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I have the treads above an agree that the goals are too far apart you could gain more by showing what unlocks at what level. I know I went in big hoping to get the female general but now doing the rough math it might not happen. I believe they could make more by showing us more not waiting till they lose steam the it could be to late.

I dont think theyll get 1 mil out of this, iirc All quiet hit something like 200k in the first day and finished at 300k (and they had much better communications and stretch goals than RH does). They also didnt have the ill will of a segment of their backers. The kickstarters that do best are the ones that make you an offer you cant refuse (lots of freebies, etc), and have a "sweet spot" in the range of $150-250 where your money gets you a ridiculous amount of goodies. As it stands right now there is no "sweet spot" for this kickstarter, especially given that the lower tiers through to Lieutenant level actually cost more money than the product youre getting.

All Quiet hit 83,000 on the first day... Everyone and his wife has underestimated the demand for female soldiers... once these factions expand with bikes etc, and add-ons will come...

Saxon wrote:
All Quiet hit 83,000 on the first day... Everyone and his wife has underestimated the demand for female soldiers... once these factions expand with bikes etc, and add-ons will come...

Don't disagree with the demand, but it's important to realize that almost all of the current pledging is speculative early bird pledging. For me, the value isn't there yet, and it seems similar for a lot. I'll stick around because there's no loss in doing so and the miniatures do interest me, but if the campaign is badly run, it could definitely stall out.

Meh, I have no problem pulling my pledge when the end gets closer. I think Buzzsaw hit it on the head and I do think this has the potential to deflate based on the way it's currently being handled. They still haven't updated the first page for the goal hit earlier....

As bad as "Brian Blessed!" is in the comments section, yet again, the 'official' RH reps are really not doing anyone any favors with the tone and tenor in some of their posts.

As a representatives of RH, they really need to stay positive, ignore the criticism if they can't handle it, and really should not respond to it in a negative fashion.

This is especially true while RH themselves remain strangely absent and silent.

Maybe they're trying to figure out how to best handle this all?

My main concern with the stretch goals is that they're doing it to try and increase pledges, but I think they may be spread out a bit too far for that to work. If you need 20k to go between stretch goals, and the goal costs $10 to add-on, you're looking at 2,000 people wanting that model in order to progress to the next goal. That's a pretty popular model. Now, in reality, it's more complicated than that because you'll have some new pledges coming in which will boost the total, and you'll have some people who want the model but will just pay for it with part of their pledge package (or by not getting something else.)

I imagine the thing to do is to pretty much ignore the KS for a week (hey, it's working for RH) and then see what's happened. Maybe wait until the 15th.

Hey, that's my line!

chaos0xomega wrote:
I dont think theyll get 1 mil out of this, iirc All quiet hit something like 200k in the first day and finished at 300k (and they had much better communications and stretch goals than RH does). They also didnt have the ill will of a segment of their backers. The kickstarters that do best are the ones that make you an offer you cant refuse (lots of freebies, etc), and have a "sweet spot" in the range of $150-250 where your money gets you a ridiculous amount of goodies. As it stands right now there is no "sweet spot" for this kickstarter, especially given that the lower tiers through to Lieutenant level actually cost more money than the product youre getting.

While there are some things that are worth complaining about in this KS the lower pledge levels costing more then what you get is not one of them. Here's a quick break down of the difference in what you would getting the basic Lieutenant pledge level. and what you'd have to pay retail.
LT Box
Heroines 3 x $10 =$30
Troops 4 x $15 = $60
Support 4x $15 = $60
Exclusive
Model = $15

Total =$165

MRRP
Heroines 3 x $16.50 = $49
Troops 4 x $20 = $80
Support 4 x $21.50 = $86
Exclusive
Model = 18
Total =$233

Total Savings on the Lieutenant Box over MRRP is = $68 dollars.

So unless you think $233 dollars is less then $165 dollars it's quite clear that your getting savings.

Tresson wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I dont think theyll get 1 mil out of this, iirc All quiet hit something like 200k in the first day and finished at 300k (and they had much better communications and stretch goals than RH does). They also didnt have the ill will of a segment of their backers. The kickstarters that do best are the ones that make you an offer you cant refuse (lots of freebies, etc), and have a "sweet spot" in the range of $150-250 where your money gets you a ridiculous amount of goodies. As it stands right now there is no "sweet spot" for this kickstarter, especially given that the lower tiers through to Lieutenant level actually cost more money than the product youre getting.

