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Praying to god that this is the last thread on the subject, I present the poll on Looted Wagons.
Dakkanaught Peregrine argues that it is a universally 'accepted convention' that Looted Wagons must be Rhino-sized vehicles only. I do not agree. This 'accepted convention' is the focus of the poll.
There is a thread discussing the matter here. I would highly encourage that anyone looking to vote on the poll take a look though.
As I expect Peregrine to come in here and argue his side of the discussion, I will open with a quick overview of why I do not believe that Peregrine is correct when he asserts that all Looted Wagons must be the size of a Rhino, as well as a another of what my understanding of his argument is.
~There is no rule with regards to Looted Wagons. We are not told that they must be X sized, or that they can be within X-Y.
~Under the Looted Wagon entry, we see references to Falcon Grav Tank, as well as Imperial Titans
~In previous editions, the Looted Wagon was simply the option to purchase any Imperial vehicle, up to and specifically including Land Raiders, Leman Russ, Basilisks, and other vehicles that are of different sizes to the Rhino or Chimera.
~The GWFAQ on Looted Wagon Boomguns refers to Looted Wagons in such a way as to indicate to me that all Looted Wagons are scratch built. This is not indicative of there being an official model size.
Q. How are the boomgun and other weapons mounted on a Looted
Wagon? (p54)
A. Players are free to mount the weapons on their converted or
scratch-built models however they see fit (i.e. in a turret,
sponson, hull or otherwise), as long as this is absolutely clear
by looking at the model.
~In the previous Looted Wagon discussion thread, eight members of dakka posted with an opinion to the effect of "anything up to and including a Land Raider", in several of those cases, such vehicles as a "Looted Monolith" were believed to be fine, and in one case, a "Looted Fortress of Redemption" was used as the upper limit in mockery of the restrictions. Meanwhile, whilst only one posted in favour of Peregrine's accepted convention, and in my opinion, not strongly so, though this number increased to two in another discussion. This seems strongly indicative that this is not an 'accepted convention' at all, but only Peregrine's personal opinion on the matter.
~That Peregrine has sofar presented exactly zero evidence of this 'accepted convention' existing, aside from quite literally 'because he says it does'.
My understanding of Peregrine's argument is as such;
~There is a forgeworld model of the Looted Wagon that is the size he suggests
~According to RAW, we cannot use scratch built models at all. So no Looted Wagons, assumably aside from the Forgeworld one as he believes Forgeworld to be a universally appropriate addition to the game (another 'accepted convention' perhaps?)
~The FAQ above is overruled by RAW, and according to him, is "not GW accepting scratch built looted wagons as permissable in the game", but merely the rules designers at Games Workshop "accepting that people will use scratch built vehicles even if they say they cannot, and thusly providing rules for them"
~There is an 'accepted convention' that Looted Wagons must be of the size of a Rhino.
If I have missed something, I am sure that Peregrine will point it out, and I will include it above. Finally, as Peregrine believes that his and my voices should count in any final tally, I have placed my vote in the poll.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/29 08:41:36
There's is no specific rule that says how large it should be, just as there was no role dictating the size of the battlewagon, drop pod, or defiler during the periods when they had rules but no official model.
That being said, I would somewhat agree with peregrine's assertion... While it's not exactly universal, there it's certainly a broad expectation that the wagon would be based on something more or less 'regular tank' sized. So rhino, chimera, falcon, etc would all be fine, but you might start getting funny looks with something land raider sized or larger.
BEFORE VOTING: THE OP OPENLY ADMITS THAT THEY WANT TO USE A LARGER MODEL BECAUSE IT CAN BLOCK LOSTO MORE MODELS BEHIND IT. THIS IS NOT A CASE OF "I MADE A COOL MODEL, CAN I USE IT".
My understanding of Peregrine's argument is as such;
You understand wrong. It's very simple:
1) RAW you can't use scratchbuilds at all (as they are not the appropriate Citadel model). However, the vast majority of players play with a house rule that scratchbuilds are acceptable, as long as they are a reasonable approximation of the real model and not an attempt to gain an advantage (better firing arcs, blocking LOS better, etc) by using a different model. The relevant part in this case is that a scratchbuilt model must have roughly the same size/shape as the real model to be legitimate (or you must agree to count it as being that size/shape if it becomes relevant).
2) The only official models GW have produced for a looted wagon have been either a looted Rhino or a Rhino-size vehicle.
3) The codex picture for the unit shows a looted Leman Russ, which is roughly the size of a Rhino.
