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The Quilon was developed during the Narkida campaign during the Third Sphere Expansion. The native Narkidans were a pre-spaceflight race who practiced extensive biological hybridisation in order to improve upon their naturally evolved forms through a form of specialised gene-therapy. Whilst their technology was primarily focussed on these techniques, their weapons were also highly advanced, using a form of magnetic bottling to produce positron packets at the target site, causing severe by localised damage.
The Narkidan combat doctrine was primarily focussed on long-range aerial bombardment, as individual warriors could be made so deadly as to turn every battle into a massacre. Their wars took the form of a never-ending strategic battle game where the objective was not to control land or people, but to cripple the opposing nations' ability to continue developing and modifying their genehacking techniques. Due to this over-specialisation, the Tau found themselves in an unusual situation - their ground forces were capable of annihilating any Narkidan bio-warrior force in seconds due to numerical and tactical superiority. However, any forces dispatched to the surface soon found themselves assaulted and overwhelmed through precision strikes and mass flyovers from the native wing-morphs and aircraft.
The expedition's armoury of Tiger Sharks and Barracudas were effective, but lacked numbers and maneuverability. After suffering fifty percent combat casualties amongst their air caste pilots, the Ethereal in charge of the operation, Aun'o T'au Tel'mar decided that a change of tack was needed. The answer was found in the expedition's supply of Sunshark bombers. While a Sunshark was no match for even moderately advanced Narkidan wing-morphs, their Interceptor Drones were found to be moderately effective in combating the native menace. A team of drones could reliably be expected to destroy or disable at least one wing-morph before being downed.
Aun'o Tel'mar ordered the expedition's factories to be re-purposed for the mass production of Interceptor and Gun Drones, whilst the Fio'vre technicians were given the task of designing a delivery system. In the end, they based their design off the drone racks fitted to AX-10s, scaled down and redesigned to be fitted in place of the Sunsharks' Pulse Bomb generators. The Quilon was born.
The Quilon is a Fast Attack choice for a Tau Empire army.
200 points
BS 3 | FA 11 | SA 10 | RA 10 | HP 3
Type: Vehicle (Flyer)
Wargear:
Turret-mounted Networked Markerlight
Two Interceptor Drones
Tail-mounted turreted Missile Pod
Drone Racks holding 6 Gun Drones
Options:
May take items from the Vehicle Battle System section.
May exchange both Interceptor Drones for:
- One Smart Missile System.
- Two drones as taken from the Drone Squadron codex entry.
- Two drone-controlled turret-mounted Networked Markerlights.
- Two drone-controlled turret-mounted Missile Pods.
- Two drone-controlled turret-mounted twin-linked Burst Cannons.
Any Gun Drone may be exchanged for one of the following at the listed cost:
- Shield Drone (free)
- Marker Drone (free)
- Missile Drone (6 points/model)
- Interceptor Drone (16 points/model)
May take one of the following:
- Two Seeker Missiles: +16 points
- Advanced Targeting System: +3 points.
Drone Racks: The Quilon may transport up to 6 drones of any sort in its transport racks. Drones carried in this fashion may deploy as though they had the High Velocity Deployment rule (C: TE page 48), but count as normal passengers in every other respect. They may not fire while embarked, and count as undergoing Emergency Disembarkation if the Quilon is destroyed. They may take an Initiative test (per model) in order to avoid Crash and Burn damage.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/06/14 19:24:13
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
The fluff is pretty silly (you're never going to have swarming bio-planes or whatever being anything more than a waste of ammunition against advanced combat aircraft, and a pre-spaceflight civilization is going to be completely outclassed by the Tau), so I'll just deal with the rules:
1) The transport capacity is way too much. The Tigershark only carries 14 gun drones (or 2x Remoras for the specialized variant), this thing carries 10 plus the interceptor drones, or more Remoras than a Tigershark several times its size. So rules-wise you're already way beyond 160 points and into superheavy territory, and there's no way you could fit all of that onto the Sunshark hull.
2) It's significantly overgunned. Not only are you giving it too many drones you're adding even more guns, for free. Even without using the drones this thing is already better than either of the codex flyers.
3) Adding to problem #2, having the drones able to fire while embarked is utterly broken. 10x interceptor drones firing at BS 3 is more firepower than even superheavy flyers, and pretty much auto-kills any enemy flyer attempting to arrive from reserve.
