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I'm new to the game but I have decided to go with DA as my starting force. I had my heart set on Deathwing and a little research has revealed that they have some issues after a couple recent rulings. I still want DWTs in my army and I'm sticking to DA but I want to add an allied detachment. I know enough about the 40k universe that IG are a force I'm interested in (didn't pick them initially due to the high $$ cost) so thematically it sounds like fun and maybe it can help iron out some of the DA's issues that I've read about.

So what would be good for an IG detachment in a DA list of 1500-2000 pts? The basis of the list will be either DW or multiwing w/ Azrael (with DWT's for sure) and some bikes. The Valkyrie looks good, I'm not sure if works as both anti-tank and anti air and I don't know how many would be good. Those IG tanks are something I'm attracted to because tanks are cool and I wouldn't mind owing a couple. I picked up the Cadian Shock Troops and Command Squad so those would be an auto-include. More infantry is something I could do as well. As far as what DA minis I can play I'm pretty wide open on that.

As a new player I probably shouldn't be worried about taking allies but I'm going to anyway

The exact choices will depend on how many points you have available after making your primary detachment, but as a general plan you want a platoon with a blob squad (which will be joined by the DA character that gives the whole unit a 4++) and Sabre guns, a CCS with 4x melta in a Vendetta, and a heavy artillery battery with earthshaker guns. The artillery and infantry give you a good static element which holds your "home" objectives while the DA units move up and kill the enemy, and the Vendetta/Sabres cover your AA needs (a big weakness for DA).

The Valkyrie looks good, I'm not sure if works as both anti-tank and anti air and I don't know how many would be good.

You're thinking of the Vendetta. The Valkyrie is weak and doesn't kill vehicles or aircraft at all, the Vendetta is awesome at both. As for how many, you probably just want a single Vendetta, two at most. Since you only have one allied fast attack slot you'll have to take a squadron to get more than one, and more than two in a squadron is a bad idea.

So i guess the next question is how big a detachment pts wise? for a game of 1500-2000 i'd hesitate to go over 700 pts. but easily could with IG

 Peregrine wrote:
The exact choices will depend on how many points you have available after making your primary detachment, but as a general plan you want a platoon with a blob squad (which will be joined by the DA character that gives the whole unit a 4++) and Sabre guns, a CCS with 4x melta in a Vendetta, and a heavy artillery battery with earthshaker guns. The artillery and infantry give you a good static element which holds your "home" objectives while the DA units move up and kill the enemy, and the Vendetta/Sabres cover your AA needs (a big weakness for DA).

The Valkyrie looks good, I'm not sure if works as both anti-tank and anti air and I don't know how many would be good.

You're thinking of the Vendetta. The Valkyrie is weak and doesn't kill vehicles or aircraft at all, the Vendetta is awesome at both. As for how many, you probably just want a single Vendetta, two at most. Since you only have one allied fast attack slot you'll have to take a squadron to get more than one, and more than two in a squadron is a bad idea.

Thanks a lot, Peregrine. The detachment looks fairly straightforward and has some models that will look good on the table to boot. As far as points left after the primary detachment I'm still playing around with that, 500 for the IG was what I was thinking and joe_deman's limit of 700 is something I'll consider.

HHs can easily roll with the bikes.
Storm Troopers can deep strike along with the termies.
A big blob with a basic Librarian (prescience) is never a bad thing.
Vendettas, as explained before.

The models you have are perfect to start an infantry platoon.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
HHs can easily roll with the bikes.

But has no synergy with them. Simply being able to move 12" does not mean that two units should be used together.

Storm Troopers can deep strike along with the termies.

And, like the Hellhound, there is no reason to care.

 Peregrine wrote:
The exact choices will depend on how many points you have available after making your primary detachment, but as a general plan you want a platoon with a blob squad (which will be joined by the DA character that gives the whole unit a 4++) and Sabre guns, a CCS with 4x melta in a Vendetta, and a heavy artillery battery with earthshaker guns. The artillery and infantry give you a good static element which holds your "home" objectives while the DA units move up and kill the enemy, and the Vendetta/Sabres cover your AA needs (a big weakness for DA).

The Valkyrie looks good, I'm not sure if works as both anti-tank and anti air and I don't know how many would be good.

You're thinking of the Vendetta. The Valkyrie is weak and doesn't kill vehicles or aircraft at all, the Vendetta is awesome at both. As for how many, you probably just want a single Vendetta, two at most. Since you only have one allied fast attack slot you'll have to take a squadron to get more than one, and more than two in a squadron is a bad idea.