4) The stats for a looted wagon are the same as a Rhino (AV 11, 3 HP).
5) There is another model (the battlewagon) which represents a larger vehicle (complete with higher AV, larger model size, etc).
Conclusion: a legitimate scratchbuilt looted wagon must be roughly the size of a Rhino, and using a bigger model because it blocks LOS better is textbook MFA.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/29 09:01:40
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
I just use a battlewagon and have the kitbashed Leman Russ carry a wagon for a terrible stealth pun.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
It should be "Roughly" the size of the rhino.
The BRB says something along that line on page 3, even to its about the bases it can easily be taken to be same for vehicles.
Ok, to emulate Peregrine's elegant style, though hopefully less crudely;
We're not discussing why I would like to use the wagon, we are discussing 'restrictions' that you wish to place upon the community at large
While blocking more LoSis of the ways that a larger Looted Wagon could be employed, you need to actually have a base official model in order to call one Looted Wagon "larger than normal." I don't say this to try and get off on a technicality, but because thats precisely what Peregrine is attempting to do ~ to straight up invent a 'legal model' for the Looted Wagon out of thin air, so he can smugly tell anyone with anything else to go take a hike.
I have only been arguing from the standpoint of someone who would want to use the vehicle for that purpose because I feel that choosing the larger of a number of permissable vehicle chassis, assuming there are more than one and that they are of different sizes (Rhino, Leman Russ, Land Raider etc), for whatever reason you like, would not be MFA of any kind. It would simply be a choice along the same lines of "Bolter, or Bolt Pistol and CCW?"
In reality, I would never use a Looted Wagon, because the Supa Kannon Big Trakk does the Boomgun better, and the Trukk and Battlewagon do the transport better, and the Heavy Support are much better spent on virtually any other choice. With regards to LoS, a Rhino will block the LoS that would matter to me (that of infantry) just as easily as a Land Raider simply by turning sideways, and I personally would draw the line at something like a Looted Monolith which is where the size would make a difference.
So in short, I'm doing this not to run a wall of Looted Monoliths to hide behind, but because you swaggered into a thread, as you always do, and cockily declared that the 'Rhino is the only legal model for a Looted Wagon and anything else is MFA' as though you are King of the Nerds and your word is law. You are wrong about this, the same way that your constant statements of "Assault has no place in 40k, you should be lucky they even include it" are also wrong, and I plan to show you that or go down in flames in the attempt.
You understand wrong
Actually, I was spot on, you've just added a few minor things which, like I said, I might miss. You just said that to try and discredit me a little, or just to be a jerk. I've tried my utmost to give you every courtesy in this thread, and I can't help but notice that the whole 'diss and discredit' tactic seems to be a hallmark of the "Peregrine team" (see posts by your buddy nkelsch)
Edit:
The BRB says something along that line on page 3, even to its about the bases it can easily be taken to be same for vehicles.
For anyone wanting to read this quote, assuming direct quotations of any size from the rulebook are even allowed;
The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base
they are supplied with. Sometimes, a player rnay have models in
his collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren't
supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness,
relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to
mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using
models of a similar rype as guidance.
To your post, I would reply that we are simply not given a basic vehicle from which to 'base' our Looted Wagon on. Someone could just say a "Leman Russ" or "Land Raider" is the base, and people are MFA for wanting to use a Rhino.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/29 09:32:38
Dakkamite wrote: We're not discussing why I would like to use the wagon, we are discussing 'restrictions' that you wish to place upon the community at large
And the fact that you omitted your reason for using a larger battlewagon skews the poll results. You present it as a case of "I have this cool model, can I use it" which is something people sympathize with, but who knows how many of those people would change their mind if they knew that your goal is just to block LOS better.
So in short, I'm doing this not to run a wall of Looted Monoliths to hide behind, but because you swaggered into a thread, as you always do, and cockily declared that the 'Rhino is the only legal model for a Looted Wagon and anything else is MFA' as though you are King of the Nerds and your word is law.
Nice straw man there. I've said many times that being roughly Rhino sized is the standard, not being a Rhino model. That leaves a lot of room for cool conversions, it just doesn't allow MFA by using a larger model to block LOS.
You are wrong about this, the same way that your constant statements of "Assault has no place in 40k, you should be lucky they even include it" are also wrong, and I plan to show you that or go down in flames in the attempt.
Sigh. You do realize that my dislike of assault-focused armies is an opinion, right?