4) Giving vector dancer doesn't make any sense. The codex fighter has the same thrusters and gets no benefit, so why should your flyer get one of the most powerful USRs in the game?
5) The interceptor drones are way too cheap. Going from pulse carbines to ion rifles is way more than +4 points.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Why the 7 point discount on the Advanced Targeting System?
3) Adding to problem #2, having the drones able to fire while embarked is utterly broken. 10x interceptor drones firing at BS 3 is more firepower than even superheavy flyers, and pretty much auto-kills any enemy flyer attempting to arrive from reserve
There are no Firing Ports listed so I don't see the embarked drones being able to shoot while still in the racks.
4) Giving vector dancer doesn't make any sense. The codex fighter has the same thrusters and gets no benefit, so why should your flyer get one of the most powerful USRs in the game?
I'm not sure I would consider that the most powerful USR in the game, unless you are talking about for Flyers. I see giving it Vector Dancer as allowing it an easier time to stay on the field to take advantage of its Drone Control Network. If it swaps out the Interceptor drones for Vector Dancer then its only weapons are a turret mounted smart missile system and 2 fixed missile pods.
Miri wrote: There are no Firing Ports listed so I don't see the embarked drones being able to shoot while still in the racks.
Drones don't need fire points. Also:
Any drones chosen as part of the Quilon's entry (whether on the Drone Racks or in place of the Interceptor Drones) count as having its Ballistic Skill
Since they get the flyer's BS while on the drone racks they have to be able to shoot from the drone racks, otherwise it makes no sense.
I'm not sure I would consider that the most powerful USR in the game, unless you are talking about for Flyers. I see giving it Vector Dancer as allowing it an easier time to stay on the field to take advantage of its Drone Control Network. If it swaps out the Interceptor drones for Vector Dancer then its only weapons are a turret mounted smart missile system and 2 fixed missile pods.
TBH I was thinking of normal flyers where vector dancer makes it really easy to get into rear armor/ignore directional cover/etc, and almost entirely negates the drawback of limited turning ability. I've played with it on the Vulture, and it makes a huge difference, probably more than anything other than shrouded. Of course now that I think about it more, it's probably not as significant for this abomination since most of the firepower is coming from 360* turret weapons and firing arcs will rarely be a problem.
(Which is a very bad thing.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 08:55:28
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
TBH I was thinking of normal flyers where vector dancer makes it really easy to get into rear armor/ignore directional cover/etc, and almost entirely negates the drawback of limited turning ability. I've played with it on the Vulture, and it makes a huge difference, probably more than anything other than shrouded. Of course now that I think about it more, it's probably not as significant for this abomination since most of the firepower is coming from 360* turret weapons and firing arcs will rarely be a problem.
(Which is a very bad thing.)
Actually now that you bring that up, a Turreted Smart Missile System is redundant anyway because they are Homing and don't need LoS to shoot at something anyway and at least they aren't Twin Linked. So it is going to be using its Vector Dancer mostly to try and line up its two non twinlinked str 7 missile pods.
Mind you, I'm not really all that keen on the Drone Racks either so I am totally ignoring them and just looking at the hull mounted weapons.
As far as the BS thing carrying over, I read his Drone Control Network as "Disembarked Drones use the Quilon's BS3 until the Quilon leaves the battlefield or enters Strategic Reserves." Sounds like a Drone Controller that extends over the whole board as opposed to only the drones that are attached to the unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 10:09:53
Drones in the racks cannot fire, no. The drone control network is as Miri said - for after they disembark.
The razorshark was obviously meant to have some kind of manoeuvrability bonus for the thrusters and if I was running a homebrew codex (which would be when I would include the Quilon), I would give the Razorshark Vector Dancer and make it 160 points too.
When I first concieved it, I was thinking 6 drones, but I figired the 10 would make a tau-traditional unit of 12 when all the drones are detatched. I also thought the AX10 could carry more drones than that. Since posting this (and before reading those comments), I. Realised that 10 in the racks doesn't make much sense. Two rows of 5 probably won't fir - it would be 4 rows of 3 or 3 rows of 3 depending on how wide it really is. So 6 drones.
You say bio-warriors would be no threat, but Gargoyles and their larger cousins are a fluff threat, and they don't carry positron rifles. The only reason the Narkidans weren't space-capable is because of their focus on biotech. Besides, none of the existing Tau aircraft are well designed for air-to-air against any target - they're all flying wings, which grant good stability, armour and payload, but suffer in manoeuvrability and tolerances.