While there are some things that are worth complaining about in this KS the lower pledge levels costing more then what you get is not one of them. Here's a quick break down of the difference in what you would getting the basic Lieutenant pledge level. and what you'd have to pay retail.
LT Box
Heroines 3 x $10 =$30
Troops 4 x $15 = $60
Support 4x $15 = $60
Exclusive
Model = $15

Total =$165

MRRP
Heroines 3 x $16.50 = $49
Troops 4 x $20 = $80
Support 4 x $21.50 = $86
Exclusive
Model = 18
Total =$233

Total Savings on the Lieutenant Box over MRRP is = $68 dollars.

So unless you think $233 dollars is less then $165 dollars it's quite clear that your getting savings.

They make you pay shipping though, so your savings take another $25 hit (depending on location)....I miss the Deadzone KS....

They have awakened!

Creator Loud'n Raging 16 minutes ago

We haven't had the time to go though all the comments yet, but from what we've been reading, some of you seem to be concerned about our plans for this Kickstarter.

First of all, as you can imagine, this amazing start has been a surprise for us. It was so emotion nay intense to see the numbers rise at this speed that yes, we were a bit dumbstruck for most of the day. However, rest assured that everything is still very much in control. We planned this project for an entire year, and for the last 6 months, we've done absolutely nothing else other than working on it.

However, as much as we tried to anticipate everything, some of your interests and reactions have not necessarily been where we'd have thought they'd be. A very specific example of that is the fact that many of you asked for more pledge levels exclusively designed for Heroines. The truth is that we were concerned that most of you would rather have units than Heroines. This sort of thing is really not a problem and easy to solve, and we are currently working on several on these issues.

Also, and this is very important, we were obviously mistaken in following Kickstarter recommendation that we NOT post too many updates, and particularly NOT post updates every time we unlocked a stretch goal, so as not the spam the backers. From the many comments we see here, we should have followed our gut feeling and posted many more updates. This short answer is just to tell you that we are back and ready to hear your questions, comments and concerns.

Creator Loud'n Raging 15 minutes ago

Oops, forgot the first 2 lines of the post:
Hello everyone! Back on deck!
Sorry for being late and hence the radio silence, which lasted longer than expected. We had to run to the doctor for a medical emergency and this delayed us for a while :-(

Creator Loud'n Raging 4 minutes ago

@HK 47
I agree with the Inner Geek.
And yet, to help you plan for a whole army, we thought we'd show the silhouettes of most of our stretch goals. True, you don't know WHEN they'll be released, but at least, you already know a lo about what's coming.

Creator Loud'n Raging 2 minutes ago

@I HAVE BEEN BLESSED
The medical emergency was certainly a bit of that, but thankfully, nothing as serious!

Allow me to add a few other statements;

@HK47: Well, there are more heroes than troops to be unlocked, so we will be sprinkling troops and supports amidst the Heroines stretch goals.

@Scientific Adventurer: Thanks, we have indeed planned to add a link the artwork of each unlocked mini in the updates.

@Kevin Behrendt "Don't hesitate spamming us with "Unlock" and "That's next" all in the Update area instead of the Front page, where no one get's informed and where it needs viral activity to know that something happened." That's how we'll handle things from now on. Indeed, that was our original plan, but we refrained from doing it because of the KS recommendations....

and

We haven't had the time to go though all the comments yet, but from what we've been reading, some of you seem to be concerned about our plans for this Kickstarter.

First of all, as you can imagine, this amazing start has been a surprise for us. It was so emotion nay intense to see the numbers rise at this speed that yes, we were a bit dumbstruck for most of the day. However, rest assured that everything is still very much in control. We planned this project for an entire year, and for the last 6 months, we've done absolutely nothing else other than working on it.

However, as much as we tried to anticipate everything, some of your interests and reactions have not necessarily been where we'd have thought they'd be. A very specific example of that is the fact that many of you asked for more pledge levels exclusively designed for Heroines. The truth is that we were concerned that most of you would rather have units than Heroines. This sort of thing is really not a problem and easy to solve, and we are currently working on several on these issues.