(see posts by your buddy nkelsch)
Lol. There is no "Peregrine team", and nkelsch is just a random person I don't even know. Maybe you should consider the possibility that I'm not the only one who dislikes your blatant attempts at justifying MFA?
To your post, I would reply that we are simply not given a basic vehicle from which to 'base' our Looted Wagon on.
Nonsense. GW made a looted wagon model, and it was a Rhino. The codex picture shows a LRBT, which is roughly Rhino size. The stats given are those of a light transport vehicle like a Rhino. Meanwhile there is nothing at all that suggests that a Land Raider size model is appropriate, other than your desire to block LOS better.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base
they are supplied with. Sometimes, a player rnay have models in
his collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren't
supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness,
relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to
mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using
models of a similar rype as guidance.
To your post, I would reply that we are simply not given a basic vehicle from which to 'base' our Looted Wagon on. Someone could just say a "Leman Russ" or "Land Raider" is the base, and people are MFA for wanting to use a Rhino.
I think you're a little off base here, Dakkamite. I think you might have misunderstood the rules you quoted. That's talking about bases as in the slotta base (or what have you) that the model is physically attached to. It really doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on your argument. No worries though, it's an easy mistake to make.
I do agree with where you are coming from, and I think that a looted vehicle is fine at any size, so long as you are using an actual vehicle model from someone else's army, all orkified. I have no problem with orky land raiders, monoliths, or what have you.
That being said, this is the third or fourth thread I've seen you start in the recent past where you are seeking to garner support for a modeling project wherein the goal is to create models that give you an in-game benefit based on their physical profile. While in many cases, your motive might not matter, in questions of 'is it MFA?' motive is ALL that matters. If you are modeling your minis to gain an in-game advantage, then you are modeling for advantage, by definition. If you are modeling them to look cool, that's a totally separate thing. I'm not trying to throw rocks, but it's starting to appear like you're seeking justification for some chicanery. Even if your intentions are entirely on the up-and-up, then you must surely realize that to an outsider, it doesn't appear that way. I'm not trying to pass judgement here, brother, just pointing out what it looks like. If your minis are cool looking, I'll still play you. Just be careful not to burn too many bridges, is all.
Good luck with your army, and I hope this helps.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/29 10:07:59
Well it is called a looted wagon after all. If it looks appropriate I'd have no problem. I still remember a picture of a looted Wave Serpent... Hilarious!
As in older codex you were able to loot specific different vehicles (Land Raider included), anything between the size of Rhino and Land Raider must be acceptable. It is unreasonable to expect people to shelve their old looted wagons that were perfectly OK previously.
That being said, I would prefer a looted Land Raider or Monolith to be represented using Battle Wagon rules, as I find those might be more appropriate for vehicle of that size. But that is same way as I would, for example, prefer my opponent to have a painted army; there isabsolutely no rule requirement to do this.
An this is why Peregrine is wrong. He is (once again) claiming that his personal preferences are rules or universally accepted conventions. That's simply not the case. And of course the old 'you need a house-rule to allow conversions' is as much bs as always. You need a house-rule for conversions exactly as much as you need a house-rule for assembled models.
Peregrine wrote: 2) The only official models GW have produced for a looted wagon have been either a looted Rhino or a Rhino-size vehicle.
Does anyone know when the FW Looted Rhino model was released? I assume that's the one you are referring to.
Peregrine wrote: 4) The stats for a looted wagon are the same as a Rhino (AV 11, 3 HP).
That's not a convincing argument, honestly. Rhinos are not open-topped, as the Looted Wagon is, and there are other models that are AV 11/11/10, 3 HP. I could put wheels on a Dark Eldar Ravager, for example.
Peregrine wrote: 5) There is another model (the battlewagon) which represents a larger vehicle (complete with higher AV, larger model size, etc).
But that one has an official model, and isn't "supposed" to be looted/converted from other non-Ork models. Using a Land Raider as a Battlewagon could also be considered MFA, since Land Raiders are wider and thus expose less side armor.
Peregrine wrote: Conclusion: a legitimate scratchbuilt looted wagon must be roughly the size of a Rhino, and using a bigger model because it blocks LOS better is textbook MFA.
MFA implies intent, and thus cannot be settled by a hard rules decision in my opinion. I don't think there's anything illegal about using huge vehicles as your Looted Wagons. In principle I wouldn't oppose someone using their Looted Land Raider as a Looted Wagon - unless he was telling me about how he built and was running three of them specifically as cheap LOS-blockers for his boyz, or something equally TFG-eque.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/29 13:08:44
So I guess I should't model a Baneblade to be a looted wagon then.
