Will this thing put GW out of business?

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**Loborocket**

I have gone in with a few guys at work and we are buying a 3d printer. It should be in the office in a few weeks. I am looking forward to seeing what it is capable of. At the very least I am sure I will be able to make some terrain pieces and bases. If in can do fine enough work I can maybe make some weapon load outs.

Once I have some stuff I will post to my gallery.

**adamsouza**

What printer did you get, and is it 100 or 25 micron Capable ?

**Loborocket**

adamsouza wrote:
What printer did you get, and is it 100 or 25 micron Capable ?

We are getting the makerbot replicator 2. It can go down to a 100 micron layer. I think it should have no problem making good looking terrain pieces and probably some bits. Maybe a combi weapon or 2.

http://store.makerbot.com/replicator2.html

**adamsouza**

I had considered getting a Markerbot brand printer myself. Decided to hold out for something in the 25 micron capable range.

I'm that the rest of the reader of this thread, and myself, would be interested in seeing anything you create with it

**Loborocket**

adamsouza wrote:
I had considered getting a Markerbot brand printer myself. Decided to hold out for something in the 25 micron capable range.

I'm that the rest of the reader of this thread, and myself, would be interested in seeing anything you create with it

We got this one because we all work for Autodesk and Autodesk is a partner with Makerbot so we got a pretty healthy discount on the printer. Once you factor in the number of us "investing" the cost per person is pretty low. $100. After that it, is just material costs, which are pretty low on this particular machine.

**RiTides**

I'm surprised the Form 1 hasn't been mentioned yet... it's supposed to be able to hit 25 microns, too, I believe. I'm waiting on one

but they're behind schedule, I really hope it ships in the next 2 months.

**FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs**

Is 25 microns what shapeways uses for the frosted detail?

Is 25 microns good for 28mm, 1/72, or 15mm?

**Enigwolf**

I have things from Shapeways. 25 microns is not good enough for miniatures without making it look as though your miniatures were made from stone.

**adamsouza**

I was under the impression that shapeways is 100 micron.

The 25 micron printed stuff I've seen was smooth

**Wolfstan**

Interesting little bit of info on the BBC news website:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22984875" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22984875

Stratasys buys 3D printing firm MakerBot for $403m
MakerBot, the company that sells "affordable" 3D printers, has been acquired by industrial 3D printing giant Stratasys.
The companies said it was a stock-for-stock transaction worth about $403m (£260m).
The deal will allow Stratasys to compete in the burgeoning consumer market for 3D printing, said experts.
But it has surprised some commentators, given that MakerBot has sold just 22,000 3D printers to date.
Retail store
MakerBot was co-founded by former school teacher Bre Pettis in 2009 and quickly became synonymous with low-end 3D printing.
Its $2,200 (£1,400) Replicator 2 is its most popular machine, favoured by hobbyists and manufacturers who use the machines to build prototypes and parts.
Ford Motor Company is one of its more high-profile customers.
The firm also runs a highly-successful community site which has become a leading marketplace for 3D printable digital models.
The site has more than 90,000 files which are downloaded about a million times each month.
Recently MakerBot opened a retail printing store in New York.
Design blueprints
"The last couple of years have been incredibly inspiring and exciting for us," said Mr Pettis in a statement.
"We have an aggressive model for growth, and partnering with Stratasys will allow us to supercharge our mission to empower individuals to make things using a MakerBot, and allow us to bring 3D technology to more people."
Stratasys's cheapest 3D printer is the Mojo which costs $10,000 (£6,500).
Some analysts believe the tie-up was an admittance that it could no longer compete with MakerBot in the consumer market.
" Stratasys is planning to grow into the consumer space," said IDC analyst Arnaud Gagneux.
"Soon the issue will move to the ownership of the design blueprint, licensing the designs, very much like the copyright issues with movies and music.
"Makerbot's online service, Thingiverse.com, helps address this issue about what objects consumers want," he said.
Whether the tie-up will represent the first step towards mass adoption of 3D printers in homes, remains to be seen, he thinks.
"We see clear niches for these devices in workshops, with architects, for short run prototypes and customised products," he added.
"However, in the current economic climate there are no indicators that households would prioritise this technology above other personal IT devices or leisure activities."
MakerBot will operate as a subsidiary of Stratasys and Bre Pettis will remain in charge.

