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Hello Guys!
Its been a while since I last posted here, haven't had a good Internet connection lately. This is my first post in about three months or so.

But to the point. I have been having trouble with my 500pt skaven army, not sure whether it sucks or I do (probably a bit of both).
Here's what I've been fielding:
20 clanrats with spears and shields, full command.
20 clanrats with shields, full command and poison wind mortar.
Chieftain with weeping blade
10 Night runners with night leader.

I mostly been playing against chaos warriors, here is the approximate list:
10 chaos warriors with additional hand weapons and mark of khorne
10 chaos warriors with additional hand weapons
Champion with mark of nurgle

Thus far my tactics have been to rush the night runners forward into combat with the champion and his unit and hope they survive long enough for my chieftains unit to hit them in the flank. The other clanrat unit hangs back to reinforce their fellows, and take potshots at the khorne unit.
In the three games I've played however, the chaos warriors have utterly smashed my units in the first turns of combat. My chieftain always dies by default when his unit is over run or flees off the board. The best I've managed to do is kill five khorne chaos warriors with a lucky poisoned wind shot.

What am I doing wrong? Something tells me I should lose the night runners, right now I'm paying 70pts for what is essentially a suicide unit.
If I do have to replace something I would rather use on of the units I already have. Here are the models I own but are not currently fielding:
2 rat ogres, master moulder
Warlock engineer
Warpfire thrower
10 more Night runners (for a total of 20)
7 Gutter runners

Is it possible to make a good list from these models?

I hope I am not being a pain by posting this here, I just don't know who else to ask. If you think that I'm asking stupid questions feel free to ignore this thread.

Thanks!

500points.. is so hard to make D: you barly can get anything due the % needs.

General: chieftain keep nice and cheap about 20pts of equipment
BSB: chieftain again a little bit of protection

Core:
40 slaves, musician

40 slaves, musician

40 slaves, musician


Rare:
Warp lightening cannon

Keep one block at back with both chieftains in about 10 inches from other units, send other 2 blocks at opponent and keep firing cannon into biggest threat. You could add a caster for magic

Definitely take 5 gutter runners with slings, poisoned attacks. They're not going to be as effective against Chaos Warriors as they are against elves, but they should do fine, especially since they can enter from anywhere on the board.

Models with crap strength and low WS like clanrats could probably benefit more from HW and shield going up against units like the WoC you mentioned. That 6+ parry save could save a couple more a game and could help you keep those ranks for Strength in Numbers.

Also, in my experience, the Warpfire Thrower gets us much better mileage for points than the Poisoned Wind against smaller units. And if a single model dies to it, the unit that isn't frenzy will have to take a panic test.

You may need to take some Stormies or something instead. I'll see if I can respond with an actual list when I get a few minutes to crank one out.

Engineer with doom rocket. 45 points of win!

That plus something close to khsofsos' list is solid imho.

Thanks for the help guys!

@khsofsos
That list sounds pretty tough, but is there a way to build a army with what I already have? It doesn't have to be super competitive or any thing, just as long as defeat isn't certain the moment I place my models on the table. I don't mean to sound impudent or anything, I'd just prefer not to have to drop another 100 dollars or so on an army I'm fielding for fun.

@epy346
Okay, I'll replace the night runners with gutter runners, the poisoned wind mortar with a warp fire thrower and the spears with hand weapons. I was thinking of buying storm vermin anyway, so this works out well.

@mixer86
I've heard of the doom rockets effectiveness from other players but have never seen it in action. If I was to field it when should I use it and what should I point it at?

Thanks again for all your comments everyone!

Well its a large blast at Str 5 with armour piercing, and range is 4/5 D6 IIRC?