Honestly the rule book does not say what the vehicle is or its dimentions so you could model it as anything you like. As long as the model is atleast partly a GW model you shouldn't have a problem in a tourney. Even if it is super cheesy.
To be honest, I'm a little disappointed that this has continued for so long. In terms of seeking out a generally accepted range, yes most people probably would be happy with a rhino to raider sized vehicle. But they would also typically expect it to be closer in range to a rhino as they're the same points & statline and the rhino is quite a common vehicle size.
However ultimately this whole situation is totally pointless. In reality if you play a person with some scratchbuilt models its on his/her willingness to let you use them. If for whatever reason they refuse to play you on the basis of your scratchbuilds, the short of it is you're out of a game. You cannot really expect to reference some online forum they're probably never heard of, where a dozen strangers presented their opinions to get a majority and think it will sway them. Yes I can see the point of just trying to find the common consensus so you know what to expect but I believe that that was found threads ago. Really all this has now amounted to is an effort to get someone to admit they're wrong (whether they are or not isn't important).
So as a conclusion to the question what I would say is this, for a 35pt AV11 looted wagon most people would expect it to be roughly a rhino sized vehicle due to its similar profile. Yes you can make one up to the size of a monolith but as you increase the size of it, the relative number of people who will graciously verse you will decrease. In order to play it safe, a rhino sized looted wagon would almost universally be accepted in casual play. A monolith sized one would detract players dependant on their opinion of your motives for making it so big and this can be mitigated through the quality of a conversion (rule of cool).
To look for a hard ruleset to define this, there isn't one. And so it's just based purely of expectations and these are developed from examples provided (FW model) and other peoples conversions.
And as to kain:
I just use a battlewagon and have the kitbashed Leman Russ carry a wagon for a terrible stealth pun.
Is it because the looted leman russ is towing a wagon, hence the wagon has also been looted?
If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush
Hmmm. Tough question. I don't, RAW-wise, see any reason to force Rhino-size on them. And while bigger vehicles can be used to better block LOS, they also make themselves a bigger target.
The "similar profile" argument doesn't cut it, imo. A Ghost Ark, e.g. has more hull points than Rhino yet loos far more fragile and has poor armor stats as well.
The only thing I consider completely unplayable is a Looted Necron vehicle as it's impossible to loot those and you would heavily break fluff, I wouldn't play such a person. But for the rest...I don't see a reason not to use bigger vehicles.
Anything over shadow sword/baneblade size is taking the mickey mouse.
I loved someones idea the other day about using a hammerhead. Allthough ide have it modelled being pulled along by squigs, as the orks cant figure out the Fish runes for the controls.
Latest Blog Post: 7th edition first thoughts and pictures.
Spoilered because these posts are getting really out of hand and oversized. Now you can read the thread and safely disregard at least part of the argument between Peregrine and myself, and rather make up your own minds
I think you're a little off base here, Dakkamite. I think you might have misunderstood the rules you quoted. That's talking about bases as in the slotta base (or what have you) that the model is physically attached to. It really doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on your argument. No worries though, it's an easy mistake to make.
Oh lol, I never realized the 'base' - base thing at all. 100% accidental. My point in regard to this is that with say, a Trukk, we have a base vehicle and if someone made that vehicle larger or smaller it would be an issue. But with a Looted Wagon, theres no original vehicle for things to really be larger or smaller than. If its the size of a Land Raider one person might argue, "hey, thats too big! Your guys can hide behind it!" but if its the size of a Rhino, someone else might say "hey, thats too small! Your boomgun can hide better in cover!". While the codex makes special mention of Rhinos and Chimeras as common looted wagons, it also mentions "tanks" as another good source of chassis ~ and the fact that I even have to argue that that means it doesn't have to be Rhino-sized is just plain sad.
That being said, this is the third or fourth thread I've seen you start in the recent past where you are seeking to garner support for a modeling project wherein the goal is to create models that give you an in-game benefit based on their physical profile.
Yeah, I notice that some people are having problems with this, however, those people don't really know the context. I can't blame them given the context of knowing the context, but still...
For the record, what I'm actually doing with my non-Rhino-sized Looted Wagon is making Land Battleships that can serve double duty as a Battlewagon or a Looted Wagon (or a Junka or Supa-Trak if the other guy is fine with it). My rule of thumb for scratch builds is that it needs to be able to represent several different units or its not worth the effort! Since it's the size of a battlewagon, perhaps a little longer, if the consensus is that larger than Rhino Looted Wagons are an issue then that rules out one of its possible uses for me, especially since it certainly blocks more LoS than a Rhino from the side.