Also, and this is very important, we were obviously mistaken in following Kickstarter recommendation that we NOT post too many updates, and particularly NOT post updates every time we unlocked a stretch goal, so as not the spam the backers. From the many comments we see here, we should have followed our gut feeling and posted many more updates. This short answer is just to tell you that we are back and ready to hear your questions, comments and concerns.


naughty KS saying we the public don't want updates! (I suspect they don't want their servers wasting energy/money sending them!

Regarding the stretch goals:

I'm assuming you are referring to the Stretch Goal Intervals?
We started with a low funding point because we know that when a Kickstarter is funded quickly, it really helps to give the project more visibility. That's the reason why we had planned we had planned several small stretch goal right after that, so that you guys would be able to rapidly see new unlocked minis to get a better feel of how, each army would look and how you would spend your pledge.
At this point in time, we've come back to more normal stretch goal intervals. the only thing that took us by surprise was that we did not think you would unlock those small stretch goals so quickly.

Having to choose between this KS and the Wargods KS on where to throw my money. RH had four months of prep for this, that they still only have 3D sculpts to show and nothing physical doesn't sit well with me. They should have had the Sky Captain modeled and painted by this point.

Going to go with Wargods because Fitz has done a better job of laying everything out and has actual sculpts to show. I know whats coming and also what extras I can look forward to. How a KS is run during the campaign would indicate how things would be run afterwards. Don't want to contribute money and then be in the dark. It is only day two of the campaign, but with a four month delay, this should have had far more shine and polish than is currently does. It does not fill me with confidence.

*edit* see RH is starting to post comments, but still doesn't sit well with me.

Creator Loud'n Raging 10 minutes ago

@Abe Lincoln with a ShotgunAxe
I'm assuming you are referring to the Stretch Goal Intervals?
We started with a low funding point because we know that when a Kickstarter is funded quickly, it really helps to give the project more visibility. That's the reason why we had planned we had planned several small stretch goal right after that, so that you guys would be able to rapidly see new unlocked minis to get a better feel of how, each army would look and how you would spend your pledge.
At this point in time, we've come back to more normal stretch goal intervals. the only thing that took us by surprise was that we did not think you would unlock those small stretch goals so quickly.
Does that answer your question?

I suppose it does.

Personally, I don't get how any miniature company can, at this point, be this unprepared for a KS and how to 'best' manage one.

There are MULTIPLE examples that exist as ways to properly engage your customers and to keep them informed, as well as keeping the project up to date.

At this point, for me the "we didn't expect..." excuse is a BS throwaway line that really means, "We're really bad at planning."

 Alpharius wrote:
At this point in time, we've come back to more normal stretch goal intervals. the only thing that took us by surprise was that we did not think you would unlock those small stretch goals so quickly.
Does that answer your question?

In English: "We're very poor at planning."

 cincydooley wrote:
Personally, I don't get how any miniature company can, at this point, be this unprepared for a KS and how to 'best' manage one.

There are MULTIPLE examples that exist as ways to properly engage your customers and to keep them informed, as well as keeping the project up to date.

At this point, for me the "we didn't expect..." excuse is a BS throwaway line that really means, "We're really bad at planning."

And yet:

First of all, as you can imagine, this amazing start has been a surprise for us. It was so emotion nay intense to see the numbers rise at this speed that yes, we were a bit dumbstruck for most of the day. However, rest assured that everything is still very much in control. We planned this project for an entire year, and for the last 6 months, we've done absolutely nothing else other than working on it.

They really just need to start sending out actual content filled updates.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Sisters players are like "Woohoo!".

There are a few that I am looking at, mainly the heavy teams and strategist. Really excited for the bikes and Mechs when they finally show up, purely for fun painting

 Minx wrote:
Regarding the stretch goals:

I'm assuming you are referring to the Stretch Goal Intervals?
We started with a low funding point because we know that when a Kickstarter is funded quickly, it really helps to give the project more visibility. That's the reason why we had planned we had planned several small stretch goal right after that, so that you guys would be able to rapidly see new unlocked minis to get a better feel of how, each army would look and how you would spend your pledge.
At this point in time, we've come back to more normal stretch goal intervals. the only thing that took us by surprise was that we did not think you would unlock those small stretch goals so quickly.

