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I'm basically running an SM assault army, lots of assault marines and some tactical marines in Rhinos and I'm thinking of fielding a squad of Terminators to deep-strike in should my Tac squads get engaged in combat or my assault marines need some help.. So, what's the best heavy weapon to give them? I currently have 1 of each :3

SM cannot take autocannons which suck on terminators anyway

The cyclone is awesome, usually better than the Assault cannon. The heavy flamer adds antihorde, which terminators often have trouble with, but a heavy flamer is only slightly better than a regular flamer which can be had easily elsewhere.

For an assault focussed army I would suggest heavy flamers, that way you can assault and shoot that turn (correct me if I'm wrong)

And you will kill more against horde armies (tyranids, orks etc.)

Regular SM assault troop army? Wouldn't it be better to go ahead and play BA because of their ASM being a troop pick? Their Termies aren't so bad either.

On your question, it depnds on the other units load outs. I would give them the weapon that covers the lack of weapons missing in your other squads/army.

Even though I don't play Termies that much, if I did, autocannons would be the way to go. Pretty decent AA (armour and air).

 g0atsticks wrote:
Regular SM assault troop army? Wouldn't it be better to go ahead and play BA because of their ASM being a troop pick? Their Termies aren't so bad either.

On your question, it depnds on the other units load outs. I would give them the weapon that covers the lack of weapons missing in your other squads/army.

Even though I don't play Termies that much, if I did, autocannons would be the way to go. Pretty decent AA (armour and air).

I am playing Blood Angels.. I just lost my Codex somewhere a couple of days ago AND I CAN'T FIND IT, so I'm stuck with the Space Marine one until it rocks up somewhere

 Satan's Little Helper wrote:
For an assault focussed army I would suggest heavy flamers, that way you can assault and shoot that turn (correct me if I'm wrong)

Terminators are relentless, therefore they can shoot any gun and still assault.

Man you need to work on your memory. I don't even play BA and I know the points costs of most things lol.

On topic, I really like the assault cannon. I think it's the most versatile of the options. If they could take a drop pod I'd say the heavy flamer, but your cant rely on deep striking to get that flamer in range.
The CML is a decent choice, however I don't feel like it does anything well. It also seems to have different optimal target choices than the storm bolters i.e. av11/12. Whereas the assault cannon can work well against infantry as well as AV of all values.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Man you need to work on your memory. I don't even play BA and I know the points costs of most things lol.

On topic, I really like the assault cannon. I think it's the most versatile of the options. If they could take a drop pod I'd say the heavy flamer, but your cant rely on deep striking to get that flamer in range.
The CML is a decent choice, however I don't feel like it does anything well. It also seems to have different optimal target choices than the storm bolters i.e. av11/12. Whereas the assault cannon can work well against infantry as well as AV of all values.

I know, but I don't know all the special rules for the characters and shizz xD Or any of the psychic powers (though I usually roll in the Biomancy table anyway) etc

The BA special characters are garbage anyway. The only one worth taking is corbulo and his rules aren't exactly complex.

 Griddlelol wrote:
The BA special characters are garbage anyway. The only one worth taking is corbulo and his rules aren't exactly complex.

Boot.. Mephiston

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 g0atsticks wrote:
Regular SM assault troop army? Wouldn't it be better to go ahead and play BA because of their ASM being a troop pick? Their Termies aren't so bad either.

On your question, it depnds on the other units load outs. I would give them the weapon that covers the lack of weapons missing in your other squads/army.

Even though I don't play Termies that much, if I did, autocannons would be the way to go. Pretty decent AA (armour and air).

I am playing Blood Angels.. I just lost my Codex somewhere a couple of days ago AND I CAN'T FIND IT, so I'm stuck with the Space Marine one until it rocks up somewhere

Either way I fouled up, Termies can't take AC. I wouldn't give the a Flamer though, If you did that its just better to give them LC/TH/SS and make the Assault Termies. It really does depend on the load out of they rest of your army.

 g0atsticks wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 g0atsticks wrote:
Regular SM assault troop army? Wouldn't it be better to go ahead and play BA because of their ASM being a troop pick? Their Termies aren't so bad either.

On your question, it depnds on the other units load outs. I would give them the weapon that covers the lack of weapons missing in your other squads/army.

Even though I don't play Termies that much, if I did, autocannons would be the way to go. Pretty decent AA (armour and air).

I am playing Blood Angels.. I just lost my Codex somewhere a couple of days ago AND I CAN'T FIND IT, so I'm stuck with the Space Marine one until it rocks up somewhere

Either way I fouled up, Termies can't take AC. I wouldn't give the a Flamer though, If you did that its just better to give them LC/TH/SS and make the Assault Termies. It really does depend on the load out of they rest of your army.

One little problem with that, I don't have any Assault Termys, nor the funds to purchase said Assault Termys, so I'm stuck with 15 regular Terminators for now .-.

And my army list goes something like this:

Captain w/ JP
Libby w/ Termy Armour

Assault Marines (10) x2
Tactical marines (10) x2 w/ heavy weps

Devvys (5) w/ AA stuff (both armour and air)

Termys (idk how many)

Land Raider and Rhinos for transporting shiz

Pred w/ lascannon turret

 Griddlelol wrote:

...
I really like the assault cannon. I think it's the most versatile of the options. If they could take a drop pod I'd say the heavy flamer, but your cant rely on deep striking to get that flamer in range.
The CML is a decent choice, however I don't feel like it does anything well. It also seems to have different optimal target choices than the storm bolters i.e. av11/12. Whereas the assault cannon can work well against infantry as well as AV of all values.

This sums up my feelings as well.

The HF is dirt cheep, but you need to be right on top of your target to use it. If you are fielding a lot of teleport homers or locator beacons, it might be worth it. It also suffers from opportunity cost. If you are taking a HF, you aren't taking one of the other, better, choices.

