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Ok so say I have a drone controller and target lock on my commander and he shoots at a ground target, do my drones then use his ballistic skill if they shoot at flyers?

I think this may be along the same lines as the counterfire defence system+drone controller argument, which is to do with at what point in shooting resolution the Snap Fire comes into effect, but I just wanted to get opinions!

It seems a bit much, and RAI probably not, but RAW?

Yes, they get his BS. Which against Flyers is a 1.

But his BS is 5 when he shoots...

RAW drones use DC commanders BS when they shoot,
which is 5 in this case. There's no exception for snap firing or what his ballistic skill 'would be' if he were shooting at the flyer.

Normally I just have fun and wouldn't even bother with dick moves, but I am going up against a hyper cometitive gamer who uses 2 helldrakes, so you can understand my need to get all the advantage possible

Without specific permission, snap shots can only be BS1. Drone controller does not grant specific permission.

"All [drones] in the same unit as a model with a drone controller use the bearer's Ballistic Skill instead of their own."

In this wording, I would argue that while the snap fire restriction is taking place, it is not important as the drones are not actually using their own BS for anything.

Altayre wrote:
"All [drones] in the same unit as a model with a drone controller use the bearer's Ballistic Skill instead of their own."

In this wording, I would argue that while the snap fire restriction is taking place, it is not important as the drones are not actually using their own BS for anything.

No they are using your Commanders BS. And wile shooting at Fliers your commanders skill will also be 1. Unless you equip him with Velocity Tracker, so he has the skyfire special rule. Then in theory you can shoot the fliers at BS 5 with the drones.

I can see what you are saying but in the Rule book it states that any unit targeting a Flier does so at at BS1. Unless they have the skyfire rule. Your drones have a BS of 5, But as soon as you target a flier that still drops to 1.

Just equip your battle suits with Velocity tracker. and fusion blasters, You are hitting his drakes on 4+. And glancing on a 4+ if he is stupid enough to get his helldrake within 9" of the suits, which if he uses a bale flamer is a great possibility. Then you are rolling Armour Penetration on 2 d6. And with an AP of one his drakes come crashing out of the sky on a 4+. Locked velocity on a 3+ and its only weapon destroyed on a 1 or a 2+. Taking fliers against a properly kitted out Tau army is a No go. And by the sounds of it this guy puts all his eggs in one basket with the Helldrakes.

cerbrus2 wrote:

Altayre wrote:
"All [drones] in the same unit as a model with a drone controller use the bearer's Ballistic Skill instead of their own."

In this wording, I would argue that while the snap fire restriction is taking place, it is not important as the drones are not actually using their own BS for anything.

No they are using your Commanders BS. And wile shooting at Fliers your commanders skill will also be 1.

I don't dispute that, my only issue is with the fact that my commander rarely shoots the same thing as the drones, so if he is shooting a ground target with BS5, then all that really comes into play as far as the rule is concerned is the drones are using the commanders BS, and right now that is 5.

cerbrus2 wrote:
Unless you equip him with Velocity Tracker, so he has the skyfire special rule. Then in theory you can shoot the fliers at BS 5 with the drones.

This way of thinking would actually support my statement, since the drones can use the commanders BS because he has the wargear that keeps his BS at 5 even when shooting at fliers, not the drones. They just use his BS, even though they would otherwise be snap firing.

Altayre wrote:

cerbrus2 wrote:

Altayre wrote:
"All [drones] in the same unit as a model with a drone controller use the bearer's Ballistic Skill instead of their own."

In this wording, I would argue that while the snap fire restriction is taking place, it is not important as the drones are not actually using their own BS for anything.

No they are using your Commanders BS. And wile shooting at Fliers your commanders skill will also be 1.

