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I'll play against people with forgeworld armies and vehicles, 99% of the time. There were a couple units I'm just not a big fan of from FW, but overall if you give me a good reason you're using it, then you can use it.

Troike wrote:Sure, I wouldn't mind. As long as they're within the points limits, I won't be awkward about it. You'll certainly make more friends, and thus get more games, if you're cool about this sort of stuff.

And hey, I've got Dominions. Should neutralise whatever powerful heavy armour they can bring using FW anyway.

Ave Imperator Sister!

Krellnus wrote:Provided they bring the rules for their FW stuff, or at least have access to an open copy of the rules as I would expect for any of the GW armies/units.

Seconded. Preferably hardcopy, for two reasons: One, FW books are beautiful and deserve to be bought, not stolen. Two, because I want to look too, and I hate tablet screens!

chromedog wrote:It's not the army but the player that makes me not want to play against it.

There was a guy in my club who claimed that the reason I never wanted to play him was because he used FW in his lists.

The actual reason was that he lied, cheated and whined and generally behaved like a 4 year old.

Did you say to him, "It's not FW, it's you. I'm sorry. It just can't work out between us."? :p

Anyway, the poll is skewed because a lot of people who selected "I will play against FW armies" probably also clicked "I will play against FW units." because it makes sense not to disinclude units. That would be like saying "I'm going to play Elysians, but I'm only going to use guard squads in valkyries and vendettas because FW units are ____."

So you end up with more votes for Units than Armies because some people don't like to play against FW armies, either because they think they're overpowered, or because they think they're so woefully under powered that it'll be a steamroll instead of a fun game.

The poll results only reflect a small portion of people that even post on dakka, which is a small portion of people that visit the site and has no known relationship to the broader group of people that play 40k.

Polls are a fun and interesting part of forums but they have no statistical framework that can be used to examine their validity.

I do find it highly amusing that GW often will not let you use FW models in their own stores or in their tournaments. Not the response you would expect if GW considered them to be officially part of the 40k and whfb rules with no exception like some people argue here.

JWhex wrote:
I do find it highly amusing that GW often will not let you use FW models in their own stores or in their tournaments. Not the response you would expect if GW considered them to be officially part of the 40k and whfb rules with no exception like some people argue here.

No, it's exactly the response I'd expect because I don't have the idealistic belief that GW stores exist to be good places to play games. They exist for the sole purpose of selling models (preferably to new players), and it hurts that goal if you have people come in and see awesome models that they can't buy immediately. Just look at GW's obsessive secrecy about new releases, they're paranoid about losing the impulse buy if people get a chance to think about their purchases before handing over their money.

And of course by the standard of "what GW allows in their official stores" you aren't allowed to use unpainted models, conversions with non-GW parts, conversions mixing WHFB/40k and LOTR models, etc. And of course based on their tournament rules there's a limit on how many points your allied detachment can contain. But I don't see anyone rushing to demand a cap on allied points just because GW's tournament rules say so, FW legality is the only time anyone cares what GW's tournaments do.

JWhex wrote:
I do find it highly amusing that GW often will not let you use FW models in their own stores or in their tournaments. Not the response you would expect if GW considered them to be officially part of the 40k and whfb rules with no exception like some people argue here.

GW stores exist solely to bring people into the hobby, but are run by people slaved to a ridiculous sales quota. Gaming space at a game store is basically seen by the manager as advertising space - if people walk in and see someones awesome Space Marine army on the table doing battle with Orks, they potentially will want to not only start the game, but play one of those races.

You have an environment where GW managers don't want Forgeworld models used in store, because they are advertising a product he does not sell, and even if he special orders it, does not go to his sales quota. That potential new player might see a Contemptor Dreadnought and only wants to start because of that model, and thus asks to buy that model, the GW managers new recruit has contributed nothing to him keeping his job. Worse still if two people are having a Horus Heresy game. Not only will they be advertising something the manager can't sell or doesn't contribute to his sales quota, but entire armies of that product.

You don't see this in independant stores because in general, they will special order anything if there's profit in it for them. My FLGS doesn't stock maxmini products as standard, but were quite happy to do an order for me for a single product I wanted - they even tacked a few on for the store, since they were making the order anyway. I payed slightly above the conversion rate I would have paid myself, and didn't incur shipping. If someone sees me in the store using that model, and asks them to order it, they can and will, because it gives them money and they don't have a ridiculous sales quota to fill that only certain products contribute to.

GW stores not allowing Forgeworld products are basically the store manager taking a hardline attitude to selling only GW products that contribute to his sales quota.

As I myself own an unhealthy number of FW materials I'd be hypocritical if I didn't.

JWhex wrote:
The poll results only reflect a small portion of people that even post on dakka, which is a small portion of people that visit the site and has no known relationship to the broader group of people that play 40k.