**Loborocket**

Wolfstan wrote:
Interesting little bit of info on the BBC news website:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22984875" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22984875

Stratasys buys 3D printing firm MakerBot for $403m
MakerBot, the company that sells "affordable" 3D printers, has been acquired by industrial 3D printing giant Stratasys.
The companies said it was a stock-for-stock transaction worth about $403m (£260m).
The deal will allow Stratasys to compete in the burgeoning consumer market for 3D printing, said experts.
But it has surprised some commentators, given that MakerBot has sold just 22,000 3D printers to date.
Retail store
MakerBot was co-founded by former school teacher Bre Pettis in 2009 and quickly became synonymous with low-end 3D printing.
Its $2,200 (£1,400) Replicator 2 is its most popular machine, favoured by hobbyists and manufacturers who use the machines to build prototypes and parts.
Ford Motor Company is one of its more high-profile customers.
The firm also runs a highly-successful community site which has become a leading marketplace for 3D printable digital models.
The site has more than 90,000 files which are downloaded about a million times each month.
Recently MakerBot opened a retail printing store in New York.
Design blueprints
"The last couple of years have been incredibly inspiring and exciting for us," said Mr Pettis in a statement.
"We have an aggressive model for growth, and partnering with Stratasys will allow us to supercharge our mission to empower individuals to make things using a MakerBot, and allow us to bring 3D technology to more people."
Stratasys's cheapest 3D printer is the Mojo which costs $10,000 (£6,500).
Some analysts believe the tie-up was an admittance that it could no longer compete with MakerBot in the consumer market.
" Stratasys is planning to grow into the consumer space," said IDC analyst Arnaud Gagneux.
"Soon the issue will move to the ownership of the design blueprint, licensing the designs, very much like the copyright issues with movies and music.
"Makerbot's online service, Thingiverse.com, helps address this issue about what objects consumers want," he said.
Whether the tie-up will represent the first step towards mass adoption of 3D printers in homes, remains to be seen, he thinks.
"We see clear niches for these devices in workshops, with architects, for short run prototypes and customised products," he added.
"However, in the current economic climate there are no indicators that households would prioritise this technology above other personal IT devices or leisure activities."
MakerBot will operate as a subsidiary of Stratasys and Bre Pettis will remain in charge.

IN conjunction with this announcement Makerbot announced it has plans for a consumer level laser digitizer due out in the fall. You can then potentially put something (a model) into the digitizer, and just basically press the "copy" button and get a 3d print of the thing out of the printer. I have seen some pretty good looking stuff 3d printed from a "digitized" model made with Autodesk's 123d Catch. This allows someone to take a series of pictures of an object from a variety of angles and a 3d model is synthesized out of this. It works better on larger scale objects like monuments or buildings, but I would expect this new laser digitizer to work at a much smaller scale and produce reasonable results. Something to watch for sure.

**silent25**

Well the printer listed in the original post is being view pretty much now as a hoax by most tech experts, this interesting little one just showed up on KS.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pirate3d/the-buccaneer-the-3d-printer-that-everyone-can-use

Is basic filament, but clocking in at $400, is about as close to bargain hobbyist as your going to get these days. Is the equivalent of the Makerbot 2 and here are the stats for the curious.

**adamsouza**

Crap, it looks like I'm about to be out $497 for a printer and 10 cartridges

**Ouze**

The Buccaneer seems intriguing, but I think plastic extrusion isn't where I'd invest my money.

**FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs**

Enigwolf wrote:
I have things from Shapeways. 25 microns is not good enough for miniatures without making it look as though your miniatures were made from stone.

What do you mean by "made of stone"?

**Shandara**

Fairly rough texture.

**Trasvi**

I've ordered a few test parts from Shapeways, and I think you must be talking about a different material.

Their 'Strong, White, Flexible' (cheapest material) is indeed pretty rough.

However their Frosted Ultra Detail (highest detail/most expensive 'plastic') is quite smooth, and has a resolution of 100 microns. The pieces I have blend in seamlessly with my models, but the striations are still slightly visible so won't take drybrushing super well.
They also needed a bit of cleanup, and (worst of all) the shipping to Aus makes it non-viable.

**Color Sgt. Kell**

No, this will definitely not put GW out of buisiness. I mean think about it, no one is going to buy one of these unless you're a big company. Even then, getting the exact schematics for a perfect mold must be hard. But I can possibly see companies getting one of these and making illegal figs. I really think they'd get the old cease and desist very quickly from GW though. So anyway you look at it, at least right now, this isn't feasible.

**Enigwolf**

Trasvi wrote:
I've ordered a few test parts from Shapeways, and I think you must be talking about a different material.

Their 'Strong, White, Flexible' (cheapest material) is indeed pretty rough.

However their Frosted Ultra Detail (highest detail/most expensive 'plastic') is quite smooth, and has a resolution of 100 microns. The pieces I have blend in seamlessly with my models, but the striations are still slightly visible so won't take drybrushing super well.
They also needed a bit of cleanup, and (worst of all) the shipping to Aus makes it non-viable.

