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Thatguyhsagun wrote:

Bjorn, who beat up a full-strength primarch, would like a word with you.

Magnus wasn't at full strength.

Battle of the Fang explicitly notes that his power was already waning in the materium before Greyloc and Bjorn ever ambushed him.

Also, that fight was terrible. It's a shame because I actually liked the book until the final fight.

Not once, not twice, but three times Magnus is like "Ohwait lol I'm a Primarch", and proceeds to easily slaughter the foes that were laying into him before. No seriously, the narrative explicitly says that Magnus, while taking a beating, suddenly "remembers" that he is in fact, way too powerful to be getting his ass kicked like this, and then crushes his foes. Including Bjorn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xyptc wrote:
Interesting question; would Draigo be able to accomplish the same things in realspace as he does in the Warp?

Don't get me wrong, he accomplishes a lot of really impressive stuff in realspace, but it strikes me that a lot of his grander achievements take place in imagination land where "anything is possible" and power waxes and wanes like the tides.

This actually is a fairly good question, and one which the fluff does not really address.

Personally, I like to think of Draigo as a "fixed point" in the Warp, and anomaly that is practically Lovecraftian to the forces of Chaos due to the stability it imposes on the Materium. But that is just my personal fanwank.

At least yours is better then the one Matt Ward had at the time of Draigo's conception xD

Fourth deathmatch:
Bjorn the fellhanded versus Old one eye!

Old one eye. He only has one eye, but he'll eat up a shrivelled up corpse any day.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Old one eye. He only has one eye, but he'll eat up a shrivelled up corpse any day.

I never thought you, Tyranid horde, would side with old one eye...

Bjorn was slaughtering his enemies back when old one eye was biomass, even with the whole monstrous creature vs vehicle thing I'm sure Bjorn would win through sheer determination.

Bjorn would defeat Old One Eye.

He fought against Magnus. He was the only being to do so that survived in Battle of the Fang.

Hmm before fine cast they made equally good paperweights.

sorry guys, I've been busy with exams, so quick one off the top of my head:
Dante vs Lysander!

Probably Dante.

He's a legendary warrior, considered one of the greatest combatants not just of recent times, but of all time.

I don't have my blood angel's codex on me, but just out of interest, who is actually older? Because I think Dante's meant to be the oldest non-dreadnought loyalist marine alive, but Lysander spent ages in the warp, so does that make him older?

Even Lysander can't recall a time Dante was not chapter master of the Blood Angels.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Even Lysander can't recall a time Dante was not chapter master of the Blood Angels.

Yep.

Dante wins.

I envision it as Lysander being too resillient for Dante to finish off. Between the sheer bulk and tenacity of Lysander and his ridiculous wargear, I'd say the fight would be long and drawn out but probably end with Dante catching a Vortex Grenade with his chin and disappearing into the void.

I'd imagine it'd go down something like this:
Dante jump packs over, tries a shot with his melta pistol, Lysander blocks with his shield.
Lysander swings with his hammer, Dante dodges, swings his axe, lysander blocks.
This goes on for a while until Dante gets under his guard and wounds him, maybe brings him to one knee.
Lysander drags himself up, swings at Dante, who blocks with his axe. He goes reeling, and either jump packs away or Lysander crushes him with a second blow.

I don't care who you are, if you take a solid hit with that hammer, you're screwed.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

Bjorn, who beat up a full-strength primarch, would like a word with you.

Magnus wasn't at full strength.

Battle of the Fang explicitly notes that his power was already waning in the materium before Greyloc and Bjorn ever ambushed him.

Also, that fight was terrible. It's a shame because I actually liked the book until the final fight.

Not once, not twice, but three times Magnus is like "Ohwait lol I'm a Primarch", and proceeds to easily slaughter the foes that were laying into him before. No seriously, the narrative explicitly says that Magnus, while taking a beating, suddenly "remembers" that he is in fact, way too powerful to be getting his ass kicked like this, and then crushes his foes. Including Bjorn.

yeah the end was just bad writing.
As for Dante v Lydsander, Dante. He doesn't die until his fate is up. dude is 1100 years old, I doubt his destiny was to die fighting another faithful servant.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
As for Dante v Lydsander, Dante. He doesn't die until his fate is up. dude is 1100 years old, I doubt his destiny was to die fighting another faithful servant.

