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Congrats on the baby, incidentally.

Good point on the webinar. At that price, though, I hope a dvd copy of the experience would be a nice gesture to relieve that kind of linguistic barrier.

Breotan: You're right in saying that it was never a given about the campaign that backers get their stuff first. I think it comes from an old school assumption that you please your backers as soon as possible. As an unfit analogy, take my fiancee and I's position. We contracted a loan with someone to buy an existing business. We damn well make sure that money-lender sees his payment first day of the month, even if we have to eat KD for a week.

As you aptly pointed out, they made zero promises. And we have zero protection. But it would be nice of them.

 Breotan wrote:
Personally, I don't care if I get my product earlier or later than the stores, as long as the guys at RH are honest and up front about everything and there isn't too long of a lag between the two.

That is the part I care about. I may get grumpy, but if they are up front? I won't be angry. Grumpy can be sated by going "That is an amazing mini! I can't wait to get my greedy mitts on it!" Whereas, if I am angry, I would probably demand a refund, because really, if it turns out to be that they are selling to retailers and I am second fiddle to that, and there was no up front "Hey, we are letting these dropship stores sell product early, because of their willingness to be awesome!" statement, then I as a person would not only feel lied too, but also stolen from. The emotional response may be my own opinion, but I think communication on this program, to us, as backers, is crucial so we can either a.) know the whole story, b.) stick our heads in the sands like ostriches, and hope everything turns out okay, or c.) take our money and wait for retail.

And yeah, all we are doing is currently assuming, since RH hasn't been the most open about some of their methodologies so far. They have been communicating far more, up until the back sprain, but these somewhat downturn, and the "get backers so we can comment!" ideology, is going to hurt them, in the long run.

Anyone know if the game they're making for these models is going to be a one shot, or few shot styled board game or a full blown minis game that will be well supported for many years to come?

I'm assuming it's going to be a full blown minis game, since a one shot would likely be a boxed deal that we would have seen already.

I too, assume a minis game. One I would enthusiastically play, probably without regard for rules quality!

I hope minis game. I don't like putting money into oneshot things. Part of the joy of minis games is that they tend to last a long time, always getting new content and models.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Congrats on the baby, incidentally.

Thanks!

Isoulle wrote:
I hope minis game. I don't like putting money into oneshot things. Part of the joy of minis games is that they tend to last a long time, always getting new content and models.

That's why I dig minis games too, although if I'm honest I pledged into Raging Heroes before I even knew a game was in the works. I just like the minis that much! (And intend to use them in 40k, of course. )

Full blown minis game. Looks like a lot of human on human fighting, but once the Dark Elves get released we can all tag team the pointy eared freaks who then there better'n us!

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Full blown minis game. Looks like a lot of human on human fighting, but once the Dark Elves get released we can all tag team the pointy eared freaks who then there better'n us!

I'm pretty sure the Dark Elves are planned to be a fantasy army. It might be a little unfair to make them fight people with lasers and whatnot!

All their other planned armies (TGG, the SoB wanna bes) are Sci Fi and they've said the DE will be for the RH game. So I'm just extrapolating they're another faction.

Maybe they'll be a high magic faction? Like a more serious version of the Spelljammer concept? Shoot, as a transport vehicle, how freaking awesome would a Smalljammer be?

Why can't it be a double function army, same with the SoB wannabes? Would make better sense since releasing a single faction as a kickstarter, would be a pain to keep people interested in enough to get very far.

If you only have say Grim Dark Space Nuns, you would get a very distinct crowd, and it doesn't scream multiple faction in it, enough to have a fully fleshed road map. Whereas, Battle Nuns, being generic, could allow them to build both a fantasy and space line, that both groups could latch onto, and bleed our wallets dry. Or, better yet... have both at the same time, and both be dual functioning. So much money being thrown at them, they would need many nets to try and catch it all.

It's really hard to make dual function sci fi/fantasy though.

I'm sure you could USE them for whatever kind of game you want, somewheresomehow, but I think that the Raging Heroes specific game is going to be scifi, at this point. (Although I wouldn't rule out a fantasy game at a later date.)