If you look at the details of the process for it, the Frosted Ultra Detail has already been cleaned up/smoothened out as part of the support material removal process.

**TheAuldGrump**

Honestly... I think that this machine (or, more accurately, whatever it's grandchild looks like) is more interesting for original fabrication than trying to copy GW - it would be great for terrain, but only so so for miniatures of people or critters.

The Auld Grump

**[So]Rice**

Here is a picture of some 3-D printed and painted models.

All the detail you would expect in a regular miniature is there. After primer it's exactly like any other figure. There is a lot of detail not captured with the painting (it was done mid-level for commission).

**-Loki-**

To be blunt - those look terrible. Detail is mushy and very sparse compared to even some of the worst 3rd party bits makers out there.

Granted, this could be in the base model used to create these, but they're terrible as an example of showing off what these printers can do. Gat anything better?

**adamsouza**

Those look just as good as the Plastic Orlocks and Goliaths that Necromunda came with.

They do not look grainy and stone like as other posters suggested.

**-Loki-**

adamsouza wrote:
Those look just as good as the Plastic Orlocks and Goliaths that Necromunda came with.

That's the problem. Looking like 15 -20 year old single pose plastics isn't much of an accomplishment these days.

adamsouza wrote:
They do not look grainy and stone like as other posters suggested.

I wasn't suggesting this - merely asking for better examples of what these printers can do. If the best they can do is that, companies casting models don't have anything to worry about yet.

'Good for gaming' seems like a catch-all phrase meaning 'looks like garbage'.

**Enigwolf**

adamsouza wrote:
Those look just as good as the Plastic Orlocks and Goliaths that Necromunda came with.

Which, as has already been pointed out, is about a decade old. They lack the detail fidelity of more recent releases.

They do not look grainy and stone like as other posters suggested.

Because you can file the surfaces down or just cover it with a thick enough coat of paint. I want to see the models fresh off the printer.

**McNinja**

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
It will take a while before the 3D scanners and printers, programming knowledge, and materials will pay themselves off. $2800 for the printer alone? A couple hundred squads should do it...

That's not even including the cost of the material needed to make all of those squads... the actual cost of printing those few dozen squads will be more than the $2800.

**Enigwolf**

McNinja wrote:
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
It will take a while before the 3D scanners and printers, programming knowledge, and materials will pay themselves off. $2800 for the printer alone? A couple hundred squads should do it...
That's not even including the cost of the material needed to make all of those squads... the actual cost of printing those few dozen squads will be more than the $2800.

ABS/PLA is relatively cheap.

**Loborocket**

-Loki- wrote:

I wasn't suggesting this - merely asking for better examples of what these printers can do. If the best they can do is that, companies casting models don't have anything to worry about yet.

'Good for gaming' seems like a catch-all phrase meaning 'looks like garbage'.

You may not think these look so great, I actually don't think they look all that bad (glass half full or half empty). I do think this is something companies casting models need to start thinking now about now. How are these devices are going to change the way they do business? Perhaps they are already thinking about it, they would be foolish not too? I think it would be a mistake to dismiss these devices outright as a non-threat. Instead figure out how to monetize the technology for yourself. How can the business change based on this? How can we make money with this?

I may have stated before in this tread or another like it, imagine if there was something like a GW authorized "design studio" type of application where a customer could design a custom model from some predefined parts created by GW. Maybe have the ability to do some basic posing of the parts/model and perhaps some custom base options, then allow the customer to "print" the custom model. Right now the consumer grade tools might not be adequate to do this but maybe a more commercial grade 3d printer could be set up to produce acceptable models?

Maybe GW has already looked at something like this and don't think they could make money or the technology is ready YET (but in my opinion it is close). It will be ready in the not too distant future. the question is how will GW react.

**PhantomViper**

Lets put it this way:

Paper printers have been around for how long now?

How soon will books become extinct?

Heck, the biggest threat to the printed press doesn't come from home printers, it comes from digital equivalents.

So it stands to reason that the biggest threat to miniature companies doesn't come from these 3D printers (and the current miniature quality that we can get out of these really is awful btw), it comes from digital games, and these have been around for over 30 years! I think that GW, PP et all don't have any reason to be shaking in their boots just yet!

How much does a single 28mm costs to print in one of these anyway? And how long does it take?

**Enigwolf**

PhantomViper wrote:

How much does a single 28mm costs to print in one of these anyway? And how long does it take?

Couple of bucks, if you're just counting cost of material and not amortizing the fixed costs as part of the model. It can a few days up to a week, depending on model detail, printer, micron level, and type of printing.