Good luck with your army, and I hope this helps.
Cheers man, the lack of d-baggery in your posts is very noted.
That being said, I would prefer a looted Land Raider or Monolith to be represented using Battle Wagon rules, as I find those might be more appropriate for vehicle of that size. But that is same way as I would, for example, prefer my opponent to have a painted army; there isabsolutely no rule requirement to do this.
So would I actually. But not everyone else would, so if someone wants a shoddy old Land Raider with AV 11, they can be my guest.
Aww nobody figured out my pun... :(
"It's a wagon made fer fightin, or in dis case, battlin. I reckon we'ze gonna call it da battle wagon den"
Peregrine And the fact that you omitted your reason for using a larger battlewagon skews the poll results.
Ok Peregrine, whatever you say. First its 4-1 amongst individuals 100% aware of the utterly irrelevant 'situation', and now its 5-1 amongst the general population. You've got no excuse man. Just give it up. People are wrong sometimes, just accept that and let us use our Looted whatevers.
What I want to do with my Looted Wagons is irrelevant, utterly irrelevant. For starters, when I was referring to blocking LoS, it was obviously in a joking manner ~ its not like you need Intentions as Worded to figure that out. Anyone who would like to see the context, assuming they even care about this aspect of the argument (which they shouldn't), can find it here. Even if I did seriously want to make a LoS blocking wagon, if a range of chassis are available, selecting between them would be no different than choosing a Power Fist or a Power Sword ~ in one case, your options are "hide better in cover" (taken by 99% of people) vs "block more LoS" (taken by 1% of people), as opposed to "AP3 CCW" or "Double Strength, strike last, AP1 CCW". I consider neither choice to be MFA, because I personally think that Looted Wagons can go onto a number of different chassis each with their own strengths and weaknesses, just like the two weapon options I presented.
On top of that, I could be looking to make a Looted Wagon the size of the entire table and it wouldn't matter, because this isn't about what I do with the rule, its about you trying to control everyone with your bogus 'convention'. You didn't say, "make it any model within reason", no, you said it "make it the size of a Rhino because thats the accepted convention." And now that your having trouble finding any support for your convention, your just clutching at straws to give yourself a way to deny yet another landslide poll result.
Nice straw man there. I've said many times that being roughly Rhino sized is the standard, not being a Rhino model.
I guess my strawman extends to the poll question and other references to your PoV, that specifically mention "the size of a Rhino" and not "built only on a Rhino chassis". If I've let one slip through, I apologise, but thats easy to do since I must refer to your PoV several times per post - so don't make a fuss about it. I've made no effort to argue "A Rhino, down to the micron", even though that was originally what you argued. Oh look, whats this? Peregrine's original post on the matter? However did that get there? And look, the semantics of that post prove that he believes it must be a Rhino and only a Rhino because thats what "everyone" brings. Looks like the argument is over guys, we can all go home now;
Sigh. You do realize that my dislike of assault-focused armies is an opinion, right?
Then call your Rhino thing an opinion too, and we can call it a day. You are bandying both of them about with an elitist attitude and no actual backing from the RAW/RAI you draw so heavily upon for every other debate, and which you would certainly be quoting line after line of if your position had any backing whatsoever from the rules.
Lol. There is no "Peregrine team", and nkelsch is just a random person I don't even know. Maybe you should consider the possibility that I'm not the only one who dislikes your blatant attempts at justifying MFA?
Just making a casual observation that generally speaking, the people who have a problem with variable sized looted wagons also seem to have a problem with playing nice.
Nonsense. GW made a looted wagon model, and it was a Rhino. The codex picture shows a LRBT, which is roughly Rhino size. The stats given are those of a light transport vehicle like a Rhino. Meanwhile there is nothing at all that suggests that a Land Raider size model is appropriate, other than your desire to block LOS better.