With all due respect to RH, this answer is preposterous. The clear implication there is that they intended to always have $20-35,000 stretch goals to unlock individual models, an astonishingly inflated number. That is not a statement without context: thanks to innumerable other campaigns we have a very good idea how much it costs to tool molds for metal models (for a very nearly analogous campaign, one will note that Bombshell Miniatures was able to sculpt and tool each individual miniature for about $5k throughout their campaign).

To recopy my question to them in the comments;

@Loud'n Raging;
"@Don E "@Buzzsaw2 good luck getting your questions answered it seems they do a great job evading a response to "Freebies and Stretch Goals"
Did we not just answer the question about the Stretch Goals?"

With due respect, I don't believe that you did. From previous kickstarter campaigns we have a fairly good idea of how much it costs to sculpt and tool a single metal model (Bombshell Miniatures, for example, had $5k stretch goals from beginning to end). It costs approximately what they originally were listed at, $4-5k.

Now a single model costs $35,000 to be made available?

Note that this is not analogous to previous campaigns such as Reaper's Bones, where stretch goals had to become progressively farther apart because each stretch goal achieved meant another miniature was owed to the backers.

By contrast, the $35,000 stretch between Mimi the Radio ($225,000) and Ludmilla Magdanova ($260,000) simply allows a backer to add her... for $10.

Maybe we're getting plastics made in golden injection molds? That could justify the sudden increase in dosh levels..

Have to admit, I wasn't expecting this one:

Creator Loud'n Raging less than a minute ago

@Jeff @Buzzsaw @Abe @Don E and perhaps others we may have missed…
A project like this does not work on a cost per miniature tooling. Beyond tooling, it's 3 full-time staff plus several full-time freelancers, and, at Raging Heroes, hours, days, and months spent on designing and sculpting. We have spread the entire project costs over the whole Kickstarter. Also, as we stated in the video, we are developing more than miniatures here, and the extra funding, if we get it, will be used for that.
We've sought to develop 3 full armies with a lot of production value, and have discounted the prices from 20 to 40% right off the bat, before any extra deals such as extra minis in higher pledge levels, freebies, and free upgrades.
All of our customers and people who work with us know that we are transparent and honest about our practices. If however we've failed to convince you, and you feel cheated in some way, then, as much as we hate to say it, perhaps we're not the right fit for you.

With all due respect to RH, this answer is preposterous. The clear implication there is that they intended to always have $20-35,000 stretch goals to unlock individual models, an astonishingly inflated number. That is not a statement without context: thanks to innumerable other campaigns we have a very good idea how much it costs to tool molds for metal models (for a very nearly analogous campaign, one will note that Bombshell Miniatures was able to sculpt and tool each individual miniature for about $5k throughout their campaign).

To recopy my question to them in the comments;

@Loud'n Raging;
"@Don E "@Buzzsaw2 good luck getting your questions answered it seems they do a great job evading a response to "Freebies and Stretch Goals"
Did we not just answer the question about the Stretch Goals?"

With due respect, I don't believe that you did. From previous kickstarter campaigns we have a fairly good idea of how much it costs to sculpt and tool a single metal model (Bombshell Miniatures, for example, had $5k stretch goals from beginning to end). It costs approximately what they originally were listed at, $4-5k.

Now a single model costs $35,000 to be made available?

Note that this is not analogous to previous campaigns such as Reaper's Bones, where stretch goals had to become progressively farther apart because each stretch goal achieved meant another miniature was owed to the backers.

By contrast, the $35,000 stretch between Mimi the Radio ($225,000) and Ludmilla Magdanova ($260,000) simply allows a backer to add her... for $10.

I don't doubt that they sunk at least $50,000 in for the initial sculpts (possibly more). The fact that they had the 3d renders done for what was the $200,000 stretch means that a lot of money was spent up front, so some of the early stretches likely had no relation to the price. At this point though, I'd be shocked if they don't have more than everything unlocked already covered (including the cost to produce and send out the product to all backers), so there should definitely be more of a relationship between the stretches and the cost to produce.