So, with only 6 drones in the racks, which can't fire out, do we think this thing is fairer? As for the targetting system, I'm not 100% familiar with the codex and probably made a mistake. Its meant to be the same price as it is in the armoury, but its a battlesuit upgrade not a vehicle one so it doesn't come under the first general option heading (and you have to take it instead of the much more useful drone network controller[/img])
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 11:21:25
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
Yes it is. Quilon Electric Ray, genus Heteronarce prabhui, family Narkidae.
It's a transport/support unit so it gets a Ray-name (like the Manta and Devilfish) rather than a primary offensive unit, which get shark names (Hammerhead, Tiger Shark).
There is an actual theme to Tau ship names, it's not just "fish". Piranhas are offensive scouts, Tetras are light scouts, Remoras are scout drones (the remora is a cleaner fish that attaches itself to manta rays), and so on.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Furyou Miko wrote: The Quilon was developed during the Narkida campaign during the Third Sphere Expansion. The native Narkidans were a pre-spaceflight race who practiced extensive biological hybridisation in order to improve upon their naturally evolved forms through a form of specialised gene-therapy. Whilst their technology was primarily focussed on these techniques, their weapons were also highly advanced, using a form of magnetic bottling to produce positron packets at the target site, causing severe by localised damage.
The Narkidan combat doctrine was primarily focussed on long-range aerial bombardment, as individual warriors could be made so deadly as to turn every battle into a massacre. Their wars took the form of a never-ending strategic battle game where the objective was not to control land or people, but to cripple the opposing nations' ability to continue developing and modifying their genehacking techniques. Due to this over-specialisation, the Tau found themselves in an unusual situation - their ground forces were capable of annihilating any Narkidan bio-warrior force in seconds due to numerical and tactical superiority. However, any forces dispatched to the surface soon found themselves assaulted and overwhelmed through precision strikes and mass flyovers from the native wing-morphs and aircraft.
The expedition's armoury of Tiger Sharks and Barracudas were effective, but lacked numbers and maneuverability. After suffering fifty percent combat casualties amongst their air caste pilots, the Ethereal in charge of the operation, Aun'o T'au Tel'mar decided that a change of tack was needed. The answer was found in the expedition's supply of Sunshark bombers. While a Sunshark was no match for even moderately advanced Narkidan wing-morphs, their Interceptor Drones were found to be moderately effective in combating the native menace. A team of drones could reliably be expected to destroy or disable at least one wing-morph before being downed.
Aun'o Tel'mar ordered the expedition's factories to be re-purposed for the mass production of Interceptor and Gun Drones, whilst the Fio'vre technicians were given the task of designing a delivery system. In the end, they based their design off the drone racks fitted to AX-10s, scaled down and redesigned to be fitted in place of the Sunsharks' Pulse Bomb generators. The Quilon was born.
The Quilon is a Fast Attack choice for a Tau Empire army.
160 points
BS 3 | FA 11 | SA 11 | RA 10 | HP 3
Type: Vehicle (Flyer)
Wargear:
Turret-mounted Networked Markerlight
Two Interceptor Drones
Turret-mounted Smart Missile System.
Two Wing-mounted Missile Pods
Drone Racks
Options:
May take items from the Vehicle Battle System section.
May exchange both Interceptor Drones for:
- One Smart Missile System.
- Two drones as taken from the Drone Squadron codex entry.
- Two drone-controlled turret-mounted Networked Markerlights.
- Two drone-controlled turret-mounted Missile Pods.
- Two drone-controlled turret-mounted twin-linked Burst Cannons.
- Razorshark Manoeuvring Thrusters (Grants the Vector Dancer special rule)
May take up to 10 items from the following list:
- Interceptor Drones (18 points/model)
- Gun Drones (14 points/model)
- Shield Drones (14 points/model)
- Marker Drones (14 points/model)
- Remora Stealth Fighter (110 points/model, count as 3 choices)
May take one of the following:
- Drone Control Network: +8 points
- Two Seeker Missiles: Free
- Advanced Targeting System: 3 points.
Drone Racks: The Quilon may transport up to 10 drones of any sort in its transport racks, or two Remora Stealth Fighters. Drones carried in this fashion may deploy as though they had the High Velocity Deployment rule (C: TE page 48)
Drone Control Network: Any drones chosen as part of the Quilon's entry (whether on the Drone Racks or in place of the Interceptor Drones) count as having its Ballistic Skill, even after deploying, as long as the Quilon remains on the field. If the Quilon leaves the battlefield, then returns from Strategic Reserve, the drones have passed out of range and are no longer networked to the Drone Controller.