Polls are a fun and interesting part of forums but they have no statistical framework that can be used to examine their validity.

I do find it highly amusing that GW often will not let you use FW models in their own stores or in their tournaments. Not the response you would expect if GW considered them to be officially part of the 40k and whfb rules with no exception like some people argue here.

As others have noted, GW stores are there to push product on the shelf and have specific sales quotas that FW does not fulfill. GW no longer runs tournaments (at least not anything larger than a store tournament and with the closing of the bunkers and moving to 1 or 2 table shops they don't have the room for them), and when they did, they were run by the people in the marketing department to push core sales channels. You couldn't run Special Characters in them for almost a decade either.

I would always play against FW-40k.
More variety is a good thing.

And sure, you have some OP models from Forge World.
But you also have OP models from the GW-codex
People that will always combine the overpowered GW and FW stuff because they want to WAAC will quickly find themselves uninvited from matches.

I even ran a tournament two weeks ago where FW was allowed.

No Heresy stuff, superheavies or gargantuans but most of the rest was allowed. The main caveat was that it had to have rules that WERE published in a book (so no experimental rules) and that they (players) had to bring a copy of the rules/profiles for their FW stuff in addition to their normal lists.

We had 4 armies use it(FW). They ranged from Tau tetras, sensor towers and barracuda (pre-IA3e2) to Thunderbolt/lightning, Krieg deathrollerdrill things and a single Spartan Land Raider.

Someone raised a possible issue about the Spartan still being experimental (it's in IA12) but that was overruled by the player with a copy of the book.

Nobody playing had a problem with any of the units (at least they didn't grumble to me and I overheard no player banter badmouthing it). So it's not necessarily the FW stuff that's the issue around here.

I will play against anything people can bring to the table.

If I have to go against a superheavy in normal 40k, then so be it.
Then I have something nice to aim at

in my humble experience you tend to see more of the units/models than the actual army lists...

take the IG armoured list, it is mediocre but fun, however you can 'bend' things by tacking it on to a codex IG army (so you can get veterans ) and no one would be the wiser- until that is they find out that the HQ vanquisher is BS 4 and likes to take pot shots at any big tank... however i've yet to run it like that, personally it feels better- codex ig for the infantry and the amroured list for the tanks fluffy and competitive (sort of...) at the same time .

though as long as you bring all of the relevant books i have no problems...

With GW's policy on FW you could cause serious embarresment if you wanted to be an arse- take the IG hydra. The model is in the codex yet the model is only avaliable from FW, the jab would be 'you want to ban me from using a codex unit just because its an FW model? pull the other one'

the same could also apply to chaos dreadoughts whoops 'helbrutes' to an extent... though that is just me being a subversive

most whine because the FW player has either beaten them soundly or has acted in a bad way- its all down to the players involved at the end of the day...

I see a lot of these type of thread a lot recently.... how odd.. but on topic. Sure why not unless it is crazy op like some few stuff is.

I will play against anything from forge world, since I use stuff from forge world. I really don't see what the big issue is if you have the rules for the unit with you.

Of course I'll play against them. As long as they're 'approved' and not 'experimental' then they're part of the game, and refusing to play them would simply be refusing to play the game by the rules. Banning someone from using a legal unit/army is effectively cheating. As long as they can provide you with the rules from the appropriate book for the unit, what's the problem? Man up!

yes

I don’t mind people using the odd unit (as long as it’s got the 40K stamp in the book). Indeed, I find it quite refreshing to see new units on the board. I do however, find it quite annoying when you come across someone who is using an entire FW army, (Red Scorpions for example) which then have all manner of rules that make them overpowered. I have no problem if people ask you first, you can then write a list accordingly. I do find it pretty moody to turn up to a ‘random’ game with such units though. I think that there is a very grey area here that GW & FW need to address in more detail.

RivenSkull wrote:


yes

Nailed it!

 Klueless wrote:
I don’t mind people using the odd unit (as long as it’s got the 40K stamp in the book). Indeed, I find it quite refreshing to see new units on the board. I do however, find it quite annoying when you come across someone who is using an entire FW army, (Red Scorpions for example) which then have all manner of rules that make them overpowered. I have no problem if people ask you first, you can then write a list accordingly. I do find it pretty moody to turn up to a ‘random’ game with such units though. I think that there is a very grey area here that GW & FW need to address in more detail.

I think it's nice if you agree to a game to then tell each other at that point what army you're bringing - be it GW or FW.

There are a fair few army builds in the dex's that are every inch as powerful (if not more so) than FW armies.

Taking a flying bakery against eldar.
Wraithwall against a bolter heavy army.
The 10 tervigon list.