Meanwhile, they specifically granted the Land Raider as a purchasable Looted Wagon a few editions ago, "GW" in this instance is Forgeworld, which not everyone agrees applies universally to 40k, that codex picture is 3" away from several choice statements such as "Looted Wagon is a catch-all term for the metal behemoths that are resurrected...", multiple references to "tanks" alongside the Rhino and Chimera as being primary sources of Looted Wagons, and even a titan, those 'light transport' stats don't match the Leman Russ which you believe to be an acceptable match and which is depicted in the codex, and on top of that, could easily represent an up-armoured civilian vehicle or trukk, or a worn down battle tank thats "temperamental as hell and a good deal less efficient than their previous incarnation" which you are now simultaneously arguing both for and against.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/29 13:04:51
Looted wagons can be any size, thats the point. They are looted vehicles from other armys that have been rebuilt. You can take ny think from any army and ork it up, ????? PROFIT
As in older codex you were able to loot specific different vehicles (Land Raider included), anything between the size of Rhino and Land Raider must be acceptable. It is unreasonable to expect people to shelve their old looted wagons that were perfectly OK previously.
But I'd be quite happy to play against a looted wagon modelled on a baneblade chassis, just don't get too upset when you're £70 (plus cost of other bits/plasticard, time/effort) get blown up by some autocannons on turn one and opening up quite a large hole in your lines.
Since there's an official model any scratch builds or conversions should be approximately the size of that model.
Just like Tervigon conversions made prior to the current release should be redone to be on the large oval base and the approximate size. Insisting on one but not the other is silly.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
There is no universally accepted size or build for a looted wagon.
I've seen everything from a gorkamorka era trukk mounting an Earthshaker to a monolith being hauled by grots, with a couple of big shootas.
I have no problem playing someone with either of these extremes, as the Looted Wagon is really not that tough. Larger oens will block LOS better, but they will also be easier to hit, and when they inevitably explode will take more of the guys around them with them.
Of course i'm not a hardcore tournament player. Might be the difference there, or not.
I feel the same way about my BW. I've been told that they can ONLY be set up the way they are on the box, or go home. This would result in identical looking boring BW, and the box doesn't actually supply rokkit launchas, wrecking balls, boarding planks, lobba, deffrollas ... The upgrade sprue covers some of these, but not all.
IMO bring what you like. GW has even displayed some awesomely HUGE looted Wagons from time to time on their website, so i doubt they have an issue with it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2 wrote: Since there's an official model any scratch builds or conversions should be approximately the size of that model.
Just like Tervigon conversions made prior to the current release should be redone to be on the large oval base and the approximate size. Insisting on one but not the other is silly.
Problem is, there is no longer an official model, and there has never been a non-FW official model for the looted wagon.
Not everyone considers FW to be 'model canon' for these things, but lets not get too deep into that kettle of worms.
Of course, i don't insist that people break up their lovingly sculpted/converted models to refit them on a new base just because GW dragged their heels, either
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/29 13:54:51
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
Dakkamite, how many threads will it take to convince you that seeking approval for your in-game shenanigans on the Internet is futile? How bad do you need to win? Are you even having fun anymore? or does losing a single model send you in to panic?
Here's a quick tip that will solve 90% of your issues: if you think you are "getting away with something", you're probably already in the wrong.
As always, Rule of Cool can prevail - a bunch of grots hauling a monolith around can look awesome. Plunking a monolith on the table with some orky scrawling and that's about it and trying to call that a looted wagon would have me frowning at least.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
rigeld2 wrote: Since there's an official model any scratch builds or conversions should be approximately the size of that model.
Just like Tervigon conversions made prior to the current release should be redone to be on the large oval base and the approximate size. Insisting on one but not the other is silly.
This is the second reference to an official model. Are you talking about the FW Looted Rhino? Because it is just that, a Looted Rhino. As far as I can tell, it's from 2005 or earlier, meaning it was made for the old codex - back when you could actually Loot a Rhino, and not just the generic Looted Wagon catch-all entry. It's no more official than the officially sanctioned converted Land Raiders.
rigeld2 wrote: Since there's an official model any scratch builds or conversions should be approximately the size of that model.
Just like Tervigon conversions made prior to the current release should be redone to be on the large oval base and the approximate size. Insisting on one but not the other is silly.
This is the second reference to an official model. Are you talking about the FW Looted Rhino? Because it is just that, a Looted Rhino. As far as I can tell, it's from 2005 or earlier, meaning it was made for the old codex - back when you could actually Loot a Rhino, and not just the generic Looted Wagon catch-all entry. It's no more official than the officially sanctioned converted Land Raiders.
Seeing as how it's not on the forgeworld site anymore there's no official model anywhere.
So nevermind, anything goes. But don't be surprised if your opponent declines to play against a significantly oversized (or undersized) model.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
16250 points 45/18/3 (W/L/D) 7th Ed
6250 points 9/3/1 (W/L/D) sixth-ed
3400 points 19/6/0 (W/L/D) 8' armybook
