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Ok, as all BA players know, Mephiston is horrible. One of the powers in the book (That Mephiston Has) is Sword of Sanguinious, which makes the user S10. The sad thing is, it doesn't affect AP.

This leaves Mephiston and other Librarians w/ Force Swords at S10 AP3, which does not fare well in many challenges. This is mainly for Mephiston though, as he is way overpriced for only having an AP3 Weapon.

A fix would be this:

Sword of Sanguinious allows the user to treat his attacks as S10 AP2.

Thoughts?

Lucarikx

So, basically you want overpowered kill everything without breaking a sweat Mephiston from 5th ed back?

Not really, I just want him to be balanced. Also, if this change is made, AP2 still isn't a guarantee, as you have to pass the Psychic test first.

Additionally, MCs, Rune Priests, and 3 Plasmaguns still slap Mephiston silly all time. Heck, right now, a Riptide can beat Mephiston in assault.

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:
Not really, I just want him to be balanced. Also, if this change is made, AP2 still isn't a guarantee, as you have to pass the Psychic test first.

Additionally, MCs, Rune Priests, and 3 Plasmaguns still slap Mephiston silly all time. Heck, right now, a Riptide can beat Mephiston in assault.

Lucarikx

He is more balanced now than in 5th, he just requires a bit more finesse to use. I.E don't run him into Hamminators and expect to win.

 Lucarikx wrote:
Not really, I just want him to be balanced. Also, if this change is made, AP2 still isn't a guarantee, as you have to pass the Psychic test first.

Additionally, MCs, Rune Priests, and 3 Plasmaguns still slap Mephiston silly all time. Heck, right now, a Riptide can beat Mephiston in assault.

Lucarikx

Yeah, an Ld10 test is such a good balance for it. Really? Don't even try to pass that off as a balance.

And no, I think you want to just be able to run him into anything and have him kill everything without trying. He is balanced now, you want him unbalanced.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
Not really, I just want him to be balanced. Also, if this change is made, AP2 still isn't a guarantee, as you have to pass the Psychic test first.

Additionally, MCs, Rune Priests, and 3 Plasmaguns still slap Mephiston silly all time. Heck, right now, a Riptide can beat Mephiston in assault.

Lucarikx

He is more balanced now than in 5th, he just requires a bit more finesse to use. I.E don't run him into Hamminators and expect to win.

I'll disagree to that, for his points cost he's not balanced. The cost outweighs his current potential.
I don't think he needs a fix, sometimes things are just bad/not as good.

That said though I don't think he's balanced with his cost.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
Not really, I just want him to be balanced. Also, if this change is made, AP2 still isn't a guarantee, as you have to pass the Psychic test first.

Additionally, MCs, Rune Priests, and 3 Plasmaguns still slap Mephiston silly all time. Heck, right now, a Riptide can beat Mephiston in assault.

Lucarikx

He is more balanced now than in 5th, he just requires a bit more finesse to use. I.E don't run him into Hamminators and expect to win.

I'll disagree to that, for his points cost he's not balanced. The cost outweighs his current potential.
I don't think he needs a fix, sometimes things are just bad/not as good.

That said though I don't think he's balanced with his cost.

Units like Mephiston are a hairsbreadth away from useless or broken. In Mephiston's case, he could be AP2 and cheaper, but he'd need to lose T6 and a variety of other things for him to be even remotely balanced.

I know theres threads about Meph out there, but this is for all the BA libbys, not just him. Many other Libbys are better costed(DA Libbys) and can take better wargear/Psychic powers(SM, DA, SW).

Making SoS AP2 allows our Libbys to be different than the others, better in CC rather than as a support role.

Truthfully, if Mepiston got a point decrease, he would be worth it. 250 for a model that can't kill 2+ armor saves is a joke. If he was around 175-200, maybe.

Lucarikx

I'd only let it be AP2 if the strength increasde was decreased or non-existant

even then, only begrudginly

I play blood angels and.. honestly he was broken before he's usable now in games considering theirs exactly ONE type of unit he cant kill in the game easily don't charge him into terminators? there are plenty of other targets any vehicles/non terminator infantry most armies other than marines don't have a lot of 2+ saves in the first place many other times you don't see them in massive numbers anyway Adapt Overcome Annihilate brethren..

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
Not really, I just want him to be balanced. Also, if this change is made, AP2 still isn't a guarantee, as you have to pass the Psychic test first.

Additionally, MCs, Rune Priests, and 3 Plasmaguns still slap Mephiston silly all time. Heck, right now, a Riptide can beat Mephiston in assault.

Lucarikx

He is more balanced now than in 5th, he just requires a bit more finesse to use. I.E don't run him into Hamminators and expect to win.

This.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lucarikx wrote:
I know theres threads about Meph out there, but this is for all the BA libbys, not just him. Many other Libbys are better costed(DA Libbys) and can take better wargear/Psychic powers(SM, DA, SW).

Making SoS AP2 allows our Libbys to be different than the others, better in CC rather than as a support role.

Truthfully, if Mepiston got a point decrease, he would be worth it. 250 for a model that can't kill 2+ armor saves is a joke. If he was around 175-200, maybe.

Lucarikx

My tau commander is designed to survive everything but the toughest blows to the head.

A S10 AP2 attack from a 100 pt Libby? That's a pretty hard blow to the head.

Lysander has a S10 AP2 hammer. He has to strike at I and this guy made the warp his bitch. Why should a puny Libby get such power?

No. You don't want balance, you just don't want to have to play Mephiston properly.

Eldercaveman wrote:
He is more balanced now than in 5th.

Lulz, if you say so, but I digress.

