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Looking forward to this, if nothing else for some variety. Also, of all periods and theaters of WWII, the early-war Pacific is the one I know the least about.

One thing - is the use of the term "Jap" considered derogatory if used to refer to the Japanese during WWII? Does it depend on the county of the speaker? I'm not trying to be smart (or a troll here), I really don't know. I'm in the USA and would be hesitant to use the term even when WWII gaming, but I tend to be overly careful on things like that.

Thanks!

Mez

I think "Jap" was a derogatory comment, started as more of a slang term, but it was used in negative connotations as well, so I think it became a negative word. I would always use the term Japanese because it is more formal and respectful and Jap is crude and insulting. It's the Same with say Pakistan. I would say "Pakistani" and not "Paki" because "Paki" is considered derogatory.

I think it was "nip" or many other terms that were also derogatory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment

 Mezmaron wrote:

Looking forward to this, if nothing else for some variety. Also, of all periods and theaters of WWII, the early-war Pacific is the one I know the least about.

One thing - is the use of the term "Jap" considered derogatory if used to refer to the Japanese during WWII? Does it depend on the county of the speaker? I'm not trying to be smart (or a troll here), I really don't know. I'm in the USA and would be hesitant to use the term even when WWII gaming, but I tend to be overly careful on things like that.

Thanks!

Mez

It was originally a derogatory comment, but now-a-days it's just another term. I have quite a few Japanese friends (my school has an exchange program with a city over there), and they use it to describe themselves sometimes haha. But, as with any term, there are people who will be offended by it so it might be better off just to say Japanese. In a gaming setting, I don't think too many people would mind nor care however. Just be aware of who you game with and how offended on things they can get

Winter war woot!

Simo Haya here we come!

Well the next WI just arrived so here's the ad blurb.

There's plenty of article space in this issue in Rising Sun, no time to add anything as I'm baby sitting. More later if I get time.

IIRC the Chinese had lots of early European tanks. Some of those will come in handy for other projects.

 George Spiggott wrote:
IIRC the Chinese had lots of early European tanks. Some of those will come in handy for other projects.

Quite a few.

I have some stuff on Chinese armies if anyone is interested... Quite an eclectic mix of things.

Are they re-armed SdKfz 222s? I know the (one of?) elite Chinese forces were trained by the Germans.

Not sure they were trained by the Germans... Not much you would term Elite in the Nationalist army... Perhaps the odd advisor or two.

Big P wrote:
Not sure they were trained by the Germans... Not much you would term Elite in the Nationalist army... Perhaps the odd advisor or two.

It's a relative term I suppose, 'better' may be a more appropriate term.

During the last years of the German Military Mission to China, an agreement was reached whereby Germany was obliged to train 20 infantry divisions by 1937/1938; the whole Chinese army, navy and air force by the early 1940's. However, by the time of the Japanese invasion of 1937, only eight divisions were fully trained by the Germans. Among those trained were the 83rd, 87th and 88th Infantry Divisions. Allegedly, Chiang Kai-Shek's favorite was the 83rd.

http://www.feldgrau.com/articles.php?ID=11

The Germans had,at the height in 1935, 70 advisors in Chine with the military mission under von Seekt.

They 'trained' eight divisions, but I think we need to consider what this would have involved. Certainly some degree of operational commandand control, perhaps battalion and regimental tactics, but other than the 83rd, 87th and 88th, Im not convinced they were trained to what we might call a European standard but they certainly seemed to have performed better though they were largely held as a reserve.

Im just working my through Philip Jowlett's book 'Soldiers of the White Sun'. Remarkable book, packed full of photos of this under studied army.

Big P wrote:
They 'trained' eight divisions, but I think we need to consider what this would have involved.

Are you searching for some specific, technical definition of trained that doesn't exist. Less thoroughly trained then the German army would still constitute being trained.

I'm just working my through Philip Jowlett's book 'Soldiers of the White Sun'. Remarkable book, packed full of photos of this under studied army.

I've got his Osprey book 'Chinese Civil War Armies 1911-49'. I had a hankering to do something Chinese Civil War after watching Assembly.

I wonder how cross-compatible the European and Pacific stuff will be. EG, I don't know how a KMT army or Japanese SNLF would be able to crack open Tigers, for instance.

Regarding the German-trained KMT units. I would define them as elite. Their heyday was the Battle of Shanghai - the Japanese did not expect to lose 70,000 men taking the city. However, I'm unsure if there were many left by the time period FoW covers...