I agree with all of this only I would take a Lord Commisar instead of the CCS. You already need to take a PCS to have the platoon to throwing them in the Vendetta is more cost effective since your already paying for them. The Lord Commisar will also help with moral issues thay guard suffer from. Also take a Commisar or two for the Guard blob allowing to re-roll moral checks is gold and in the new FAQ's it says they won't execute an allied IC if moral check is failed.

I'm in the peocess of making a SW army with a very similar allied Guard detachment.

 Peregrine wrote:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
HHs can easily roll with the bikes.

But has no synergy with them. Simply being able to move 12" does not mean that two units should be used together.

Storm Troopers can deep strike along with the termies.

And, like the Hellhound, there is no reason to care.

Hell hounds have an AP4 template, while bikes (should) have 2 meltas or plasmas. Different target groups. Bikes can also hide behind a HH if they feel the need, or the HH can get a cover save. RW are all about mobility, so are HHs.

Terminators lack the ability to take down armor from their deep strike. Yeah, you can have a CML, but you're never going to shoot it at a Land Raider. Storm Troops will give you meltas where you need them. DW (can) be all about the deep strike, so are storm troopers.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Hell hounds have an AP4 template, while bikes (should) have 2 meltas or plasmas. Different target groups. Bikes can also hide behind a HH if they feel the need, or the HH can get a cover save. RW are all about mobility, so are HHs.

But you're looking at superficial stats, not roles in the army. Hellhounds have an AP 4 gun, but the bikers are already great at assaulting and killing the kinds of units (small elite squads with boosted cover saves) that Hellhounds are good against. So the Hellhound adds very little to your army in this situation, especially compared to just buying more bikers (which are scoring).

Terminators lack the ability to take down armor from their deep strike. Yeah, you can have a CML, but you're never going to shoot it at a Land Raider. Storm Troops will give you meltas where you need them. DW (can) be all about the deep strike, so are storm troopers.

But why does having multiple deep striking units matter? Why are storm troopers better than Vendettas/bastion breacher Medusas/Manticores/etc?

Overall I agree with Peregrine. I would however like Sinji suggested probably take a Lord Commisar and attach him to the earthshaker artillery to cover both the artillery moral issues. The PCS can go into a vendetta and take some flamers to help with your horde problems.

The Libby is a good idea overall for a second HQ and can be brutal as with a PFG and infravisor he can be attached to the earthshaker and give the carraige and ~3 models a 4++, makes them have nightvision and so they can target any enemy on the board turn 1 nightfighting, and can use prescience on the earthshaker for rerolls to hit. You could in fact take 3 earthshakers and this unit would be brutal but that is usually excessive so 1 is pretty good. If you play a aircav list put the libby with a sabre platform so they have nightvision and try to roll up the anti cover power.

The HH has no real synergy with RW and you have to give up the vendetta for that lack of symmetry. The RW will be closing to melee range to hit and run to avoid being fired on. The HH has no desire to be in melee range with any army in the game as any unit besideds conscripts will and can kill it in melee.

The stormtroopers take up some of the 50% in reserves and so limit your DWA. The DA are also not that hard up for AV killing as they can take 3 man RW with 2xmelta and deepstrike in side and rear armour with AC.

The commie in a guard blobb is totally unnecessary if you take Azreal (the character Peregrine was talking about with the 4++ unit wide). He makes the unit fearless. He also has some great warlord traits for blobb babysitting. Please give them some lascannons or something though.

SPing

 ansacs wrote:
Overall I agree with Peregrine. I would however like Sinji suggested probably take a Lord Commisar and attach him to the earthshaker artillery to cover both the artillery moral issues. The PCS can go into a vendetta and take some flamers to help with your horde problems.

Yeah, now that I think about it more I agree with that as well. I forgot about the otherwise-useless PCS when I suggested the CCS, and they probably don't need the extra tank killing the CCS provides.

Ok so Lord Commissar, Vendetta, blob squad, Platoon Command Squad, heavy artillery battery. I'll do a add up on points later tonight.

569 pts will get you the entry level package:
1 LC 70pts
Platoon
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
PCS 4xflamer 50pts
Vendetta 130pts
Earthshaker 75pts

However for a limited time you can for 883 pts have the deluxe package which includes:
1 LC 70pts
Platoon
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
PCS 4xflamer 50pts
Vendetta 130pts
Earthshaker 75pts

Either package is a great ad on to any existing force! Call now while supplies are available!!!

 Peregrine wrote:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Hell hounds have an AP4 template, while bikes (should) have 2 meltas or plasmas. Different target groups. Bikes can also hide behind a HH if they feel the need, or the HH can get a cover save. RW are all about mobility, so are HHs.

