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I just do not seem to get any feedback. I am not sure what I did to not get any constructive criticism. Please let me know. After reading the Daemon codex more I realize I did not like to primary Daemons because I did not like the warp storm so much and the instability tests and finding out that BL actually only had base attack 1 not 2. There hell blades gave ap3.

DP of Tz, Wings, pow armor, black mace-265

CSM+10, 2 Meltaguns, meltabomb champ, trade bolter for ccw, Rhino, Dirge Caster,-205
CSM+10, 2 Meltaguns, mb champ, trade bolter for ccw, Rhino, Dirge Caster-205
CSM+10, 2 Meltaguns, mb champ, trade bolter for ccw, Rhino, Dirge Caster-205

Havocs, 3 AC, 1 LC-125
Havocs, 3 AC, 1 LC-125
Havocs, 3 AC, 1 LC-125

Daemon Allies:

DP of K, Exalted Gift (portaglyph), Flight, warp forge armor-250

BloodLetters+10=200
BL+10=200

ADL+Icarus LC, com relay-95

Total=2k

Field everything but 2 squads of 20 BL. Hope the com relay gets them both in turn 2 behind enemy line to be a nausiance. I wish my CSM can carry icons so the daemons wont scatter like they use to. Now, they just do drivebys with 2 melta guns. I geared them for assault even though rhinos are not assault vehicles. I gotta disembark the troops behind the rhino and form a rhino wall so that next turn I move the rhinos away and then assault. Ideally, I hope the BL are already engaging the enemy after deepstriking. Hope and pray the havocs can take care of flyers even though I know they cant.

Why don't you try taking Huron as your Warlord & infiltrate your blobs of BL instead of deepstriking your BL.

I've never relied on Havocs with AC to take care of my AA problem. Normally I used my Helldrake &/or Soul Grinder for that particular job.

why a daemon prince of khorne? wouldn't a bloodthirster be a MUCH better option? It's thirty points more, but much more killy!

Excuse me if i am wrong but can a coms relay be taken with an icarus las? i thought it was 1 upgrade only.

^^^ This. (regarding Bloodthirster)

-NM

Hrmmm might I rudely ask why you picked a dp of khorne rather than a bloodthirster? I know it is probably to fit into the 2k points cost but at that price, you are getting a monster spawner (that won't work half the time), wings and a 3+ save. Which honestly sounds like a bloodthirster. Along with that, the toughness of 5 really cripples the survivability of the MC nad makes it even more vulnerable to guns (especially tau which are all too popular). Just a curiosity personally.

I am not sure about what nymphomancer means by Noise Marine regarding bloodthirster.

I chose the DP of K since I was taking blood letters and it only cost 15pts more.I am not sure where to drop 30pts for a Bloodthirster. If I drop the powerful CSM DP with a black mace for a Huron then I will have the extra points. I am not sure if Huron can infiltrate a battle brother infantry squad. I thought it was limited to only CSM.

Did it really say I can only take 1 upgrade for the ADL? I thought it meant I can only have 1 gun.

huron's rule says you may infiltrate D3 troops. it does not specify codex specific.

swap out for huron and get a bloodthirsty. otherwise wicked list

Huron-160

CSM+10, 2 Meltaguns, meltabomb champ, trade bolter for ccw, Rhino, Dirge Caster,-205
CSM+10, 2 Meltaguns, mb champ, trade bolter for ccw, Rhino, Dirge Caster-205
CSM+10, 2 Meltaguns, mb champ, trade bolter for ccw, Rhino, Dirge Caster-205

Havocs, 3 AC, 1 LC-125
Havocs, 3 AC, 1 LC-125
Havocs, 3 AC, 1 LC-125

Daemon Allies:

Bloodthirster-280

BloodLetters+10=200
BL+10=200

ADL+Icarus LC, 85

Total 1915pts

Should I dare go double FOC for a 2nd ADL with Icarus cannon? How should I spend the 85pts? Make the BL get a lesser rewards and give pow swords to CSM? Or should I increase the bodies on the havoc squads?

I wouldn't go double force org.
If you way to spend points maybe a pack of cultist for 50
Bloodletters could take an instrument each to ensure they come on, and an icon to help place them by my count that's 1995

Do you really need that many marines in addition to the 40 BLs?

I'd suggest for you to drop 1 CSM sqd & take away the dirge caster from the 2nd Rhino.

Thus, you'd have enough points to:
1. take a Skull Cannon in order to help the cc-daemons work better when charging enemy units in terrains (in addition to the fire support role of course).

2. take a Helldrake


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And about Huron, he can Infiltrate d3 Infantry units in your army.

Since CSM & Daemons are battle brothers, they are treated as 'friendly units' for the targetting of psy powers, abilities and so on (BRB page 112).

As warlord traits are special abilities, it wouldn't be a problem for you to infiltrate both blobs of BLs.

plasma is good too. especialy since a TAS generaly will wreck your squad for five points cheaper, its better to use some plasma.

Need more heldrakes, and I think some Obliterators rather then three squads of havocs. Just my 2 cents.

I can trade 1 havoc squad for 2 unmarked oblits.

I can trade 1 csm squad for a skull cannon. However I will keep the dirge castor since it in invaluble for assaulting overwatch free.

I am not sure what to switch out for a drake. I could reduce a blood letter squad down and drop adl+i lc. Maybe even drop 2nd squad altogether for 2nd drake.