Why the minor race? When you say "bio-modification" to a 40ker, they will think Tyranids. Introducing a minor race just to kill them off is pointless and silly when there is a major race that does exactly what the minor race does but better in every conceivable way.
And the Tau have had *very* extensive contact with the Tyranids, who are now starting to take lethal amounts of interest in the Tau Empire's diverse genepool. To the point that Hive Fleet leviathan is breaking off some pretty big tendrils towards it.
Also don't listen to Peregrine, if he had his way the only army would be the Imperial guard and Tau, everything else is too "unrealistic".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 17:50:55
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Introducing a minor race and killing them off felt more Tau to me. *shrug* they're all about the minor races, and either the TMEs (Tau Minor Ethnicities :p) are brought into compliance, or they're wiped out.
It had to be something 'new' because otherwise it wouldn't have forced a new weapon type.
I find Peregrine useful. He's good at spotting things I hadn't thought of like people assuming the drones can fire out of the drone racks. The thought that people might think they can do that never even crossed my mind, since I know that the Drones on standard Tau vehicles have special mountings to do that and these were explicitly transported.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Furyou Miko wrote: Introducing a minor race and killing them off felt more Tau to me. *shrug* they're all about the minor races, and either the TMEs (Tau Minor Ethnicities :p) are brought into compliance, or they're wiped out.
It had to be something 'new' because otherwise it wouldn't have forced a new weapon type.
I find Peregrine useful. He's good at spotting things I hadn't thought of like people assuming the drones can fire out of the drone racks. The thought that people might think they can do that never even crossed my mind, since I know that the Drones on standard Tau vehicles have special mountings to do that and these were explicitly transported.
The Tyranids vomit out new bioforms nearly constantly.
And Peregrine seems to dislike a vast portion of the fluff, from the World Eaters, to reality warping chaos, to the Tyranids existing, to the Orks being funny and having ramshackle tech that works, to Space Marines being a thing, and again, anything that isn't tacticool IG and Tau.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
cerbrus2 wrote: Um Orca is a whale. Killer whale if you must. Its also a transport.
Bloody Tau... make your minds up.
It's the Imperium that named Tau vehicles after fish, not Tau.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
cerbrus2 wrote: Um Orca is a whale. Killer whale if you must. Its also a transport.
Bloody Tau... make your minds up.
It's the Imperium that named Tau vehicles after fish, not Tau.
If the names of their ships are anything to go by, we wouldn't be able to pronounce any of their vehicle names anyway.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Sounds a lot like the solutions in need of problems that get proposed everytime a new codex drops.
I'm not trying to fix a problem. I had a mental image of how cool a Sunshark would look with a drone rack, and thought, why not make rules for it?
Kain wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote: Introducing a minor race and killing them off felt more Tau to me. *shrug* they're all about the minor races, and either the TMEs (Tau Minor Ethnicities :p) are brought into compliance, or they're wiped out.
It had to be something 'new' because otherwise it wouldn't have forced a new weapon type.
I find Peregrine useful. He's good at spotting things I hadn't thought of like people assuming the drones can fire out of the drone racks. The thought that people might think they can do that never even crossed my mind, since I know that the Drones on standard Tau vehicles have special mountings to do that and these were explicitly transported.
The Tyranids vomit out new bioforms nearly constantly.
And Peregrine seems to dislike a vast portion of the fluff, from the World Eaters, to reality warping chaos, to the Tyranids existing, to the Orks being funny and having ramshackle tech that works, to Space Marines being a thing, and again, anything that isn't tacticool IG and Tau.
I never said I was relying on him for fluff, lol. Mostly for rules loopholes and oversights. But we aren't here to talk about the merits of Peregine.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Original post updated to reflect changes from discussions in and around the thread. New opinions please?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 20:55:51
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Kain wrote: And Peregrine seems to dislike a vast portion of the fluff, from the World Eaters, to reality warping chaos, to the Tyranids existing, to the Orks being funny and having ramshackle tech that works, to Space Marines being a thing, and again, anything that isn't tacticool IG and Tau.