All of these can lead to less fun - it comes down to agreeing what sort of game you're playing.
Fun list vs TAC vs comp.

Get that decided from the off and its always more fun in the game.

I'm all for it. Bring the latest rule book and have the models, like I do, and we'll play!

I'd be more than happy to play against FW armies/units as long as they have the rules and don't mind me having a look at them before the game so I know roughly what I'm up against. I would expect the same if I ever can afford FW stuff.

When I use FW - I take with me

The Eldar Codex and FAQ.
IA11 and the FAQ.
BRB and FAQ.
Aeronautica - haven't seen an FAQ.

Showing someone my rules can take an hour becuase of good books/cool pictures...

I put that many books on the table, theres no room for toys

I hate clicking things.

The topic, and some of the responses, has got me thinking though. Most often, when I buy something from FW (and I have a pretty hefty amount of FW resin), I've made the decision to buy when I first see it, long before I have any idea what the rules will be. Most everything I've bought has been because I saw it and, based on the visuals, or the concept, I've thought to myself "Man, that's cool. I want to put that in my army." The Wraithseer, for example. I play Ulthwe, so how could I see that and not jump all over it? The single largest category of stuff I've bought has been dreadnaughts, because the chapter/legion specific ones are just so blasted nice. I prefer my Warhounds to be armed with the weapon arms that look coolest, to me. Same for the Stormblade I bought well before Apocalypse ever came out, I never expected to use it back then, but a huge tank with a massive plasma gun just had the look that appealed. I bought a buttload of XV-89 suits because they look so much better, so I wanted them to have a heavy presence in my Tau army. So, everything I've bought from FW is conversion pieces that have no game value, but make my army look cooler, units chosen and bought because they look so nice that I just want to have them in my army, or stuff that I got because the idea was so cool to me that the rules simply didn't matter.

Heck, when something comes along that looks neat enough that I buy it turns out to have rules that are juuuust a bit too good, I get a little embarrassed fielding it, and tend to compensate by using less than optimal units elsewhere in my army. The Necron Night Shroud, for example. I've wanted it since I first saw the pics, and when Necrons get their turn in my painting queue, I'll get one, but I'll probably field a bunch of Praetorians and Lychguard alongside it, when I do put it on the field.

The option I'd go with isn't in the poll, so I just checked the last box.

I have no problem with playing FW units or armies at least once per se - for me, it depends on the player's attitude and sportsmanship. Some of the FW models look rather neat and characterful, and might make for a fun game. So, if they ask politely whether they can use Forgeworld stuff in a game, I'll bite. If however they just presuppose that their lists are just as legal as a Codex one ... no.

I may reserve the right to say no to specific units or armies if I get the feeling they're OP, but from all I have heard so far, it doesn't sound like this would be the case.

I have no problem with them, I really do like their models and its great to play against well modeled/well painted armies. As long as they have the rules for it, not a printout of a scan PDF, I want the book. Its a personal thing there. If its one or two units I dont mind printed PDF, but if its a whole army of FW, I want a book.

Yep, if it is 40k approved. I do like to see the IA on the unit, just so I understand what I'm playing against. I have known a person or two that would bend a rule in their favor if they thought they could get away with it.

People spent money on these wonderful toys, they should get to use them.

Just because GW has dumb management practices and does not include them in the new codexes is not reason to deny people having fun to play them.

Most of the time, I have found the FW units (with a couple of rare exceptions) to be overcosted or balanced, so no biggie.

The horse.










It is dead.

fluffstalker wrote:
The horse.

It is dead.

There so needs to be a meme of McCoy kneeling next to a horse.

 motyak wrote:

TechMarine1 wrote:
Yes, but NO super heavies.

I don't think there are any 40k legal superheavies, so that wouldn't be an issue. If I'm off someone can correct me

Spearhead?

I've no problem playing against a fw unit or army. I myself have a dkok army and none of the people i've played against minded. There is this misconception amongst some folk that fw units are over powered.. i've yet to read any rules or play against anything fw thats seems to show this. If anything there are 2 non-fw armies that i have a problem with.. Necrons and Grey Knights. And thanks to the stupid allies rules they can now team up!

 Regnak wrote:

 motyak wrote:

TechMarine1 wrote:
Yes, but NO super heavies.

I don't think there are any 40k legal superheavies, so that wouldn't be an issue. If I'm off someone can correct me

Spearhead?

I've no problem playing against a fw unit or army. I myself have a dkok army and none of the people i've played against minded. There is this misconception amongst some folk that fw units are over powered.. i've yet to read any rules or play against anything fw thats seems to show this. If anything there are 2 non-fw armies that i have a problem with.. Necrons and Grey Knights. And thanks to the stupid allies rules they can now team up!

Ah I meant in vanilla 40k, sorry that I didn't specify.