs and the impossibly complex amino acid chains were decoded. Taranis unraveled the complexities of this biological miracle, and managed to replicate the process of its creation and clone a new set of Progenoid Glands from the original sample. It is assumed that Taranis had the new organs implanted within his and his lieutenant's body. Their whereabouts after the Horus Heresy remain unknown."

So I guess no marine chapter for him, but he is still alive..... maybe

Make a cool leader for a renegade faction though

You should rather invent your own Thunder Warrior, and nothing prevents him from getting to be a Planetary Governor or something like that.

The Custodes are extremely powerful so it would be easy for them to behave in a noble manner toward others. Instead they act like arseholes, so they are not a likeable group at all. They probably get their arrogance from the Emperor though since they were made from him.

I would say that since Horus killed the big E, that the custodes are an epic failure in the world of 40k. They only had one job and couldnt do it.

JWhex wrote:
The Custodes are extremely powerful so it would be easy for them to behave in a noble manner toward others. Instead they act like arseholes, so they are not a likeable group at all. They probably get their arrogance from the Emperor though since they were made from him.

I would say that since Horus killed the big E, that the custodes are an epic failure in the world of 40k. They only had one job and couldnt do it.

No, if anything their arrogance comes from their pride of the (relative) complete trust the Emperor has in them as well as being his personal bodyguards; an honour that no one ever really had.

Also to be fair when they teleported up to the Vengeful Spirit, Horus' flagship, they didn't exactly teleport altogether and it was made explicitly clear that they were scattered throughout the ship, having to fight through the various monstrosities and defenses of the ship to get back to the Emperor/Bridge. Plus at one point it was a Custodian that entered the room where Horus stood over a fallen Emperor who then charged without regard for his own safety out of duty and loyalty to him despite all the odds being against him so I would give them some slack, they did their job relatively well up to that point.

 Grimskul wrote:

JWhex wrote:
The Custodes are extremely powerful so it would be easy for them to behave in a noble manner toward others. Instead they act like arseholes, so they are not a likeable group at all. They probably get their arrogance from the Emperor though since they were made from him.

I would say that since Horus killed the big E, that the custodes are an epic failure in the world of 40k. They only had one job and couldnt do it.

No, if anything their arrogance comes from their pride of the (relative) complete trust the Emperor has in them as well as being his personal bodyguards; an honour that no one ever really had.

Also to be fair when they teleported up to the Vengeful Spirit, Horus' flagship, they didn't exactly teleport altogether and it was made explicitly clear that they were scattered throughout the ship, having to fight through the various monstrosities and defenses of the ship to get back to the Emperor/Bridge. Plus at one point it was a Custodian that entered the room where Horus stood over a fallen Emperor who then charged without regard for his own safety out of duty and loyalty to him despite all the odds being against him so I would give them some slack, they did their job relatively well up to that point.

What do you mean they did their job relatively well up to that point? What serious threat did they ever neutralize? Regardless of the excuses, they failed to protect the Emperor. It was the only thing they had to concern themselves with in their hundreds of years long life span and when it came to crunch time they failed.

It's not the winning, it's the taking part that counts.

JWhex wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

JWhex wrote:
The Custodes are extremely powerful so it would be easy for them to behave in a noble manner toward others. Instead they act like arseholes, so they are not a likeable group at all. They probably get their arrogance from the Emperor though since they were made from him.

I would say that since Horus killed the big E, that the custodes are an epic failure in the world of 40k. They only had one job and couldnt do it.

No, if anything their arrogance comes from their pride of the (relative) complete trust the Emperor has in them as well as being his personal bodyguards; an honour that no one ever really had.

Also to be fair when they teleported up to the Vengeful Spirit, Horus' flagship, they didn't exactly teleport altogether and it was made explicitly clear that they were scattered throughout the ship, having to fight through the various monstrosities and defenses of the ship to get back to the Emperor/Bridge. Plus at one point it was a Custodian that entered the room where Horus stood over a fallen Emperor who then charged without regard for his own safety out of duty and loyalty to him despite all the odds being against him so I would give them some slack, they did their job relatively well up to that point.