The CML is nice for a bunch of reasons. One is that you get to keep your SB. Not huge, but a perk. My problem with it is twofold: One is if you are firing krack missiles at vehicles, odds are you are wasting all the storm bolter shots. I dislike reducing the rest of the squad to cheerleaders while one guy does all the work. The other problem I have is that my scatter die hates me. So whenever someone says it "MLs are good because they can lob frags at soft targets", I just shake my head and say "glad they work for you" I regret every frag missile I aim downrange. They always disappoint, even when fired in ideal circumstances. YMMV. On the plus side, this is the only option with a greater then 24" range, for when you scatter into the middle of nowhere, or kill everything within two feet.

Which bring us at last to the assault cannon. It has synergy with the rest of the squad. If you need to take a shot at vehicles, rending works surprisingly well. You have weight of fire to deal with hordes. And last,but not least, it looks awesome. Nothing says "I'm going to mess up your life" like a man-portable rotary cannon. Search your feelings, you know I'm right...

Giving Mephiston biomancy is a really poor choice. He's a single model unit that now can only move 6". Sure he's tough, but he's also entirely avoidable. I played an opponent with this set up once and simply kited meph when he finally made it near my troops. With all the psychic tests you're making (assuming 2 per turn) you've got a good chance of perils too. He's also quite easily tar pitted by blobs or anything with a 2+ save. And with a 6" move, it's not difficult to do.

Personally, I love the AssCans and field them whenever possible. That being said, deepstriking in next to a big block of Tau who think they are safe in their ruins, and dropping a heavy flamer template (or two!) on them is often the high point of a game for me.

In the end, the reason that there is so much debate between the three options is that they are all good. There is no one best choice, it depends on the situation you want to set up.

If you are holding your termies as back field reserve or part of a gun line, I would go with the CML for range. If you want a unit to deep strike in on an enemy gun line, I enjoy the heavy flamer. The AssCan gives you a good balance between the two, and I usually take one in a situation where I don't have a specific design goal for that squad of termies.

Cheers,

V

Assault Cannon:

I shall repeat the refrain that "It looks REALLY COOL." It's scary looking, and it looks like something you'd use to cripple a horde of heretics or xenos.

From a tactics standpoint, the Assault Cannon is reliable. You can do the math, but overall it's likely to handle most problems well. It's strength 6 can kill heavy infantry well and it doesn't scatter against hordes. That's less potential damage than the CML, but the Assault cannon instant-deaths T3 units, too.

The Heavy Flamer is just nasty on hordes, but if you're throwing it on Tac Termies, you may not want to get that close. There are better options (sternguard) for getting a heavy flamer up close, and the sternguard can hide in a rhino and shoot two as they move around.

The CML can be devastating, has long range effectiveness, options of fire, and ends up being slightly better versus midrange armor. The frag blasts can kill a lot of weak infantry, but scatter can be fickle.

If you're playing a heavy assault-style army, Assault Termies + LRC(or LRs) will be most in theme/painful. If you want to use tac termies because they're cool and fun (which they definitely are) I'd say go Assault Cannon. Gives you flexibility, makes you much better at killing nasty things at distance, and looks really cool.

Hashbeth wrote:
Assault Cannon:

I shall repeat the refrain that "It looks REALLY COOL." It's scary looking, and it looks like something you'd use to cripple a horde of heretics or xenos.

From a tactics standpoint, the Assault Cannon is reliable. You can do the math, but overall it's likely to handle most problems well. It's strength 6 can kill heavy infantry well and it doesn't scatter against hordes. That's less potential damage than the CML, but the Assault cannon instant-deaths T3 units, too.

The Heavy Flamer is just nasty on hordes, but if you're throwing it on Tac Termies, you may not want to get that close. There are better options (sternguard) for getting a heavy flamer up close, and the sternguard can hide in a rhino and shoot two as they move around.

The CML can be devastating, has long range effectiveness, options of fire, and ends up being slightly better versus midrange armor. The frag blasts can kill a lot of weak infantry, but scatter can be fickle.

If you're playing a heavy assault-style army, Assault Termies + LRC(or LRs) will be most in theme/painful. If you want to use tac termies because they're cool and fun (which they definitely are) I'd say go Assault Cannon. Gives you flexibility, makes you much better at killing nasty things at distance, and looks really cool.

I think the CML looks cooler ;D


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, the Assault Termys with LRs is too much of an 'eggs in one basket' situation for me.. If that gets destroyed then they're a sitting duck for bolter fire... I don't like the idea of a 250pt unit, in a 230pt vehicle getting owned by a squad of Vets with meltas..

The CML's extra range may be an added attraction if your force is otherwise low on long range shooting - depending of course on how close you expect to be to the enemy.

I would say that you should magnetize them. You can't really say what is best, because each one has it's own purpose.

CML is great, but In my opinion, your terminators shouldn't be outside 24" range if it can be avoided. Since I usually fight Grey knights I like it for AP3 kraks, but rarely use the frags.

Assault Cannon: As others have said, it synergieses well with the rest of the squad. Rending works well against tanks and heavy infantry too. (Deep striking behind a Leman Russ you can rip them apart).

Heavy Flamer: I almost never use this. It would work well against hordes and other light infantry (which I rarely fight). It's range means that you will most likely only get 1 or 2 shots off with it.

As for your list, I have never been too impressed with the Captain as an HQ. If it were me I'd switch him for a jump pack librarian. He can use the divination primaris power to let his squad re-roll to hit, which would be helpful for assault marines in CC, or your terminators shooting and assault.

Also, TH/SS terminators in a land raider are great fun. I know you said that you don't have any, but you should try proxying them in a friendly game. And