Lysander was rolling around in the warp for a thousand years, got captured by (IIRC) iron warriors, then gets tortured and fought his way through a city with no armour or weapons, then escapes on a shuttle to run back to imperial held worlds. I don't think he'd die until his fate is up either

 shrike wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
As for Dante v Lydsander, Dante. He doesn't die until his fate is up. dude is 1100 years old, I doubt his destiny was to die fighting another faithful servant.

Lysander was rolling around in the warp for a thousand years, got captured by (IIRC) iron warriors, then gets tortured and fought his way through a city with no armour or weapons, then escapes on a shuttle to run back to imperial held worlds. I don't think he'd die until his fate is up either

That was by pure will. Dante had been near-killed and presumed dead on a multitude of occasions, pointing to not being allowed to die due to a destiny. Plus he's been kicking just as long as Lysander, without having to hide in the warp.

text removed.
reds8n

 DarthMarko wrote:

I laughed so hard on this....Stop using fanboy drugs
3 times he was kicked back in the warp...
1 - Russ broke his back and throw him into the mud
2 - Ragnar used him as a target practice
3 - Bjorn pummeled him after he attacked UNDEFENDED FORT AND FAILED
4 - They also kicked the gak out of him on Garm

Magnus can only crush himself....weakling...I'm just waiting for Ahriman to kick him too...
AND damn this childish excuses, every time SW kick cyclops it's always something....pretty annoying

I'm not entirely sure I should even address your thoughtless trolling, but I'll give it a shot, if only for the benefit of those that might misguidedly believe the unfacts you speak of.

First of all, any instance not related to Magnus' foray into the Fang is entirely irrelevant to what I said, brought up by you for two reasons:

A. Trolling.

B. You can't stand the idea of anyone saying anything bad about a Space Wolf novel.

Now that we have gotten that out of the way... I never denied Magnus has never been banished to the Warp, so your cry of him being banished "three times" is, once more, irrelevant.

As for the specific instances:

1. After Tzeentch allowed Russ to, yes. It is glaringly obvious that Magnus had the advantage most of the fight.

2. Can't really comment on, though thankfully since most regard the Space Wolf novels as rightly bad, no one really pays attention to that.

3. Ah yes, something actually on topic.

First of all: Bjorn did not banish him. Actually, Magnus defeated all of his opponents. But I'll get to refuting that later.

Firstly, Magnus was weakened:

"Magnus turned away. In the flickering light of the sanctum, Temekh could sense the raw power bleeding from his image. So much, it was hard to contain. Since casting aside his mortal flesh, the primarch required colossal amounts of energy merely to exist on the physical plane. It was like trying to squeeze a sun in a wineglass."
- page 433

Even before setting foot on the Fang, Magnus was bleeding power.

"Magnus stood in the Fangthane. His mantle ran with flames, slowly dying out as the glory of his ascent receded."
- page 454

Continues to bleed power, after his first battle in the Fang.

Now then... Using all caps does not make your argument stronger, if anything it makes it worse.

Magnus' assault on the Fang had crushed the resistance of the forces there. The only reason the Fang still stands is because a single ship managed to make it to the rest of the chapter in time, allowing them to bolster the few remaining troops of that Great Company (Seriously, there were like 20. Magnus on the other hand still had hundreds of Marines left).

As for why it was terrible, there are a few reasons. There is the general plot armour shenanigans of 40k. It is indeed strange how, despite being able to telekinetically paralyze 300 Space Wolves (Including 12 Rune Priests and the Great Wolf) with the merest fraction of his power (He was so diminished there that he could but appear as a frail, shorter than average mortal man) on Gangava, he is unable to do so to three Marines, a Rune Priest (Albeit the strongest one at the time), and Bjorn with much greater power at his disposal. It is similarly strange that Magnus could punch through Tactical Dreadnought Armour and actual Dreadnoughts like tissue paper, but Ironhelm and Bjorn fared much better for some inexplicable reason. But I could have forgiven plot armour.

But no... We got this:

"The onslaught had been horrendous, the worst he had endured in a thousand years, but his strength was near-infinite and his guile scarcely less so. He straightened, towering over his assailants, and remembered what power lay within his gauntlet-grasp."
- page 474

He then proceeds to punch a Wolf Guard's skull in, torture Sturmhjhart with psyflame before exploding him with a gesture, slapped the remaining Wolf Guard so hard he snapped his spine, and then proceeded to push Greyloc to the ground and rip both his hearts out while Bjorn shot plasma blast after plasma blast at him (Also destroying a Thunderhawk in the process).