What do you mean they did their job relatively well up to that point? What serious threat did they ever neutralize? Regardless of the excuses, they failed to protect the Emperor. It was the only thing they had to concern themselves with in their hundreds of years long life span and when it came to crunch time they failed.

I meant well in the context of the Great Cruade because for example during the Battle of Gyros-Thravian against the dreaded Ork Warlord Gharkul Blackfang a massive contingent of 1000 Custodians alongside the Emperor charged in and singlehandedly saved THREE primarchs leading their forces against him which not only resulted in thousands of dead orks in return for only 3 dead Custodians but allowed the Emperor to confront and slay Blackfang. I'm not saying they didn't manage to save the Emperor but by and large in the one moment that counted they weren't able to bring their numbers to bear due to the situation which they had no control over (and can't exactly stop the Emperor from confronting Horus instead of just waiting till reinforcements arrived). I mean when even the Primarchs weren't able to save him I don't think the Custodians could've done much else.

huh...m he is quickly become a great point of interest in the 40k universe. Very little is known about him, but there is a massive amount of speculation placing him at great events through the heresy.
Now personally I want to use him in some of my fluff, and try to adhere to canon as much as I can.
I believe i'll have something like
"he was so fanatically loyal to the Emperor that he went far beyond his normal responsibilities to keep him safe"
so basically saying that he felt that standing next to the golden throne for years wouldent be as effective as say to leave terra and blow up outside threats that could POSSIBLY threaten the Emperor.
any radical objections or is this plausible?
like what kind of authority does a Custodes have? can he order the creation of a fleet of ships? command mortal armies?

 bu5jocky wrote:

like what kind of authority does a Custodes have? can he order the creation of a fleet of ships? command mortal armies?

Yes, check "Garro" audio drama...

Well in Garro, that limp-wristed Custodian who was buttmad about Garro kicking his ass in a sparring match (Hahahahahahaha what a loser) was given the authority to do so by the Sigillite.

I'd say it might be a situational sort of deal.

Also, Custodians of 30k are a bit different than the ones of 40k. In 30k, they actually left Terra as operatives, doing important work outside of the specialty of the Imperial Army or Adeptus Astartes. In 40k, they just guard the Emperor, IIRC.

The hate you have for the Custodes is shocking Void_Dragon!

It's weird, all the hate and bias people think I have for Space Wolves?

That's basically how I am concerning Custodians.

Amon seems okay though.

Back to OP's question, there is one more place that I think he could be. After all, Trazyn the Infinite has "A large man clad in Baroque power armor" as a part of his collection.

The custodians are the keystone cops of the 30th millenium.

In the Outcast Dead the custodians couldnt keep a few traitors locked up in the most secure gulag of the IoM.

Also in the book about the assasination attempt on Horus the one custodian, forget which one (valdor?) could not even infiltrate into one of the untamed areas of terra without getting shot out of the sky nearly killing himself and the assassin that was with him.

There was also the incident where a custodian was supposed to be guarding the bard or whatever he was of the space wolves during the Council of Nikea, and one of the 1k sons got the drop on him even though there was an entire contingent of the Sisters of Silence nearby.

In the first Heretic a whole band of custodians were duped by the Word Bearers for many, many years. They even bought into the story that a bunch of Cadian natives with sharp sticks killed one of their own, which I find to be very laughable.

JWhex wrote:
There was also the incident where a custodian was supposed to be guarding the bard or whatever he was of the space wolves during the Council of Nikea, and one of the 1k sons got the drop on him even though there was an entire contingent of the Sisters of Silence nearby.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

JWhex wrote:
There was also the incident where a custodian was supposed to be guarding the bard or whatever he was of the space wolves during the Council of Nikea, and one of the 1k sons got the drop on him even though there was an entire contingent of the Sisters of Silence nearby.

Spoiler:

That was a Daemon masquerading as a Thousand Son.

I geuss I need to read that part again, oh well, my point still holds up regardless.