Creator Loud'n Raging less than a minute ago

@Jeff @Buzzsaw @Abe @Don E and perhaps others we may have missed…
A project like this does not work on a cost per miniature tooling. Beyond tooling, it's 3 full-time staff plus several full-time freelancers, and, at Raging Heroes, hours, days, and months spent on designing and sculpting. We have spread the entire project costs over the whole Kickstarter. Also, as we stated in the video, we are developing more than miniatures here, and the extra funding, if we get it, will be used for that.
We've sought to develop 3 full armies with a lot of production value, and have discounted the prices from 20 to 40% right off the bat, before any extra deals such as extra minis in higher pledge levels, freebies, and free upgrades.
All of our customers and people who work with us know that we are transparent and honest about our practices. If however we've failed to convince you, and you feel cheated in some way, then, as much as we hate to say it, perhaps we're not the right fit for you.

They already did?

It was a variation of the "If you don't like it, you don't have to back it" thing, which is an oddly aggressive stance to take...

Must of missed that! That's quite a bad attitude to take, it could actually drive people away!

I'm starting to feel like Kickstarter has become this bloated, hype-driven, whiny-pledger-infested mechanism for companies to push a bunch of products in one big go, instead of traditionally releasing them as the funds are available, and I think it hurts their public image when the project grows out of proportion to what they're currently capable of handling, or what they initially set out to do in the KS. Because of these hugely successful campaigns like Reaper, Mantic, Zombicide, Sedition Wars, and Kingdom of Death, KS backers have grown accustomed to "freebies" and "add more stuff to my pledge."

I feel like I'm in the minority with this KS in that I'm just excited to see it finally get here, and if I can get my hands on some nice models at a good price, AND help RH fund future endeavors, then that's all I'm looking for. Extra stuff on top of that is icing on the cake, but I'm not expecting it, and I would dare not complain that RH is NOT giving me free stuff just 2 days into the campaign.

Too many people are complaining about one thing or another because they've chosen to pledge for X, but really they wanted X+Y and three free Z's all thrown in. The entitlement that surrounds some of these KS's is unbelievable. I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, but it just seems that there's more talk about the lack of stuff than talk about the actual stuff we have...

That said, I'd like to see them consider doing the troops as plastic or semi-plastic/resin kits, as the DreamForge KS kits are so well designed that I think RH could really pin down their own little corner of the market with some quality sculpts in plastic at a cost-effective price point. I am also anxious to see the bikes and mechs for all three factions. I may have to do an alternate-universe WWI styled skirmish game with these models, or some gritty post-apoc stuff.

~iPaint

edit: grammar

 Alpharius wrote:

Creator Loud'n Raging less than a minute ago

@Jeff @Buzzsaw @Abe @Don E and perhaps others we may have missed…
A project like this does not work on a cost per miniature tooling. Beyond tooling, it's 3 full-time staff plus several full-time freelancers, and, at Raging Heroes, hours, days, and months spent on designing and sculpting. We have spread the entire project costs over the whole Kickstarter. Also, as we stated in the video, we are developing more than miniatures here, and the extra funding, if we get it, will be used for that.
We've sought to develop 3 full armies with a lot of production value, and have discounted the prices from 20 to 40% right off the bat, before any extra deals such as extra minis in higher pledge levels, freebies, and free upgrades.
All of our customers and people who work with us know that we are transparent and honest about our practices. If however we've failed to convince you, and you feel cheated in some way, then, as much as we hate to say it, perhaps we're not the right fit for you.

They already did?

It was a variation of the "If you don't like it, you don't have to back it" thing, which is an oddly aggressive stance to take...

Doesn't come over as aggressive to me if I go to an Indian restaurant and start hollering how I don't like Indian food so you better cook me some Chinese I would expect to told that I might want to look elsewhere rather than expecting them to start cooking Chinese food. If they happen to make a change that you like we'll that's just an added bonus.

overtyrant wrote:
Must of missed that! That's quite a bad attitude to take, it could actually drive people away!

If the could drive 3 or 4 of the most vocal 'I want your to run your KS THIS way, and will say so every 2 minutes' I'd be very, very happy