Which is completely false. Space marines are fine, as long as they're viewed as their tabletop effectiveness (elite shooting-based infantry, not invincible gods of combat), not the wildly exaggerated Imperial propaganda the fluff likes to use. Orks are great because they're comic relief and you aren't meant to take their ridiculous "technology" seriously. Tyranids, on the other hand, are incredibly stupid realism-wise and have no character fluff-wise. So no, I don't think that a fanboy army made by someone who failed biology 101 deserves to be in the game.
Furyou Miko wrote: Drones in the racks cannot fire, no. The drone control network is as Miri said - for after they disembark.
You still have a problem though. One of these with a full load of interceptor drones is pretty much an auto-take. It outguns both of the codex flyers with no drawback, and you get to drop a blob of interceptor drones (which you normally can't take) as you arrive from reserve for a 2-for-1 deal on fast attack units.
When I first concieved it, I was thinking 6 drones, but I figired the 10 would make a tau-traditional unit of 12 when all the drones are detatched. I also thought the AX10 could carry more drones than that. Since posting this (and before reading those comments), I. Realised that 10 in the racks doesn't make much sense. Two rows of 5 probably won't fir - it would be 4 rows of 3 or 3 rows of 3 depending on how wide it really is. So 6 drones.
6 drones is a start, but remove Remoras (way too big to fit) and interceptor drones (too powerful) and give it the same guns as the codex bomber instead of all the bonus ones you gave it. If you're just dropping 6x normal gun drones instead of the pulse bomb it's probably reasonably balanced, but all the other stuff is just way too much.
You say bio-warriors would be no threat, but Gargoyles and their larger cousins are a fluff threat, and they don't carry positron rifles. The only reason the Narkidans weren't space-capable is because of their focus on biotech. Besides, none of the existing Tau aircraft are well designed for air-to-air against any target - they're all flying wings, which grant good stability, armour and payload, but suffer in manoeuvrability and tolerances.
The problem is you're talking about a 1000+ mph fighter against birds. This is like flying one of the earliest WWI fighters against an F-22, except even more one-sided. The Tau would have complete ability to dictate terms of engagement, long-range weapons with advanced targeting systems, and probably tactical nuclear weapons to wipe out entire swarms with a single shot.
And yes, Gargoyles, like everything else about Tyranids, are stupid. The best thing to do is pretend that they don't exist.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Peregrine, sorry, I managed to ninja your post with a slew of updates to the original statline. >>
Anyway, Swordfish torpedo bombers should never have been able to sink the Bismark. Still happened though.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Furyou Miko wrote: Anyway, Swordfish torpedo bombers should never have been able to sink the Bismark. Still happened though.
Not at all true. WWII-era AA guns weren't all that effective and the best defense was fighters of your own (which the Bismark didn't have), so it's entirely predictable that a swarm of torpedo planes could sink their target. Not that they did of course, they just damaged it enough for the battleships to catch it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furyou Miko wrote: Peregrine, sorry, I managed to ninja your post with a slew of updates to the original statline. >>
Which still doesn't fix the two biggest problems:
1) The extra guns compared to the codex bomber. If you're going to replace the bomb with a drone rack, replace the bomb with a drone rack, don't also add free missile pods and the ability to swap the interceptor drones for more missile pods. Your fighter completely replaces both codex flyers even without considering the bonus gun blob.
2) The ability to take mass interceptor drones. There's a reason why they're limited to a pair of them on a single unit, and you shouldn't be able to get around that limit.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/23 21:32:53
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
I haven't given it free missile pods. it's more expensive and loses the seekers.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Furyou Miko wrote: I haven't given it free missile pods. it's more expensive and loses the seekers.
Yes you did. In fact you made it cheaper than the codex flyers while adding firepower. Your unit costs 200 points, with 84 points of drones already included. So even if we deduct the standard 16 points for the seekers you're removing you're paying 116 points compared to 144 for a seeker-less bomber or 129 for a seeker-less fighter. And given that missile pods are better than one-shot seeker missiles this is NOT an acceptable situation.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Kain wrote: And Peregrine seems to dislike a vast portion of the fluff, from the World Eaters, to reality warping chaos, to the Tyranids existing, to the Orks being funny and having ramshackle tech that works, to Space Marines being a thing, and again, anything that isn't tacticool IG and Tau.
Which is completely false. Space marines are fine, as long as they're viewed as their tabletop effectiveness (elite shooting-based infantry, not invincible gods of combat), not the wildly exaggerated Imperial propaganda the fluff likes to use. Orks are great because they're comic relief and you aren't meant to take their ridiculous "technology" seriously. Tyranids, on the other hand, are incredibly stupid realism-wise and have no character fluff-wise. So no, I don't think that a fanboy army made by someone who failed biology 101 deserves to be in the game.