I don't dispute that, my only issue is with the fact that my commander rarely shoots the same thing as the drones, so if he is shooting a ground target with BS5, then all that really comes into play as far as the rule is concerned is the drones are using the commanders BS, and right now that is 5.

cerbrus2 wrote:
Unless you equip him with Velocity Tracker, so he has the skyfire special rule. Then in theory you can shoot the fliers at BS 5 with the drones.

This way of thinking would actually support my statement, since the drones can use the commanders BS because he has the wargear that keeps his BS at 5 even when shooting at fliers, not the drones. They just use his BS, even though they would otherwise be snap firing.

But he doesn't have the wargear that allows him to shoot at fliers with BS5. You have equipped him with target lock not velocity tracker and target lock.

I edited my previous post to show you just how easy Tau can deal with fliers. Have a read. And then you wont nee to try and Rule lawyer it anyway mate.

Does the Drone Controller mention modifying Snap Shots? No, so it doesn't do a thing for the Snap Shot firing drones. They will fire at BS1, no modifiers. Because the only rules that can modify the BS of a Snap Shot are the ones that explicitly state they can, such as the Skyfire rule, Counter Fire Defence System, or Markerlights. And the Drones have no such rule.

I know you can make a Tau list that easily destroys fliers, but I hate tailoring. There's no fun in breaking a list I am specifically set up to deal with, so I always keep my lists TAC. Anyway, that's beside the point.

The Drone Controller doesn't mention Snap Shots, but the wording implies it overwrites the drones BS completely.

Really I've seen several threads on here about drone controllers and how they interact, I think RAW it's feasable to say they overwrite it entirely so the drone always shoots at the same BS as the commander, but I can also see the other angle.

If you were to say the snap shot isn't affected, I would argue that drones attached to a commander with a velocity tracker doesn't confer the advantage to flyers, and counterfire defence system doesn't allow drones to shoot at BS2.

I can guess how they meant it to be played RAI, and it's something for the FAQ to clear up!

From the BRB FAQ:

"Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model's Shooting Attack (such as Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion's Voice of Experience)?(p13)

A: No."

Doesn't get much clearer than that. The BRB has a blanket ban on modifying the BS of Snap Shots that includes Special Rules that modify BS. The only way to get around the blanket ban is for the rule to specifically circumvent it. The Drone Controller doesn't, so the Drones are BS1 when firing Snap Shots. So no, neither the Velocity Tracker nor Counterfire Defence System extend their effects to Drones either. They specifically give their modifications to the model equipped, which is not the Drone.

My understanding is that snapshots do not modify the BS they are simply resolved at BS 1. This means it doesn't matter what you BS is, or even what it is modified to, in the end the snapshot is still resolved at BS 1. Your BS could be 2, then get +1+2-5+3-2+1-3+1, then get replaced by 5 for commander's drone controller, and your snapshot will still be resolved at 1.

I know you're probably annoyed by his cheesy use of 2 helldrakes but that doesn't mean you should try to bend the rules. Just have fun, grab an adl or a bastion w/quad gun and blast his hell drakes. Either that, get your own flyer or equip your battlesuits to fire at flyers, plus seeker missiles. I can think of a lot of ways to deal with helldrakes that are perfectly legal, effective and cheap.

The only way to modify the snapshot BS at a flyer is using markerlights or velocity tracker. As with most things, the easiest way to do it is rolling 6's, unless your using my dice, they hate 6's unless its leadership or a psyker test

The drones BS is the [drone-controller-bearing-model-with-the-Highest-BS-in-the-unit's] BS.

This is fact.

A [drone-controller-bearing-model-with-the-Highest-BS-in-the-unit's] BS, with a velocity Tracker, firing at a Flyer resolves its attacks at full BS.

The Velocity Tracker only effects the bearer.

A model firing at a Flyer fires with a BS1.

A drone within a squad with a model with a Drone controller has the same BS as the model with the highest BS+Drone Controller in the unit.

A Model with a velocity Tracker Fires at Flyers with full BS

A drone with a drone controller in the unit fires at the flyer with the most restrictive rule(minus any Available Modifiers); which is BS1.

