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 Phiasco II wrote:
I'd probably put my money on space marines. They wouldn't try to grind things out with the guard. They would do what they always do, go for specialized targets. The guard high command would be annihilated and without coordination the guard would fall apart. I'm not saying it would be easy, or without massive casualties, but I'm pretty sure that most of the guard would end up surrendering before the end.

Yes, you have to realise the IG probably has more commanders than there are SM, enough plasma and melta guns to hand out to the bodyguards of said commanders and then probably enough super heavy to hide more than half of those commanders inside.

Good luck

Let me simply put it this way:

"I have at my command an entire battle group of the Imperial Guard. Fifty regiments, including specialized drop troops, stealthers, mechanized formations, armored companies, combat engineers and mobile artillery. Over half a million fighting men and thirty thousand tanks and artillery pieces are mine to command. Emperor show mercy to the fool that stands against me, for I shall not."

So for each half a million men the IG can put on the battlefield(s) they can put 30.000 tanks and artillery pieces. Do you know how many battle groups of the imperial guard there are?

Sorry, marines are good, but they arent designed for all out war purposes, they are designed to be marines. boarding, landing and doing other very specific tasks to make the imperial guards victories more likely.

If we're talking one planet and just jam everyone on there then IG would likely win eventually though I doubt you'd be able to fit all those men and equipment on one world without serious logistics.

The Imperial Guard might have more numbers against the Space Marines but they have not as good weaponry and lower grade of armor. Space Marines are cooler, more powerful and ave better weapons but they lack the numbers against the Guard.

In my view, I think the Space Marines would win.

What superior weapon?

There are more Bolter made for the Ig than there SM, there are more plasma guns for the IG than there are bolter shells for the SM, there are more meltaguns than there are power armor, artificer armor, scout armor and terminator armor avaible for the SM.

There are more Heavy bolters... okay do I really need to go on?

 Bobthehero wrote:
What superior weapon?

There are more Bolter made for the Ig than there SM, there are more plasma guns for the IG than there are bolter shells for the SM, there are more meltaguns than there are power armor, artificer armor, scout armor and terminator armor avaible for the SM.

There are more Heavy bolters... okay do I really need to go on?

Exalted

SM because well the IG never turns up,
Ig cant even win back Armageddon

 Gar'Ang wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
What superior weapon?

There are more Bolter made for the Ig than there SM, there are more plasma guns for the IG than there are bolter shells for the SM, there are more meltaguns than there are power armor, artificer armor, scout armor and terminator armor avaible for the SM.

There are more Heavy bolters... okay do I really need to go on?

Exalted

Same Here

the ancient wrote:
SM because well the IG never turns up,
Ig cant even win back Armageddon

SM are also on armageddon

In fact I think over 20 chapters have forces there, so it is not just an IG vs Orks battle.

 Bobthehero wrote:
What superior weapon?

There are more Bolter made for the Ig than there SM, there are more plasma guns for the IG than there are bolter shells for the SM, there are more meltaguns than there are power armor, artificer armor, scout armor and terminator armor avaible for the SM.

There are more Heavy bolters... okay do I really need to go on?

There are more baneblades than there has been space marines since the great crusade =)

I would've gotten there eventually

Khorne would win

 Billagio wrote:

the ancient wrote:
SM because well the IG never turns up,
Ig cant even win back Armageddon

SM are also on armageddon

In fact I think over 20 chapters have forces there, so it is not just an IG vs Orks battle.

Have detachments there, Could be a squad, could be be a company. Either way probably just a legion in the Heresy era.

 Bobthehero wrote:
What superior weapon?

There are more Bolter made for the Ig than there SM, there are more plasma guns for the IG than there are bolter shells for the SM, there are more meltaguns than there are power armor, artificer armor, scout armor and terminator armor avaible for the SM.

There are more Heavy bolters... okay do I really need to go on?

Doesn't matter, most of those heavy bolter's cant shoot anything, but the slow, slow guardsmen in front of them.
Think of Sm like really virulent cancer, pops up everywhere.

That's if you assume that the Guard will just stand there in a massive block like a bunch of slowed numpties making life easier for the Space Marines. No, no, don't see that happening, after all you'd be suggesting that we humans are absolute idiots of the first degree who should still be living in caves - I know people like to make out the Astartes are super-awesomely amazing but don't forget how intelligent, perceptive and adaptive we humans are as a species.

Staggered gun lines, fortified positions, bunkers, defence lines. Hell I can see the Guard forming 'squares' and just ripping on the Astartes as they land in drop pods or jump towards the Guard with jump packs, or race towards them on bikes. With the force of all those lasguns hitting, those Astartes are going to be knocked for six no matter what they do because with each formation they destroy there're hundreds of others they'll need to get through. In short, no matter what the Astartes do the Guard can counter it through weight of fire, even if that means firing on other Guard formations that have shattered - afterall the Guardsmen they're firing on are doing their bit to slow the Astartes and their sacrifice is worth it for the God-Emperor.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
That's if you assume that the Guard will just stand there in a massive block like a bunch of slowed numpties.