S10 Ap2 would be a bit to much, unless maybe it required 2 warp charges. A better solution would be +2 strength ap2 or something similar.

Why does he need to be AP2? Having terminators be a counter to him is balance.

 Lucarikx wrote:
Heck, right now, a Riptide can beat Mephiston in assault.

Lucarikx

This statment is as wrong as it is rediculus.

Meph kills a riptide in 3 rounds statisticly, it matters not if he is charging it is still 3 rounds, my math didn't account for the plasma pistol shot, hammer of wrath, or unleash rage(which he wouldn't have the first turn to save a warp charge for the force sword but would in later rounds of combat).

By contrast it takes a riptide 9 rounds to kill meph, or 8 rounds if he were to charge meph.


Mephiston just isn't assault and win anymore he takes skill and fore thought to use well. The only thing he really HAS to avoid is 2+ save units with AP 2 weapons, or eternal warrior ICs with 2+ saves.

 Lucarikx wrote:
I know theres threads about Meph out there, but this is for all the BA libbys, not just him. Many other Libbys are better costed(DA Libbys) and can take better wargear/Psychic powers(SM, DA, SW).

Making SoS AP2 allows our Libbys to be different than the others, better in CC rather than as a support role.

Truthfully, if Mepiston got a point decrease, he would be worth it. 250 for a model that can't kill 2+ armor saves is a joke. If he was around 175-200, maybe.

Lucarikx

BA now get Dante and Astorath with Power Axes, AP2 but all stuck down at I1.

For this to work it would have to be 2 Warp Charge points, OR if you pass the Psychic Test on a 5 or below it becomes AP2.

 Phiasco II wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
He is more balanced now than in 5th.

Lulz, if you say so, but I digress.

S10 Ap2 would be a bit to much, unless maybe it required 2 warp charges. A better solution would be +2 strength ap2 or something similar.

What makes you think he isn't more balanced now than in 5th?

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Phiasco II wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
He is more balanced now than in 5th.

Lulz, if you say so, but I digress.

S10 Ap2 would be a bit to much, unless maybe it required 2 warp charges. A better solution would be +2 strength ap2 or something similar.

What makes you think he isn't more balanced now than in 5th?

Sorry, that was poor communication on my part. I was lulzing at the idea that he is balanced now. He can't reliably get around the bored, he can't survive the kind of shots/hits that will be coming his way (ap 2 or better), he has to run away from elite CC units and even decent CC HQ's. Yes, he has the stats of a monstrous creature, but he is priced like one as well. He's priced higher then a lot of monstrous creatures. So if he's priced like a monstrous creature, and has stats like a monstrous creature, why can't he have Ap2 like every other monstrous creature in the game?

That being said, I don't think Sword of Sanguinius should be S10 Ap2 when every librarian in the C:BA would have access to it. Maybe S+2 and Ap2 or something similer, and definitely 2 warp charges.

What about *just* AP2? Still makes Meph a good CC fighter, and doesn't completely break the game for regular Libbys.

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:
What about *just* AP2? Still makes Meph a good CC fighter, and doesn't completely break the game for regular Libbys.

Lucarikx

stamp of approval

Seems like a good idea to me.

 Lucarikx wrote:
I know theres threads about Meph out there, but this is for all the BA libbys, not just him. Many other Libbys are better costed(DA Libbys) and can take better wargear/Psychic powers(SM, DA, SW).

Making SoS AP2 allows our Libbys to be different than the others, better in CC rather than as a support role.

Truthfully, if Mepiston got a point decrease, he would be worth it. 250 for a model that can't kill 2+ armor saves is a joke. If he was around 175-200, maybe.

Lucarikx

Njal Stormcaller's 270pts (with Termie Armour) and he can't bypass 2+ saves. Hell, he can't even bypass 3+ saves (in CC obvs).

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
I know theres threads about Meph out there, but this is for all the BA libbys, not just him. Many other Libbys are better costed(DA Libbys) and can take better wargear/Psychic powers(SM, DA, SW).

Making SoS AP2 allows our Libbys to be different than the others, better in CC rather than as a support role.

Truthfully, if Mepiston got a point decrease, he would be worth it. 250 for a model that can't kill 2+ armor saves is a joke. If he was around 175-200, maybe.

Lucarikx

Njal Stormcaller's 270pts (with Termie Armour) and he can't bypass 2+ saves. Hell, he can't even bypass 3+ saves (in CC obvs).

Take away Njal's 24" 3+ psykic power deny, his wounds deamons on a 2+ weapon, his board-spanning area of effect psyker powers, his invulnerable save, and his status as an independent character and then we'll talk. That being said, Njal may be overpriced as well, but that doesn't mean Mephiston isn't.

 Phiasco II wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
I know theres threads about Meph out there, but this is for all the BA libbys, not just him. Many other Libbys are better costed(DA Libbys) and can take better wargear/Psychic powers(SM, DA, SW).

Making SoS AP2 allows our Libbys to be different than the others, better in CC rather than as a support role.

Truthfully, if Mepiston got a point decrease, he would be worth it. 250 for a model that can't kill 2+ armor saves is a joke. If he was around 175-200, maybe.

Lucarikx

Njal Stormcaller's 270pts (with Termie Armour) and he can't bypass 2+ saves. Hell, he can't even bypass 3+ saves (in CC obvs).

Take away Njal's 24" 3+ psykic power deny, his wounds deamons on a 2+ weapon, his board-spanning area of effect psyker powers, his invulnerable save, and his status as an independent character and then we'll talk. That being said, Njal may be overpriced as well, but that doesn't mean Mephiston isn't.

Not saying he's useless by any means of course, but just making a point.

Fair enough.