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So, I'm sitting here with a new box of these lovely undead constructs in front of me, and can't decide how to assemble them. I'd like to hear some insight on the various strengths and weakness of the different builds, and in what sort of army they work best.

My thoughts thus far:

Scythes: absolutely devastate marines, and no one will ever want to charge them. This might be a good unit to join a Spiritseer, as these fellows are really expensive and the conceal helps to keep them alive. However, as they've no use for the Seer's spirit mark, you need to keep this unit close to the intended targets of you other wraiths if you do so. This unit must absolutely have a serpent if they ever want to shoot anyon. It might still be difficult to keep enemies in range once you've left the transport and vapourised the first enemy unit.

Cannons: Short range, kills things. I think Fire Dragons are still slightly better at tank killing, but these guys can do the job well enough and are way more durable. Thanks to ID, terror of various monstrous creatures as well. However, I'm not sure if they're worth their points against infantry heavy armies. These things need expensive targets to one shot.

Swords: Two attacks at S6. These will chop PA really nicely. Still, you need to get them into combat somehow first. Spiritseer could be useful for conceal, but in CC he'll be challenged and killed. I don't like that.

Axes: Invulnerable save is certainly the selling point of these. And sure they've got AP2 and extra strength too. Still, I'm not sure they're that hot. They've got just one attack at ini 1. Extra point of strength doesn't matter against most foes, AP2 allows them to kill terminators, but I'm not sure I want them in combat with termies to begin with. At least the hammer terminators will destroy these guys so fast its not even funny.

 Crimson wrote:
So, I'm sitting here with a new box of these lovely undead constructs in front of me, and can't decide how to assemble them. I'd like to hear some insight on the various strengths and weakness of the different builds, and in what sort of army they work best.

My thoughts thus far:

Scythes: absolutely devastate marines, and no one will ever want to charge them. This might be a good unit to join a Spiritseer, as these fellows are really expensive and the conceal helps to keep them alive. However, as they've no use for the Seer's spirit mark, you need to keep this unit close to the intended targets of you other wraiths if you do so. This unit must absolutely have a serpent if they ever want to shoot anyon. It might still be difficult to keep enemies in range once you've left the transport and vapourised the first enemy unit.

Cannons: Short range, kills things. I think Fire Dragons are still slightly better at tank killing, but these guys can do the job well enough and are way more durable. Thanks to ID, terror of various monstrous creatures as well. However, I'm not sure if they're worth their points against infantry heavy armies. These things need expensive targets to one shot.

Swords: Two attacks at S6. These will chop PA really nicely. Still, you need to get them into combat somehow first. Spiritseer could be useful for conceal, but in CC he'll be challenged and killed. I don't like that.

Axes: Invulnerable save is certainly the selling point of these. And sure they've got AP2 and extra strength too. Still, I'm not sure they're that hot. They've got just one attack at ini 1. Extra point of strength doesn't matter against most foes, AP2 allows them to kill terminators, but I'm not sure I want them in combat with termies to begin with. At least the hammer terminators will destroy these guys so fast its not even funny.

If scythes were not a massive point increase i would take them hands down....as it is I am torn between them and regular guard.

As I said in another thread I think I will take wraithguard for tank killing over firedragons. I would rather shoot str 10 at 12" than go for melta range with dragons....it is still a toss up with ap1 but I just like wraith guards more than dragons as well (looks wise and theme)

I've been playing Eldar for sometime, and one thing I always consider with a strong melee unit is delivery. As much as I love our WS it still takes a turn to assault unless they jump out from stationary. That being said, Wraightblades seem to at least have a decent enough armor save to keep them around long enough to do their job. Even if they only get to do it once, your opponent has to dedicate fire to the unit and while that's going on you have an open window im something a little more relevant to your victory. In either case I wouldn't field wraithblades for any other task then to take out a tough unit or sandbox something. Just a quick assessment. I do like them with a spirit seer to mark a unit before combat...make sure you aren't losing out on those terrible ones!!! Haha. I would like to hear others opinions on this as well,, I've purchased a box and still haven't given them arms due to this dilemma.

It still takes a turn to Assault even if you do jump out from stationary. Unless a vehicle is an Assault Vehicle or Open-Topped you can't Assault on the same turn you disembark period.

Still pondering the options myself...but just to point something out. Your Spiritseer doesn't have to accept a challenge, refusing will keep him alive AND means you get to smack any challengers with the Wraiths still.

 Super Ready wrote:
Still pondering the options myself...but just to point something out. Your Spiritseer doesn't have to accept a challenge, refusing will keep him alive AND means you get to smack any challengers with the Wraiths still.

Yeah, good point.

I think the D-Scythes are just too expensive. 10 PPM is to much to pay for them. If they were 5 PPM, I would say there would be a choice, as is, they are just too expensive IMO. I honestly don't see the Eldar having a real issue with Infantry, thanks to the pseudo-rending on everything.

The Wraithcanons, however, can function as both Anti-tank, Anti-MC and can fire into a squad if need be. They are more multi-purpose, and are much easier to get into range. These are great, and I think at 32 PPM on their platform is a steal.

Wraithblades are a bit tougher. The Ghostblades provide that crucial +1 attack, so I'm leaning in favor of those. The 1A on the Ghostaxes really hurts them, but the 4++ sure is nice.

How essential do you people see Wave Serpent to be for the Wraithcannon guard? Can they footslog?

I've always foot slogged my WG and I don't see that changing any time soon. One thing I will do to make it more viable, since fortune support is less predictable, is to screen them with a wave serpent with either FD/DA inside so that, with shrouded, they have a 3+ armor & 3+ cover, plus something to dish out some pain before their slow selves arrive - sort of a wave attack strategy.