Velocity Tracker only effects The model with the velocity Tracker(per its rules); so drone controller setting the BS of the Drone to "X", does not effect Rules that set the Attack to BS1.

Alternative easy read: Velocity tracker effects the model with the velocity tracker; Drones do not have velocity trackers(same with Counter Fire Defense System); therefore those models do not fire at the same BS in situations that call for snap fire as models in the unit with drone controllers.

TL;DR: Snap Shots Resolve their Shots at BS1, Drone controller does not counter that, ever.

 Penfold wrote:
The only way to modify the snapshot BS at a flyer is using markerlights or velocity tracker. As with most things, the easiest way to do it is rolling 6's, unless your using my dice, they hate 6's unless its leadership or a psyker test

Markerlights cannot be used to up your BS when firing snap shots. But the velocity tracker is a good solution.

 JEREMSTER wrote:

 Penfold wrote:
The only way to modify the snapshot BS at a flyer is using markerlights or velocity tracker. As with most things, the easiest way to do it is rolling 6's, unless your using my dice, they hate 6's unless its leadership or a psyker test

Markerlights cannot be used to up your BS when firing snap shots. But the velocity tracker is a good solution.

You might want to have a re-read of the Markerlight rules on page 68, specifically the last sentence of Pinpoint.

A Commander's Drone is BS 5 when using a Drone Controller. If the Drones targets a Flyer without the benifit of Skyfire he must use SnapShot rules, which put him to BS1.

/edit: a VT doesn't confir its benifits to its owners Drones so that doesn't get around it either.

I think if the model with velocity tracker and drone controller fires at the flyer then the drone can use its unmodified BS but even then, seems a little sketchy but you don't need drones to kill flyers anyway unless you're talking about interceptor drones haha

Altayre wrote:
"All [drones] in the same unit as a model with a drone controller use the bearer's Ballistic Skill instead of their own."

In this wording, I would argue that while the snap fire restriction is taking place, it is not important as the drones are not actually using their own BS for anything.

They become BS5 becuase of the commander.

They then fire at BS1 because of the hard to hit rule, forcing them to shoot snap shots.

DC makes drones with a commander BS5.
Like the commander, this is dropped to BS1 when firing at a flyer because of snapshot.

If the commander has a DC and vel. tracker, he fires at normal BS.
The drones however, do not as the ability from the tracker is not passed on.


Either way, you wont get drones to shoot a flyer down on better than a 6.

Just take missilesides or broadsides with trackers and have fun.

 Jackal wrote:
DC makes drones with a commander BS5.
Like the commander, this is dropped to BS1 when firing at a flyer because of snapshot.

If the commander has a DC and vel. tracker, he fires at normal BS.
The drones however, do not as the ability from the tracker is not passed on.


Either way, you wont get drones to shoot a flyer down on better than a 6.

Just take missilesides or broadsides with trackers and have fun.

Actually, gun drones almost hit on a 5.

Not really, but they hit 30% of the time mathemetatically. BS2 would only hit 33% of the time.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Jackal wrote:
DC makes drones with a commander BS5.
Like the commander, this is dropped to BS1 when firing at a flyer because of snapshot.

If the commander has a DC and vel. tracker, he fires at normal BS.
The drones however, do not as the ability from the tracker is not passed on.


Either way, you wont get drones to shoot a flyer down on better than a 6.

Just take missilesides or broadsides with trackers and have fun.

Actually, gun drones almost hit on a 5.

Not really, but they hit 30% of the time mathemetatically. BS2 would only hit 33% of the time.

There is no such thing as "almost Hitting on a 5"

They hit on a six, and 83.333% of the time, when they miss they get a second chance to hit(also on a 6). While that does grant an overall roughly 30.555% chance to hit; the score on the dice still has to be a 6 in either roll.

Almost hitting on a 5, you corrected my post for that? really?