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
All their other planned armies (TGG, the SoB wanna bes) are Sci Fi and they've said the DE will be for the RH game. So I'm just extrapolating they're another faction.

Look at the concept art they released here though: http://www.ragingheroes.com/pages/kickstarter-news

Horses and harpies. Though maybe (like the current KS) the DE KS will wind up being multiple armies, and it will be a 2-in-1 KS for sci-fi and fantasy DE armies? *shrug*

So can we add to the list clarity on product distribution, by this I mean do we as backers receive ours before retailers.
I do feel slightly cheated by this as in a sense we are the money backers to get the project into production, on that front I feel it is only fair to reward those who made this a reality.
If you think about it there is no reason for us to take the financial risk if they are going to retailers first, although this has not been stated I am sure there are many backers feeling the same.

Also as to the update issues when I backed the DreamForge Kickstarter I was only after the Mortis, however after each update I ended up getting at least one of everything (except the 15mm models).
So in a sense going quite does not really inspire backers IMHO.

If I understand this right, dirty dog, you're asking if the backers who are not using the Drop Ship program get their shipments before or after the models become available for retail?

The answer, as I understand it, is no. If you are signed up for the Drop Ship program, then you will get them as they become available. Otherwise, your order doesn't ship until ALL the minis are ready. I think they talked about this earlier.

If I've deciphered what you're saying correctly in the latter part of your post, you're then saying that if the answer is as I believe it to be, then you feel cheated, correct? In which case, you should take a couple of things into consideration. The first is that (assuming you pledged at lieutenant level or above) you are getting free minis, including one that is exclusive to the Kickstarter. You are also receiving those minis that you are paying for at a discount that those who wait for retail will not enjoy. In addition, the need for Raging Heroes to ship your order all at once (to keep shipping costs reasonable) shouldn't exclude them from beginning to sell the minis that they've already begun to produce, should it?

If that doesn't make you feel better, then you might want to look into the Drop Ship Program. If you can get a game store that is local to you sign up for the Drop Ship Program, then you won't have to wait at all!

Hope that helps.

 Jimsolo wrote:
If I understand this right, dirty dog, you're asking if the backers who are not using the Drop Ship program get their shipments before or after the models become available for retail?

The answer, as I understand it, is no. If you are signed up for the Drop Ship program, then you will get them as they become available. Otherwise, your order doesn't ship until ALL the minis are ready. I think they talked about this earlier.

If I've deciphered what you're saying correctly in the latter part of your post, you're then saying that if the answer is as I believe it to be, then you feel cheated, correct? In which case, you should take a couple of things into consideration. The first is that (assuming you pledged at lieutenant level or above) you are getting free minis, including one that is exclusive to the Kickstarter. You are also receiving those minis that you are paying for at a discount that those who wait for retail will not enjoy. In addition, the need for Raging Heroes to ship your order all at once (to keep shipping costs reasonable) shouldn't exclude them from beginning to sell the minis that they've already begun to produce, should it?

If that doesn't make you feel better, then you might want to look into the Drop Ship Program. If you can get a game store that is local to you sign up for the Drop Ship Program, then you won't have to wait at all!

Hope that helps.

Thanks for clearing that up yes I see your point however there are only 3 drop points for the UK and they are all rather centralised (which is to far from me to get to) so that option aint going to happen.

What I was wondering is could they not offer the same system DreamForge did and release in waves, at least that way we would be getting something at intervals rather than waiting nearly a year.

This could be set up as an option bases you either have it sent out in waves or a complete order when finished, I understand that there would be a shipping charge for this and a need to break it down to group releases but surly this would be a better option.

I know there would still be some delay for backers as to the retailers but at least you would be getting some stuff at intervals rather than waiting, also as I have found with most kickstarters there are all ways delays so the wait could be even longer.

 lone dirty dog wrote:

What I was wondering is could they not offer the same system DreamForge did and release in waves, at least that way we would be getting something at intervals rather than waiting nearly a year.
This could be set up as an option bases you either have it sent out in waves or a complete order when finished, I understand that there would be a shipping charge for this and a need to break it down to group releases but surly this would be a better option.
I know there would still be some delay for backers as to the retailers but at least you would be getting some stuff at intervals rather than waiting, also as I have found with most kickstarters there are all ways delays so the wait could be even longer.