Then, he fights Bjorn. They go back and forth, Bjorn firing point blank plasma cannon shots at him and swiping at him with his DCCW. Magnus crushes the cannon as Bjorn fires it, and then...

"It was then that Magnus, weary, wounded and burned as he was, seemed to remember his dread authority at last. He let fly with a broken hand, and fluorescent warp-energy spat from his outstretched fingers. Bjorn's claw crumbpled, withering amid a storm of varicoloured madness. The talons flexed wildly, then cracked apart."
- page 480

Bjorn after this is entirely helpless against Magnus, who tears through his armour, renders the machinery useless, and holds him over the edge of the mountain. It's strange, with how easily he could have disarmed him, that he chose not to do it. Oh wait, sorry, he didn't choose, he forgot!

Ironhelm proceeds to save Bjorn, leaping at Magnus from behind with his power fist, sending all three down the mountain. When Magnus and Ironhelm land, they fight. Or rather, Magnus leans against the mountain while Ironhelm punches the gak out of him. But then...

"But then, just as before, he began to remember himself. From somewhere deep within, a new flame kindled."
- page 486

Ah yes, Magnus suddenly remembers "Oh wait I'm a Primarch" again. He proceeds to easily catch Ironhelm's power fist in one hand and destroy it, and clocks him in the jaw, and then proceeds to basically torture and dismember him with psyflame, before punching him again, killing him.

So yes, the fights were terrible. Not only did they rely on plot armour that ignored the opponent's powers, but they actually had a half-assed idiotic excuse; that Magnus "forgot" how powerful he was.

So yes, he did, in fact, crush Greyloc and his retinue, Sturmhjart, Bjorn, and Ironhelm, once he remembered his power. Deal with it.

Also, I'd appreciate it if someone who immaturely and impotently personally attacked me doesn't refer to me or my posts as "childish" within the same posts. Not because you doing so hurt my feelings mind you, but because I am a good samaritan, and it does pain me to see people defeat their own posts and arguments in ironic ways.

Void___Dragon, you'll have to forgive Magnus. He's getting on a bit, you know... memory's not what it used to be. Besides, you know how many important things require his time and attention these days? Guy's got more on his plate than a cocktail waitress at Nurgle's last party.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

I laughed so hard on this....Stop using fanboy drugs

A. Trolling.

B. You can't stand the idea of anyone saying anything bad about a Space Wolf novel.

Now that we have gotten that out of the way... I never denied Magnus has never been banished to the Warp, so your cry of him being banished "three times" is, once more, irrelevant.

As for the specific instances:

1. After Tzeentch allowed Russ to, yes. It is glaringly obvious that Magnus had the advantage most of the fight.

2. Can't really comment on, though thankfully since most regard the Space Wolf novels as rightly bad, no one really pays attention to that.

3. Ah yes, something actually on topic.

First of all: Bjorn did not banish him. Actually, Magnus defeated all of his opponents. But I'll get to refuting that later.

Firstly, Magnus was weakened:

"Magnus turned away. In the flickering light of the sanctum, Temekh could sense the raw power bleeding from his image. So much, it was hard to contain. Since casting aside his mortal flesh, the primarch required colossal amounts of energy merely to exist on the physical plane. It was like trying to squeeze a sun in a wineglass."
- page 433

Even before setting foot on the Fang, Magnus was bleeding power.

"Magnus stood in the Fangthane. His mantle ran with flames, slowly dying out as the glory of his ascent receded."
- page 454

Continues to bleed power, after his first battle in the Fang.

Now then... Using all caps does not make your argument stronger, if anything it makes it worse.

Magnus' assault on the Fang had crushed the resistance of the forces there. The only reason the Fang still stands is because a single ship managed to make it to the rest of the chapter in time, allowing them to bolster the few remaining troops of that Great Company (Seriously, there were like 20. Magnus on the other hand still had hundreds of Marines left).

As for why it was terrible, there are a few reasons. There is the general plot armour shenanigans of 40k. It is indeed strange how, despite being able to telekinetically paralyze 300 Space Wolves (Including 12 Rune Priests and the Great Wolf) with the merest fraction of his power (He was so diminished there that he could but appear as a frail, shorter than average mortal man) on Gangava, he is unable to do so to three Marines, a Rune Priest (Albeit the strongest one at the time), and Bjorn with much greater power at his disposal. It is similarly strange that Magnus could punch through Tactical Dreadnought Armour and actual Dreadnoughts like tissue paper, but Ironhelm and Bjorn fared much better for some inexplicable reason. But I could have forgiven plot armour.