Thats usual Guard tactics anyway.Not that don't really have much choice, cramed together on a planet like that.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
No, no, don't see that happening, after all you'd be suggesting that we humans are absolute idiots of the first degree . I know people like to make out the Astartes are super-awesomely amazing but don't forget how intelligent, perceptive and adaptive we humans are as a species.

Well we are. You can blame GW for that one.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
Staggered gun lines, fortified positions, bunkers, defence lines.

Where do they create these lines, under each others feet? Just like all guard guns cant fire at once. Best the guard can hope for is a stalemate. Thats why they're called the guard,

Cant be bothered checking but how many legions were on Ullinor?

the ancient wrote:

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
That's if you assume that the Guard will just stand there in a massive block like a bunch of slowed numpties.

Thats usual Guard tactics anyway.Not that don't really have much choice, cramed together on a planet like that.

Usual Guard tactics of which regiments? Tallarn? Elysian? Catachan? Harakoni? Sounds like the usual Astartes-fan opinion that humans are so stupid in the 41st millenium that the best the regular human Guardsmen can do is stand around in huge blocks in the open because anything else might prove to be a problem for the Astartes, right?

And how small a planet are you thinking here? When you consider landing the Guard regiments, their equipment, supplies, vehicles, armoured fighting vehicles, artillery etc and then moving the battalions, regiments, brigades, divisions, corps, army groups etc into their positions, and just how many formations there would be, do you really think it's just going to be a planet that can fit the Guard onto it but they're just stood there without being able to move? You could probably fit the entirety of the Imperial Guard on the planet Venus but sense and logic dictate that in this scenario you'd be putting the entirety of the Guard onto a planet on which they can fight properly as they're trained to.

the ancient wrote:

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
No, no, don't see that happening, after all you'd be suggesting that we humans are absolute idiots of the first degree . I know people like to make out the Astartes are super-awesomely amazing but don't forget how intelligent, perceptive and adaptive we humans are as a species.

Well we are. You can blame GW for that one.

But then in the same stroke the Astartes would be as stupid as humans considering that's where they come form. There're no intellectual enhancements for the Astartes upon their 'creation', in fact I'd estimate that, due to the traumatic changes they go through physically to become a Space Marine, their intellectual capabilities are most likely going to be lower than the average human who hasn't had to go through years of augmentation that changes them from what they were into something else, hammering their young minds with changes that were never intended for a human to naturally undergo. They have also have a stunted range of emotions compared to a human. So why don't the Astartes just stand in groups waiting to die? Of course the answer is that fans of the Astartes don't want humans to be any good because then that wouldn't make the Astartes look so 'awesome' would it? So you're ready to spit in the face of your species capabilities in favor of a bunch of fictional super-humans who are actually intellectually no better, and probably worse, than the average human.

Also Imperial Guard officers have access to the Tactica Imperium - that mighty tome would not exist without human commanders using tactics & strategies and winning.

the ancient wrote:

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
Staggered gun lines, fortified positions, bunkers, defence lines.

Where do they create these lines, under each others feet? Just like all guard guns cant fire at once. Best the guard can hope for is a stalemate. Thats why they're called the guard,

Cant be bothered checking but how many legions were on Ullinor?

Simple, if we're talking about the combined Imperial Guard, every regiment raised from across 1 million (+/- a few) planets placed onto a single world large enough to take them you'd assuredly make sure the planet was large enough for them to fight properly otherwise you're just being as biased as possible for the Astartes. The Astartes can not win. It's impossible unless you enforce a handicap on the Guard, like the ones you seem to be dreaming up of them not being space to move, no fortifications, having no tactics and just standing there like a bunch of human statues. The Imperial Guard are countless, the Astartes are not. You can't run out of Imperial Guardsmen but you can run out of Astartes and ceramite power armour is not immune to melta or plasma weapons, Guard have access to power weapons, the Death RIders/Rough Riders have hunting lances that will blow apart power armour, even the humble lasgun can smash open power armour - the Imperial Guards tanks could just line up track to track and roll forward over the Astartes and there's nothing the majority of the Astartes could do to stop them.

As for the name 'Imperial Guard'? They're the Guard because they are the ones, in a universe filled with aliens who can easily slay a human, of weapons that can destroy humans in ways too horrible to imagine, they're the ones who hold the line against the worst nightmares the Imperium can face and prevail. That's why they're the Guard, because they can do what the Astartes can't and that is to guard the Imperium.

As a sub-note, do you think Britain's Grenadier Guards were only capable of standing around? Or Napoleon's Young, Middle and Old Guards? Units denoted as being 'Guards' are considered to be elite/shock troops. This is why the Guard is considered to be better at its job than an average PDF.

nah just take every one of the sm chapters and let them face 1/1000th of the imperial guard each on an individual world. Good bye space marine chapters.

let me put it this way

 TheDungen wrote:
nah just take every one of the sm chapters and let them face 1/1000th of the imperial guard each on an individual world. Good bye space marine chapters.

let me put it this way

+1