But you're looking at superficial stats, not roles in the army. Hellhounds have an AP 4 gun, but the bikers are already great at assaulting and killing the kinds of units (small elite squads with boosted cover saves) that Hellhounds are good against. So the Hellhound adds very little to your army in this situation, especially compared to just buying more bikers (which are scoring).

Terminators lack the ability to take down armor from their deep strike. Yeah, you can have a CML, but you're never going to shoot it at a Land Raider. Storm Troops will give you meltas where you need them. DW (can) be all about the deep strike, so are storm troopers.

But why does having multiple deep striking units matter? Why are storm troopers better than Vendettas/bastion breacher Medusas/Manticores/etc?

I see what you're saying with the HH, I just like to be able to take on any target. If my RWAS with meltas are taking down a vehicle the HH can still light up some infantry. If its a transport, the HH can lighten up its contents before the RWAS piles in. Together they can put a hurt on almost anything, but like you said I should have other things to help them. However, when they're half way across the field a Medusa might not be able to help out, or a Manticore could have more pressing targets.

I wouldn't say storm troops are better than Vendettas/medusas/manticore, but if IG is your allied detachment (as the OP suggests) your HS is pretty limited whereas there isn't much competition for your 1 elite slot (unless your all about Marbo). My point was heavy armor is one thing termies can't deal with until they assault. An accompanying storm trooper squad fills that hole if your DA army is all about the deep strike.

50 man guard platoon to roll with Azrael (HWs in unit)
Vendetta
Pair of hyrdas, manticore, or leman russ
marbo for giggles
Lord commissar

 ansacs wrote:
569 pts will get you the entry level package:
1 LC 70pts
Platoon
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
PCS 4xflamer 50pts
Vendetta 130pts
Earthshaker 75pts

However for a limited time you can for 883 pts have the deluxe package which includes:
1 LC 70pts
Platoon
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
IS w/Lascannon 70pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
Sabre w/ +1 Crew 52pts
PCS 4xflamer 50pts
Vendetta 130pts
Earthshaker 75pts

Either package is a great ad on to any existing force! Call now while supplies are available!!!

This is seriously becomming the best allied detachment for just about every army out there. Depending on what your primary detachment is the Infantry Squads can be slightly altered. If your joining SM if any flavor then the above is fine. If your meta is deep strike heavy you can set them up as a counter charge unit/screen. Swap out the lascannons for melta guns and power axes for the same points then add in a commisar with power axe. 3 Infantry Squads works well in this kind if blob but the Lascannon Squads operate just as well for a different role.

Yeah it is pretty brutal...actually it is pretty close to an army list I had to stop running cause it traumatized someone. Just multiply every slot by 2 or 3. This is pretty much an army onto itself.

It really shines with SM of some variety due to the ATSKNF and prescience Libbys. DA and SW are best due to their special abilities on their libbys and their strong forward scoring elements.

It is not bad with CD or CSM as nurgle either can do some cool things when combined with this list. They do however work better as the allies IMO.

Sisters of battle are the only other ones that I would argue can really make this list shine. St. Celestine can seriously hold up an across board charge of anything as they usually cannot finish her.

Can DA Libbys give out night vision? Thats pretty cool.

Yep; infravisor in the special issue wargear. The best part is it is a whopping 5pt upgrade. That, PFG, and 65pt price tag for the DA libby are the three reasons he is a semi reasonable competitor with the SW priest. The only reason the priest tends to edge him out is that grey hunters are amazing.

 ansacs wrote:
The only reason the priest tends to edge him out is that grey hunters are amazing.

And psychic defense. That's a huge advantage for the rune priest.

 Peregrine wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
The only reason the priest tends to edge him out is that grey hunters are amazing.

And psychic defense. That's a huge advantage for the rune priest.

I sort of say the psychic defense = PFG and Infravisor...actually with those two items they are about the same price so perhaps that is destiny.

I actually think the Rune Priest will get a nerf soon and I'm an optimist. Once Eldar gets there realease I think the RP might delt a nice big FArQ.

in a shock attack list like that, there are two uses for IG. first one, Elysian Drop Troops for adding some swarming, or a mech detachment for supporting and/or rolling down the table drawing some fire away from your terminators by looking very mean.

I really hope the RP stays as a psychic defence. its one of the defining qualities of SW and i think their rune priests are a big part of that.

One question about the detachments though, why do we have to forge world it? I've found infantry blob squads really strong without the forge world elements in the past, just a thought

Oh, and Iron hand for the win for their HQ. he's a combat HQ, fearless and also has armourbane, or at least a guard equivelant