I've seen it used turn 1 but i think turn 2 against the enemy's biggest unit IMHO.

you can shoot it (or stand and shoot as well) by picking a "target" (that is, any point wherever, no limitations) and deciding to roll between 4 and 10 d6 for range
if you roll 3*1s or more, it misfires in some way
otherwise it goes boom at its range for a big blast S5
so yeah, point it at something big (ideally 14 inches away while shooting with 4d6).
You can shoot at a close combat as well as it should "accidentally" hit your intended target (which is different from your designated one)

Ok...
This is what I see...
As far as your list shown you are 42 points short of 500.
I will try to keep it short.
20 Clara's w/spears and shields command. 120pts
Warp fire thrower. 75pts
40 slaves 80pts
40 slaves. 80pts
20 slaves. 40pts
2x warlock engineers 30pts
Chieftain sword of might enchanted shield 70
Use your numbers...skaven are meant to outnumber their opponent. Your list is essentially 1 for one on his list.
Put the engineers in the 2 both large slave units. Put the chieftain with the clan rats. Trying to keep the chieftain opposite side from the exalted hero
Make him come to you. Shoot his units with the warpfire
thrower preferably the unit with the character...warpfire does d3 wounds. Push wide with 2 units. Force him to turn to face them or take the flank charge.
If you can Get the chieftain in combat on the flank you will win by numbers before striking.
Another strong option is drop the chieftains Gear and take a level 1 engineer warp lightning as default will be strong and with any luck scorch. He will have no answer to the magic.
Or drop the 20 slaves and trade them for poison wind globadiers. And lob them in with the slaves.
Plague censers can be devastating as well. Toughness test before any combat and strength 5 3 attacks each first round rerolling misses.

The important thing is to Remember every unit he loses hurts him...skaven always die just have enough to soak it up.

THanks for the doom rocket advice! I'm saving it all in a document named skaven for future reference.

Ok...
This is what I see...
As far as your list shown you are 42 points short of 500.
I will try to keep it short.
20 Clara's w/spears and shields command. 120pts
Warp fire thrower. 75pts
40 slaves 80pts
40 slaves. 80pts
20 slaves. 40pts
2x warlock engineers 30pts
Chieftain sword of might enchanted shield 70
Use your numbers...skaven are meant to outnumber their opponent. Your list is essentially 1 for one on his list.
Put the engineers in the 2 both large slave units. Put the chieftain with the clan rats. Trying to keep the chieftain opposite side from the exalted hero
Make him come to you. Shoot his units with the warpfire
thrower preferably the unit with the character...warpfire does d3 wounds. Push wide with 2 units. Force him to turn to face them or take the flank charge.
If you can Get the chieftain in combat on the flank you will win by numbers before striking.
Another strong option is drop the chieftains Gear and take a level 1 engineer warp lightning as default will be strong and with any luck scorch. He will have no answer to the magic.
Or drop the 20 slaves and trade them for poison wind globadiers. And lob them in with the slaves.
Plague censers can be devastating as well. Toughness test before any combat and strength 5 3 attacks each first round rerolling misses.

Technically my list is one on two with his list, but I get your point. I guess i'm going to have to buy two more IOB's worth of skaven. Thanks for the list, I'll save this too.

Doom rocket is done best when you skitterleap it into the opponent army's flank early game. You might want to put it back a bit somewhat. Depends how he deploys. He doesn't have many units making him very weak to a flank.

In my opinion outmaneuvre him. Just deploy in a longer line. Alternatively if you have slaves just use them to bait him into the fight. He has mark of khorne on one of his units. Make him regret the frenzy. He will be forced to run after a unit if you flee from combat. Electing to flee with slaves can be a good thing. If they panic they only panic other slaves. It's sort of a good situation for you.

If possible with your clanrats if they're about 8 inches or so away from the warriors just march them outside of his line of sight (you will have to take a leadership test for marching while so close to him though) and keep shooting and magicking him to death. He will be forced to turn to face you and then you can blast him with warpfire throwers or more spells unless he wants to get flanked. Alternatively you can make sure he always has over 10" and maybe 12" to make a successful charge against you. Sure he might make it but you could always flee and the likelihood of a failed charge is much more likely.