.
Except that the Chaos and Eldar viewpoint novels also paint Marines as near invincible gods of combat. Yes, even loyalist marines. Heck in the word bearers books 300 White Consuls were considered a more valid fighting force than their fifteen billion guard and PDF allies. In the Eldar Books, the Guardsmen go down like so much chaff to the Eldar, with even guardians getting ridiculous kill ratios against them, but the Marines provide a fierce fight for the aspect warriors and slaughter guardians like nothing.
Tyranids have also been around since rogue trader along with Orks and Eldar, they have by now become a major fixture of the 40k universe and are perhaps only rivaled by Chaos as the overall villain of the entire setting.
This is a setting where the collection of everyone's anger has formed into a giant armored man in the middle of dreamland who craps out hordes of angry red demon people who murder people in the real world with sharpened sticks and are still seen as a legitimate threat in a universe with guns.
Physics need not apply.
All that's needed is at least somewhat consistent rules for the fictional setting to maintain versimilitude, realism is not at all necessary, but consistency is. And the Tyranids have been a very consistent force. Whereas nobody can agree about just how powerful the Orkish psychic gesalt field is, or if Chaos Space Marines are supreme threats or just elite mooks, or how dangerous Chaos Daemons are, or if Farseers are near perfect with prediction or can be blindsided by an Ork showing up in the wrong place.
The Tyranids have consistently remained "big slavering horde of monsters that have more bodies than you have ammo who are going to eat you. And even if you win your planet will never be the same again." Since the change of the Necron's character, the Tyranids are now the sole threat of annihilation. Chaos corrupts, Orks fight , the Necrons reclaim, Eldar manipulate, Dark Eldar torture, the Tau assimilate, and the Imperium conquers. The Tyranids destroy.
Other factions would still leave some of their enemies alive if only to keep them around as pets or slaves or to bring them into their nation. The Tyranids don't even occupy the world, they kill it once and for all. If each 40k faction represents an evil, the Tyranids represent the evil of total destruction. Even Khornates and Orkoids would still leave something intact so that they can continue to fight for the sake of fighting.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Furyou Miko wrote: The Quilon was developed during ~snip~mb generators. The Quilon was born.
The Quilon is a Fast Attack choice for a Tau Empire army.
Spoiler:
200 points
BS 3 | FA 11 | SA 11 | RA 10 | HP 3
Type: Vehicle (Flyer)
Wargear:
Turret-mounted Networked Markerlight
Two Interceptor Drones
Two Wing-mounted Missile Pods
Tail-mounted turreted Missile Pod
Drone Racks holding 6 Gun Drones
Options:
May take items from the Vehicle Battle System section.
May exchange both Interceptor Drones for:
- One Smart Missile System.
- Two drones as taken from the Drone Squadron codex entry.
- Two drone-controlled turret-mounted Networked Markerlights.
- Two drone-controlled turret-mounted Missile Pods.
- Two drone-controlled turret-mounted twin-linked Burst Cannons.
- Razorshark Manoeuvring Thrusters (Grants the Vector Dancer special rule)
Any Gun Drone may be exchanged for one of the following at the listed cost:
- Shield Drone (free)
- Marker Drone (free)
- Missile Drone (6 points/model)
- Interceptor Drone (12 points/model)
May take one of the following:
- Two Seeker Missiles: +16 points
- Drone Control Network: +8 points
- Advanced Targeting System: +3 points.
Drone Racks: The Quilon may transport up to 6 drones of any sort in its transport racks. Drones carried in this fashion may deploy as though they had the High Velocity Deployment rule (C: TE page 48), but count as normal passengers in every other respect. They may not fire while embarked, and count as undergoing Emergency Disembarkation if the Quilon is destroyed. They may take an Initiative test (per model) in order to avoid Crash and Burn damage.
Drone Control Network: Any drones chosen as part of the Quilon's entry (whether on the Drone Racks or in place of the Interceptor Drones) count as having its Ballistic Skill, even after deploying, as long as the Quilon remains on the field. If the Quilon leaves the battlefield, then returns from Strategic Reserve, the drones have passed out of range and are no longer networked to the Drone Controller.
When I was talking to you I said 2 missile pods, not 3. I also hadn't noticed it has extra armour, It should really have Side Armour 10.