Huron-160

Csm+5, 2 meltaguns, mb champ, trade for ccw, rhino, dc-205
Csm+5, 2 meltaguns, mb champ, trade for ccw rhino, dc-205
Csm+5, 2 plasmagun, rhino-205

Heldrake-170
Heldrake-170

2 oblits, MoN-152
Havocs+1, 3 ac, lc-140
Havocs+1, 3 ac, lc-140

Allies cd
BT-250

Bloodletters+10=200

Total=2001
Total=

 Filch wrote:
I can trade 1 havoc squad for 2 unmarked oblits.

I can trade 1 csm squad for a skull cannon. However I will keep the dirge castor since it in invaluble for assaulting overwatch free.

I am not sure what to switch out for a drake. I could reduce a blood letter squad down and drop adl+i lc. Maybe even drop 2nd squad altogether for 2nd drake.

Huron-160

Csm+5, 2 meltaguns, mb champ, trade for ccw, rhino, dc-205
Csm+5, 2 meltaguns, mb champ, trade for ccw rhino, dc-205
Csm+5, 2 plasmagun, rhino-205

Heldrake-170
Heldrake-170

2 oblits, MoN-152
Havocs+1, 3 ac, lc-140
Havocs+1, 3 ac, lc-140

Allies cd
BT-250

Bloodletters+10=200

Total=2001
Total=

The 5 man squads can't have 2 special weapons.

I like the list, I may consider inflitrating BLs myself.

Its +5 more csm in addition to the 4 csm & 1 useless champion.

There use to be a time when I can 10x csm without champion upgrade.

10xCSM=130 which is improper since it implies I am paying the base price.
Csm+5=140 which accounts for the champ tax.

I've found regular CSMs to be a waste for the points they cost. I don't mean to be rude but I'd rather just take the 10man cultist x2 requirements and bring as much extra killy as I could. You could supplement in 2 decent chaos daemon troops if you are really concerned about objectives. But if they have no troops they can't score anyway. More things that kill. That's my .02

Lets say I put in 2x cultist squads which equal 100pts, how do I spend the 1900pts on the most killy units?

I read an article that recommended taking 4 squads of cultist just to be the minimal scoring units, then spend the rest on the most killy units. So I understand your suggestion of min maxing. What do I put besides 3 drakes? I dont think any of the walkers are killy. Dp with black mace seems the deadliest.

The only reason why I still run csm is bc I have them but I will greatly consider just 2 squad of cultist.

Nurgle Obliterators and termicide units(these I just put in if I have the points). I agree, a Tzeentch DP with the black mace is really the only way to bring a CSM DP, IMO. Bringing Typhus into the game and changing your CSM units into units of 6 Plagues is also clutch, 10 CSMs vs 6 PMs both units with 2x plasma guns, the plague marines come out 4 points more per unit. I'm not math guy but I also think they are more durable of a unit even being 4 men down in comparison. Not taking into account all the extra special rules you will be getting.

Definitely add drakes

Thanks for that but what about non-troops choice killy units? So I will fillout elite with termicide, and oblits for heavy, drakes for fast attack?

9-30 termi, 3-9 oblits, 3 drakes, 20 cultists, 2 dp hq.

Using this philosophy of minimal troops and max killy units, I think that is the best way to go about this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Definitely add drakes

Seriously, did you even look at the list with 2 drakes? I herby accuse you of spamming for failing to read many orininal poster's instruction on not wanting to use heldrakes in their list, not reading the latest list updates that added additional drakes, and finally not reading other commentors who already suggested a drake. You sir seem to glance at the first list, see no or just 1 drake and immediately post a quick reply without reading the following posts that may indicate any changes to the list.

Have you considered a blob of cultits with kharn the betrayer in the center? Brutal strategy.

Solid lists rarely get feedback. If you post a list and it falls off the table, your doing something right

* Greater rewards are awesome. They change your DP from being good to being --awesome--. They trump out the black mace any day of the week.

* I see why your bringing havocs. You want to avoid armor. I personally perfer predators or oblits, but I can see why your bringing them.

* I like where your going with the CSM. That's pretty cool. Using them to mid-board contest and objective grab. Are you worried about them being a bit to fragile with fearless? Fabius could make 2 squads fearless.

* How are your bloodletters working out for you? Honestly they are not the things I fear the most. I'm more scared of 20 daemonettes. The reason is the rending and the speed on the daemonettes.

* ADLs are becoming much less effective since Tau and Eldar dropped. What are you going to stick behind the ADL? Not your bloodletters. Your havocs? How many long range AP3 or better weapons are you seeing on the table today? Simply put, you don't need it. The only thing the ADL will do is give your rhinos a 4+ cover save on turn one, and then its just blocking your movement. Swap that bad boy out for a bastion to give your havocs real protection, and you can still hide your rhinos behind it.

* How are you getting a comm relay and a IC from one emplacement? On page 114 it says "Add ONE of the following"

* Greater daemons are better than DPs due to the T6 and other stat lines. A bloodthirster, even a naked one will do better than your DP.

* The portalglyph is turning into the n00b stomper tool. Good players will just blow it away. You have to plan on facing wave serpent armies, and it just wont survive there. The serpents can navigate to the those angles. In KP games its a negative thing to bring. I'd rather take 2 greaters any day of the week.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Goat wrote:
I've found regular CSMs to be a waste for the points they cost. I don't mean to be rude but I'd rather just take the 10man cultist x2 requirements and bring as much extra killy as I could. You could supplement in 2 decent chaos daemon troops if you are really concerned about objectives. But if they have no troops they can't score anyway. More things that kill. That's my .02

Before tau and eldar I would agree. Today 10 cultists are just waiting to get blown off the table. Seeker missiles and serpent shields FTL. CSM will stick around as they have their 3+ save.