But no... We got this:

"The onslaught had been horrendous, the worst he had endured in a thousand years, but his strength was near-infinite and his guile scarcely less so. He straightened, towering over his assailants, and remembered what power lay within his gauntlet-grasp."
- page 474

He then proceeds to punch a Wolf Guard's skull in, torture Sturmhjhart with psyflame before exploding him with a gesture, slapped the remaining Wolf Guard so hard he snapped his spine, and then proceeded to push Greyloc to the ground and rip both his hearts out while Bjorn shot plasma blast after plasma blast at him (Also destroying a Thunderhawk in the process).

Then, he fights Bjorn. They go back and forth, Bjorn firing point blank plasma cannon shots at him and swiping at him with his DCCW. Magnus crushes the cannon as Bjorn fires it, and then...

"It was then that Magnus, weary, wounded and burned as he was, seemed to remember his dread authority at last. He let fly with a broken hand, and fluorescent warp-energy spat from his outstretched fingers. Bjorn's claw crumbpled, withering amid a storm of varicoloured madness. The talons flexed wildly, then cracked apart."
- page 480

Bjorn after this is entirely helpless against Magnus, who tears through his armour, renders the machinery useless, and holds him over the edge of the mountain. It's strange, with how easily he could have disarmed him, that he chose not to do it. Oh wait, sorry, he didn't choose, he forgot!

Ironhelm proceeds to save Bjorn, leaping at Magnus from behind with his power fist, sending all three down the mountain. When Magnus and Ironhelm land, they fight. Or rather, Magnus leans against the mountain while Ironhelm punches the gak out of him. But then...

"But then, just as before, he began to remember himself. From somewhere deep within, a new flame kindled."
- page 486

Ah yes, Magnus suddenly remembers "Oh wait I'm a Primarch" again. He proceeds to easily catch Ironhelm's power fist in one hand and destroy it, and clocks him in the jaw, and then proceeds to basically torture and dismember him with psyflame, before punching him again, killing him.

So yes, the fights were terrible. Not only did they rely on plot armour that ignored the opponent's powers, but they actually had a half-assed idiotic excuse; that Magnus "forgot" how powerful he was.

So yes, he did, in fact, crush Greyloc and his retinue, Sturmhjart, Bjorn, and Ironhelm, once he remembered his power. Deal with it.

Also, I'd appreciate it if someone who immaturely and impotently personally attacked me doesn't refer to me or my posts as "childish" within the same posts. Not because you doing so hurt my feelings mind you, but because I am a good samaritan, and it does pain me to see people defeat their own posts and arguments in ironic ways.

There is much ImAdeludedmagnusgfanboy POV it really pisses me off big time...I mean really, you sometimes can interpret things as you like but this is plainly stupid.....
Russ broke his back (in the old and in the new fluff ) - FACT, you can write YOUR theories how as much as you want to it doesn't change the fact Russ>Magnus (and this is pretty esablished fluff actually which guys on dakka had told gazilllion times)
Magnus is Ragnar's and Bjorns bitch - FACT - your argument "sw Novels suck is also briliant btw...

Don't drinking so much coke and coffe when posting...

 DarthMarko wrote:
There is much ImAdeludedmagnusgfanboy POV it really pisses me off big time...I mean really, you sometimes can interpret things as you like but this is plainly stupid.....
Russ broke his back (in the old and in the new fluff ) - FACT, you can write YOUR theories how as much as you want to it doesn't change the fact Russ>Magnus (and this is pretty esablished fluff actually which guys on dakka had told gazilllion times)
Magnus is Ragnar's and Bjorns bitch - FACT - your argument "sw Novels suck is also briliant btw...

Don't drinking so much coke and coffe when posting...

Calm down.

Your trolling is really getting out of hand these days Marko. You used to be more subtle, and far less irritable.

Magnus was beating Leman Russ, until a Chaos God aided the Wolf King. Also, Lorgar confirms that Magnus did not fight full-heartedly, and would have crushed Leman Russ if he went all-out.

Bjorn was nearly killed by a weakened Magnus though.

I actually have an argument though, supported by quotes from the novel.