Costing as is:
Spoiler:
Sun Shark: 160
+1 SA +10
-Bomb Generator -20
-Seeker Missiles -16
+2 Missile Pod +30
+6 Gun Drones +72
Total: 236
By dropping it to 2 Missile Pods, and reducing it back to SA 11, that drops it by 25pts, making you 211, and I would be fine at knocking 11pts off to 200 at that, just for a round number.
OR, make the Wing Drones Gun Drones by default (Keeping it at 200pts), with the choice to upgrade with the rest.
Then limit Interceptor Drones and Missile Drones to max 2:
Something along the lines of:
Spoiler:
Army: Tau Empire
FO: Fast Attack
Squad: Quilon
Unit: Quilon, Points Per: 100, Models: 1, Unit Type: Vehicle (Flyer),
WS-/, BS-3, S-/, FA-11, SA-10, RA-10, HP-3, I-/, A-/.
Wargear:
Turret-mounted Networked Markerlight
Two Wing Mounted Gun Drones
Two Wing-mounted Missile Pods
Drone Racks holding 6 Gun Drones
Options:
May take items from the Vehicle Battle System section.
Any Gun Drone may be exchanged for one of the following at the listed cost:
- Shield Drone (free)
- Marker Drone (free)
Up to 2 Gun Drones may be exchanged for one of the following at the listed cost:
- Missile Drone +6 points/model
- Interceptor Drone +12 points/model
May take one of the following:
- Two Seeker Missiles: +16 points
- Drone Control Network: +8 points
- Advanced Targeting System: +3 points.
Shouldn't points costs not divisible by five be avoided for units with triple digit prices?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Furyou Miko wrote: I haven't given it free missile pods. it's more expensive and loses the seekers.
Yes you did. In fact you made it cheaper than the codex flyers while adding firepower. Your unit costs 200 points, with 84 points of drones already included. So even if we deduct the standard 16 points for the seekers you're removing you're paying 116 points compared to 144 for a seeker-less bomber or 129 for a seeker-less fighter. And given that missile pods are better than one-shot seeker missiles this is NOT an acceptable situation.
Stop being so damn absolute and confrontational. "NOT an acceptable situation", you sound like my manager.
How is 200 points cheaper than 145?
Also, the interceptor drones are non-negotiable. They're kind of half the point of the thing. Why do you think they're sooo overpoweredly broken?
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Sigh. Did you even read the post you quoted? 200 points is cheaper than 145 because you're getting 84 points of gun drones included in that 200 points. If you compare just the flyer to the codex ones you get better guns, better armor, AND a point decrease.
Also, the interceptor drones are non-negotiable.
Then good luck getting anyone to play against it.
Why do you think they're sooo overpoweredly broken?
Because interceptor guns are supposed to be rare. Did you notice that GW deliberately didn't put interceptor drones anywhere else, and limited the bomber to two of them? You can argue that having more of them doesn't break the game, but you can't argue with the fact that you're reversing a deliberate decision by GW to limit access to something.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Because interceptor guns are supposed to be rare. Did you notice that GW deliberately didn't put interceptor drones anywhere else, and limited the bomber to two of them? You can argue that having more of them doesn't break the game, but you can't argue with the fact that you're reversing a deliberate decision by GW to limit access to something.
And yet they gave the ability to take them to every single unit in the Tau Elite section for a paltry 5 points per model. Now if you had said the same thing about Skyfire then I would have agreed with you.
Miri wrote: And yet they gave the ability to take them to every single unit in the Tau Elite section for a paltry 5 points per model. Now if you had said the same thing about Skyfire then I would have agreed with you.
But most of the time that 5-point upgrade doesn't give you a viable unit. Putting interceptor on a unit without skyfire (or a Riptide pie plate) isn't really that impressive because you're better off waiting until your own shooting phase to hit the target with markerlights and concentrated fire. Throwing some missile pod shots at an arriving flyer and hoping for 6s to hit just isn't worth it. Meanwhile the drones are a good interceptor weapon, with both skyfire and interceptor and point-efficient shooting (especially with the ridiculously overpowered drone controller on the flyer) they are able to effectively engage incoming targets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/24 23:25:00
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Make the Drones in the racks count against the Fast Attack FOC and you have to actually pay for them since Peregrine is having issues with it. That way if you field a Quilon with drone rack 2 of your 3 Fast Attack slots are already filled.