Warpfire throwers are fine. According to some they're not great but they can push the battle in your favor. It's just not always a sure thing. Remember you can shoot into combats that include your slaves though they probably won't last more than a couple combat phases even if you do have a chieftain with BSB and something boosting their leadership.

Not really a fan of night runners at all. You can drop them if you wish.

This is just my opinion and i'm far from the best skaven player. Ask warpsolution as that's the best player for skaven to my knowledge.

All depends how you play it really, you can use the doomrocket to great effect, and its something i do pretty often

I'd go a slightly different way though.

Plague priest: Dscroll - 125
30 slaves - musician - 62
30 slaves - Pawleader - 64
20 Plague monks: banner - 150
6 Plague censer bearers - 96

3 Points remaining.

Use the slaves to block them / hold them up, then run the plagues together as a 2 part hammer.

Its amazing just how good plague monks are, and what damage they can do.
Would be nice if points permitted a banner though.

The censers are the real killers though.
18 S4, magical attacks, and before those, everyone in base contact needs to take a toughness test or take a wound with no saves.
The best bit? this counts for combat res, and is resolved before anything

The priest is there because he has to be really, but his basic breath weapon will work wonders aswell (and works in combat too!)

Failing that, swap him for a basic warlock and a plaguclaw for 10 points less, but some ranged damage.

 Jackal wrote:
All depends how you play it really, you can use the doomrocket to great effect, and its something i do pretty often

I'd go a slightly different way though.

Plague priest: Dscroll - 125
30 slaves - musician - 62
30 slaves - Pawleader - 64
20 Plague monks: banner - 150
6 Plague censer bearers - 96

3 Points remaining.

Use the slaves to block them / hold them up, then run the plagues together as a 2 part hammer.

Its amazing just how good plague monks are, and what damage they can do.
Would be nice if points permitted a banner though.

The censers are the real killers though.
18 S4, magical attacks, and before those, everyone in base contact needs to take a toughness test or take a wound with no saves.
The best bit? this counts for combat res, and is resolved before anything

The priest is there because he has to be really, but his basic breath weapon will work wonders aswell (and works in combat too!)

Failing that, swap him for a basic warlock and a plaguclaw for 10 points less, but some ranged damage.

If you do censers it's best to flank the warriors of chaos since he's fighting that. Plus it'd be good for him to fight with what he's mentioned he's got. I don't think he has any plague monk units so that'd be quite the money throwdown for him. Also censer bearers strike at Str 5 but only on the first turn and they have hatred. Basically they're a unit that hits hard first round of combat but then everything goes downhill from there unless they're fighting knights possibly. In many cases you'd have to rely on flanking the enemy with them and they're probably best used when the enemy is stuck in contact with an unbreakable unit or a unit that won't break for a few turns (like plague monks pushing a plague furnace). Their initiative is about average and yes it does matter. It's also worth noting that since their weapons are considered magical you can't use 'bless with filth' on them. I use to do that with great effect but not it seems it's illegal and invalid.

@warhammer_4: I think if you use night runners that you should deploy them on the side and use slinking advance if you use all 20 in a unit.

Gutter runners normally aren't the most fantastic thing because they're skirmishers so will never have ranks. That said considering all the room at 500 points that you'll have you can probably use 'scouts' and start the game fairly near his warriors of chaos and use night runners to march up the sides. For now at least i'd take the gutter runners without poisoned attacks. Slings shouldn't be too bad but poisoned attacks in that point range is just bad. People normally use them as war machine killers and such when equipped with poisoned attacks but it's a bit much for now. I think that with gutter runners you should deploy far enough away from your warriors of chaos enemy that not only would he need to reform to face your guys but the charge he makes would most likely fail (leaving him out in the open to fight the rest of your horde).

Warpfire throwers are disgusting (disgusting good) against warriors of chaos but it has to hit and it has to not blow up for at least one turn or two.

The rat ogres will most likely die unless you flank with them.

Chieftain might need a better weapon. Dunno.

The way i think of this is that it matters more for you to take advantage of movement and having more units. You don't really have enough points for any nasty units.