WolfStark posted the following:

Second, it will be possible, for those who do not wish to wait, to choose to receive their shipment in several waves. There will be additional shipping costs for that, but if it's something you want, we'll make sure to make that option available to you, probably at Survey time, possibly before.

Well, in that case I am happy now so thanks guys for the help and info, I joined late so I missed a lot of this and I just want some cool looking minis.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Otherwise, your order doesn't ship until ALL the minis are ready.

Question for the Heralds, is the 2014 shipping date listed in the KS the Wave 1 shipping or is that the expected release date of the full run to backers?

https://www.facebook.com/questions/10151646608846168/

Survey for a new name for Kotzen, because that means to vomit in german.

@Vhalan
Sorry I am confused today, I send the answer on the KS page, instead of here. But here the official answer for you:
"The whole range of release. First wave will be in early fall."

2014 is the final ship date. Pre-delays. Wave 1 is actually rumoured to be ready to ship as early as September.

They really need to clarify which models are to be available in which waves/when, and also what the additional shipping costs will be. It's all a bit vague right now (like the hard plastic talk).

 WolfStark wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/questions/10151646608846168/
Survey for a new name for Kotzen, because that means to vomit in german.

Can I vote for Leutnant R. Brechen with his famous Kübelwagen?

I prefer Hauptmann Rülpsen with his infamous Bierwagen...

 Kroothawk wrote:

 WolfStark wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/questions/10151646608846168/
Survey for a new name for Kotzen, because that means to vomit in german.

Can I vote for Leutnant R. Brechen with his famous Kübelwagen?

Nice one.

The waves you are referring to Jim, are in reference to the dropship program. Not an additional wave shipment program, as far as we know, as they have yet to qualify if the waves were meant seperate from the Drop Ship or not.

Also, I am PAYING for that exclusive figure, so please, try again about getting something "exclusive" from this KS besides having to automatically pay for it. Especially since it comes in Painter box and above. The freebies are purchaseable at retail as well. Yes, we get them free, and we can get "significant discounts," on very select model sets, but time is money friend.

And Jim, you are obviously not understanding what I am saying. If they release a single faction, for a single game type (Dark Elves, for Fantasy OR Sc Fi,) they won't have enough singular individual models to appeal beyond a small crowd. Remember, we have 3 factions, each one with their own feel, that appeals as stand ins for differing game systems. A singular Dark Elf or Space Nuns group, would not be big enough to generate the same amount of hooplah.

To also note, we are almost at the halfway mark, with 17 days left, and 31/32 unlocks left to get. I know we will get there, but think about the fact we have a bunch of people who threw down big, to get everything, and some people waiting on the fences to see that all are unlocked to get an entire faction. When you only have ONE faction, and one selection, you reduce your coverage, and then you have to throw up another kickstarter for the battle nuns, which means that by the time you have the third kickstarter, people are either really energized for your work, or drained from it.

Combining and expanding allows for a singularly powerful campaign, that will appeal to the broadest audience, and allow you to begin tooling and paying for the work of both factions, faster, and bring them to an eager market, not currently drained by two of your own kickstarters already.

In essence, it prevents KS burn out, and draws in a bigger audience.

Editted, because I am a stickler on my own posts, and when I see an overlooked is/was/were conflict, I must edit it!

I certainly hope they wouldn't do another kickstarter before having delivered on this one, at any rate... right?

somewheresomehow wrote:
The waves you are referring to Jim, are in reference to the dropship program. Not an additional wave shipment program, as far as we know, as they have yet to qualify if the waves were meant seperate from the Drop Ship or not.

The last update mentions a possible separate (paid) option to send the miniatures in several shipments

LnR in Update #18 wrote:Second, it will be possible, for those who do not wish to wait, to choose to receive their shipment in several waves. There will be additional shipping costs for that, but if it's something you want, we'll make sure to make that option available to you, probably at Survey time, possibly before.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I certainly hope they wouldn't do another kickstarter before having delivered on this one, at any rate... right?

They don't seem to have the necessary man power to do anything but this kickstarter for the foreseeable future. I reckon there might be some overlap at the tail end of the delivery though.