Ok. I've decided to assemble my first box as cannon wraiths. They seem most generally useful.

I am sad that you can't mix match weapons in wraith units. That would have actually made me buy 2 wraıthblade unıts right now. Now i have some debate to make with myself.

I agree, but maybe the line of thought is that "mix&match" really becomes "min/max". Wraithguard? 1-3 templates, rest cannons. Wraithblade? 1-3 axes, rest swords.

If you really want to use D-Scythes you could always attach Illic Nightspear and Infiltrate them right in range of a unit that you want to kill turn 1.

Just a thought

Iranna.

 Crimson wrote:
How essential do you people see Wave Serpent to be for the Wraithcannon guard? Can they footslog?

A Waveserpent with Holofields, moving flat out, pretty much guarantees you turn 2 to fire on your target. I'd say they are fairly essential.

 Iranna wrote:
If you really want to use D-Scythes you could always attach Illic Nightspear and Infiltrate them right in range of a unit that you want to kill turn 1.

No you can't.

Infiltrating character still doesn't allow unit without infiltration to infiltrate, because they cannot join them before the unit is already deployed.

 Crimson wrote:


No you can't.

As per RAW, yes - but it's strongly suggested in terms of RAI that Infiltrate can confer from ICs.

It's up to your group how you want to play it.

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:

As per RAW, yes - but it's strongly suggested in terms of RAI that Infiltrate can confer from ICs.

I don't believe it is intended. It would be absurd to allow any infiltrating character to bring any unit with them. The potential for insane abuse is endless. (The situation you mentioned being perfect example.)

 Crimson wrote:


I don't believe it is intended. It would be absurd to allow any infiltrating character to bring any unit with them. The potential for insane abuse is endless. (The situation you mentioned being perfect example.)

Space Marine FAQ:

Page 92 Kayvaan Shrike, See, But Remain Unseen.
Replace this entry with the following: “See, But Remain Unseen: Shrike (and any models in a unit chosen from Codex: Space Marines that he has joined before deployment) benefit from the Infiltrate special rule).

RAI, Shrike and any squad that he has joined should be able to infiltrate - but he still have no permission to join a squad before deployment.

What's the difference between Shrike conferring Infiltrate and Illic?

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:

Space Marine FAQ:

Page 92 Kayvaan Shrike, See, But Remain Unseen.
Replace this entry with the following: “See, But Remain Unseen: Shrike (and any models in a unit chosen from Codex: Space Marines that he has joined before deployment) benefit from the Infiltrate special rule).

RAI, Shrike and any squad that he has joined should be able to infiltrate - but he still have no permission to join a squad before deployment.

Shirke's rule is still horribly worded, but there is indeed an implied permission to join squads before deployement. However, that rule pertains only to him, other infiltrating characters have no such allowances. If infiltrating characters could always coin squads pre-deployement, why not just say that he has infiltrate and that's it?

What's the difference between Shrike conferring Infiltrate and Illic?

He has no special rule relating to joining squads. Also, he has his own special kind of infiltrate hew could not confer even to other infiltrating units.

Worth noting - the spiritseer's table of powers is mainly geared towards close combat, and is hampered by the unweildy rule of the axes.

Of all the variants of wraithguard, I'd say the swords get the most benefit from any single one of the spiritseer's powers.

I've been reading up on Wraith armies a bit and from what I understand (as a complete Eldar novice):

Cannon Guard are there to bust tanks and MC with the support of a Scatter Serpent with Holofield and Shuriken Cannon.

Scythe Guard are there to slaughter infantry in droves. Would it make sense to have them accompany a Scatter Serpent like above and follow the Cannon Guard around the board in support?

I personally don't rate Sword Guard or Glaive Guard. They need to get there and since Eldar lack this ability, would it make sense to go for something that is already there (Scorpions) or something that can get there (Harlequins)?

Wraithlords are pretty good now as they can shoot twice and are ok in cc.

The Knight I'm on the fence for. It is double tough, but doesn't shell out enough firepower for my liking. Best loadout I can see is Suncannon and one Scatter Laser, which will help against hordes which is this armies biggest weakness.

I would suggest some Aspect support. Fire Dragons have more numbers and similar weapons, so they are in. Scorpions are great and Harlies are fantastic, especially when they are in front of footslogging Wraiths. Do I shoot the Harlies or the Guard? Shoot the Guard and you get minced by the Harlies. Risk shooting the Harlies and roll badly and you've wasted a shooting phase.
Last good Aspects are Hawks, which provide anti horde and can get tanks, Spiders that are very fast and great against light vehicles can provide good support. Finally... my personal favourites, Dark Reapers. They are expensive, but can provide a great amount of long range utility.
Finally... the vehicles. Serpents are near mandatory in a list with very short range infantry. Falcons should only be taken with Dragons and the Fire Prism is a fantastic all rounder. War walkers are also good and with the Scatter Laser as one weapon, you can tailor a squadron for each target. EML FTW here.

One other thing... how will the Wraithseer work now?

What strikes me the most about the scythes actually makes them worth the extra 10 points. This puts them only marginally above tactical Terminators in cost, for *fairly* comparable survivability, but you get a big fat "don't you DARE charge me" banner waving in your opponent's face, rivalled only perhaps by Burna Boyz. Even then, the Orks' version isn't AP2...

If you want WG just stick with the cannons. Harlies are superior in CC by far and regular WG can handle CC if absolutely necessary.