Borrowed from WWpd.
From the latest WI apparently:

6 July

Rising Sun
Hohei Chutai (Infantry Company)
Medium Sensha Platoon (5 Type 89 Chi-Ro tanks)
Nikihaku Teams
BT-5 Fast Tank Company (5 tanks)
T-26 obr 1933 Light Tank Company (5 tanks)

20 July

Light Sensha Platoon (5 Type 95 Ha-Go tanks)
Hohei Platoon
Hohei Machine-gun Platoon
BT-7 Fast Tank Company (5 tanks)
T-26 obr 1939 Light Tank Company (5 tanks)

27 July

Kihei Company (Cavalry company)
T-28 obr 1933/1938 Heavy Tankovy Platoon (3 tanks)
BT-7A Self-propelled Gun Battery (3 tanks)
BA-6 Armoured Car


Lets see if the release holds true,because of the late book shipping.

Very exciting, looks like a cool expansion and opportunity for a new line of models! And fun rules for the Japanese, I hope banzai charges are involved. Hopefully this opens the door for the pacific! USMC!

 col. krazy kenny wrote:
BT-5 Fast Tank Company (5 tanks)... ...T-26 obr 1933 Light Tank Company (5 tanks)... ...BA-6 Armoured Car...

So long as the prices aren't stupid I think they have a customer. Oh and official BF stats incoming for the above to boot. Happy days.

 iheartlargeblasttemplates wrote:
Very exciting, looks like a cool expansion and opportunity for a new line of models! And fun rules for the Japanese, I hope banzai charges are involved. Hopefully this opens the door for the pacific! USMC!

I've still only had a quick squiz at WI but I can confirm that the Japanese have a Banzai special rule along with a few others that make them quite resilient when the chips are down.

Awesome so excited.

I am very interested to see how BF can balance the forces. Historically, even with their very best, Japanese were no match to the Russians. Their only effective weapon against a T-34 is a suicide human bomber.

It's early war so T-34s will be very thin on the ground and expensive. They won't appear at all in the eastern battles lists.

wildger wrote:
I am very interested to see how BF can balance the forces. Historically, even with their very best, Japanese were no match to the Russians. Their only effective weapon against a T-34 is a suicide human bomber.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I want this to to remain a separate game. Ala FOW: Vietnam.

I hope they are compatible i want my SS to march on the Imperialist Japaneese! Allies or not.Or my 101st. Seizing some Airfields.
But i may get lucky and see a LW list for the 173rd. Para Brigade.
But i would understand if they keep ETO and PTO seperate.

wildger wrote:
I am very interested to see how BF can balance the forces. Historically, even with their very best, Japanese were no match to the Russians. Their only effective weapon against a T-34 is a suicide human bomber.

The type 90 75mm field gun was used against shermans, so I figure it could pop a T-34 as well, they had those at nomanhan. They also had a series of 75mm and 88mm AA guns that could be up to the job. Depending on the time period the japanese also developed copies of the panzer IV, Panther and Tiger tanks.

Just because the movies in the movies they use human wave attacks and are only equipped with rifles doesn't mean that thats all they had.

 EmilCrane wrote:
[Depending on the time period the japanese also developed copies of the panzer IV, Panther and Tiger tanks.

They weren't copies, they were based on German technical data. All up, vehicles inspired by PzIII PzIV and Tiger numbered less than 200 and remained in Japan for defense of the home islands, the heavier types never even made it out of the prototype stage.

MarsNZ wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
[Depending on the time period the japanese also developed copies of the panzer IV, Panther and Tiger tanks.

They weren't copies, they were based on German technical data. All up, vehicles inspired by PzIII PzIV and Tiger numbered less than 200 and remained in Japan for defense of the home islands, the heavier types never even made it out of the prototype stage.

I'm aware that they never got used, but they still existed

So did the Maus...

MWM/LWL never blew my hair back to be honest.

The Japanese never had a tiger or a Panther.

They bought one of each from the Germans but never had the ability to get them back.

Japanese tank design was far behind the curve and their 'medium' tanks, basically the equivalent of a Sherman, were kept on the home islands.

i always thought the japs were big on artillery and that any tank bigger than that would have been logistical nightmare as they had to do alot of island hopping and wasnt most of the Japaneese army basically marines anyways?

 George Spiggott wrote:
It's early war so T-34s will be very thin on the ground and expensive. They won't appear at all in the eastern battles lists.

They will also likely be reluctant conscripts like in other EW Russian lists, which also severely limits their impact. They will be practically piled on top of each other due to command distance, helping artillery hurt them more easily in numbers, and their assault abilities will be limited. I destroyed more of them in an EW game with my brits by my opponent assaulting, me getting a lucky bail and then him easily failing his morale test and running leaving the bailed tank to go boom.

Skriker

Do you mean mid war (or another system), because there are no lists yet for Barbarossa.

BTW: The stats for the BT-5, BT-7, T-26 obr 1933 and T-35 in the new WI.