Oh, and I forgot to address Garm: Leman Russ actually had to be saved by a Space Wolf from Magnus. Said Space Wolf sacrificed his life.

Abaddon would beat Draigo. Draigo defeated Mortarion because his anti-Daemon stuff is jacked up to 11. Abaddon doesn't have to fight him with Drach'nyen, the Claw of Horus was strong enough to completely ignore the armour of and then maim the GOD-EMPEROR OF MANKIND. Fluff-wise I'm pretty comfortable, as a Loyalist fanboy, to say that there's no marine (possibly except Bjorn if we count him) that would stand a fair chance against Abaddon. He's just too skilled and too powered-up.

EDIT: What is it with Thousand Sons and Space Wolves fans and never being able to have a civil argument? I mean, there's plenty of other "rival" factions that don't whine at each other, but every time we get Thousand Sons and Space Wolves in the same thread fecal matter hits the air-circulation unit.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Abaddon would beat Draigo. Draigo defeated Mortarion because his anti-Daemon stuff is jacked up to 11.

He defeated Mortarion because he was strong enough to throw a Primarch to the ground and scribble on him.

Abaddon doesn't have to fight him with Drach'nyen, the Claw of Horus was strong enough to completely ignore the armour of and then maim the GOD-EMPEROR OF MANKIND.

There was sort of a Primarch on the other side of that claw you know. His name was Horus, most powerful Chaos Lord to have ever lived.

Fluff-wise I'm pretty comfortable, as a Loyalist fanboy, to say that there's no marine (possibly except Bjorn if we count him) that would stand a fair chance against Abaddon. He's just too skilled and too powered-up.

He was beaten up by Eldrad in melee.

I mean, he's still very powerful, but nowhere near the pinnacle of Marine prowess that people tout him as.

All of these stories are just so exciting! Makes me want to read the books.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
EDIT: What is it with Thousand Sons and Space Wolves fans and never being able to have a civil argument? I mean, there's plenty of other "rival" factions that don't whine at each other, but every time we get Thousand Sons and Space Wolves in the same thread fecal matter hits the air-circulation unit.

Ask the guy who attacked me unprovoked. / shrugs

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Abaddon would beat Draigo. Draigo defeated Mortarion because his anti-Daemon stuff is jacked up to 11.

He defeated Mortarion because he was strong enough to throw a Primarch to the ground and scribble on him.

And because Mortarion is a Daemon Primarch and thus weakened by the mere presence of a normal, non-Justicar Grey Knight, nevermind the massive Grey Knight presence in the battle, not to mention the fact that he was fresh from carving up the previous Supreme Grand Master. Draigo won because he had more kryptonite than God, not because he's physically stronger than Mortarion.

Just to draw a comparison, Inquisitor Lord Hector Rex went one-on-one melee with An'ggrath the Unbound (who'd probably rank around Daemon Primarch in power, what with being Lord of Bloodthirsters and Guardian of the Throne of Skulls and all...) and won. Barely. By using An'ggrath's True Name and an impossibly powerful artifact Force Weapon. It's more or less the same thing, lots and lots of specialised gear and training to kill Daemons means you're going to be damn good at killing Daemons, but you'd still be a strong-ish Chapter Master against other marines, and only because of the psychic potential of the Grey Knights.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

There was sort of a Primarch on the other side of that claw you know. His name was Horus, most powerful Chaos Lord to have ever lived.

The point was that Abaddon wouldn't have to use Drach'nyen, the only Daemonic about Abaddon, to carve Draigo a new one.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Fluff-wise I'm pretty comfortable, as a Loyalist fanboy, to say that there's no marine (possibly except Bjorn if we count him) that would stand a fair chance against Abaddon. He's just too skilled and too powered-up.

He was beaten up by Eldrad in melee.

I mean, he's still very powerful, but nowhere near the pinnacle of Marine prowess that people tout him as.

Eldrad, as in the most powerful Farseer since... actually, that's a point (and I'm genuinely curious), is there ever a mention of a Farseer more powerful than Eldrad? I'm assuming there'd be some of them around pre-fall, but still...

I'd be interested on hearing how Huron Blackheart rates against the likes of Calgar, Grimnar, Helbrecht, Azrael etc

 Eetion wrote:
I'd be interested on hearing how Huron Blackheart rates against the likes of Calgar, Grimnar, Helbrecht, Azrael etc

noted